In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to MikeTS)
>
> It would only be a flash if, were he not to have had a rope on at the time, he wouldn't have ended up in a crumpled heap at the bottom.
>
> It would only be an onsight if he'd flashed it without prior knowledge not gained himself on the route without weighting the gear.
>
John i would imagine you know your stuff but they are the most confusing definitions i've ever heard.
How about we keep it simple....flash = beta, onsight = no beta, both = clean and ground up.
Anyway mad props to the uber-wad Ueli.