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![[Steve McClure - Mecca broken - 320, 5 kb]](http://img.ukclimbing.com/t/117440.jpg "[Steve McClure - Mecca broken - 320, 5 kb]")
Peak District sport climbing cognoscenti are holding their breath at the moment as Mecca F8b+, one of Raven Tor's most famous routes, enters its second week on the critical list.
Twenty years after Martin Atkinson's first ascent, the starting block of his test-piece route is in grave danger of falling to bits...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=47801
In reply to UKC News:
tis only a bit of rock .... all rock erodes and decays .. quicker if you try to glue it together glue reacts with the rock .. and don't forget freeze thaw process...
Its a shame but it will change and be re climbed in days months to come ...
Its sunny outside here the rock of Rhinogs is drying ... plenty of choice of rock to climb ..
tis only a bit of rock .... all rock erodes and decays .. quicker if you try to glue it together glue reacts with the rock .. and don't forget freeze thaw process...
Its a shame but it will change and be re climbed in days months to come ...
Its sunny outside here the rock of Rhinogs is drying ... plenty of choice of rock to climb ..
In reply to Ian McNeill:
I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
To these people, the suggestion they should find solace on some heathery trad plod in the Rhinogs is like comforting a jilted lover with the tired 'fish in the sea' line.
I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
To these people, the suggestion they should find solace on some heathery trad plod in the Rhinogs is like comforting a jilted lover with the tired 'fish in the sea' line.
In reply to Ian McNeill: whell said ian
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
I like your post - I read this and also thought, though, that there's something quite mystical about a climb that was only there for a while, that's passed into history, a 'did-you-or-didn't-you-do-it?'
It must be, as you say, truly gutting for those focussing on it though though.
I like your post - I read this and also thought, though, that there's something quite mystical about a climb that was only there for a while, that's passed into history, a 'did-you-or-didn't-you-do-it?'
It must be, as you say, truly gutting for those focussing on it though though.
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Fortunately most people have insurance to cover the loss (see below).
Alternative and all together better looking fish in the sea.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=357715
> (In reply to Ian McNeill)
>
> I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
>
> I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
Fortunately most people have insurance to cover the loss (see below).
>
> To these people, the suggestion they should find solace on some heathery trad plod in the Rhinogs is like comforting a jilted lover with the tired 'fish in the sea' line.
> To these people, the suggestion they should find solace on some heathery trad plod in the Rhinogs is like comforting a jilted lover with the tired 'fish in the sea' line.
Alternative and all together better looking fish in the sea.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=357715
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Yeah and imagine how someone who's got to the last move of the extension three times would feel?!
Well said Stu. Let's hope it can be fixed properly.
Yeah and imagine how someone who's got to the last move of the extension three times would feel?!
Well said Stu. Let's hope it can be fixed properly.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Keith had 3 extra calories last week and the extra weight was too much for the poor holds?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I have only talked to some of the 'repair commitee' but latest plan seems to be to take it all off carefully, put in threaded steel rods and then glue it all back onto the rods to give a strong and invisible(ish) repair.
There has been serious talk of (and offers to pay for!) a scaffolding tower to get access to the damage because the blocks in question are probably too heavy to manhandle into place from a rope.
Iain
I have only talked to some of the 'repair commitee' but latest plan seems to be to take it all off carefully, put in threaded steel rods and then glue it all back onto the rods to give a strong and invisible(ish) repair.
There has been serious talk of (and offers to pay for!) a scaffolding tower to get access to the damage because the blocks in question are probably too heavy to manhandle into place from a rope.
Iain
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: More to the point, what solutions are being considered?
From what I gather think of playing a game of jenga and then reversing it on a bigger scale - the overall objective being to reinstate the block and preserving the moves as before.
From what I gather think of playing a game of jenga and then reversing it on a bigger scale - the overall objective being to reinstate the block and preserving the moves as before.
In reply to CragX Shop:
Blimey Shirley some one must have a tower they can borrow . make sure its scaff tagged daily ... acro props to hold the rock place ...
To GA's about weight ... I had better stay clear Id pull it down just by holding on.. ... alas I wont be visiting the crag too soon ..
I will wait till its been tested and hold safety inspection certificates have been signed off.
Good luck with it anyhow and if you have invested so much time in trying/ working the line youtube.com/watch?v=RT-wAnEZ85g&
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
>
> There has been serious talk of (and offers to pay for!) a scaffolding tower to get access to the damage because the blocks in question are probably too heavy to manhandle into place from a rope.
>
> Iain
>
>
> There has been serious talk of (and offers to pay for!) a scaffolding tower to get access to the damage because the blocks in question are probably too heavy to manhandle into place from a rope.
>
> Iain
Blimey Shirley some one must have a tower they can borrow . make sure its scaff tagged daily ... acro props to hold the rock place ...
To GA's about weight ... I had better stay clear Id pull it down just by holding on.. ... alas I wont be visiting the crag too soon ..
I will wait till its been tested and hold safety inspection certificates have been signed off.
Good luck with it anyhow and if you have invested so much time in trying/ working the line youtube.com/watch?v=RT-wAnEZ85g&
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
My sweat is acidic.
> (In reply to midgets of the world unite)
>
> Stu,
>
> Why are the holds crumbling?
>
> Mick
>
> Stu,
>
> Why are the holds crumbling?
>
> Mick
My sweat is acidic.
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Or: a romantic welsh beauty comapared to a flakey, over-used old pro held together with polish and glue
> (In reply to Ian McNeill)
>
>
> To these people, the suggestion they should find solace on some heathery trad plod in the Rhinogs is like comforting a jilted lover with the tired 'fish in the sea' line.
Or: a romantic welsh beauty comapared to a flakey, over-used old pro held together with polish and glue
In reply to Yorkspud: LOL. very good
Same goes for midgets reply.
I have to say I am in the camp that thinks this is just natural attrition, and that to repair it might be like trying to stem the flow of water as a dam breaks. You think you have it dial and then another falls of, and then another?
What will happen if it is another cold winter, and more holds fall off. Will the scafolding go back up. Maybe it will be like the Catty Sark or Tudor Rose, climbers will come from everywhere to see a relic being painstakingly repaired, only to fall apart again and again. Will it end up with seasonal closures for the repair works, and will the BMC be creating a master hold craftmans award?
Same goes for midgets reply.
I have to say I am in the camp that thinks this is just natural attrition, and that to repair it might be like trying to stem the flow of water as a dam breaks. You think you have it dial and then another falls of, and then another?
What will happen if it is another cold winter, and more holds fall off. Will the scafolding go back up. Maybe it will be like the Catty Sark or Tudor Rose, climbers will come from everywhere to see a relic being painstakingly repaired, only to fall apart again and again. Will it end up with seasonal closures for the repair works, and will the BMC be creating a master hold craftmans award?
In reply to Mark Reeves:
I think the issue is not the loss of single quality route, as some have said there are loads of them in the Rhinogs, its the loss of something almost unique in the UK, a quality 8b+ power endurance route. How many *** PE 8b+s are there in the Peak? How many on crags that are dry for more than a couple of months a year? Even Yorkshire is not well servered by them. There's maybe one in the SW, likewise Wales but this really isn't the loss of just another route. I'd wager that half of all 8b+ ascents in England and Wales have been on Mecca (obviously this is a figure I've plucked out of thin air but I defy you to prove otherwise!)
I think the issue is not the loss of single quality route, as some have said there are loads of them in the Rhinogs, its the loss of something almost unique in the UK, a quality 8b+ power endurance route. How many *** PE 8b+s are there in the Peak? How many on crags that are dry for more than a couple of months a year? Even Yorkshire is not well servered by them. There's maybe one in the SW, likewise Wales but this really isn't the loss of just another route. I'd wager that half of all 8b+ ascents in England and Wales have been on Mecca (obviously this is a figure I've plucked out of thin air but I defy you to prove otherwise!)
In reply to Mark Reeves:
Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
In reply to Martin76:
Can I have a list of these unfulfilled people, a template for a blackmail note and a chisel please?
> (In reply to Mark Reeves)
>
> Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
>
> Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
Can I have a list of these unfulfilled people, a template for a blackmail note and a chisel please?
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
if thats the case they ought to get a life.there are more tragedies than geology in action
> (In reply to Ian McNeill)
>
For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.>
>
>if thats the case they ought to get a life.there are more tragedies than geology in action
In reply to mark s: if thats the case they ought to get a life.there are more tragedies than geology in action
That's why he said one of life's minor tragedies
That's why he said one of life's minor tragedies
In reply to UKC News: To me repairing a route is just as bad as chipping a route. If it falls down then it falls down and it will provide a new challenge to someone. Preventing this is denying a "future generation" in the same way as chipping. And surely the repair will be intransient - what a mess the route will look when eventually the repair fails.
It is like so many things in today's society trying to stop the ravages of time like cosmetic surgery
Let nature take its course, allow the route to get old gracefully, refocus, move on.
It is like so many things in today's society trying to stop the ravages of time like cosmetic surgery
Let nature take its course, allow the route to get old gracefully, refocus, move on.
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
> (In reply to Ian McNeill)
>
> I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
>
Hmm - remind me not to invite them to a dinner party.....>
> I'm always surprised at replies like this to threads about classic routes changing. I'm not singling you out here Ian, as there's always a few posts like this on any thread. It surprises me because of the lack of empathy they show. Some people spend literally years of their lives devoted to climbing a route like Mecca. There are climbers who have trained week in, week out, always with Mecca in the backs of their minds. They've spent hundreds of pounds on Physio, with Mecca at the backs of their minds. They've woken up at 6am and driven to Raven Tor for a pre-work redpoint, with Mecca at the front of their mind. Some of these climbers, after years of effort, have reached the point where success could come at any time. For these climbers, the crumbling blocks on Mecca are one of life's minor tragedies - like a christmas period burglary, or writing off your car.
>
In reply to James Moyle: I think you'll find that not preventing this is denying a future generation. Mecca was a landmark route, one of great historical importance, being (IIRC) the first 8b+ in the UK and one of a handfull in the world at the time. Would you let a 1961 Ferrari 250 GTO go to rust? Would you let the Mona Lisa fade away? Didn't think so. Well don't do it to historically important routes. If they can be saved, save them.
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to craig d:
I can help with the work if required as i have spent some time pulling on the holds in question.
I can help with the work if required as i have spent some time pulling on the holds in question.
In reply to craig d:
While they're at it, a plaster cast of the route would help future reconstruction. Do Hubble as well so we can reproduce it in Buoux and see and Fred Nicole was right.
> (In reply to CragX Shop)
>
> I have a scaffold tower which I can loan to the repair team.
>
> I have a scaffold tower which I can loan to the repair team.
While they're at it, a plaster cast of the route would help future reconstruction. Do Hubble as well so we can reproduce it in Buoux and see and Fred Nicole was right.
In reply to andy farnell:
Possibly contributed to it Andy, but I haven't been to the Tor for about 18 months so not entirely my fault!
Possibly contributed to it Andy, but I haven't been to the Tor for about 18 months so not entirely my fault!
In reply to andy farnell:
Not perfect analogies.
Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
But even that falls short as an explanation.
We project meaning and significance on routes but they are always in a state of change, not set in stone.
See the other thread about cliffs falling down..
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=358688
Sport climbing and bouldering does seem to attract a certain type of personality who are obsessive in the extreme about ticking names and numbers.
Significant in this is the sense of ownership and protection they internalise about cliffs, routes and climbing events. Almost an exclusive sub-culture that sees itself above others in the climbing game. Very tribal indeed.
No wonder there is a sense of loss about routes like Mecca and big efforts to restore it, without it the sub-culture would loose meaning and a purpose.
God forbid if the whole place fell down. It would be black arm bands and a collective mourning for years to come.
Mick
> (In reply to James Moyle) I think you'll find that not preventing this is denying a future generation. Mecca was a landmark route, one of great historical importance, being (IIRC) the first 8b+ in the UK and one of a handfull in the world at the time. Would you let a 1961 Ferrari 250 GTO go to rust? Would you let the Mona Lisa fade away? Didn't think so. Well don't do it to historically important routes. If they can be saved, save them.
Not perfect analogies.
Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
But even that falls short as an explanation.
We project meaning and significance on routes but they are always in a state of change, not set in stone.
See the other thread about cliffs falling down..
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=358688
Sport climbing and bouldering does seem to attract a certain type of personality who are obsessive in the extreme about ticking names and numbers.
Significant in this is the sense of ownership and protection they internalise about cliffs, routes and climbing events. Almost an exclusive sub-culture that sees itself above others in the climbing game. Very tribal indeed.
No wonder there is a sense of loss about routes like Mecca and big efforts to restore it, without it the sub-culture would loose meaning and a purpose.
God forbid if the whole place fell down. It would be black arm bands and a collective mourning for years to come.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Sport climbing and bouldering does seem to attract a certain type of personality who are obsessive in the extreme about ticking names and numbers.
Splutter - excuse me - Hard Rock - puerile ticking - how many E points in a day etc etc
Re your other points the artificial aspects of any route and the whole game of rock climbing are well made.
Splutter - excuse me - Hard Rock - puerile ticking - how many E points in a day etc etc
Re your other points the artificial aspects of any route and the whole game of rock climbing are well made.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Point taken Simon. I really shouldn't have said exclusive....and I shouldn't exclude myself from the far end of the trainspotting spectrum - although I'm not into gaming or painting figurines I do have sunglasses that are held together by band-aid.
Point taken Simon. I really shouldn't have said exclusive....and I shouldn't exclude myself from the far end of the trainspotting spectrum - although I'm not into gaming or painting figurines I do have sunglasses that are held together by band-aid.
In reply to andy farnell: Sure it's a significant route and its possible demise is sad.
Of course if you look after the ferrari and the painting they will last longer, but don't believe for one moment they will last forever. Perhaps it would be better to think of how to reduce the wear on routes rather than try to repair them. Unfortunately, for that I don't have any answers.
Of course if you look after the ferrari and the painting they will last longer, but don't believe for one moment they will last forever. Perhaps it would be better to think of how to reduce the wear on routes rather than try to repair them. Unfortunately, for that I don't have any answers.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Does the vision to climb a certain piece of rock not also come from the minds and hands of men? Do they to not have a cultural meaning?
Eh? I thought this was rock climbing, hence the set in stone bit. Routes do have meaning and significance.
Precisely why there is the urge/need to preserve this particular route. Sport climbers are obsessive, it's part of the game. Are they any more obsessive than trad climbers or boulderers? Probably, which isn't to say that all disciplines within the sport have thier own degrees of obsession
The first part is true to an greater extent, as a sport climber may spend a far greater amount of time, money, blood, sweat and tears on 45ft of rock than is reasonably healthy! It doesn't see itself above other facets of the sport, but I'd agree it is a tribal sub-culture in the UK, as is top-end bouldering.
It would still have a purpose, and also a sense of loss, even from those of us who see such routes as way beyond our current capabilities. We may still aspire to such challenges in the future.
Do Prana or Moon do Sackcloth?
Andy
> (In reply to andy farnell)
> [...]
>
> Not perfect analogies.
>
> Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
>
> [...]
>
> Not perfect analogies.
>
> Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
>
Does the vision to climb a certain piece of rock not also come from the minds and hands of men? Do they to not have a cultural meaning?
> We project meaning and significance on routes but they are always in a state of change, not set in stone.
>
>
Eh? I thought this was rock climbing, hence the set in stone bit. Routes do have meaning and significance.
> Sport climbing and bouldering does seem to attract a certain type of personality who are obsessive in the extreme about ticking names and numbers.
>
>
Precisely why there is the urge/need to preserve this particular route. Sport climbers are obsessive, it's part of the game. Are they any more obsessive than trad climbers or boulderers? Probably, which isn't to say that all disciplines within the sport have thier own degrees of obsession
> Significant in this is the sense of ownership and protection they internalise about cliffs, routes and climbing events. Almost an exclusive sub-culture that sees itself above others in the climbing game. Very tribal indeed.
>
>
The first part is true to an greater extent, as a sport climber may spend a far greater amount of time, money, blood, sweat and tears on 45ft of rock than is reasonably healthy! It doesn't see itself above other facets of the sport, but I'd agree it is a tribal sub-culture in the UK, as is top-end bouldering.
> No wonder there is a sense of loss about routes like Mecca and big efforts to restore it, without it the sub-culture would loose meaning and a purpose.
>
>
It would still have a purpose, and also a sense of loss, even from those of us who see such routes as way beyond our current capabilities. We may still aspire to such challenges in the future.
> God forbid if the whole place fell down. It would be black arm bands and a collective mourning for years to come.
>
>
Do Prana or Moon do Sackcloth?
Andy
In reply to andy farnell:
You've got it real bad Andy, real bad....so bad it's real good.
Love it.
Mick
You've got it real bad Andy, real bad....so bad it's real good.
Love it.
Mick
In reply to craig d: Thanks Craig, I've passed your message on to the man with Mecca* in his cupboard.
*Well, parts of it.
Iain
*Well, parts of it.
Iain
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
It attracts all sort, but only the obsessive and grade motivated climber is likely to ever climb 8b+
> (In reply to andy farnell)
> [...]
>
> Not perfect analogies.
>
> Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
>
But Mecca IS one of these exceptions you mention. The configuration of the rock 100 years ago compared to now is hugely different, firstly due to aid ascents of the line and then due to cleaning and gluing associated with free climbing. Not unlike a lot of the hardest sport routes on peak limestone the climb would almost certainly not exist in a climbable state without the artificial process of selective cleaning and gluing. In many respects it's as much an artifact borne of the hands of man as a car or a painting. As such the logic of its existance/creation is the same logic for the repeated resortation efforts of which this is the most significant, but the last in a long line.> [...]
>
> Not perfect analogies.
>
> Climbs are natural challenges sculpted by nature (well, with some exceptions) whereas cars and paintings come from the minds and hands of men, artifacts with cultural meaning.
>
> Sport climbing and bouldering does seem to attract a certain type of personality who are obsessive in the extreme about ticking names and numbers.
It attracts all sort, but only the obsessive and grade motivated climber is likely to ever climb 8b+
In reply to andy farnell:
A rusting Ferrari wouldn't bother me one bit, even if it was a classic or whatever. And the Mona Lisa is F*ing shite.
> (In reply to James Moyle) I think you'll find that not preventing this is denying a future generation. Mecca was a landmark route, one of great historical importance, being (IIRC) the first 8b+ in the UK and one of a handfull in the world at the time. Would you let a 1961 Ferrari 250 GTO go to rust? Would you let the Mona Lisa fade away? Didn't think so. Well don't do it to historically important routes. If they can be saved, save them.
>
> Andy F
>
> Andy F
A rusting Ferrari wouldn't bother me one bit, even if it was a classic or whatever. And the Mona Lisa is F*ing shite.
In reply to UKC News:
I was wondering about liability in the event of a "mended" block coming off and hurting someone.
Are the well meaning route doctors risking being sued in this event?
I was wondering about liability in the event of a "mended" block coming off and hurting someone.
Are the well meaning route doctors risking being sued in this event?
In reply to simes303:
Given it's a Ferrari, hence Italian, if it looks at a wet weather forecast it's turn to hydrated iron oxide. And the Mona Lisa is a bag of, but a historical bag of... so it's a little bit important.
Andy F
> (In reply to andy farnell)
> [...]
>
> A rusting Ferrari wouldn't bother me one bit, even if it was a classic or whatever. And the Mona Lisa is F*ing shite.
> [...]
>
> A rusting Ferrari wouldn't bother me one bit, even if it was a classic or whatever. And the Mona Lisa is F*ing shite.
Given it's a Ferrari, hence Italian, if it looks at a wet weather forecast it's turn to hydrated iron oxide. And the Mona Lisa is a bag of, but a historical bag of... so it's a little bit important.
Andy F
In reply to andy farnell:
Going along the classic car and Mona Lisa route, how about a perspex screen in front of the route to preserve it for future generations? Occasionally, a well-honed 'curator' could take the screen away, brush it gently, and climb it wearing white gloves.
Going along the classic car and Mona Lisa route, how about a perspex screen in front of the route to preserve it for future generations? Occasionally, a well-honed 'curator' could take the screen away, brush it gently, and climb it wearing white gloves.
In reply to UKC News:
Incidentally I often wondered why climbing walls didn't have replicas of well-known sports routes. I always thought it might be a bit of a selling point. Perhaps its a bit more difficult than you think to 'manufacture' them?
Incidentally I often wondered why climbing walls didn't have replicas of well-known sports routes. I always thought it might be a bit of a selling point. Perhaps its a bit more difficult than you think to 'manufacture' them?
In reply to gallam1: It was tried once at Broadbottom Quarry, you can still see traces of the fibreglass resin at the start of the quarry used to make the molds..
In reply to Martin76:
Recreating it indoors would be easier probably, it would be like new grange in ireland or those famous caves in france. In that everyone goes to see them, but all they see is a 'reconstruction', as the originals are too delicate for humans to touch!!
> (In reply to Mark Reeves)
>
> Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
>
> Surely in this day and age it must be possible to recreate Mecca faithfully indoors, for the benefit of those whose lives are consumed in this way? The alternative is to run the risk of ambitions being wrecked by their inability to get the route done before the whole crag crumbles into the dale.
Recreating it indoors would be easier probably, it would be like new grange in ireland or those famous caves in france. In that everyone goes to see them, but all they see is a 'reconstruction', as the originals are too delicate for humans to touch!!
The block is off. I took it off yesterday before it fell off. It took almost no effort and was caught and lowered in a cunningly made net. It now sits at the bottom of the crag ready for its future, which may be back at the start of the route, or more likely thrown into the nettles!
There are 2 large bits, and a lot of little ones. Sticking back on the jumble of pieces will be a jigsaw beyond most peoples ability. Gluing the block on before taking it off was not an option due to the amount of mud around the crack and smaller bits in between the big pieces. I don't think a satisfactory bond would have been made, especially considering the size.
It's beyond my ability to fix it, but the bits are there for someone to try if they wish. I am certain it can be climbed without, but needs a while for the scar to dry (very wet brown mud behind the block). There are good solid holds left. Though I have not done the new section I think it looks to be slightly harder, but possibly without changing the grade. Certainly won't go up to above F8c.
ste mcclure
There are 2 large bits, and a lot of little ones. Sticking back on the jumble of pieces will be a jigsaw beyond most peoples ability. Gluing the block on before taking it off was not an option due to the amount of mud around the crack and smaller bits in between the big pieces. I don't think a satisfactory bond would have been made, especially considering the size.
It's beyond my ability to fix it, but the bits are there for someone to try if they wish. I am certain it can be climbed without, but needs a while for the scar to dry (very wet brown mud behind the block). There are good solid holds left. Though I have not done the new section I think it looks to be slightly harder, but possibly without changing the grade. Certainly won't go up to above F8c.
ste mcclure
In reply to andy farnell:
If you study the background of the Mona Lisa closely, you see that the landscape is dominated by the theme of erosion and fragmentation, a subject that Leonardo studied closely and wrote about extensively. So the painting may be worth looking at again from a climber's point of view.
If you study the background of the Mona Lisa closely, you see that the landscape is dominated by the theme of erosion and fragmentation, a subject that Leonardo studied closely and wrote about extensively. So the painting may be worth looking at again from a climber's point of view.
In reply to ste mac: if some one does get the climb glued back togeather, think they might then have a crack at the Dru?
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