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I am mum to a 9 year old climber and a beginner climber myself (I started climbing so that I could support my son in his passion).
My son is a strong, fearless, determined, focused kind of chap and is always looking for ways to push himself. He loves climbing and is doing very well and is now desperate to start working towards lead climbing.
He has even saved up for his own rope and is saving towards having some private lessons in lead climbing.
However, the climbing instructor I talked to at the weekend felt that lead climbing is a big no no for kids as they can't be expected to maintain their focus for that long.
I trust this instructor (he teaches kids classes every week) but it does conflict with other opinions I have received (another instructor, another parent whose kid already lead climbs, other climbers) so has left me feeling confused.
I know you guys on here are always happy to give an opinion so I thought I'd see what you thought.
Is there a right age to start lead climbing? or am I just asking for an accident if I let him lead climb?
My son is a strong, fearless, determined, focused kind of chap and is always looking for ways to push himself. He loves climbing and is doing very well and is now desperate to start working towards lead climbing.
He has even saved up for his own rope and is saving towards having some private lessons in lead climbing.
However, the climbing instructor I talked to at the weekend felt that lead climbing is a big no no for kids as they can't be expected to maintain their focus for that long.
I trust this instructor (he teaches kids classes every week) but it does conflict with other opinions I have received (another instructor, another parent whose kid already lead climbs, other climbers) so has left me feeling confused.
I know you guys on here are always happy to give an opinion so I thought I'd see what you thought.
Is there a right age to start lead climbing? or am I just asking for an accident if I let him lead climb?
In reply to Em28:
Surely it depends entirely on your son's personality. Some 9 year olds are amazing lead climbers but quite a large proportion are not able to keep concentrating, like you said.
I think you need to his personality into account, along with the other points.
Ellie
Surely it depends entirely on your son's personality. Some 9 year olds are amazing lead climbers but quite a large proportion are not able to keep concentrating, like you said.
I think you need to his personality into account, along with the other points.
Ellie
In reply to Em28:
My daughter first lead climbed aged 7 1/2. A very easy route with first clip pre-clipped, on that she would have found too easy on a top-rope. She was already quite experienced. I had taken advice from the climbing wall staff/instructors who felt that as they felt she was confident climbing and as long as she knew not to back clip it was ok.
She is now 8 1/2 and is in the Foundry Academy and leads during training sessions (and was on local TV leading), they aways wear helmets and had teaching before starting re back clipping and dangers etc.
Myself and my husband are confident climbers and belayers. There is a difference in lead belaying, esp re dynamic belaying so if they were to fall not to come to a stop too suddenly.
If you are not confident it would be better to get an instructor that has experience with taking kids on their first indoor lead. Also it is worth getting kids used to clipping and unclipping rope one handed, and tope roping the route the first time they go up it.
My daughter first lead climbed aged 7 1/2. A very easy route with first clip pre-clipped, on that she would have found too easy on a top-rope. She was already quite experienced. I had taken advice from the climbing wall staff/instructors who felt that as they felt she was confident climbing and as long as she knew not to back clip it was ok.
She is now 8 1/2 and is in the Foundry Academy and leads during training sessions (and was on local TV leading), they aways wear helmets and had teaching before starting re back clipping and dangers etc.
Myself and my husband are confident climbers and belayers. There is a difference in lead belaying, esp re dynamic belaying so if they were to fall not to come to a stop too suddenly.
If you are not confident it would be better to get an instructor that has experience with taking kids on their first indoor lead. Also it is worth getting kids used to clipping and unclipping rope one handed, and tope roping the route the first time they go up it.
In reply to kat rivett: "There is a difference in lead belaying, esp re dynamic belaying so if they were to fall not to come to a stop too suddenly."
Is there? So do you have to deliberately let the rope slip a bit? That sounds quite tricky.
Is there? So do you have to deliberately let the rope slip a bit? That sounds quite tricky.
In reply to andy: So do you have to deliberately let the rope slip a bit? That sounds quite tricky.
No. You move a bit when taking the load so the leader (faller) isnt jolted or bangs into the rock so much. Article here though the illustration is confusing.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1844
No. You move a bit when taking the load so the leader (faller) isnt jolted or bangs into the rock so much. Article here though the illustration is confusing.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1844
In reply to andy:
>So do you have to deliberately let the rope slip a bit?
NO
I know plenty of people that would rather have someone lighter belaying them on a lead fall so not to come to a sudden stop. this even more a issue with a child as they are so much lighter! Stepping in can help.
there many previous threads re this topic and an article by Adrian Berry
to quote
"First of all, just to clear-up a few myths, the following is not dynamic belaying:
1) Dynamic belaying involves giving lots of slack - FALSE!
The more slack there is in the system, the further the climber will fall before the rope can start to do its job and the more force will need to be absorbed. Unless there is an obvious hazard that you need to steer the falling climber away from, give only enough slack to allow freedom of movement.
2) Dynamic belaying is about letting the rope slide through the belay device a bit - FALSE!
Arresting a fall requires an almost instinctive response, there isn't enough time for the fine motor skill required to allow for controlled rope slippage, the risk is you will drop them altogether (note: this can be done but requires gloves, a figure of eight as a belay device, and preferably a back-up belayer.)"
>So do you have to deliberately let the rope slip a bit?
NO
I know plenty of people that would rather have someone lighter belaying them on a lead fall so not to come to a sudden stop. this even more a issue with a child as they are so much lighter! Stepping in can help.
there many previous threads re this topic and an article by Adrian Berry
to quote
"First of all, just to clear-up a few myths, the following is not dynamic belaying:
1) Dynamic belaying involves giving lots of slack - FALSE!
The more slack there is in the system, the further the climber will fall before the rope can start to do its job and the more force will need to be absorbed. Unless there is an obvious hazard that you need to steer the falling climber away from, give only enough slack to allow freedom of movement.
2) Dynamic belaying is about letting the rope slide through the belay device a bit - FALSE!
Arresting a fall requires an almost instinctive response, there isn't enough time for the fine motor skill required to allow for controlled rope slippage, the risk is you will drop them altogether (note: this can be done but requires gloves, a figure of eight as a belay device, and preferably a back-up belayer.)"
In reply to andy:
The whole point about DYNAMIC belaying is that you don't stop the falling climber with a jolt. It is especially useful if belays (either running or main) are dodgy, but also helps when a big (for the falling climber) fall is encountered, as then neither the faller or the catcher suffer.
The objective is to bring the falling climber to a gentle stop (way above hitting anything).
When an adult belays a child leading, then due to the difference in body mass, normal belaying technique would mean an immediate and sudden stop - not good for a young child.
When the rope is allowed to slip a bit, or alternatively the belayer steps in towards the wall as the fall is taken up (my personal preference at a Wall), then the fall is arrested gently. End result, child does not get shaken up more by the stop than the fall.
This technique takes a bit of practice, and is best learnt with someone else who knows what they're doing. It has been used since the very start of climbing - waist belaying is a good example.
The whole point about DYNAMIC belaying is that you don't stop the falling climber with a jolt. It is especially useful if belays (either running or main) are dodgy, but also helps when a big (for the falling climber) fall is encountered, as then neither the faller or the catcher suffer.
The objective is to bring the falling climber to a gentle stop (way above hitting anything).
When an adult belays a child leading, then due to the difference in body mass, normal belaying technique would mean an immediate and sudden stop - not good for a young child.
When the rope is allowed to slip a bit, or alternatively the belayer steps in towards the wall as the fall is taken up (my personal preference at a Wall), then the fall is arrested gently. End result, child does not get shaken up more by the stop than the fall.
This technique takes a bit of practice, and is best learnt with someone else who knows what they're doing. It has been used since the very start of climbing - waist belaying is a good example.
In reply to Em28:
At the wall my kid goes they don't let them lead until they are ten.
Top roped at first.
If you are confident belaying them top and lead together they they let you supervise them at an earlier age.
The instructor you spoke to needs to distinquish between kids and leaders, at what age does he think they are suitable for the transition? Just saying 'kids' doesn't explain it to you at all!
At the wall my kid goes they don't let them lead until they are ten.
Top roped at first.
If you are confident belaying them top and lead together they they let you supervise them at an earlier age.
The instructor you spoke to needs to distinquish between kids and leaders, at what age does he think they are suitable for the transition? Just saying 'kids' doesn't explain it to you at all!
In reply to winhill:
i must be behind the times as i didn't do my first lead until i was 12, but then again that was on real rock placing gear.
i reckon on sport or indoor walls it is just a matter of letting them have a go at whatever age they wish. as long as they are belayed well what is the worst that could happen?
> (In reply to Em28)
>
> At the wall my kid goes they don't let them lead until they are ten.
>
>
> At the wall my kid goes they don't let them lead until they are ten.
>
i must be behind the times as i didn't do my first lead until i was 12, but then again that was on real rock placing gear.
i reckon on sport or indoor walls it is just a matter of letting them have a go at whatever age they wish. as long as they are belayed well what is the worst that could happen?
In reply to Em28:
My opinion is if they are ready to lead - can climb the route comfortably and know how to clip safely and not to get their feet tangled in the rope.
AND
They have the right frame of mind/ attitude/ personality to be able to deal with the pressures of leading and most importantly falling.
Then I'd be happy belaying a young person leading.
I would however insist on a lid and probably clip at least the first two bolts to prevent ground fall.
I also suspect that a vertical route would be safer than a slab (slightly overhanging some will argue but lets try to think of a normal ability child)
I watched a lad about 7 I guess leading at Bristol the other day, he was brilliant.
At sunderland there was a lad of 11-12 having a bash at french 7's on lead regularly.
The only troubles I see beyond technique are if your son falls and has a bad experience of it he could have troubles getting over it - no different to most adults, but they may understand this before the event. Kids are invincible when young, this is good for boldness but not so good for safety. If you're belaying then you have a degree of control and input too.
Good luck and climb safe (& enjoy)
My opinion is if they are ready to lead - can climb the route comfortably and know how to clip safely and not to get their feet tangled in the rope.
AND
They have the right frame of mind/ attitude/ personality to be able to deal with the pressures of leading and most importantly falling.
Then I'd be happy belaying a young person leading.
I would however insist on a lid and probably clip at least the first two bolts to prevent ground fall.
I also suspect that a vertical route would be safer than a slab (slightly overhanging some will argue but lets try to think of a normal ability child)
I watched a lad about 7 I guess leading at Bristol the other day, he was brilliant.
At sunderland there was a lad of 11-12 having a bash at french 7's on lead regularly.
The only troubles I see beyond technique are if your son falls and has a bad experience of it he could have troubles getting over it - no different to most adults, but they may understand this before the event. Kids are invincible when young, this is good for boldness but not so good for safety. If you're belaying then you have a degree of control and input too.
Good luck and climb safe (& enjoy)
In reply to fred99: Now, thanks for that, back to the original question...
There's two forms of leading, trad and sport. Sport - it really doesn't matter what age they are, so long as they are wearing a helmet and are supervised at the top they're going to be OK. Trad - different matter entirely, they have to a) understand the danger and b) be able to cope with the stress of that understanding. 11 - 13 would seem to be an OK range for that, but really, it's about as individual a call as you could possibly make.
There's two forms of leading, trad and sport. Sport - it really doesn't matter what age they are, so long as they are wearing a helmet and are supervised at the top they're going to be OK. Trad - different matter entirely, they have to a) understand the danger and b) be able to cope with the stress of that understanding. 11 - 13 would seem to be an OK range for that, but really, it's about as individual a call as you could possibly make.
In reply to Kevster: I assumed indoors sport lead,
In reply to Em28:
As soon as their hands are big enough to clip the clips! yours should be getting there. hard to get distracted leading..more of a danger belaying I would think. My friends daughter leads trad and the rack is almost as big as she is.
However if that instructor/gym is unhappy with it, you will have to accept that when he/they are responsible for your child.
As soon as their hands are big enough to clip the clips! yours should be getting there. hard to get distracted leading..more of a danger belaying I would think. My friends daughter leads trad and the rack is almost as big as she is.
However if that instructor/gym is unhappy with it, you will have to accept that when he/they are responsible for your child.
In reply to Em28:
As others have said, I think it depends on the childs personality, and you can probably judge better than anyone whether you believe he has the concentration and composure.
Also, there is lots he can do to prepare to lead without any of the dangers; as someone has mentioned, he can practice clipping one handed (harder for smaller hands). He can also learn which way round to put the quickdraw (so that the rope won't end up trailing across the gate), and to watch for, and avoid back-clipping. Once he is sure of his technique, he can carry out all the steps needed to lead, by trailing a rope (for which he places quickdraws and clips in) while actually on a top rope. This would give both of you confidence that he knows all of the moves he needs and can perform them proficiently, before he takes on any risk.
Good luck!
As others have said, I think it depends on the childs personality, and you can probably judge better than anyone whether you believe he has the concentration and composure.
Also, there is lots he can do to prepare to lead without any of the dangers; as someone has mentioned, he can practice clipping one handed (harder for smaller hands). He can also learn which way round to put the quickdraw (so that the rope won't end up trailing across the gate), and to watch for, and avoid back-clipping. Once he is sure of his technique, he can carry out all the steps needed to lead, by trailing a rope (for which he places quickdraws and clips in) while actually on a top rope. This would give both of you confidence that he knows all of the moves he needs and can perform them proficiently, before he takes on any risk.
Good luck!
In reply to Em28: My daughter (rockovamonkey) started leading (sport) at age 9.
There are some indoor walls that won't allow it that young though.
She leads at an outdoor wall, placing her own quickdraws as well.
She always leads wearing a helmet and generally a grade easier than she would top rope.
I normally hold the live rope down low but keep slack out of it so I can keep the dead rope locked off and shock absorb a fall by gently raising my live rope hand as the weight comes on to it in a fall.
She has done a little bit of trad gear placement and lead rope clipping while on a top rope but we haven't done enough yet for me to let her lead trad yet. Also, she hasn't done any belay building yet.
There are some indoor walls that won't allow it that young though.
She leads at an outdoor wall, placing her own quickdraws as well.
She always leads wearing a helmet and generally a grade easier than she would top rope.
I normally hold the live rope down low but keep slack out of it so I can keep the dead rope locked off and shock absorb a fall by gently raising my live rope hand as the weight comes on to it in a fall.
She has done a little bit of trad gear placement and lead rope clipping while on a top rope but we haven't done enough yet for me to let her lead trad yet. Also, she hasn't done any belay building yet.
Thanks very much for the feedback.
My son is very gutsy and focused so I am sure he'll keep the concentration up.
He has been competing in judo from a young age so is used to falling hard in that. I know it is a different kind of fall, but he is used to reacting to save himself and to taking a jolt. I don't think for a second a lead fall will put him off. It will probablly put me off, but not him!
I think we'll procede with gently getting used to clipping in etc and see how he goes.
Thanks again
My son is very gutsy and focused so I am sure he'll keep the concentration up.
He has been competing in judo from a young age so is used to falling hard in that. I know it is a different kind of fall, but he is used to reacting to save himself and to taking a jolt. I don't think for a second a lead fall will put him off. It will probablly put me off, but not him!
I think we'll procede with gently getting used to clipping in etc and see how he goes.
Thanks again
In reply to Em28:
Haven't got time to read the whole thread, but I don't see any problem, in principle. Youngest I've taught to lead climb was about 14, but that was on trad gear.
Thoughts for your son are mainly about what happens at the end of the route - problem you might have is getting him down again!
- On a wall, will his fingers be strong enough to sort out the steel snap-gate and screwgate at the top - some of them can have strong springs and the screwgate might have got quite tight. Even I've struggled on occasion to undo the screwgate.
- On bolted routes outside, do you trust him to do all the necessary ropework at the top to get back down safely.
- On trad routes, apart from placing gear effectively, can he rig a proper belay at the top if it's not as easy as a sling round a couple of trees, or will you pre-set something for him when he arrives.
Hope that helps.
Haven't got time to read the whole thread, but I don't see any problem, in principle. Youngest I've taught to lead climb was about 14, but that was on trad gear.
Thoughts for your son are mainly about what happens at the end of the route - problem you might have is getting him down again!
- On a wall, will his fingers be strong enough to sort out the steel snap-gate and screwgate at the top - some of them can have strong springs and the screwgate might have got quite tight. Even I've struggled on occasion to undo the screwgate.
- On bolted routes outside, do you trust him to do all the necessary ropework at the top to get back down safely.
- On trad routes, apart from placing gear effectively, can he rig a proper belay at the top if it's not as easy as a sling round a couple of trees, or will you pre-set something for him when he arrives.
Hope that helps.
In reply to Em28: I think it is difficult. If you were a keen climber yourself, it you would be in a good position to make a judgement and then supervise him yourself. Unfortunately, you have to give this responsibility over to an instructor so really, regardless of your sons ability, you are at the whim of whoever is instructing him.
My granddaughter Natalie started leading age 7. She is 9 now.
Check this out.
youtube.com/watch?v=cfwNgLgLzpg&
Check this out.
youtube.com/watch?v=cfwNgLgLzpg&
In reply to Em28: You will know as a parent if your kid is ready. If your not sure then wait.
My son has just started leading outdoors on the grit, at first i abbed down the route and placed all the gear for him to clip and then on his second route he placed the gear himself.
I either lower him off from the top or my climbing partner will wait for him at the top to help him belay.
His confidence has grown and after about a dozen routes he is leading severes, pretty much putting me to shame.
As previously mentioned by others its hard to stop concentrating whilst leading.
My son has just started leading outdoors on the grit, at first i abbed down the route and placed all the gear for him to clip and then on his second route he placed the gear himself.
I either lower him off from the top or my climbing partner will wait for him at the top to help him belay.
His confidence has grown and after about a dozen routes he is leading severes, pretty much putting me to shame.
As previously mentioned by others its hard to stop concentrating whilst leading.
In reply to Em28:
My sons were leading at the Foundry form the age of 5 - might even be 4. Regarding indoor climbing I don't think age it is a consideration if they are up for it. I had a quickdrw on a wall at home and tied a short length of rope to the floor so they could practice clipping.
My sons were leading at the Foundry form the age of 5 - might even be 4. Regarding indoor climbing I don't think age it is a consideration if they are up for it. I had a quickdrw on a wall at home and tied a short length of rope to the floor so they could practice clipping.
In reply to charlieg0pzo:
Good work, Natalie.
Watching that reminded me - to the OP: point to note is that leading involves extra effort in dragging the rope up, so will be lots more tiring than top-roping and it uses different muscles.
Good work, Natalie.
Watching that reminded me - to the OP: point to note is that leading involves extra effort in dragging the rope up, so will be lots more tiring than top-roping and it uses different muscles.
In reply to Em28: at the wall I climb at I saw a kids group being tought how to lead, they set up a top rope and belayed off of that as normal but the climber had a rope below as if they were leading, it was not attached to anything, but it allowed them to get used to clipping in without having to worry about falling. Hope this helps
will
will
In reply to Em28: agree with all of the points raised and offered so far, but would add that to take the opportunity to prctice falls would ensure your son is not worried about the fall. ask the instructor about clip and drop training, tho you might want to use a different instructor if yours is not supportive at the moment.
In reply to Baldone: I've resisted posting until now but here goes:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=117124
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=117124
In reply to Em28: My daughter is five and was desperate to lead so who am i to say no!admittidly the wall is only 6 metres.
In reply to Em28:
I'd let him lead. If he's rairing to lead, without being pushed, he's probably ready. If you've doubts about his ability to concentrate/cope with the intensity of leading, some leading will sort that out quick time. I'd force him to drop his grade considerably for several sessions until clipping, dealing with sharp end is down naturally.
I'd let him lead. If he's rairing to lead, without being pushed, he's probably ready. If you've doubts about his ability to concentrate/cope with the intensity of leading, some leading will sort that out quick time. I'd force him to drop his grade considerably for several sessions until clipping, dealing with sharp end is down naturally.
In reply to Em28:
Interesing thread - links in with the "Health and Safety" Society we live in. If we shield youngsters from danger then they will not get used to it. I wasn't sure wheither the Em28 was talking about sport or trad - but appears to be sport - and trad may (hopefully) come later.
My youngster (now 15 and 18) started years ago - I think probably about age 8. One problem with a youngster can often be reaching the next holds - with their shorter reach. The clips on newer walls seem now to be closer together - and at more wall clips are now in place - so leading is a relatively safe pastime. A helmet is recommend. As they gain confidence they also gain experience and become more aware of what is possible or not possible. They should not be pushed but gradually gain that confidence.
Leading outdoors for the first time for anyone is another step - there are no friendly bolts or clips in place - and placing gear is an art in itself. THis should be done gradually - with as one person has said starting off with gear in place - then practicing to place gear at ground level to get used to the various positions etc for gear - and then leading and placing gear - having someone jumaring beside them is also a good idea. For many again do not set you sights too high - you may be able to lead French 7a on bolts but this does not translate to leading E3 or E4 outdoors (at first) - start low and build ability and confidence
As for a wall - you know your kids - I would have thought they could give it a try. I know when my daughter went with friend and tried to lead for the first time she could only reach about 2/3 height and then came down - her friend had a go and got a bit higher - and then my daughter tried again and got a bit higher still - then her friend topped out - and my daughter (or did she top out first - can't remember) topped out - and then she was keen to try other ones then. A little bit of friendly (is it ever) competition is useful - or if the youngster is the only one then that high point becomes a challenge - and even if they only get the next clip it is a success - then try again.
Also tell them to use their feet - footwork is everything and important to foster good technique. Also look down to see where one is placing their feet - not just upwards to the next handhold with th feet following somehow.
E
Interesing thread - links in with the "Health and Safety" Society we live in. If we shield youngsters from danger then they will not get used to it. I wasn't sure wheither the Em28 was talking about sport or trad - but appears to be sport - and trad may (hopefully) come later.
My youngster (now 15 and 18) started years ago - I think probably about age 8. One problem with a youngster can often be reaching the next holds - with their shorter reach. The clips on newer walls seem now to be closer together - and at more wall clips are now in place - so leading is a relatively safe pastime. A helmet is recommend. As they gain confidence they also gain experience and become more aware of what is possible or not possible. They should not be pushed but gradually gain that confidence.
Leading outdoors for the first time for anyone is another step - there are no friendly bolts or clips in place - and placing gear is an art in itself. THis should be done gradually - with as one person has said starting off with gear in place - then practicing to place gear at ground level to get used to the various positions etc for gear - and then leading and placing gear - having someone jumaring beside them is also a good idea. For many again do not set you sights too high - you may be able to lead French 7a on bolts but this does not translate to leading E3 or E4 outdoors (at first) - start low and build ability and confidence
As for a wall - you know your kids - I would have thought they could give it a try. I know when my daughter went with friend and tried to lead for the first time she could only reach about 2/3 height and then came down - her friend had a go and got a bit higher - and then my daughter tried again and got a bit higher still - then her friend topped out - and my daughter (or did she top out first - can't remember) topped out - and then she was keen to try other ones then. A little bit of friendly (is it ever) competition is useful - or if the youngster is the only one then that high point becomes a challenge - and even if they only get the next clip it is a success - then try again.
Also tell them to use their feet - footwork is everything and important to foster good technique. Also look down to see where one is placing their feet - not just upwards to the next handhold with th feet following somehow.
E
In reply to Em28:
Interesting thread. Leading, as with most climbing skills, is a matter of judgement, usually for the individual but for a youngster the "instructor" and parents will get involved. There is no magic age at which responsibility, skill and judgement come together. I have instructed many adults who do a far worse job of leading than some 10 year olds I have worked with.
If you are unhappy with your instructor, find another one or ask them to justify why they say a particular age. Any instrucor worth their salt will be able to justify their decisions and they should be based on knowledge of the sport, the people invloved and the environment the activity is taking place in.
It is also interesting that so many on this thread talk about needing helmets for young people. I understand about young children having a greater head/body weight ratio but this stops applying before puberty so why a helmet. I am not saying don't wear helmets, I am saying make a reasoned judgement based on the risk/
safety/benefit not one based on a birthday.
Interesting thread. Leading, as with most climbing skills, is a matter of judgement, usually for the individual but for a youngster the "instructor" and parents will get involved. There is no magic age at which responsibility, skill and judgement come together. I have instructed many adults who do a far worse job of leading than some 10 year olds I have worked with.
If you are unhappy with your instructor, find another one or ask them to justify why they say a particular age. Any instrucor worth their salt will be able to justify their decisions and they should be based on knowledge of the sport, the people invloved and the environment the activity is taking place in.
It is also interesting that so many on this thread talk about needing helmets for young people. I understand about young children having a greater head/body weight ratio but this stops applying before puberty so why a helmet. I am not saying don't wear helmets, I am saying make a reasoned judgement based on the risk/
safety/benefit not one based on a birthday.
As you are new to climbing yourself it will be hard to know when it is right to start leading, and even harder as you are making the decision for your young child.
My kids started leading outdoor bolted routes at 4 and 8 and absolutely love it (photos here http://climbfrance.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-10-17T04%3A41%3A00-... ) I never pushed them into climbing and let them decide if they came out with us or not. Leading for them was a natural thing to do and they never got used to relying on a tight top-rope.
Leading indoors for a 9 year old should be no problem and it is a real shame that indoor walls have such strict rules. Your son sounds well capable of leading indoors and will enjoy the extra challenge.
Good luck and safe climbing.
My kids started leading outdoor bolted routes at 4 and 8 and absolutely love it (photos here http://climbfrance.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-10-17T04%3A41%3A00-... ) I never pushed them into climbing and let them decide if they came out with us or not. Leading for them was a natural thing to do and they never got used to relying on a tight top-rope.
Leading indoors for a 9 year old should be no problem and it is a real shame that indoor walls have such strict rules. Your son sounds well capable of leading indoors and will enjoy the extra challenge.
Good luck and safe climbing.
Thanks for all yuor opinions and suggestions.
Plenty of things for me to think about.
I have no concern about my son's strength, detrmination and concentration - though his reach lets him down, especially on featureless walls (we only climb indoor at the moment).
My concern lies mainly in my ability to make a safe judgement. Though if we start off with private lessons then hopefully they'll give us a better idea of if this is really a viable next step at the moment.
We have an instructor more than happy to teach us, I was just thrown by this other instructor being so against kids leading.
One last question.
I probablly will put him a helmet. Will his skateboarding helmet do the job or will he need a specialist climbing helmet?
Thanks.
Plenty of things for me to think about.
I have no concern about my son's strength, detrmination and concentration - though his reach lets him down, especially on featureless walls (we only climb indoor at the moment).
My concern lies mainly in my ability to make a safe judgement. Though if we start off with private lessons then hopefully they'll give us a better idea of if this is really a viable next step at the moment.
We have an instructor more than happy to teach us, I was just thrown by this other instructor being so against kids leading.
One last question.
I probablly will put him a helmet. Will his skateboarding helmet do the job or will he need a specialist climbing helmet?
Thanks.
In reply to Em28: if youre only climbing indoors I dont think you have much to worry about.
if youre going to get a helmet get him a proper one, theyre not very expensive considering what they do.
Personally I plan on my son trad leading outdoors by the time hes 6.
if youre going to get a helmet get him a proper one, theyre not very expensive considering what they do.
Personally I plan on my son trad leading outdoors by the time hes 6.
In reply to fxceltic: Personally I plan on my son trad leading outdoors by the time hes 6.
Does he get a choice
Does he get a choice
In reply to Em28:
My son is ten and has recently done his first trad lead on Little Little Crack at Harborough, there was another adult at the top already so he didn't need to belay the second nor did we rely on him to setup the anchor. He's been leading indoors for over a year now, having built up to it using the top rope and another rope to clip approach others have mentioned. To be honest we just ran out of valid reason why he shouldn't do it.
If you're happy he can keep focused and understands the extra care he'll need to take I'd encourage him. Some 9 years olds are ready to lead some 15 year olds are not.
I've never been told my son is not allowed to lead at a wall (Beacon, Foundry, Castle, Arethusa, Dynamic Rock) and the normal comments from wall staff are more along the lines of "how old is he, he knows what he's doing doesn't he".
All that said, getting someone to give paid for lessons to a 9 year old might prove harder purely from an insurance point of view.
My son is ten and has recently done his first trad lead on Little Little Crack at Harborough, there was another adult at the top already so he didn't need to belay the second nor did we rely on him to setup the anchor. He's been leading indoors for over a year now, having built up to it using the top rope and another rope to clip approach others have mentioned. To be honest we just ran out of valid reason why he shouldn't do it.
If you're happy he can keep focused and understands the extra care he'll need to take I'd encourage him. Some 9 years olds are ready to lead some 15 year olds are not.
I've never been told my son is not allowed to lead at a wall (Beacon, Foundry, Castle, Arethusa, Dynamic Rock) and the normal comments from wall staff are more along the lines of "how old is he, he knows what he's doing doesn't he".
All that said, getting someone to give paid for lessons to a 9 year old might prove harder purely from an insurance point of view.
In reply to Morgan Woods:
Some walls are pretty decent about letting you lead climb, but they won't do lead courses for under 18's. So me and my mate had to teach ourselves, but you are right aslong you're well belayed there should be no worries.
Some walls are pretty decent about letting you lead climb, but they won't do lead courses for under 18's. So me and my mate had to teach ourselves, but you are right aslong you're well belayed there should be no worries.
In reply to Em28:
A lot of the kids at Ratho lead climb. You are not explicit but I expect that the 'focus' referred to by the instructor advising against is about the focus on belaying which can be a particular issue. Easily solved with someone 'second on' holding the rope below the belay.
Obviously there are issues for the climber, psychologically being above the rope and falls are different to a gentle pop-off a fairly tight top-rope - but that is part of the sport.
Regards Martin
A lot of the kids at Ratho lead climb. You are not explicit but I expect that the 'focus' referred to by the instructor advising against is about the focus on belaying which can be a particular issue. Easily solved with someone 'second on' holding the rope below the belay.
Obviously there are issues for the climber, psychologically being above the rope and falls are different to a gentle pop-off a fairly tight top-rope - but that is part of the sport.
Regards Martin
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