UKC

NEW ARTICLE: GUEST EDITORIAL: A Pembroke Saga

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 UKC Articles 26 Jun 2009
[Trevellan Pillar E4 6a, Pembroke, 3 kb]Following on from recent UKClimbing.com forum discussion, Ian Smith casts his mind back to a fixed gear issue in Pembroke that began some twenty years ago. He looks to the past to perhaps offer solutions, or at least ideas, for the future.

"Back in 1995 we didn't have internet forums, we couldn't, as Alan has been doing, widen the debate into a public area where all interested parties can, if they wish, make their contribution..."

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1942

 John2 26 Jun 2009
In reply to UKC Articles: That's a useful article, and I think that the solution decided on when the previous guide was published was the correct one. However, Ian describes a different problem from the one which we are currently addressing. It was decided at that time that any routes climbed with the aid of drilled gear were invalid and should be included in a form which made clear that they had not been ascended without drilled gear.

We are currently facing the issue of routes whose first ascent relied on fixed gear placed without the aid of a drill. Even though the consensus is that no further pegs should be placed on the Pembroke sea cliffs, no one disputes the validity of the first ascents of the routes in question since they were climbed according to the ethic that prevailed at the time. Undoubtedly many of these routes are now harder than when first ascended due to the rotting away of the pegs, but I do not think that the answer is to include their descriptions in a form that suggests that they have never received a legitimate ascent.

The real question is how can we identify the routes in which the deterioration of the fixed gear has affected the grade so that we can include a warning in the text?
 jkarran 26 Jun 2009
In reply to John2:

> The real question is how can we identify the routes in which the deterioration of the fixed gear has affected the grade so that we can include a warning in the text?

With a 'peg' route-symbol ( http://www.rockfax.com/databases/symbols.html ) and a note in the intro explaining the ethic and deterioration/unknown condition of the fixed gear?

jk
 jon 26 Jun 2009
In reply to UKC Articles:

I'd just like to point out that although TREVALLEN PILLAR (the route chosen to illustrate this thread/article, see OP) sports a fixed thread, it was not present on the First Ascent. Neither myself or Ian Parsons placed it - it appeared on an early repeat. It has always been a mystery to us... so, come on if it was you, it's time to own up!
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 27 Jun 2009
In reply to jon:

I was discussing it with Alan - we both thought that maybe it was time pegs were 'banned' on new routes in Pembroke. Impossible to enforce of course but it seams ridiculous to put routes up that are going to become unknown quantities/death traps some where down the line.

Chris
 jon 27 Jun 2009
In reply to Chris Craggs:

I quite agree Chris, they're time bombs. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to ban them - if someone does a new route, they WILL report it. If it has pegs in it then they can be found and removed. My point in the previous long thread on the subject was that it was unreasonable for anyone to expect Alan to report on the state of each and every one, and if alternative protection was available - especially with his deadline fast approaching.

But, back to Trevallen Pillar, the Rockfax implies that the E4 grade is for the second pitch, the crux on the first being well protected by the thread. However, when Ian and I made the first ascent, there was no thread (and pretty poor gear in that area) and the E4 applied equally to the first pitch. I actually mention it in the CC book first ascents list. I've got nothing against the thread in principle, (and would probably welcome it if I was to lead it now...!) but it's not the same undertaking it was when I led that pitch in 1981. I remember removing it once, and was criticised for tinkering with an established route - my accusor didn't know it was my route and the history of the thread. I'm just curious as to who placed it...?
 Jeff25 09 Jul 2009
In reply to John2:
> Even though the consensus is that no further pegs should be placed on the Pembroke sea cliffs, ...

Just to be clear is this the overwhelming conclusion from the Pembroke peg thread? That no further pegs, be they new OR replacement should be placed on Pembroke cliffs?

Thanks,
 John2 13 Jul 2009
In reply to Jeff25: I raised this question with some local activists yesterday. There is universal agreement that no new pegs should be placed, and on the whole people do not want to see existing pegs replaced even though this will dramatically affect the grade of a route such as Just another Day. People are getting out and climbing the routes in places such as Stennis Ford that employ fixed gear, and they are feeding back to us their thoughts on the grades.

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