This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
![[Another view of Rachael on Froth at Stoney Middleton, 3 kb]](http://img.ukclimbing.com/t/118917.jpg "[Another view of Rachael on Froth at Stoney Middleton, 3 kb]")
BMC organised crag clean up brings a sparkle to Peak limestone
Last Saturday a team of crag activists headed down to Stoney Middleton and set to work, carefully thinning vegetation and clearing access to several climbing areas.
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=48145
In reply to UKC News:
Many thanks to all concerned. Stoney is an excellent venue (if a harsh task master at times !).
Many thanks to all concerned. Stoney is an excellent venue (if a harsh task master at times !).
In reply to UKC News:
Excellent work. I tend not to have the BMC Forum switched on so sadly missed it - otherwise I would have been keen to help. Looks like a job well done, or at least well started!
Chris
Excellent work. I tend not to have the BMC Forum switched on so sadly missed it - otherwise I would have been keen to help. Looks like a job well done, or at least well started!
Chris
In reply to UKC News: Well done. Any thoughts on Shipley Glen trees getting a pruning?
I take it B52s and DDT weren't used?
Just hard graft.
Just hard graft.
In reply to all:
I went to minus 10 last night for a boulder and was really, really impressed with the work that has been done. Neil, Henry and volunteers were still hard at it. The tree felling and clearing of ivy has clearly been managed by experienced hands with the Aurora and Bitter Fingers suddenly bright, airy and open.
The base of the crag had got considerably more overgrown in the 15 years that I've been visiting, evidenced in recent times by the overgrown paths and tracks which used to take car parking but had been boulder blocked. These are now impassable even on foot due to the dense undergrowth and ivy.
Well done to the team. I'll be volunteering for the next clean up.
I went to minus 10 last night for a boulder and was really, really impressed with the work that has been done. Neil, Henry and volunteers were still hard at it. The tree felling and clearing of ivy has clearly been managed by experienced hands with the Aurora and Bitter Fingers suddenly bright, airy and open.
The base of the crag had got considerably more overgrown in the 15 years that I've been visiting, evidenced in recent times by the overgrown paths and tracks which used to take car parking but had been boulder blocked. These are now impassable even on foot due to the dense undergrowth and ivy.
Well done to the team. I'll be volunteering for the next clean up.
In reply to UKC News: It's certainly a big improvement, really looking forward to getting stuck into some of the old classic lines.
The volunteers hadn't finished tidying up when the photos were taken, give it another week and the crag will be looking even better. Good to see such positive coverage (of the news variety rather than the ivy).
The volunteers hadn't finished tidying up when the photos were taken, give it another week and the crag will be looking even better. Good to see such positive coverage (of the news variety rather than the ivy).
In reply to UKC News: Good to see the work that's been done and good to see the general acceptance of such sensible crag management measures, rather than the kneejerk up-in-arms reactions that mention of tree clearance often generate.
In reply to Boy:
Ha, did you see the other thread?
Whilst momentum is up I was considering trying to rid Windy Buttress of some of its fixed gear. I did Scoop Wall on Sunday and its practically a clip-up, you could easily do it with only one or two of your own pieces. The problem is all the tat is knackered and only one of the pegs is any good, but its very hard to ignore it and put your own kit in despite there being abundant placements.
Similarly on Our Father the tat in the cave has now grown into a lower-off, which is anchored to a terrible peg and an dodgy Elder bush, again surrounded by bomber cam/hex placements. My thoughts are folk are too trusting of these bits of crap and they would be better removed.
Any thoughts folks?
Ha, did you see the other thread?
Whilst momentum is up I was considering trying to rid Windy Buttress of some of its fixed gear. I did Scoop Wall on Sunday and its practically a clip-up, you could easily do it with only one or two of your own pieces. The problem is all the tat is knackered and only one of the pegs is any good, but its very hard to ignore it and put your own kit in despite there being abundant placements.
Similarly on Our Father the tat in the cave has now grown into a lower-off, which is anchored to a terrible peg and an dodgy Elder bush, again surrounded by bomber cam/hex placements. My thoughts are folk are too trusting of these bits of crap and they would be better removed.
Any thoughts folks?
In reply to UKC News: Very good work chaps. I shall be returning for yet another spanking...
In reply to Adam L: Remove them, they are a bit of an eye sore... but maybe replace some of the tat with a couple of good so I don't have a complete wobbler when I go for the on-sight in a couple of weeks
In reply to Adam L:
Good idea Adam. The Our Father belay could easily be mistaken for a lower off...
Good idea Adam. The Our Father belay could easily be mistaken for a lower off...
In reply to Adam L:
At the Pothole itself, there are a couple of mangy pegs which are equalised into a belay/lower off with some old tat but good maillons. Looks really horrible and there are good nuts available instead. A good case for cleaning these pegs out maybe - I'd be happy to do it but whats the consensus?
>
My thoughts are folk are too trusting of these bits of crap and they would be better removed.>
You may be right Adam. At Willersley last night, another team went off route and decided to ab as it was getting dark. One of them was about to ab off a single rotten peg before we offered a spare rope from our perch by the Pothole.At the Pothole itself, there are a couple of mangy pegs which are equalised into a belay/lower off with some old tat but good maillons. Looks really horrible and there are good nuts available instead. A good case for cleaning these pegs out maybe - I'd be happy to do it but whats the consensus?
In reply to Dan Middleton, BMC:
>One of them was about to ab off a single rotten peg
Scary!
If the pegs are dubious and you can get them out - I say do it.
Si
>One of them was about to ab off a single rotten peg
Scary!
If the pegs are dubious and you can get them out - I say do it.
Si
In reply to Adam L: Yes, I hadn't read the other thread!
I reckon go for it on the Windy Ledge gear clearance. You know I'm all for re-evaluating old fixed gear and these sound like simple cases where complete removal is the way to go. What do you think regards the old bolt on Circe, I can't recall how critical or not it was?
I reckon go for it on the Windy Ledge gear clearance. You know I'm all for re-evaluating old fixed gear and these sound like simple cases where complete removal is the way to go. What do you think regards the old bolt on Circe, I can't recall how critical or not it was?
In reply to Boy:
Its a few years since I was on it, but I think that one is pretty critical. All those E4s below The Flakes are pushing E5+ now with the mankiness/nonexistence of pegs.
At the mo I was just thinking of getting rid of anything near good placements, and leave stuff that isn't - the pegs in the break on Our Father for instance.
Its a few years since I was on it, but I think that one is pretty critical. All those E4s below The Flakes are pushing E5+ now with the mankiness/nonexistence of pegs.
At the mo I was just thinking of getting rid of anything near good placements, and leave stuff that isn't - the pegs in the break on Our Father for instance.
In reply to Simon:
This was terrifying to watch, as I left the crag i was shaking my head in disbelief. I cant imagine climbing with someone who didnt think their life was worth a measly £6 to back it up with a nut.
My opinion is that i'm not sure complete removal is the way to go, but would favour replacement of belays such as those at on the pot hole at willersley. In my view, it would have to be up to the person that removes the peg to ascertain if modern gear i.e small nuts or micro cams can sufficiently do a satisfactory job in the same position, think this will be ok in most instances. If not, replacing the peg with a new one might be more appropraite
Dan
This was terrifying to watch, as I left the crag i was shaking my head in disbelief. I cant imagine climbing with someone who didnt think their life was worth a measly £6 to back it up with a nut.
My opinion is that i'm not sure complete removal is the way to go, but would favour replacement of belays such as those at on the pot hole at willersley. In my view, it would have to be up to the person that removes the peg to ascertain if modern gear i.e small nuts or micro cams can sufficiently do a satisfactory job in the same position, think this will be ok in most instances. If not, replacing the peg with a new one might be more appropraite
Dan
In reply to Dan-gerMouse:
Yeah, that's the nub of the problem.
For me the tat lower-off on Our Father should go and folk should top out and ab or walk down. But I'm sure if I do that it will reappear and probably just as crap as before. So should I pre-empt them and try to get in something better? At the mo you can do Our Father by placing a wire off the ground then just taking four quickdraws and lowering off. Someone might get a shock...
I'm not in favour of convenience lower-offs like this though so I'll probably just ditch it. If you're leading E4 you should have to, as Sharples says, 'Deal with it'.
Yeah, that's the nub of the problem.
For me the tat lower-off on Our Father should go and folk should top out and ab or walk down. But I'm sure if I do that it will reappear and probably just as crap as before. So should I pre-empt them and try to get in something better? At the mo you can do Our Father by placing a wire off the ground then just taking four quickdraws and lowering off. Someone might get a shock...
I'm not in favour of convenience lower-offs like this though so I'll probably just ditch it. If you're leading E4 you should have to, as Sharples says, 'Deal with it'.
In reply to Adam L:
Seems like a bit of a mess at the moment. The whole 'get rid of fixed gear' thing seems to be spiraling. Some of justifiable and some a little less so. The dodgy belay that you refer to on Our Father - a peg and an elderberry bush... If you replace the peg and the slings you run the risk of being accused of replacing a crap peg with one that'll be crap in ten years. If you find a really good nut placement to back it up, and hammer it in, some bastard will spend a couple of hours getting it out as swag. If you remove it completely someone will be surprised when they arrive with just a krab... We all know what would be long lasting and solid, but it'd be smashed flat or unscrewed in hours... If you walk away and just say, well it's not up to me, then you'll be accused of something. No answers, just an observation (from the safety of being a long way away!).
I once cut out all the huge bunches of useless tat along the Cheetor girdle, much of which formed the belays/lower offs of the harder routes. I replaced it all with good 11mm rope and enormous maillons. Within days it had all been stolen. That was 20 years ago.
Seems like a bit of a mess at the moment. The whole 'get rid of fixed gear' thing seems to be spiraling. Some of justifiable and some a little less so. The dodgy belay that you refer to on Our Father - a peg and an elderberry bush... If you replace the peg and the slings you run the risk of being accused of replacing a crap peg with one that'll be crap in ten years. If you find a really good nut placement to back it up, and hammer it in, some bastard will spend a couple of hours getting it out as swag. If you remove it completely someone will be surprised when they arrive with just a krab... We all know what would be long lasting and solid, but it'd be smashed flat or unscrewed in hours... If you walk away and just say, well it's not up to me, then you'll be accused of something. No answers, just an observation (from the safety of being a long way away!).
I once cut out all the huge bunches of useless tat along the Cheetor girdle, much of which formed the belays/lower offs of the harder routes. I replaced it all with good 11mm rope and enormous maillons. Within days it had all been stolen. That was 20 years ago.
In reply to Adam L:
I probably do Our Father once each year and always lower off that dodgy set up. I probably wouldn't do it at all if you had to top it out, as for me, Stoney is a quick evening hit venue in April/May. Maybe stick a lower off in? It would be a very sketchy E5 without thepegs as the rock is brittle in that initial flake, and I suspect you would find it tricky protecting the huuuuge reach into the undercut. I'd go for one bolt and no other fixed gear tho. It's not a good enough route to be worth making it bolder.
As I've said before, I think Stoney is somewhere that would actually benefit from a few more bolts here and there, to replace the iron mongery. If you removed the bolt on Circe, you could feel very clever about leading a poxy, bouldery E5/6, rather than a poxy, bouldery E5. It's a good route to get your head together on at the start of the year. I doubt it is at the top of any aspiring E5 leader's tick list. As the crimp you stretch for on the crux is often dusty/slimey early in the season (i.e. it's an easy one to pop off), I doubt it would get climbed much without the bolt.
There are plenty of routes (e.g. Traffic Jam) that have no fixed gear and should stay that way. Contrary to the Wilson-esque mantra of climbing not turning into a 'convenience' sport, I think Stoney epitomises the convenience crag. It's location and weird perma-dry nature when everything else is wet.
I probably do Our Father once each year and always lower off that dodgy set up. I probably wouldn't do it at all if you had to top it out, as for me, Stoney is a quick evening hit venue in April/May. Maybe stick a lower off in? It would be a very sketchy E5 without thepegs as the rock is brittle in that initial flake, and I suspect you would find it tricky protecting the huuuuge reach into the undercut. I'd go for one bolt and no other fixed gear tho. It's not a good enough route to be worth making it bolder.
As I've said before, I think Stoney is somewhere that would actually benefit from a few more bolts here and there, to replace the iron mongery. If you removed the bolt on Circe, you could feel very clever about leading a poxy, bouldery E5/6, rather than a poxy, bouldery E5. It's a good route to get your head together on at the start of the year. I doubt it is at the top of any aspiring E5 leader's tick list. As the crimp you stretch for on the crux is often dusty/slimey early in the season (i.e. it's an easy one to pop off), I doubt it would get climbed much without the bolt.
There are plenty of routes (e.g. Traffic Jam) that have no fixed gear and should stay that way. Contrary to the Wilson-esque mantra of climbing not turning into a 'convenience' sport, I think Stoney epitomises the convenience crag. It's location and weird perma-dry nature when everything else is wet.
In reply to all those who put the effort in: Thank you.
In reply to Tom Briggs: if I remember correctly, the bolt on Circe was 'traditional', from an aid route. Which makes it a bit like natural pro...
(The original was replaced shortly after the first ascent with something slightly better, after an occasional poster here wrote "new bolt please" on the rock next to it!)
In reply to duncan:
Now who could that have been...?
>
>
> (The original was replaced shortly after the first ascent with something slightly better, after an occasional poster here wrote "new bolt please" on the rock next to it!)
> (The original was replaced shortly after the first ascent with something slightly better, after an occasional poster here wrote "new bolt please" on the rock next to it!)
Now who could that have been...?
In reply to UKC News: Well done one and all. Had a couple of very enjoyable evenings here two years ago and this crag will benefit from the tidying. If they napalmed the ground-level wasp's nest at the top of the tower of babel that'd be a bonus!
In reply to Adam L: Remove the gear if it's truly useless but remember that what may be unnecessary fixed gear for an E7 leader may be very welcome for an E2 leader. I also think a bit of tat adds character and history.
Regards
Mark
Regards
Mark
In reply to msjhes2:
Thats the nubbin of the debate!
Trusting fixed gear climbing at any grade dude!
si
> (In reply to Adam L) Remove the gear if it's truly useless but remember that what may be unnecessary fixed gear for an E7 leader may be very welcome for an E2 leader. I also think a bit of tat adds character and history.
>
>
Thats the nubbin of the debate!
Trusting fixed gear climbing at any grade dude!
si
In reply to jon and Tom B:
Actually the thought of putting in a bolt lower-off on Our Father didn't even occur to me and I'd be totally opposed to it. The cave has abundant natural gear. Whilst on the subject of bolts, a full on sport route has appeared between Kink and Kellogg. Anyone know anymore/ have an opinion? I'm not convinced it has a place on this buttress.
Tom, I suspect you use that lower off because its there, not due to much rational thought? Next time why not do the top pitch of Menopause to finish, can be easily run together as a superb pitch, or just do the original finish. Abbing off the tree at the top of Scoop Wall is hardly a big hassle.
Actually the thought of putting in a bolt lower-off on Our Father didn't even occur to me and I'd be totally opposed to it. The cave has abundant natural gear. Whilst on the subject of bolts, a full on sport route has appeared between Kink and Kellogg. Anyone know anymore/ have an opinion? I'm not convinced it has a place on this buttress.
Tom, I suspect you use that lower off because its there, not due to much rational thought? Next time why not do the top pitch of Menopause to finish, can be easily run together as a superb pitch, or just do the original finish. Abbing off the tree at the top of Scoop Wall is hardly a big hassle.
In reply to UKC News:
Overcame my avowed dislike of this crag to make a rare visit there last night and I have to say Neil and the team have done an excellant job - the place looks almost appealing. And so clean you can even see you own reflection in the holds !
And well done to Adam for removing all that manky old tat off Scoop Wall. Just let me know when you've put some fresh threads in and I might have a go at it
Overcame my avowed dislike of this crag to make a rare visit there last night and I have to say Neil and the team have done an excellant job - the place looks almost appealing. And so clean you can even see you own reflection in the holds !
And well done to Adam for removing all that manky old tat off Scoop Wall. Just let me know when you've put some fresh threads in and I might have a go at it
In reply to Adam L:
That's a good idea actually. That top pitch of Menopause always looks a bit neglected, but maybe it's had traffic recently?
> (In reply to jon and Tom B)
>
> Next time why not do the top pitch of Menopause to finish, can be easily run together as a superb pitch, or just do the original finish.
>
> Next time why not do the top pitch of Menopause to finish, can be easily run together as a superb pitch, or just do the original finish.
That's a good idea actually. That top pitch of Menopause always looks a bit neglected, but maybe it's had traffic recently?
In reply to Tom Briggs:
Its some of the best rock on the buttress, with perfect gear including a brand new thread as of yesterday. No signs of neglect. The first pitch is a bit pokey mind...
Chris, I didn't remove anything important from Scoop Wall, just some ancient tat from some rather weak looking threads. The best one I replaced. At pretty much any point you can just bang a cam, it hasn't got harder, in fact I'd say its got safer because you haven't got the option of trusting mank. The pegs are all still in, I gave the one on the crux a tap, and although its a downward-pointing placement it *seems* okay. Good gear either side a foot lower.
Its some of the best rock on the buttress, with perfect gear including a brand new thread as of yesterday. No signs of neglect. The first pitch is a bit pokey mind...
Chris, I didn't remove anything important from Scoop Wall, just some ancient tat from some rather weak looking threads. The best one I replaced. At pretty much any point you can just bang a cam, it hasn't got harder, in fact I'd say its got safer because you haven't got the option of trusting mank. The pegs are all still in, I gave the one on the crux a tap, and although its a downward-pointing placement it *seems* okay. Good gear either side a foot lower.
In reply to Adam L: Good job, but can I still claim an on-sight when I do it now I've just read your post!?
In reply to Adam L:
Morally I know you're right. Purer climbing, less visual impact. But there's something so reassuring about seeing a line of in-situ pro on a line which would be so close to my limit that "clip and go" would be my only chance of success. Not sure if I'd trust a cam on limestone any more than old tat.
But then again there's nothing to stop me abbing down and pre-placing all the gear I want....or just sticking to Horseshoe !
Morally I know you're right. Purer climbing, less visual impact. But there's something so reassuring about seeing a line of in-situ pro on a line which would be so close to my limit that "clip and go" would be my only chance of success. Not sure if I'd trust a cam on limestone any more than old tat.
But then again there's nothing to stop me abbing down and pre-placing all the gear I want....or just sticking to Horseshoe !
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I guess that was the reason for taking it out! Being lured up a route by loads of insitu gear, only to find its all crap, isn't my idea of reassuring! The cam placements are bomber, mostly in hand-jam cracks. I reckon you'll be fine...
I guess that was the reason for taking it out! Being lured up a route by loads of insitu gear, only to find its all crap, isn't my idea of reassuring! The cam placements are bomber, mostly in hand-jam cracks. I reckon you'll be fine...
In reply to UKC News:
Oh no! Does this all mean that the crag will become busy again 20 years ago it used to be busy but in recent years been lovely peaceful. Well done to the team.
Paul
Oh no! Does this all mean that the crag will become busy again 20 years ago it used to be busy but in recent years been lovely peaceful. Well done to the team.
Paul
In reply to Adam L:
I was also surprised to see a line of bolts there...although the responses to my post said they were new I'd never noticed then before, and the hangers looked quite shiny...odd.
> (In reply to jon and Tom B)
> Whilst on the subject of bolts, a full on sport route has appeared between Kink and Kellogg. Anyone know anymore/ have an opinion? I'm not convinced it has a place on this buttress.
>
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=361385&v=1#x5266520> Whilst on the subject of bolts, a full on sport route has appeared between Kink and Kellogg. Anyone know anymore/ have an opinion? I'm not convinced it has a place on this buttress.
>
I was also surprised to see a line of bolts there...although the responses to my post said they were new I'd never noticed then before, and the hangers looked quite shiny...odd.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...