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Am really pleased that Johnny has decided to climb a route in the pass, he was afterall a master both on gritstone and the Welsh Ryolite. It's great to see him back and who knows he may have a few lines left out there, for us do ponder on once more.
In reply to halo: It's good to see. Stone Monkey totally encapsulated me despite looking like they had borrowed U2's clothes for filming.
In reply to halo:
I did my first E1 a couple of weeks ago on a route that JD has hopped up no handed. Incredible talent and it'll be great to see him back.
I did my first E1 a couple of weeks ago on a route that JD has hopped up no handed. Incredible talent and it'll be great to see him back.
In reply to tommyzero: Stone Monkey was probably the second climbing film I ever watched.
I would repeatedly watch it infront of the girlfriend in vain, trying to convince her that climbing was a natural aspect missing from our lives.
Needless to say we split up, but i still have my treasured copy of Johnny Dawes film. Whoop!
I would repeatedly watch it infront of the girlfriend in vain, trying to convince her that climbing was a natural aspect missing from our lives.
Needless to say we split up, but i still have my treasured copy of Johnny Dawes film. Whoop!
In reply to halo:
Am also delighted to see JD back where he belongs. A couple of years ago I saw him & he was looking decidedly porky (I'm sure he won't mind ne saying that) & I sadly thought that may be it from him, but so glad to see him back at the top ....
Am also delighted to see JD back where he belongs. A couple of years ago I saw him & he was looking decidedly porky (I'm sure he won't mind ne saying that) & I sadly thought that may be it from him, but so glad to see him back at the top ....
In reply to Bahhhhumbug: Not wanting to rain on this parade, because it's good to hear that Johnny is still doing what he does best (daring precarious routes), but his 'comeback' hardly 'puts him back at the top'?
In reply to Marc C:
Yes, Marc, we're all aware that Johnny's only getting his spell in the sun due to your recent back injury but don't labour the point, hey?
>
> ... but his 'comeback' hardly 'puts him back at the top'?
> ... but his 'comeback' hardly 'puts him back at the top'?
Yes, Marc, we're all aware that Johnny's only getting his spell in the sun due to your recent back injury but don't labour the point, hey?
In reply to halo: Johnny Dawes IS da man!
In reply to Marc C:
But if he had climbed a 12m E10 on grit then it would be raining gold dust at his parade?
(and yes, before in common UKC style someone attacks me for having an opinion - I am aware of the routes previously put up but Dawes on grit)
But if he had climbed a 12m E10 on grit then it would be raining gold dust at his parade?
(and yes, before in common UKC style someone attacks me for having an opinion - I am aware of the routes previously put up but Dawes on grit)
In reply to margie:
maybe, what with E10 begin cutting edge and all, and E6 onsight being a little bit less than cutting edge.
It's great to hear that the legend is still out there putting up adventures which I can gladly avoid. I am slightly baffled by the stir it's made. It was after all a relatively minor addition at a reasonable grade. I guess it shows the love and esteem still held for Johnny after all these years, bless him.
I once had a lovely day out at stanage plantation with young Master Dawes. He quickly became bored of trying to do deliverance one-handed, and took me on a tour of the boulders. Instead of showing me problems, he gave me a guided tour of static positions he could hold on the boulders - "look, I can hang these two slopers. Can you pull on here?". At the time I think he thought it was the future of bouldering...
maybe, what with E10 begin cutting edge and all, and E6 onsight being a little bit less than cutting edge.
It's great to hear that the legend is still out there putting up adventures which I can gladly avoid. I am slightly baffled by the stir it's made. It was after all a relatively minor addition at a reasonable grade. I guess it shows the love and esteem still held for Johnny after all these years, bless him.
I once had a lovely day out at stanage plantation with young Master Dawes. He quickly became bored of trying to do deliverance one-handed, and took me on a tour of the boulders. Instead of showing me problems, he gave me a guided tour of static positions he could hold on the boulders - "look, I can hang these two slopers. Can you pull on here?". At the time I think he thought it was the future of bouldering...
In reply to all:
I think an E6 onsight of a new route on a mountain crag is pretty impressive. E10 is cutting edge, but it is also currently a theoretical grade where as an E7 onsight is still cutting edge (isn't it??) and thats when it's an established route that has been documented.
And the fact that it's JD is always gonna stir interest...
Well done that man
I think an E6 onsight of a new route on a mountain crag is pretty impressive. E10 is cutting edge, but it is also currently a theoretical grade where as an E7 onsight is still cutting edge (isn't it??) and thats when it's an established route that has been documented.
And the fact that it's JD is always gonna stir interest...
Well done that man
In reply to SGD:
A few E8s have been onsighted, something at Dove Crag by Birkett, Gaia by a visiting American (although he watched hard grit first!). E7 onsight is still cutting edge tho, and to onsight an E6 without even knowing it would turn out to be an E6 is very impressive.
Hope we'll see some more new routes from him.
A few E8s have been onsighted, something at Dove Crag by Birkett, Gaia by a visiting American (although he watched hard grit first!). E7 onsight is still cutting edge tho, and to onsight an E6 without even knowing it would turn out to be an E6 is very impressive.
Hope we'll see some more new routes from him.
In reply to Jimbo C:
My Piano at Nesscliff.
> A few E8s have been onsighted, something at Dove Crag by Birkett
My Piano at Nesscliff.
In reply to halo: The concept of E7 onsite as cutting edge makes me wonder how far we've progressed in the last 15 years. In Allidie in the burren here in ireland george smith put up the first ascent onsite of very big springs in 1991 (i think, don't have my guidebook to hand but it was definitely early in the 90's). According to the UKC logbook it's graded as E6 but in the latest guide here it's been regraded E7.
Yet still to this day E7 onsite is seen as cutting edge. Were climbers harder 15 years ago or did the cutting edge climbers get caught up with headpointing the very big numbers in the quest for publicity & sponsorship? As it seems to me that it's only recently that onsite climbing has become the cutting edge once again?
Yet still to this day E7 onsite is seen as cutting edge. Were climbers harder 15 years ago or did the cutting edge climbers get caught up with headpointing the very big numbers in the quest for publicity & sponsorship? As it seems to me that it's only recently that onsite climbing has become the cutting edge once again?
In reply to SGD: Couldn't agree more one thing you can be sure of with JD, is his uncanny ability to know how to grade a route. Nuff said.
In reply to halo:
>... is his uncanny ability to know how to grade a route...
Janus E7 7a - "Because the grooves look like two sevens".
>... is his uncanny ability to know how to grade a route...
Janus E7 7a - "Because the grooves look like two sevens".
In reply to Frank4short:
Doesnt' Very Big Springs have pegs in it, which presumably he will have placed on abb? Also, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a terminology thing and he did it 'old school onsight' i.e. new school ground up wih no beta.. except not ground up if he'd abbed it obviously. (Or, if it's in the new guide it might just be wrong - there's a few things in there that are)
Doesnt' Very Big Springs have pegs in it, which presumably he will have placed on abb? Also, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a terminology thing and he did it 'old school onsight' i.e. new school ground up wih no beta.. except not ground up if he'd abbed it obviously. (Or, if it's in the new guide it might just be wrong - there's a few things in there that are)
In reply to Frank4short: The main thing is that in REALITY very few climbers are capable or willing to on-sight E6 or harder. To do this in " the mountains" is even more impressive. Good luck with your come-back Mr Dawes. He has inspired so many climbers into the sport over the years.
In reply to halo: Does anyone think a distinction should be made for a route being and onsight first ascent than an onsight repeat. Strikes me as the added element of the unknown should add kudos to such an ascent...
I have no experience of this but out of interest when you start getting in to the big E's, do you start getting trick moves, hidden holds and quirky protection that makes an onsight practically/physically impossible?
In reply to Removed User:
Absolutely. If you're climbing at the top end (I'm not!) and onsighting a first ascent, you need to take a whole rack for a start, as you won't know what gear placements there are and the holds may be dirty (not a problem for a 4c move but a bit scary for a dynamic 6c).
If you've abbed the route, cleaned potential holds and got the gear dialled in, it's considerably safer, whilst not being technically any easier.
> (In reply to halo) Does anyone think a distinction should be made for a route being and onsight first ascent than an onsight repeat. Strikes me as the added element of the unknown should add kudos to such an ascent...
Absolutely. If you're climbing at the top end (I'm not!) and onsighting a first ascent, you need to take a whole rack for a start, as you won't know what gear placements there are and the holds may be dirty (not a problem for a 4c move but a bit scary for a dynamic 6c).
If you've abbed the route, cleaned potential holds and got the gear dialled in, it's considerably safer, whilst not being technically any easier.
In reply to teflonpete: If you have done the route onsight you have not abbed the route, cleaned the holds, or figured out the gear. This is regardless of it being an FA or a repeat.
I am more on about the psychological differences between knowing a grade from a guidebook prior to embarking, and only being able to guess a grade from looking at the line.
I am more on about the psychological differences between knowing a grade from a guidebook prior to embarking, and only being able to guess a grade from looking at the line.
In reply to Removed User: I agree, 1st ascent onsight must be an incredible experience and the pychological aspects of truely stepping in to the unknown are truely mind boggling to me....I find it bad enough stepping round a blind corner on a route even though the guide book has told me thats were I'm going and what to expect.
i love johnny dawes, any one that can get away with chain smoking rollies and harshing up an e6 is a winner in my book.
In reply to Removed User:
Sorry, Had a numpty moment. Big, big kudos for doing an onsight FA. Huge head game not knowing what sort of move you might come up against or how far above meaningful gear, especially long mountain routes where you might only be able to see a line from a distance. Once the FAs been done and the route is repeated, the repeat, whilst it may be climbed on sight is still a semi known quantity that the climber should be able to judge before he / she starts, is within their capabilities based on the grade.
>
> I am more on about the psychological differences between knowing a grade from a guidebook prior to embarking, and only being able to guess a grade from looking at the line.
> I am more on about the psychological differences between knowing a grade from a guidebook prior to embarking, and only being able to guess a grade from looking at the line.
Sorry, Had a numpty moment. Big, big kudos for doing an onsight FA. Huge head game not knowing what sort of move you might come up against or how far above meaningful gear, especially long mountain routes where you might only be able to see a line from a distance. Once the FAs been done and the route is repeated, the repeat, whilst it may be climbed on sight is still a semi known quantity that the climber should be able to judge before he / she starts, is within their capabilities based on the grade.
In reply to hiu068:
Harshing?
You'll have to teach me that one
> i love johnny dawes, any one that can get away with chain smoking rollies and harshing up an e6 is a winner in my book.
Harshing?
You'll have to teach me that one
In reply to Marc C:
"...his 'comeback' hardly 'puts him back at the top'?"
Top of what though? I'd say he could still be the top of looking at climbing in a usefully different way. He was never the strongest, fittest etc but still achieved amazing things. As such I see it as very good news for climbing if his focus is back more in our direction.
"...his 'comeback' hardly 'puts him back at the top'?"
Top of what though? I'd say he could still be the top of looking at climbing in a usefully different way. He was never the strongest, fittest etc but still achieved amazing things. As such I see it as very good news for climbing if his focus is back more in our direction.
In reply to Offwidth: I agree that JD brings a different perspective and approach. I was quoting the original poster's phrase - and, I think he was using it more specifically to refer to 'being a leading climber' or 'at the cutting edge' of standards. IMO an E6 (on-sight or not) doesn't really frighten the top (THERE I've used it again!) guys.
In reply to Offwidth: btw with my back injury persisting, I'd be glad to get to the TOP of anything these days!
In reply to Marc C: Maybe you should consider a career in academia instead
In reply to Frank4short:
It's quite possible advances haven't been as big as they appear. Grades have gone up of course, but sometimes at the expense of style. With the exception of Gaia's recent onsight (or flash) many ascents don't really improve on Johnny's style; from what I read he only pre-practised entering the groove, the rest was done on lead. I'm willing to be contradicted here of course...
Perhaps an E6 onsight FA on a mountain crag WOULD be big news if we cared about that sort of thing. Unfortunately according to the mags we care more about pure technical difficulty, whatever the style. It's easier to compare for a start.
The Dawes is clearly following his own lights, something which IMO should command respect in itself.
> (In reply to halo) The concept of E7 onsite as cutting edge makes me wonder how far we've progressed in the last 15 years.
It's quite possible advances haven't been as big as they appear. Grades have gone up of course, but sometimes at the expense of style. With the exception of Gaia's recent onsight (or flash) many ascents don't really improve on Johnny's style; from what I read he only pre-practised entering the groove, the rest was done on lead. I'm willing to be contradicted here of course...
Perhaps an E6 onsight FA on a mountain crag WOULD be big news if we cared about that sort of thing. Unfortunately according to the mags we care more about pure technical difficulty, whatever the style. It's easier to compare for a start.
The Dawes is clearly following his own lights, something which IMO should command respect in itself.
In reply to halo:
Much of this discussion is pointless and divisive.
There are many climbers out there, and a number who have gained publicity and also a "status" within the climbing world. I have watched many climbing films and DVDs, and have learned that some incredible climbers simply do not inspire me at all. Johnny Dawes on the other had has made me want to rush outside with my stickies at once and find the nearest bit of rock to climb. That has to do with his style, his method and his attitude, and NOTHING to do with the grade of his climbing.
You only need to watch the sequences of him climbing The Quarryman to get an understanding of that inspiration.
I personally feel that it is up to Johnny himself as to what he wants to climb, and for people to engage in a discussion about whether or not he is "at the top" because of his new E6 is simply masturbation on their part.
Johnny is a GENUINE climbing legend, and he remains one of my major inspirations: Kirkus, Byne, Brown, Dawes, Dunne...
Much of this discussion is pointless and divisive.
There are many climbers out there, and a number who have gained publicity and also a "status" within the climbing world. I have watched many climbing films and DVDs, and have learned that some incredible climbers simply do not inspire me at all. Johnny Dawes on the other had has made me want to rush outside with my stickies at once and find the nearest bit of rock to climb. That has to do with his style, his method and his attitude, and NOTHING to do with the grade of his climbing.
You only need to watch the sequences of him climbing The Quarryman to get an understanding of that inspiration.
I personally feel that it is up to Johnny himself as to what he wants to climb, and for people to engage in a discussion about whether or not he is "at the top" because of his new E6 is simply masturbation on their part.
Johnny is a GENUINE climbing legend, and he remains one of my major inspirations: Kirkus, Byne, Brown, Dawes, Dunne...
Comeback?
I never thought me went away!
I never thought me went away!
Goes Johnny see it as a comeback, or was he just out climbing? I really suspect it's the latter.
In reply to Rampikino: well said, comeback indeed.
In reply to Rampikino: Nice though you join in the discussion, that is quite a contradiction.
In reply to halo:
Not really - I didn't discuss whether or not he is a "top climber". No contradiction at all. Read the post again.
Not really - I didn't discuss whether or not he is a "top climber". No contradiction at all. Read the post again.
In reply to halo: Interesting interview with JD here
http://www.climbing.com/community/perspective/dawes/
http://www.climbing.com/community/perspective/dawes/
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