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![[Steve McClure. © Tim Glasby, 5 kb]](http://img.ukclimbing.com/t/126034.jpg "[Steve McClure. © Tim Glasby, 5 kb]")
On a weeks holiday at Rodellar in Spain Steve McClure has finally achieved what he has been working toward for a while, an onsight ascent of an 8c sport climb.Success came on a route called Amistad, a 30m 25 degree overhanging wall to a steep bulging boulder problem that Steve hit right, although he did tell us he was close to falling off.
It's been an amazing year so far for Steve McClure.
REPORT UPDATED TODAY AFTER SOME CONTROVERSY ABOUT A TREE HOLD
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49602
In reply to UKC News: Get in Steve!!!
In reply to UKC News:
well done...amazing effort!
well done...amazing effort!
In reply to UKC News: Amazingly awesome!
In reply to UKC News: Wow, well done Steve
In reply to UKC News:
and by the way that is a hell of a lot of hard climbing to fit in a 1 week trip.
and by the way that is a hell of a lot of hard climbing to fit in a 1 week trip.
In reply to UKC News:
Brilliant briliant news!.
Brilliant briliant news!.
In reply to UKC News: Are we all reading the same quote, or am i just an idiot?
In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll:
I read it like that too.
It reads like he failed to do the 8c but refers to a failure on an 8c a few weeks previously.
Slightly confusing.
I read it like that too.
It reads like he failed to do the 8c but refers to a failure on an 8c a few weeks previously.
Slightly confusing.
In reply to AndyM-LVB:
The route he narrowly failed to onsight was defo 8c. The route he actually onsighted he felt was probably not 8c, really.
The route he narrowly failed to onsight was defo 8c. The route he actually onsighted he felt was probably not 8c, really.
In reply to Simon Lee:
I think he means that to be able to say that you can onsight 8c, you need to onsight several of them. It is just his usual high standards for himself and his modesty given his outstanding level of achievement.
> (In reply to AndyM-LVB)
>
> The route he narrowly failed to onsight was defo 8c. The route he actually onsighted he felt was probably not 8c, really.
>
> The route he narrowly failed to onsight was defo 8c. The route he actually onsighted he felt was probably not 8c, really.
I think he means that to be able to say that you can onsight 8c, you need to onsight several of them. It is just his usual high standards for himself and his modesty given his outstanding level of achievement.
In reply to UKC News:
I think this is the missing paragraph, c&p'd from the petzl site, that explains it:
"A few days later and of course the pain is gone. New movement over new routes clearing the mind. But the memory is there. A seed planted that says ‘work hard’ rather than ‘work is over’. I’d have sat back for sure, but now I was still pushing. I opted for another 8c. ‘Amistad’. It looked bouldery and it was. Maybe 8a into a hard section over a short roof. I was nearly off, but it felt easier. Too easy for 8c maybe? The guide said it was 8c, the locals said it was. Four repeaters confirmed the grade. I wasn’t sure. The cigars didn’t get passed round. I’m still not in the gang. But I had a taste and I know I’m allowed in. I just need to put in some work and make a few gains. It might hurt, but it will be worth it!"
I think this is the missing paragraph, c&p'd from the petzl site, that explains it:
"A few days later and of course the pain is gone. New movement over new routes clearing the mind. But the memory is there. A seed planted that says ‘work hard’ rather than ‘work is over’. I’d have sat back for sure, but now I was still pushing. I opted for another 8c. ‘Amistad’. It looked bouldery and it was. Maybe 8a into a hard section over a short roof. I was nearly off, but it felt easier. Too easy for 8c maybe? The guide said it was 8c, the locals said it was. Four repeaters confirmed the grade. I wasn’t sure. The cigars didn’t get passed round. I’m still not in the gang. But I had a taste and I know I’m allowed in. I just need to put in some work and make a few gains. It might hurt, but it will be worth it!"
In reply to UKC News: Fraser:
Yes I was just going on what Steve told me on Sunday. I have just read the article and I think Mick has got the wrong end of the stick of what Steve is after which is an 8c onsight of a route that isn't potentially overgraded at 8c. If a route like that turns out later to be overgraded by consensus then its an 8b+ onsight.
You have to admire his honesty and frankness and disclosure - I'm sure presented with the same circumstance some/most other professional climbers would stay quiet and take the tick and kudos even if they had doubts.
Its great he is psyched for this big goal especially as there isnt any obvious sport goals left for him in the UK.
Yes I was just going on what Steve told me on Sunday. I have just read the article and I think Mick has got the wrong end of the stick of what Steve is after which is an 8c onsight of a route that isn't potentially overgraded at 8c. If a route like that turns out later to be overgraded by consensus then its an 8b+ onsight.
You have to admire his honesty and frankness and disclosure - I'm sure presented with the same circumstance some/most other professional climbers would stay quiet and take the tick and kudos even if they had doubts.
Its great he is psyched for this big goal especially as there isnt any obvious sport goals left for him in the UK.
In reply to Simon Lee:
"But, has Steve McClure joined the 8c onsight club?
Steve claims that he is still not in the gang although the guidebook says 8c and the four people who have repeated the route say 8c. But that's not good enough for Steve. Just like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber until they had consolidated at the grade so it is with McClure. Steve said that his next goal is to onsight an 8c route that has a bigger consensus of repeats that agree on the grade.
Talking to UKClimbing.com last night and today he told us that now he has eight 8b+ onsight ascents he feels he is getting solid at that level. He usually onsights 8a's and 8a+'s and gets many 8b's. But to call himself an 8c onsighter he wants to do more 8c onsights."
> (In reply to UKC News) Fraser:
>
> Yes I was just going on what Steve told me on Sunday. I have just read the article and I think Mick has got the wrong end of the stick of what Steve is after
>
> Yes I was just going on what Steve told me on Sunday. I have just read the article and I think Mick has got the wrong end of the stick of what Steve is after
"But, has Steve McClure joined the 8c onsight club?
Steve claims that he is still not in the gang although the guidebook says 8c and the four people who have repeated the route say 8c. But that's not good enough for Steve. Just like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber until they had consolidated at the grade so it is with McClure. Steve said that his next goal is to onsight an 8c route that has a bigger consensus of repeats that agree on the grade.
Talking to UKClimbing.com last night and today he told us that now he has eight 8b+ onsight ascents he feels he is getting solid at that level. He usually onsights 8a's and 8a+'s and gets many 8b's. But to call himself an 8c onsighter he wants to do more 8c onsights."
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: : Just like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber until they had consolidated at the grade so it is with McClure.
No a better analogy is that its more like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber because it felt more like a HS compared to other VS's they had followed or dogged.
Proper membership of the club is onsighting an 8c that is a bonafide 8c.
Steve has redpointed enough 8c's to judge if the grade is suspect. However, it maybe that this particular one suited him.
No a better analogy is that its more like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber because it felt more like a HS compared to other VS's they had followed or dogged.
Proper membership of the club is onsighting an 8c that is a bonafide 8c.
Steve has redpointed enough 8c's to judge if the grade is suspect. However, it maybe that this particular one suited him.
In reply to UKC News: Just like a climber who has done one VS and wouldn't call themselves a VS climber until they had consolidated at the grade so it is with McClure.
I thought this was inserted into the news report to justify the inevitable armchair comments.
I thought this was inserted into the news report to justify the inevitable armchair comments.
In reply to UKC News: There are really two issues here. One's first 8c and joining the 8c club, or any other grade club. One swallow does not a summer make. You have joined a grade club when you have climbed several of the grade routes, say 5, short and long. But the joy of doing your first must be always there, the high point and the base level.
Anyway how do we know the route is not 8c. How can Steve know? We are all looking for a magical moment of power and flow when everthing seems easy, though you know it was not. That is what we seek not boring statistics and judgements.
Anyway how do we know the route is not 8c. How can Steve know? We are all looking for a magical moment of power and flow when everthing seems easy, though you know it was not. That is what we seek not boring statistics and judgements.
In reply to Oliver Hill:
You only have to have one shag at 5,280 feet to join the Mile High Club but I expect more have to be required to call yourself a Mile High Shagger.
You only have to have one shag at 5,280 feet to join the Mile High Club but I expect more have to be required to call yourself a Mile High Shagger.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Absolutely agree.
> (In reply to UKC News) Fraser:
> You have to admire his honesty and frankness and disclosure - I'm sure presented with the same circumstance some/most other professional climbers would stay quiet and take the tick and kudos even if they had doubts.
Absolutely agree.
In reply to UKC News: hes getting a bit of bad press over on 8a at the mo. Being accused of almost cheating, using a twig or something. suprised no one on here has mentioned it yet.
In reply to sihills: Was going to post, seems like from what has been written on 8a.nu and his blog that others have done it using the twig (not tree) if you follow the chalked holds that the twig is part of it.
Know I have done routes in Spain with included foliage, one in particular where you get a great hands off rest sitting in a tree 3/4 of the way up.
Know I have done routes in Spain with included foliage, one in particular where you get a great hands off rest sitting in a tree 3/4 of the way up.
In reply to sihills:
You can take the boy out of The Tor but you can't take The Tor out of the boy!
> Being accused of ... using a twig or something.
You can take the boy out of The Tor but you can't take The Tor out of the boy!
In reply to andy farnell:
I think the last post sums it up best:
"@ Johan mycket bra och nyanserat inlagg. Alltid massa snack fran folk som inte gjort leden. Spontant har jag svart att se "trad" vaxa pa en 8c. Av de leder jag testat i den 8e graden har det aldrig funnits den typen av vegitation. Sjalv har jag aldrig sett eller varit dar leden ligger."
Translation here:
"Johan very good and nuance plea. Always mass snack stamp people as nots done be in charge. Off the cuff have I black that watch " am threading " wax pa a 8c. Of they administrator self testator in the 8e degrees has it never funnits the the type of vegitation. Wrap have I never looking ors wherein dar be in charge am laying."
Couldn't have put it better myself.
I think the last post sums it up best:
"@ Johan mycket bra och nyanserat inlagg. Alltid massa snack fran folk som inte gjort leden. Spontant har jag svart att se "trad" vaxa pa en 8c. Av de leder jag testat i den 8e graden har det aldrig funnits den typen av vegitation. Sjalv har jag aldrig sett eller varit dar leden ligger."
Translation here:
"Johan very good and nuance plea. Always mass snack stamp people as nots done be in charge. Off the cuff have I black that watch " am threading " wax pa a 8c. Of they administrator self testator in the 8e degrees has it never funnits the the type of vegitation. Wrap have I never looking ors wherein dar be in charge am laying."
Couldn't have put it better myself.
In reply to Serpico: Also looks like Tom Bolger has climbed his first 9a
In reply to Jon Redshaw:
Tim Bolger apparently.
> (In reply to Serpico) Also looks like Tom Bolger has climbed his first 9a
Tim Bolger apparently.
In reply to John Redshaw: Cheers John! 8a.nu is good for some stuff....
In reply to sihills:
For this ascent to somehow 'not count' in that strange 8a.nu parallel universe he'd have needed to know in advance that the twig was "out" ...
Doesn't this makes an onsight without twig a logical impossibility?
For this ascent to somehow 'not count' in that strange 8a.nu parallel universe he'd have needed to know in advance that the twig was "out" ...
Doesn't this makes an onsight without twig a logical impossibility?
In reply to sihills:
Funnily enough he criticised 8a.nu in his last column for Climb magazine. I wonder if this is their way of getting revenge?
Funnily enough he criticised 8a.nu in his last column for Climb magazine. I wonder if this is their way of getting revenge?
In reply to Brendan:
He's not the only one to criticise 8a.nu. Most of the European climbing websites and magazines have little to do with that website.
8a.nu shows the utmost disrespect to climbers. It's owner Jens Larssen is as mad as a hatter. It's news editor quit because of Jen's rantings and ignorance.
It's popularity is based on fictitious rankings of climbers achievements.
It's a real shame because it could be so good. It's news feed is good but the content must be treated with a pinch of salt.
M
> (In reply to sihills)
> Funnily enough he criticised 8a.nu in his last column for Climb magazine. I wonder if this is their way of getting revenge?
> Funnily enough he criticised 8a.nu in his last column for Climb magazine. I wonder if this is their way of getting revenge?
He's not the only one to criticise 8a.nu. Most of the European climbing websites and magazines have little to do with that website.
8a.nu shows the utmost disrespect to climbers. It's owner Jens Larssen is as mad as a hatter. It's news editor quit because of Jen's rantings and ignorance.
It's popularity is based on fictitious rankings of climbers achievements.
It's a real shame because it could be so good. It's news feed is good but the content must be treated with a pinch of salt.
M
In reply to Silum:
As a freak show, it is good entertainment.
> (In reply to Jon Redshaw)
>
> Might have to visit 8a a little more...hmmm
>
> Might have to visit 8a a little more...hmmm
As a freak show, it is good entertainment.
In reply to flaneur:
Looks like the ascent does count, but only as a 7c+ onsight.
Someone at 8a commented the following:
Well, I really admire Steve and I think that he's gonna reach that on-sight level soon, but I've got to clarify some things which the people who watched his ascent e-mailed me:
- The route is like 7c+ more or less to the point where you find the crux. This crux is a bouldery section which gives the route the 8c grade.
- In the viewers words "Steve didn't touch any single hold of the crux section. He crossed to the right, grabbed the tree, climbed it up for then reaching the jug which means the end of the crux and clipped the anchor"
Looks like the ascent does count, but only as a 7c+ onsight.
Someone at 8a commented the following:
Well, I really admire Steve and I think that he's gonna reach that on-sight level soon, but I've got to clarify some things which the people who watched his ascent e-mailed me:
- The route is like 7c+ more or less to the point where you find the crux. This crux is a bouldery section which gives the route the 8c grade.
- In the viewers words "Steve didn't touch any single hold of the crux section. He crossed to the right, grabbed the tree, climbed it up for then reaching the jug which means the end of the crux and clipped the anchor"
In reply to BamBam:
Be wary of quoting anything off 8a.nu Bam, Bam. Even the news reports are anonymous.
Be wary of quoting anything off 8a.nu Bam, Bam. Even the news reports are anonymous.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Just talked to Steve. Yes he used a part of the tree as it was covered in chalk and part of the route. Using it doesn't avoid the crux or any of the climbing, it doesn't by pass the line of the route, you make no deviation by using it. He was climbing onsight, no beta
He's not really bothered. Take points off his fictitious 8a.nu ranking, call him up in front of the 8a.nu court headed by King of Climbing Larssen.
Steve seemed really bemused by it all and will continue raising his game.
Mick
Just talked to Steve. Yes he used a part of the tree as it was covered in chalk and part of the route. Using it doesn't avoid the crux or any of the climbing, it doesn't by pass the line of the route, you make no deviation by using it. He was climbing onsight, no beta
He's not really bothered. Take points off his fictitious 8a.nu ranking, call him up in front of the 8a.nu court headed by King of Climbing Larssen.
Steve seemed really bemused by it all and will continue raising his game.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Yeah, I remember they claimed Barnebe Fernandez hadn't climbed one of his routes without giving him a right to reply, pretty shocking considering they didn't seem to have done any research whatsoever beforehand.
The website's worth reading for your spats with Jens though. Seconds out, round 12!
Yeah, I remember they claimed Barnebe Fernandez hadn't climbed one of his routes without giving him a right to reply, pretty shocking considering they didn't seem to have done any research whatsoever beforehand.
The website's worth reading for your spats with Jens though. Seconds out, round 12!
In reply to flaneur:
this holds true for any "eliminant" route.
for the particular case of a tree not allowed, there is a brilliant solution : mention it in the name.
e.g.
http://bleau.info/beorlots/14280.html
> (In reply to sihills)
>
> For this ascent to somehow 'not count' in that strange 8a.nu parallel universe he'd have needed to know in advance that the twig was "out" ...
>
> Doesn't this makes an onsight without twig a logical impossibility?
>
> For this ascent to somehow 'not count' in that strange 8a.nu parallel universe he'd have needed to know in advance that the twig was "out" ...
>
> Doesn't this makes an onsight without twig a logical impossibility?
this holds true for any "eliminant" route.
for the particular case of a tree not allowed, there is a brilliant solution : mention it in the name.
e.g.
http://bleau.info/beorlots/14280.html
In reply to Brendan: another thing i love about jens and 8a, is the "time comparison grading" where if you do a boulder problem really fast, it gets downgraded....or something along those lines. crazy. its worth checking to see if mick has been on it though, him and jens have some great arguments.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
To be fair tho, this should really have been mentioned. If I were climbing an 8c I would never think a tree is in, and had I used it, I would have mentioned it, not just said the route was easy.
I'm not saying anyone cheated, but thats information that should really be stated when saying a route was easy for the grade.
Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard and should really be mentioned when sort of claiming a world class onsight.
To be fair tho, this should really have been mentioned. If I were climbing an 8c I would never think a tree is in, and had I used it, I would have mentioned it, not just said the route was easy.
I'm not saying anyone cheated, but thats information that should really be stated when saying a route was easy for the grade.
Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard and should really be mentioned when sort of claiming a world class onsight.
In reply to snoop6060:
Vegetation, if on route, is definitely in.
IMO if for 8c on this route you have to elimenate a twig, then it is the 8c grade that is invalid, not Steve's ascent. If the twig goes, then the grade goes up. Simple. Bit like Body Machine/etc when the tree got cut.
Sounds like some right tossers over at 8a.
Vegetation, if on route, is definitely in.
IMO if for 8c on this route you have to elimenate a twig, then it is the 8c grade that is invalid, not Steve's ascent. If the twig goes, then the grade goes up. Simple. Bit like Body Machine/etc when the tree got cut.
Sounds like some right tossers over at 8a.
In reply to snoop6060:
err who says?
if it's on the route why not use it?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> > Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard
>
> > Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard
err who says?
if it's on the route why not use it?
In reply to catt:
Its a tree sticking out of the rock, not really a bit of vegetation, and whether its in or not is irrelevant, Steve should have stated he used a tree on the ascent. Simple as that. He didn’t say anything except it was easy.
Something along the lines of:
"I am not happy with the 8c onsight as it was easy, perhaps because I used a tree to get to the belay."
Come on - this is information that really needs to be stated when claiming world class ascents. Using a tree branch as a hold on an 8c route. As if that is not contentious and worthy of a mention.
That guy at 8a.nu is a tosser, but that does change the fact steve claimed on 8c onsight having used a tree to get to the top, and didnt mention it.
Im sorry if this offends everyone, but that does sound a little bit like cheating.
Its a tree sticking out of the rock, not really a bit of vegetation, and whether its in or not is irrelevant, Steve should have stated he used a tree on the ascent. Simple as that. He didn’t say anything except it was easy.
Something along the lines of:
"I am not happy with the 8c onsight as it was easy, perhaps because I used a tree to get to the belay."
Come on - this is information that really needs to be stated when claiming world class ascents. Using a tree branch as a hold on an 8c route. As if that is not contentious and worthy of a mention.
That guy at 8a.nu is a tosser, but that does change the fact steve claimed on 8c onsight having used a tree to get to the top, and didnt mention it.
Im sorry if this offends everyone, but that does sound a little bit like cheating.
In reply to catt:
I have, he used a branch, not climbing a tree, but it still worthy of a mention, that is all.
I know he is world class, I know he isnt a cheat, its just that should have been mentioned.
I have, he used a branch, not climbing a tree, but it still worthy of a mention, that is all.
I know he is world class, I know he isnt a cheat, its just that should have been mentioned.
In reply to snoop6060:
Couldn't disagree with you more.
The whole affair would be completely laughable were it not for a few complete t*ssers on 8a spouting crap about 7c+'s and climbing a tree to a belay, all on 'good authority' from 'someone who saw the ascent'!
Is it hilariously ridiculous, is it a disgrace, or is it just a bunch of jealous, back stabbing wannabe's looking for their few moments in the limelight?
Maybe its all three!
Couldn't disagree with you more.
The whole affair would be completely laughable were it not for a few complete t*ssers on 8a spouting crap about 7c+'s and climbing a tree to a belay, all on 'good authority' from 'someone who saw the ascent'!
Is it hilariously ridiculous, is it a disgrace, or is it just a bunch of jealous, back stabbing wannabe's looking for their few moments in the limelight?
Maybe its all three!
In reply to chris_j_s:
Agree with you entirely. The whole 'report' on 8a just smacks of jealousy. Really shoddy 'journalism'
Agree with you entirely. The whole 'report' on 8a just smacks of jealousy. Really shoddy 'journalism'
In reply to chris_j_s:
I agree with you mate, but all I am saying is that this should have been mentioned.
As for 8a.nu
It all comes back to British climbing always taking shit from euro trash who like to take a pop at us as they seem to think that us brits think we are the top of the tree. I really have no idea why that is.
Any negative comments about british climbing and british climbers gets front page on 8a.nu, like they are trying to knock brits of their imaginery perch.
I agree with you mate, but all I am saying is that this should have been mentioned.
As for 8a.nu
It all comes back to British climbing always taking shit from euro trash who like to take a pop at us as they seem to think that us brits think we are the top of the tree. I really have no idea why that is.
Any negative comments about british climbing and british climbers gets front page on 8a.nu, like they are trying to knock brits of their imaginery perch.
In reply to snoop6060:
>Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard and should really be mentioned when sort of claiming a world class onsight.
>Im sorry if this offends everyone, but that does sound a little bit like cheating.
You are incorrect, in a number of matters, in both of these statements.
To the best of my knowledge, Steve has not claimed ("sort of" or otherwise) a world class onsight, merely responded to a question about his holiday.
Secondly, and more importantly, where is it written that one cannot use any form of vegetation whilst climbing? It's all legitimate on a VS, branches are intrinsic to the climbing on many routes, and I've desperately grabbed all the grass I can fit in my hands when topping out at Swanage.
And lastly, how can it be cheating, to just go out climbing with your mates whilst on holiday, which is, in essence, all Steve has done. Now I don't think you intended to accuse him of being a bad person, but given the anonymity of the internet, I suggest you should phrase things with a bit more care (your last statement could easily be interpreted as pretty vindictive). I'm pretty sure I didn't report to my friends that when I did Dream of White Horses I went slightly above the usual traverse line, by mistake. Does that mean I mislead them and cheated? Obviously not. Similarly, if Steve (quite fairly) assumed that the branch was in, then why on Earth would he think to 'report' it?
PS. Please don't tell me that all my ascents at Swanage are invalid due to grass pulling, or that I'm a cheat for not having previously declared my grass-pulling activities. I'd be crushed.
> I know he is world class, I know he isnt a cheat, its just that should have been mentioned.
>Grabbing a twig, tree, branch, whatever is fairly none standard and should really be mentioned when sort of claiming a world class onsight.
>Im sorry if this offends everyone, but that does sound a little bit like cheating.
You are incorrect, in a number of matters, in both of these statements.
To the best of my knowledge, Steve has not claimed ("sort of" or otherwise) a world class onsight, merely responded to a question about his holiday.
Secondly, and more importantly, where is it written that one cannot use any form of vegetation whilst climbing? It's all legitimate on a VS, branches are intrinsic to the climbing on many routes, and I've desperately grabbed all the grass I can fit in my hands when topping out at Swanage.
And lastly, how can it be cheating, to just go out climbing with your mates whilst on holiday, which is, in essence, all Steve has done. Now I don't think you intended to accuse him of being a bad person, but given the anonymity of the internet, I suggest you should phrase things with a bit more care (your last statement could easily be interpreted as pretty vindictive). I'm pretty sure I didn't report to my friends that when I did Dream of White Horses I went slightly above the usual traverse line, by mistake. Does that mean I mislead them and cheated? Obviously not. Similarly, if Steve (quite fairly) assumed that the branch was in, then why on Earth would he think to 'report' it?
PS. Please don't tell me that all my ascents at Swanage are invalid due to grass pulling, or that I'm a cheat for not having previously declared my grass-pulling activities. I'd be crushed.
In reply to plexiglass_nick:
yeah on another thread Jens has credited Steve with the FA of Raindogs!! and hasn't even acknowledged a correction.
> (In reply to chris_j_s)
>
> Really shoddy 'journalism'
>
> Really shoddy 'journalism'
yeah on another thread Jens has credited Steve with the FA of Raindogs!! and hasn't even acknowledged a correction.
In reply to andy reeve:
Likewise, I'd hate to lose my only to E ticks, both at Shorncliff. For that matter better write off everything I've done at Shorncliff! Hell, heather pulling is half the fun climbing in the highlands.
> PS. Please don't tell me that all my ascents at Swanage are invalid due to grass pulling, or that I'm a cheat for not having previously declared my grass-pulling activities. I'd be crushed.
Likewise, I'd hate to lose my only to E ticks, both at Shorncliff. For that matter better write off everything I've done at Shorncliff! Hell, heather pulling is half the fun climbing in the highlands.
In reply to UKC News: Steve's post on 8a is brilliant a must read!
In reply to andy reeve:
Andy,
Sorry if I came across as vindictive, that was not what I intended. I said this 'sounds a bit like' cheating. I didnt say Steve was a cheat, nor did I say he cheated.
I was basically adding a little balance to an argument. Everyone saying, oh well 8a can f*ck right off, everything say is wrong (for the record, it pretty much is, but that's not the point), all i was saying was hold on a minute, I can see why people are responding like this as it wasn't previuosly mentioned he grabbed a branch.
I know everyone wants to defend everything British in climbing, but all I was saying is that it should have been mentioned, not that he was a cheat, not that he cheated. A balanced look at the situation is all.
Andy,
Sorry if I came across as vindictive, that was not what I intended. I said this 'sounds a bit like' cheating. I didnt say Steve was a cheat, nor did I say he cheated.
I was basically adding a little balance to an argument. Everyone saying, oh well 8a can f*ck right off, everything say is wrong (for the record, it pretty much is, but that's not the point), all i was saying was hold on a minute, I can see why people are responding like this as it wasn't previuosly mentioned he grabbed a branch.
I know everyone wants to defend everything British in climbing, but all I was saying is that it should have been mentioned, not that he was a cheat, not that he cheated. A balanced look at the situation is all.
In reply to Jon Redshaw:
Like it!
"And also I used a tree on a VS once."
The Euro bods will be beside themselvs trying to work out what a VS is, and if this is harder than E12!
Like it!
"And also I used a tree on a VS once."
The Euro bods will be beside themselvs trying to work out what a VS is, and if this is harder than E12!
In reply to Jon Redshaw:
It's in the updated news report Jon, sent to us by Steve this morning:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49602
It's in the updated news report Jon, sent to us by Steve this morning:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49602
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Sorry, had to update the page to see that, was wondering why you said you had updated the story and nothing seemed to have changed.
How points do you reckon you loose for grabbing a tree on a VS?
How points do you reckon you loose for grabbing a tree on a VS?
In reply to thomasfoote:
not so much, if used "whith a pinch of salt".
Basically, one fast ascent can be luck....many, it is likely to be the very nature of the boulder.
say you have 10 friends who never climbed anything harder than V7 in one day, and they all climb this particular V8 in a few hours.
I'm ok with the idea that it should be at least a "very easy V8".
then it's up to your feeling of what a grade should communicate.
eg, I guess this formula can be very harsh with straightforward problems that have little technical content and with stuff where one can do zillions of tries in few minutes (tricky one-movers).
It will probably be too generous, for common taste, with problems not letting you try too much in the same day because of dumb reasons (eg too sharp...)
> (In reply to Brendan) another thing i love about jens and 8a, is the "time comparison grading" where if you do a boulder problem really fast, it gets downgraded....or something along those lines. crazy.
not so much, if used "whith a pinch of salt".
Basically, one fast ascent can be luck....many, it is likely to be the very nature of the boulder.
say you have 10 friends who never climbed anything harder than V7 in one day, and they all climb this particular V8 in a few hours.
I'm ok with the idea that it should be at least a "very easy V8".
then it's up to your feeling of what a grade should communicate.
eg, I guess this formula can be very harsh with straightforward problems that have little technical content and with stuff where one can do zillions of tries in few minutes (tricky one-movers).
It will probably be too generous, for common taste, with problems not letting you try too much in the same day because of dumb reasons (eg too sharp...)
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
"This was reported anonymously at the spray fest website 8a.nu and a witch hunt started on the 8a.nu forums"
Now now Mick, we all know you shouldn't judge a website by it's forums
> (In reply to Jon Redshaw)
>
> It's in the updated news report Jon, sent to us by Steve this morning:
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49602
>
> It's in the updated news report Jon, sent to us by Steve this morning:
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49602
"This was reported anonymously at the spray fest website 8a.nu and a witch hunt started on the 8a.nu forums"
Now now Mick, we all know you shouldn't judge a website by it's forums
In reply to snoop6060:
Why should it have? It appears it may be part of the route. Many climbs feature tree holds. We don't know if the first ascensionist used the tree hold, or the four repeaters.
We do now know that Steve did because he has said so. Get that, he said so, he puts his name to it, doesn't hide behind a no name.
No one has published the guidebook description for this route? No one has acknowledged any sources at 8a.nu, or put a credit (by line) to any news report, everything is anonymous, no accountability at all.
As Steve has said there are sika holds on many routes at Rodellar...... more artificial than a tree.
Steve even said in our news report that he said he didn't belong in the 8c onsight club..... not yet that is ; o )
There are numerous examples of climbers claiming the guidebook grade then the route gets downgraded after .... yet many climbers still hold on to that guidebook grade, claiming a record!!!
Just take a glance at some professional climbers websites, including some UK climbers.
Steve McClure has a long record of being conservative about grades, he's not an inflator to grab publicity because he doesn't need to and has a long track record of hard ascents at 8c and above. He is respected amongst his peers, people like Chris Sharma and others.
M
> (In reply to andy reeve)
> I was basically adding a little balance to an argument. Everyone saying, oh well 8a can f*ck right off, everything say is wrong (for the record, it pretty much is, but that's not the point), all i was saying was hold on a minute, I can see why people are responding like this as it wasn't previuosly mentioned he grabbed a branch.
Why should it have? It appears it may be part of the route. Many climbs feature tree holds. We don't know if the first ascensionist used the tree hold, or the four repeaters.
We do now know that Steve did because he has said so. Get that, he said so, he puts his name to it, doesn't hide behind a no name.
No one has published the guidebook description for this route? No one has acknowledged any sources at 8a.nu, or put a credit (by line) to any news report, everything is anonymous, no accountability at all.
As Steve has said there are sika holds on many routes at Rodellar...... more artificial than a tree.
Steve even said in our news report that he said he didn't belong in the 8c onsight club..... not yet that is ; o )
There are numerous examples of climbers claiming the guidebook grade then the route gets downgraded after .... yet many climbers still hold on to that guidebook grade, claiming a record!!!
Just take a glance at some professional climbers websites, including some UK climbers.
Steve McClure has a long record of being conservative about grades, he's not an inflator to grab publicity because he doesn't need to and has a long track record of hard ascents at 8c and above. He is respected amongst his peers, people like Chris Sharma and others.
M
I don't usually post on these things but this seems to be getting out of hand. It is actually my own fault for not stating I used a branch, but I honestly thought that it was 'in'. I just went climbing and did what felt natural. At the time I saw no other way up the route other than right next to this branch and it seemed it simply had to be in. There didn't seem to be any reason to explain this use, it appeared it was part of the route. I also drew this conclusion as, having moved above this, there were hard bouldery moves that I had expected to be faced with on a very hard route. I nearly fell from them, closer in fact than on the 8b's and even an 8b+ that I onsighted. However, the bouldery nature prompted me to think that maybe I hand't done it the easiest way. Additionally at the time I knew of no ascents, just a number on a topo and assumed I'd get back and see a downgrade to 8b or something. This was a route I knew nothing about. Basically I didn't think I had missed any of the route by using the branch, I still don't know if I did as I saw no other way up. If there had been small holds and bolts out to the side then it would have been clear.
What people don't understand is that news travels very fast indeed, especially when it is apparently hard stuff. Just going climbing with your mates and doing stuff can be on the net before even getting home.
There is no time for reflection and usually you are judged without being asked for comment. It's too late to add a comment. Being in the news is a double edged sword, but you have to take the rough with the smooth. This incident makes me look like a wanker. Reading the threads I would think I was a wanker. It's annoying as I climbed a route, enjoyed it, felt it was soft and looked out for other peoples thoughts. I expected I'd find a few people had climbed it the same way as me and downgraded it but it turns out that people climb it without the tree. Before I knew it I was branded a cheat and a liar. Anyway, not using the tree seems silly so I reckon my way up was best!
For those that know me they know I'm not in the game to big myself up. Bloody hell, if I'd wanted to do that and didn't mind bending the truth a little do you think I'd do such a shit job!!!
What people don't understand is that news travels very fast indeed, especially when it is apparently hard stuff. Just going climbing with your mates and doing stuff can be on the net before even getting home.
There is no time for reflection and usually you are judged without being asked for comment. It's too late to add a comment. Being in the news is a double edged sword, but you have to take the rough with the smooth. This incident makes me look like a wanker. Reading the threads I would think I was a wanker. It's annoying as I climbed a route, enjoyed it, felt it was soft and looked out for other peoples thoughts. I expected I'd find a few people had climbed it the same way as me and downgraded it but it turns out that people climb it without the tree. Before I knew it I was branded a cheat and a liar. Anyway, not using the tree seems silly so I reckon my way up was best!
For those that know me they know I'm not in the game to big myself up. Bloody hell, if I'd wanted to do that and didn't mind bending the truth a little do you think I'd do such a shit job!!!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
As you say, it "may" be part of the route, not 100% certain, so thats why, in my opinion, he should have said he used it. I thought us brits thrived on such ethics.
This would have give clarity to all this and stopped all this nonesense, tho Im not sure what I would have spent all day at work reading about.
This is only my opinion though, as as usual, this is actually worth nothing, just contributing to a thread on a forum. Not trying to offend anyone or be vindictive, or call someone a cheat.
What is a sika hold? Ive never come across that term.
As you say, it "may" be part of the route, not 100% certain, so thats why, in my opinion, he should have said he used it. I thought us brits thrived on such ethics.
This would have give clarity to all this and stopped all this nonesense, tho Im not sure what I would have spent all day at work reading about.
This is only my opinion though, as as usual, this is actually worth nothing, just contributing to a thread on a forum. Not trying to offend anyone or be vindictive, or call someone a cheat.
What is a sika hold? Ive never come across that term.
In reply to snoop6060:
Leave it out dude. You are onsighting a route, no knowledge, the tree hold is on the route, no deviation, its covered in chalk.... you use it: anyone would UNLESS someone had told you, or you had read in the guidebook... DON"T USE THE TREE HOLD.
Full marks to the first ascensionist for not chopping the tree I say.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> As you say, it "may" be part of the route, not 100% certain, so thats why, in my opinion, he should have said he used it. I thought us brits thrived on such ethics.
>
> As you say, it "may" be part of the route, not 100% certain, so thats why, in my opinion, he should have said he used it. I thought us brits thrived on such ethics.
Leave it out dude. You are onsighting a route, no knowledge, the tree hold is on the route, no deviation, its covered in chalk.... you use it: anyone would UNLESS someone had told you, or you had read in the guidebook... DON"T USE THE TREE HOLD.
Full marks to the first ascensionist for not chopping the tree I say.
In reply to ste mac:
No it doesn't, quite the opposite, you've been completely up front throughout.
> This incident makes me look like a wanker
No it doesn't, quite the opposite, you've been completely up front throughout.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Indeed, i think this has gone far enough.
Whats a sika hold tho?
Indeed, i think this has gone far enough.
Whats a sika hold tho?
In reply to snoop6060:
Sika is a putty-like substance used (in climbing) to create an artificial hold. Allows an otherwise unclimable* section to be climbed without damaging* the rock.
*Denotes a debateable statement!
>
> Whats a sika hold tho?
> Whats a sika hold tho?
Sika is a putty-like substance used (in climbing) to create an artificial hold. Allows an otherwise unclimable* section to be climbed without damaging* the rock.
*Denotes a debateable statement!
In reply to ste mac:
Steve, I think the only way this incident could make you look like a wanker would be in the view of someone who was determined to think so anyway and not to bother scratching the surface of what actually happened. It's a shame you've had to defend yourself over something so innocuous. Good luck with nabbing a definitive 8c onsight!
Steve, I think the only way this incident could make you look like a wanker would be in the view of someone who was determined to think so anyway and not to bother scratching the surface of what actually happened. It's a shame you've had to defend yourself over something so innocuous. Good luck with nabbing a definitive 8c onsight!
In reply to ste mac:
Cheers Steve, kind of killed this stupid debate right away. Its wasnt like you were boasting about it either...
Cheers Steve, kind of killed this stupid debate right away. Its wasnt like you were boasting about it either...
I do not think Steve did wrong, he just though the branch was part or the route. He did not even claim to have on sighted an 8c, just said he climbed “Amistad” route and doubted about its grade.
What it is wrong in this entire story, it is that Michel Ryan got into 8a.nu and slag off its administrator.
What it is wrong in this entire story, it is that Michel Ryan got into 8a.nu and slag off its administrator.
In reply to ste mac:
The complete opposite. If anything you've come across as completely open and honest about it. From the very start were you said you were not sure of the grade, thought it was soft and didn't consider yourself part of the 8c onsight club. That, if anything show how strong your integrity is, you should be roundly applauded for that highly ethical stance.
LOL very true and well said.
Andy F
> Reading the threads I would think I was a wanker.
The complete opposite. If anything you've come across as completely open and honest about it. From the very start were you said you were not sure of the grade, thought it was soft and didn't consider yourself part of the 8c onsight club. That, if anything show how strong your integrity is, you should be roundly applauded for that highly ethical stance.
> Bloody hell, if I'd wanted to do that and didn't mind bending the truth a little do you think I'd do such a shit job!!!
LOL very true and well said.
Andy F
In reply to andy farnell:
i'm absolutely devastated as i climbed north crag eliminate t'other day and i only used the frikin tree :O( how was i supposed to know ! thought i had climbed an E1 and apparently it is only HS but due to the fact i had my old comfy shoes on i can claim a VS - yipee !
keep up the good work ste :O)
p.s i didn't climb north crag eliminate (for the record)
jas- nym climber.
i'm absolutely devastated as i climbed north crag eliminate t'other day and i only used the frikin tree :O( how was i supposed to know ! thought i had climbed an E1 and apparently it is only HS but due to the fact i had my old comfy shoes on i can claim a VS - yipee !
keep up the good work ste :O)
p.s i didn't climb north crag eliminate (for the record)
jas- nym climber.
In reply to ste mac:
Honestly, who gives a shit what 'they' think Steve, We all know you're an honest guy, you've in the past given no reason for anyone to doubt your word.
Just get out there and continuing what you're doing, climbing those hard lines! stick two fingers up at the nay-sayers and enjoy yourself
Honestly, who gives a shit what 'they' think Steve, We all know you're an honest guy, you've in the past given no reason for anyone to doubt your word.
Just get out there and continuing what you're doing, climbing those hard lines! stick two fingers up at the nay-sayers and enjoy yourself
In reply to ste mac:
Not to want to appear too whatever the expression might be, but trust me, you don't appear to be a w@nker for a v simple mistake.
Personally, for me, trees are *always* in
Not to want to appear too whatever the expression might be, but trust me, you don't appear to be a w@nker for a v simple mistake.
Personally, for me, trees are *always* in
In reply to UKC News: Steve redpointed Cry Freedom on saturday, and onsighted Idefix (8b extension to free and even easier)
Cheers
Tim
Cheers
Tim
In reply to UKC News:
Just curious, why would somebody who consistently climbs 8b onsight need to lie about what they climb? :P
Using the tree seemed like an easy mistake to make, (if it's covered in chalk and on the main line, with no obvious route around) and i'm astounded at the amount of people that are willing to criticize the guy that is more or less carrying the flag for british sport climbing, over an innocent mistake.
So go criticize when you can flash 8b in the dark i say. :P
Just curious, why would somebody who consistently climbs 8b onsight need to lie about what they climb? :P
Using the tree seemed like an easy mistake to make, (if it's covered in chalk and on the main line, with no obvious route around) and i'm astounded at the amount of people that are willing to criticize the guy that is more or less carrying the flag for british sport climbing, over an innocent mistake.
So go criticize when you can flash 8b in the dark i say. :P
In reply to scooott:
I'm astounded that you think a lot of people are critical. They aren't.
> (In reply to UKC News)
> i'm astounded at the amount of people that are willing to criticize the guy that is more or less carrying the flag for british sport climbing, over an innocent mistake.
>
> So go criticize when you can flash 8b in the dark i say. :P
>
> So go criticize when you can flash 8b in the dark i say. :P
I'm astounded that you think a lot of people are critical. They aren't.
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