UKC

I was at my local wall this evening (the castle) doing a spot of bouldering and I was failing hopelesly on a v4 boulder problem, in fact I have never managed to complete a v4 problem. While resting I noticed the Rockfax grade comparison table and couldn't help but notice that v3 on thier chart equated to about 7a in sports climbing terms.

This got me thinking that somebody who could climb 7a would rightfully feel they were a fairly competent climber, but as a v3 boulderer (6csport climber) i always feel rubish as I am so far down a 15 point scale. I know grades shouldn't matter and all that but it can have a pyscological effect.

Not really sure of the point of this post just wanted to vent a get feedback on other peoples thoughts on the v grade system and it apparent high start point?!

In reply to gcandlin:

Why not switch to the British technical system? You're doing quite well on that. And, for many, F6c isn't to be sniffed at. You're doing OK.

Mick

In reply to gcandlin:

I think it's rubbish (for me) as all I can climb is V0 so it doesn't tell me anything (apart from it could either be easy, hard or at my limit)

In reply to gcandlin: Bouldering is a different sport to climbing. The grades only compare the technical difficulty of the climb. Stringing together 10 6a moves is obviously harder than doing one problem at 6a.

I like yourself can boulder v4/v5 depending on the wall. Yet I can't get my head in gear to lead more than 6b.

In reply to gcandlin:

Not progressing is intensely frustrating, you have my sympathy. I've been climbing as hard as I do today for nearly 10 years (several times a week through most of that period). The annoying thing is I climbed this hard within a few months of starting out.

Stick with it, you'll probably get over the hump and start making progress again. Oh and don't worry too much about grade conversion tables. If I climbed sport routes as hard as they suggest I should I'd be in the mid/high 7s. In reality I'm struggling to redpoint 6a/b.

jk

In reply to gcandlin:

Well V3 is about a single hard move... sport 7a encompases something a little more than that so its always going to be harder to 'obtain' 7a than it is to pull off a one move wonder... I think being solid and consistent at V3... actually V4, is equivalent to 7a climbing and comes with equal rewards.

Pulling off the odd V3 problem is easier than pulling off a 7a sport route by their very nature... boulder problems are short and can be worked easily. Keep at it though, the V grade serves its purpose better if you don't compare with other things I think.

In reply to Silum:

Unless it's longer and has easier moves. Like sport 7a..or any other single parameter grade...could be pumpy, could be technical..depends

In reply to Mick Ward:


Bloody hell yeah i'd be happy doing 6c!

In reply to gcandlin:

Heh dont worry dude, bouldering's meant to be a humbling experience! Forget that ego and obtain pure focus ... a bit like zen meditation except more fun...

In reply to Bulls Crack:

We're talking about the made up grade of 'gym V3'... my lack of confidence in indoor climbing leads me to believe an indoor V3 will always be about a 'single move'... and more like V1 on actual rock.

Sure there are "extended and pumpy" V3's, indoors they are exclusively traverses. Bit of a niche.

..Not trying to make this into another indoor debate, afterall most all of us know how crap indoor compares to the real thing. It took me a long while to flash a V3 yet V3 indoors came within a few weeks of climbing... who judges grade based on indoors anymore?! If we are talking about the V grade, then it stems from Hueco and is an adaption for similar rock types... gritstone I think works very well with the V grade. Indoors...not so much. As a shit climber I wouldn't have been flashing gym V3's otherwise. My advice is if you're bouldering indoors, leave the grades behind and be a little more open to routes of different styles/difficulty/type.

In reply to gcandlin:

Well, I was on a rare visit to the Castle on Tuesday night from oop North and also found myself struggling on the V4s. Compared with many bouldering walls north of Watford Gap, they felt more like V5 (if that's any consolation). Perhaps we're just softies in Yorkshire?

(Good problems though)
Carl

In reply to gcandlin:

Which problem, out of interest?

In reply to gcandlin:

V system is pish, Font grades ftw

In reply to gcandlin:
"This got me thinking that somebody who could climb 7a would rightfully feel they were a fairly competent climber, but as a v3 boulderer (6csport climber) i always feel rubish as I am so far down a 15 point scale. ..... just wanted to vent a get feedback on other peoples thoughts on the v grade system and it apparent high start point?!"

We should think ourselves lucky that John Gill's original "B" grading scale never caught on!

Three grades only -
B1 - equates to the current highest level of roped climbing (as real bouldering only starts above that level!), so about 5.11/UK6a when he created it, about 5.15/UK7-whatever now.
B2 - a harder problem than B1
B3 - a problem which has only been done once, as soon as it gets repeated it instantly becomes B2, or even B1!

So a classic problem from say, the 70's, at UK6b, wouldn't even merit a B rating these days!

THAT'S humbling!

Cheers
Andy

In reply to Andy Cairns: No wonder that B system never caught on...

In reply to gcandlin:

Although I haven't climbed there for a bit, I'm glad the Castle changed to V grades. The UK technical grades that they used to use (a) bore no relation to any bouldering I ever tried outside or any indoor bouldering anywhere else, and (b) made you think you were getting good when actually you were bouldering V2/3.

In my experience bouldering is HARD. You have to go several times a week to see improvements. It makes you a stronger and more technical climber.

Bouldering-Sport Conversion charts are a useful guide to how hard the hardest move is on a given sport grade. So if you can boulder V3/4 you can do the hardest move on a F7a. But you need to have the physical and mental endurance to do these moves after a bunch of easier ones, when pumped, on a dodgy clip etc.

When you think about it, F7a is as far from the cutting edge of sport climbing (F9b or is it F9b+) as V3 is from V15. 12 grades. That's a lot to aspire towards!

In reply to gcandlin:

If it makes you feel better, the current set of V4's at the Castle are hard to nails for V4, and if you succeed on one then you'd be fair to think that you could pull off the individual moves on the majority of 7b/+ sport routes out there. Stringing them together is a different matter of course...

In reply to 220bpm:

They're the same thing really

In reply to gcandlin:

Our U Grades system:

U grades fill the obvious gap under the V grade system and cater for the large number of climbers interested in climbing problems easier than V0, (roughly equivalent to a standard UK 5b technical graded problem). The B grade system caters for some of this range, with B0 typically equating to 4c but some climbers are interested in much easier problems, those which you might find on a typical easier rock climb. Fontainebleau grades could also have been used but could be confused with UK technical grades (or even sports grades). The U grades cover the approximate range from UK technical grades 5a to 2a. They work in a similar way in which we have used V grades, with sustained problems, or high exposed problems, or those above a bad landing, being moved up a notch (note: highballs and bad landings elsewhere don't neccesarily increase V grades but we think they should, especially at lower grades). Particular care is taken in this respect with U grades since lower grade climbers are less likely to be able to cope with worrying finishes. On the other hand some very short problems may also be moved down a notch. All problems are given U grades and UK technical grades.

The following are the equivalent UK technical grades and Font (Fnx) grades to U grade problems (which are not too high or very sustained and above a good landing):

U9 for 5a (F4a)
U8 for 4c (F3c)
U7 for 4b (F3b)
U6 for 4a (F3a)
U5 for 3c (F2c)
U4 for 3b (F2b)
U3 for 3a (F2a)
U2 for 2c (F1c)
U1 for 2b (F1b)
U0 for 2a (F1a)
U0- for problems of 1c and below.

Some harder problems are given V grades which fit seamlessly on top of the U grade system (again for problems which are not too high or very sustained and above a good landing):

V0 for 5b
V1 for 5c
etc

In reply to gcandlin:

Don't worry, some of the current V3s at the Castle are much harder than some off the V4/5s. for example, all on the slab area.

The purple V5 on big starting holds in the centre of the slab is easier than the orange V3 that crosses the same ground.

The purple V4 on the left of the slabby area is piss, but the orange V3 crossing the same ground is nails and a bit dodgy.

In fact there's a V1 on that slab that's nearly as hard as the big purple V5!

So don't worry, the grading's all over the shop.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Glad you said that BC. Yip, Font and V's are identical. Preference is often tribal.

In reply to gcandlin: WHat ABOUT ENGLISH 7c???????

In reply to Queequeg:
Hopefully by now that slab set is a flock of norwegan blues. That area was supposed to be reset today according to their setting rota.