/ My first rack

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Juglan - on 21 Jan 2010
Ok, so this is what I am thinking of buying, as right now I only have shoes and a belay device:

Nuts Set 1-14 - Wild Country Rocks Anodized


Phantom Quickdraw Pack DMM x 2 (10 in total)

3 wild country technical friends set
10 Phantom Karabiners

3 other screwgate karribners, dont understand different closing mechanisms, can someone advise?

Slings 16mm 3x120cm, 1 x 240cm, 2 x 60cm

Rope 10-11mm

Helmet?
SBMikeD - on 21 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:
get your self an all round harness(if you havent already)
for the screw gates;
go again for the DMM sentinels or the like, i think they are good all rounders to start off with.
maybe a nut key?,

but other than that mate i would suggest you get out and use/tryout
what you buy, make sure you learn there limits with the cams and nut placements.

good luck and have fun is the main thing!!
andy_e on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

Sounds a pretty well thought out rack. Although, unless you want to spend lots of money, i'd only pick up one set of cams, and get some torque nuts / hexes or similar instead.

It still works, but i guess it depends on how much you want to spend. I'm only now just starting to get enough cams, but i'm skint!

I'm not quite sure as what you want explaining about screwgates?
willoates - on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran: I would maybe drop one of the sets of quick draws and get some extenders instead. they do the same job but better.

Will
grubes - on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

Hi Paul,

This is a really good article to help start building a rack
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=840

Hope it helps
JJL - on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

It's all personal taste, but my tuppence is:

- the helmet is a must
- a nutkey is a must
- you could lose one of the 120cm slings
- I don't like the large size wires (above about 7 or 8); for these sizes go for something on string instead, like hexes
- can't really see the point in paying for anodisation
- I'd go for friends 0.5 - 1.5 - 2.5
- I don't know how long the Phantom QDs are - but don't get the real shorties (go 15cm rather than 10cm)
- sounds like you could lose a few of the extra krabs
- I assume your belay device works for abbing?
- A couple of prussik loops

As I said, all personal opinion...
mattrm - on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

I think JJL has it right there. You could loose one of the 120 slings quite happily. You might want to look into getting 400mm cordlette as well, it's great for setting up belays.

Protectionwise I'd ditch the cams for Hexes, specifically DMM Torque Nuts. Unless you're really confident with placing cams then it's best to stick with passive when you're a beginner. Personally I'd get Wallnuts as well. Go DMM all the way, they're ace!

Phantoms are great, however they are smaller than normal krabs which means that it's a bit harder to squeeze clove hitches on especially when using 11mm rope. That's why I have a Boa as well. I would look seriously at the new DMM Spectres and if you're climbing trad long quickdraws are a million times better than short ones. You need more 25cm and 18cm ones. 12cm is only good for sport. Also on the subject of quickdraws you need to have some sling draws. I would say at least 4. So have 6 normal QDs (2x25 4x18 2x12) and 4 slingdraws. Read this article for what I mean by sling draws:

http://www.planetfear.com/articles/Making_The_Ultimate_Trad_Quickdraw_264.html

This is what I'd get (and what I've largely got)

1-11 DMM Wallnuts (2 phantom wiregates for racking)
1-4 DMM Torque Nuts (4 racking phantoms)
2x12 DMM Shield Quickdraws
4x18 DMM Shield Quickdraws
2x25 DMM Shield Quickdraws
4 60cm slings with Shields and Revolver Wiregates for slingdraws
2x120cm slings
2x60cm slings
1x400cm cordlette
3xDMM Phantom Screwgates (only really need 2 tbh, but I ended up with 3)
1xDMM Boa Screwgates
Nutkey
Helmet (Wild Country 360)

They're all colour coded, eg all 60cm slings are red, 120cms are grey. 12cm QDs are orange, 18cm QDs are grey, 25s are red etc etc. I've matched the Torque Nuts up with colourcoded Phantoms and the 1-6 nuts are on blue ones and 7-11 red ones and I'll keep that up for my second set of nuts. You can order the specific phantoms individually so you can get 2 blue ones etc etc.

No rope yet, but I'll probably end up with a 10mm 40m rope for the local wall and a couple of 8.5s for trad, probably 50m maybe 60m.
Merlin - on 22 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

Good advice so far.

I'd go for thinner slings, 16mm is quite thick. DMM do 8mm ones which handle very well. Or 10mm is good.

Maybe a thinner rope (9.5-10mm), just to save a bit of weight when climbing and carrying.

Not too keen on the Phantom Krabs either, as mentioned before; they are very small and if you do get into winter climbing(?!) you'll be wearing gloves which'll make handling difficult.

Boa screw gate will be ideal for belays.
richie934 - on 26 Jan 2010
In reply to mattrm: I think that this is a great suggestion for a first rack and I second the opinion that DMM are the finest producers of climbing gear on the planet. The only modifications I’d make would be to loose the 400mm cordlette as they’re not strictly necessary. Don’t bother putting revolvers on your slingdraws as they’re expensive, use shields on both ends. And get a set of DMM offset wires as they will double up on your key wire sizes and they are awesome – I place mine more than any other protection.
Pierre Maxted - on 26 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:
Helmet - of course, yes.
Rope - consider getting a 60m if you might be doing sport routes.
What type of rock will you be climbing on? Friends are very handy on grit, you may want to get a few extra small wires if you are on limestone a lot.
You'll need a couple of krabs for racking gear

-Pierre
chrisprescott - on 26 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran: Looks like a good starter although personally I would get half the quickdraw's and just have a snapgate on each of the friends, makes them easier to rack and you don't have to carry as many quickdraws
mattrm - on 26 Jan 2010
In reply to richie934:

My rack is definitely a money no object rack. I've been happy to build it up through lucky buys in sales, the odd second hand buy and lots of shopping around. Which is why the revolvers are in there, yes they are expensive, but I think they're just the thing on the slingdraws. Very handy when you've got a bit of gear off to the side or are traversing off to one side. The cordlette isn't necessary, but it makes building belays a lot quicker (it's good to know the 'normal' method however).
yer maw on 26 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:
> Nuts Set 1-14 - Wild Country Rocks Anodized
Please don't. £140 notes for some nicely coloured nuts, mental waste of dough. You get nuts 1-10 for £55, then sizes 1-7 as extras spread over two krabs.

> Phantom Quickdraw Pack DMM x 2 (10 in total)
If you need 10 quickdraws for climbing then give up now as you'll never get up a route for placing all the gear. 8 at the very, very most and preferably 12-15cm long on big wiregates e.g. nitros or astros.

> 3 wild country technical friends set
You'll get more cheaper ones for your money and they are still excellent e.g. DMMs and get 0, 0.5, 1, 2, 3. They also come with their own krab that can be extended, so 5 DMMs for 3 WCs much better deal for your money.

> 10 Phantom Karabiners
You need 2 krabs for your nuts, one for each rockcentric, one for each cam if you don't get DMMs, one for your nut key (dinnae get the nut key with hooks for cams).

> 3 other screwgate karribners, dont understand different closing mechanisms, can someone advise?
Get 2 boas for belaying (one for belay device eg atc and the other for tying of), then a smallish one for each sling you get.
>
> Slings 16mm 3x120cm, 1 x 240cm, 2 x 60cm
You'll only need 1x120cm and even then the 240cm folds to that and trying to find it when climbing hard is a pain as wel, so get 2x240cm instead of one and maybe a huge one for top-out belays that gets tied up and kept on the back loop of your harness. 4 in total.

> Rope 10-11mm
I'd get an 8.5 or 9mm dry treated as you'll probably be climbing with others and it's better to get used to climbing with two ropes.

> Helmet?
Definitely, style up to you and whether you intend getting into winter which needs something a wee bit more robust.

Remember its' the job of mags and shops to promote gear. Go to a crag and ask folk as everyone has made expensive mistakes so I'm sure people will gladly give advice. Choose folk climbing VS and above though as they'll tend to have got there through trial and error so will know what they're talking about.
Hope this helps.
Jame58rown - on 26 Jan 2010
Personally, I'd defo get Black Diamond Camalot cams, They're really good and much better that 4cu's and friends IMO.

I think a good beginners rack would be like this:

BD Camalots: 1,2 and 3. (maybe 0.75)each on separate wire gate.
8 QD's: 4 20cm and 4 12cm
set of wires 1-10 with a couple of racking krabs
Belay device on HMS.
Spare HMS
2 120cm slings with small screwgate on each
60cm sling with a small screwgate.
nut key
pacman on 27 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran:

"Nuts Set 1-14 - Wild Country Rocks Anodized"

Rockcentrics/Torque Nuts are better than the larger Rocks, lighter and more placement options, so rather than Nuts 1-14 I would suggest getting either

WC Anodized Rocks Set 1-8 plus WC Wired Rockcentrics 3 and 4 (equivalent to Rocks 9 and 10 but lighter and more placement options)

or

WC Classic Rocks Set 1-10

and then medium/large WC Rockcentrics or DMM Torque Nuts on dyneema.

Buying WC Rocks Set 1-8 and WC Rockcentrics Full Set would be cheaper but the smaller Rockcentrics on dyneema can be a pain to place and retrieve.

"Phantom Quickdraw Pack DMM x 2 (10 in total)"

Good choice, although you might want to convert some to slingdraws and stick a Revolver on one of them. Just keep the spare tapes, you'll end up using them to make up extra quickdraws in the future.

For short routes which 6 to 8 quickdraws should suffice, but the others will be handy for longer pitches and on harder stuff later so it is still worth getting the cheaper multipacks.

As far as the smaller size of Phantoms goes I only find this a problem when clipping the rope into runners with gloves on in winter; they're absolutely fine for belays, clove hitches, the gear end of quickdraws etc.

"3 wild country technical friends set"

Perfect for gritstone/granite/sandstone, start with whole sizes and supplement with half sizes later. If climbing mostly limestone either get the half sizes or don't bother with any cams for now (get a second set of wires 1-8 instead, maybe getting DMM Walnuts rather than more WC Rocks).

DMM 4CUs also good, exactly same sizes so just look around for the best deal.

If you plan on using cams in winter in the future then get BD Camalots or wait for the DMM Dragons, much easier to use with gloves on.

"10 Phantom Karabiners"

Good choice, bearing in mind comments above about winter use.

"3 other screwgate karribners, dont understand different closing mechanisms, can someone advise?"

Two should be enough, Petzl Attache 3D or similar for belay plate and a DMM Boa for belays. You don't need extra screwgates for your anchors, when you get to the top of a pitch you'll still have some phantoms left on your harness and you can double those up if you want to (bear in mind you can use your racking biners here if needs be, particularly on single pitch where you don't need to worry about racking up for the next bit).

Normal screwgates are fine unless you're really careless/forgetful, in which case get something with a fancy autolocking gate or better still just don't climb.

"Slings 16mm 3x120cm, 1 x 240cm, 2 x 60cm"

You certainly don't need all those. I'd just get

2 x 60 cm (plus extra if you want to make up slingdraws)
1 x 120 cm (maybe 2 if doing multi-pitch and your partner hasn't got one).

Suggest 8 or 10 mm dyneema for general use, Beal 6 mm dyneema for slingdraws. Don't bother with the 240 cm sling, they're totally unnecessary for UK rock climbing.

"Rope 10-11mm"

11 mm is very heavy, get 10 mm. If you'll end up using it for sport climbing as well don't get less than 60 m.

"Helmet?"

Definitely. For cragging on nice clean single pitch stuff then one of the super light foam ones would be okay. If you'll also be doing mountains / sea cliffs / winter stuff then you'd be better with one of the combined foam and hard shell models. That said, the most important thing is that it's comfortable and on your head rather than in your bag.


Whatever kit you do end up buying make sure you don't just end up carrying all of it up every route you do, get into the habit of looking at the route and only taking what you think you'll need (plus maybe a little extra to be on the safe side when you're starting out).

Enjoy buying your first rack, but make sure you enjoy getting out there and using it more!
richie934 - on 27 Jan 2010
In reply to yer maw:
> Please don't. £140 notes for some nicely coloured nuts, mental waste of dough. You get nuts 1-10 for £55, then sizes 1-7 as extras spread over two krabs.
>
I have to disagree. New style anodized nuts are a more complex shape and offer more placement options. You may spend slightly more initially but you’ll get your moneys worth – go for a 1-11 set of DMM walnuts complimented by a set of 7-11 DMM alloy offsets about £120 for the lot.
EeeByGum - on 28 Jan 2010
In reply to Paul Doran: The only thing I would say, is that longer quick draws are more useful on trad than shorter ones that tend to be used on sport.

Also, you might think about cutting down your initial spend and top up with your climbing partners gear. In this way you will get used to your gear a bit at a time and discover what you prefer. So for me, I wouldn't bother with 11 - 14 rocks and I personally prefer friends to hexes. Your view may be vastly different, but I really would try before you buy.

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