UKC

Which handheld GPS is best for a walker?

Ideally needs to have a decent enough battery life to last the day
Within £80 - £150 budget
Relatively easy to use
Good range of maps (I understand there are free maps available on the net, I dont want have to buy an expensive map subscription if it can be avoided)

It would good if it worked as an in car sat nav also, but not a necessity.

Cheers

Fman

In reply to Fman:

Buy any cheap car sat nav. You can easily run memory map on any that is Windows CE based (most of them are). Search these details on Google and you shall find

In reply to newhey:

The only issue with that is battery life.

In reply to Fman:

I'm more than happy with my Garmin eTrex

In reply to bentley's biceps:

Not when you get a battery add-on from http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk
I have the usb one and can get a minimum 15 hours from my 4.3in sat nav from ebuyer.

In reply to newhey:

Whereas my eTrex has never lasted less than 24hours on 2 AAs.
Why take 2 bottles into the shower......?

In reply to bentley's biceps:
Another vote for the etrex. I have an etrex summit and not had problems with battery at all. That said, I have the electronic compass disabled to save on juice. I always carry 2 spare batteries anyway mainly for the camera but they are the same size as the etrex so could use them in the gps if needed. Never had to though.

Thanks for the advice guys.

It seems eTrex is favourite. According to google shopping they are £60-£70 this seems a good price, I assume this does not include maps?

In reply to Fman: The basic eTrex does not have mapping capability. It tells you your position and you look that up on a paper map. You can program routes on it, and record and download tracklogs which show where you have been.

I think you need to spend a lot more to get mapping capabilities that are good enough for walking, which to my mind would mean being able to display at least 1:50,000 OS maps. One device that can do that now is the Satmap, currently on Amazon at £310. A full set of OS 1:50,000 mapping will set you back another £160. I'm pretty sure some of the higher-end models in the Garmin range have similar capabilites (eg the Colorado units?) at similar sorts of prices.

Personally, I prefer a map which doesn't rely on batteries, but I also carry a basic eTrex for track logging and in case I become unsure of my location.

In reply to Fman:

another vote for a paper map and an etrex for the handheld

other people have already said why

In reply to rallymania: I bought the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx. I was the original Luddite and vowed never to own one. Having had it just over 12 months now, I love it, but still ALWAYS carry a map and compass as my primary mode of navigation.

In reply to Fman: If you get the etrex H (basic) £70/80 you'll also need the USB data cable £30 and any optional Mapping software (memorymap, anquet etc.) £30, so that'll push your spend upto the etrex Vista model price bracket - which I believe comes with a USB cable but not sure how much/if any mapping. Field & Trek were doing the Memorymap National Parks edition for £15 at some of their stores, worth a sniff as once you've got the main software you can then 'find' the rest of the maps online for nothing and download (via Bitlord etc.) to get full UK coverage-all highly illegal of course and I would never condone any such activities...

In reply to Fman:

If you've got a 'smart phone' I can recommend Viewranger. This a fantastic application which uses your phones GPS to show where you on an OS Map and provides you with a 10 digit grid reference. It is so good and so much easier you use I have just sold my Garmin eTrex Vista HCX. Viewranger costs £24.99 and that provides you with all the UK National Parks at 1:50,000 scale. Additional sheets can be purchased at whatever scale you require for £4.

One the best pieces of software I have found for a long time.

In reply to TMM:

Should add that I now use this system in conjunction with a proper map at 1:25,000 scale. The phone is a great for a quick glance, snail trail, distance traveled, speed etc and the map for bearings and micro nav.

In reply to Fman:

Another recommendation for Viewranger. Simply superb piece of software. Available now for Symbian S60 based phones (e.g. Nokia), and will be available soon on iPhone and Android. Software is basically free - you get it when you buy a package of maps. You can get OS maps at 1:50000 or 1:25000 and you can download map tiles over the air as and when you need them (stored on phone so you always have offline access). Not just UK - I've used it with French IGN 1:25000 in the Alps. I also strap my phone to my bike stem and use it for following GPS bike routes, both on and off road. Works perfectly - lots of functionality for walkers and bikers. If you already own a smartphone with GPS, then I would not consider buying a separate device because Viewranger works so well.

In reply to brale:

The killer app for me is that is actually shows your position on proper OS Map and to get that functionality on any dedicated GPS device will cost you over £300 for the unit and mapping. I swear they could charge 3 or 4 times the price and it would still be the best deal out there.

In reply to TMM:

As I previously said, it is very simple to run OS maps with full GPS functions (position, tracking) on a car sat nav unit that costs no more than 50 quid. If you want to know how, then pm me, details ar not suitable for this forum. This cannot be done on any Garmin ETrex, and the outdoor GPS market is just a rip off.

In reply to Fman: another vote for etrex ( i have a summit ) . Like all the books say always have spare batteries and you wont have a problem. easy to use clear display and i have mine attached to a lanyard on my belt loop for ease of access when walking.No probs with it at all

In reply to Fman:
I've got an eTrex Vista. I'm still getting to grips with it but i've downloaded contour data as per the SMC page which is quite good.
http://www.smc.org.uk/GPSDataV3.php
http://www.paulmac.force9.co.uk/geo/index.html

The fact the model is reasonably tough (compared to a touch screen) & it was powered by a couple of AA's was the seller for me.

My primary navigation is with a map. the GPS is just there as a back up.

The only thing that will make me totally happy is figuring out how to get all roads onto the display/PC software.

In reply to jonoh:

Does the basic etrex give you an accurate altitude reading? If so how accurate is this in practice, will it replace an altimeter (except for reading pressure for weather forecasting, of course).

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

The basic eTrex doesn't have an altimeter. I have an old eTrex Summit which does have an altimeter of questionable accuracy - it seems to lag quite a long way behind my altimeter wristw*tch.

(I know, way too many gadgets...)

In reply to tony:

I thought you got the altitude from the satellites as well as the position? I've only ever used one on a boat which, obviously, always showed zero for altitude. Don't the basic etrex ones give you this reading? I don't mean the built in pressure based altimeter on some expensive ones.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

I thought that too when I first started looking at GPSs, but I was wrong - there doesn't seem to be a facility to get an altitude fix from the satellites. I'm sure it is possible with the right technology, but an eTrex doesn't do it.

I think I remember someone explaining that an altitude found using a satellite fix was less accurate than a barometric fix (but I could have that the wrong way round, and it was a few years ago, and technology has improved).

In reply to tony:

Thanks... just trying to look for an excuse to buy one, but I think I'll resist a little longer It was the altitude reading that could have pushed me towards buying something I don't need.

In reply to Fman:

Another vote for the proper map and a cheap GPS (I've got a Garmin Gecko, which would probably retail at £2.99 if they still made them). It sits switched off in my rucsac until I'm well and truly lost, at which point it comes out, gives me a grid ref, and gets switched off again.

In reply to tony:

My Etrex (about 6 yrs old) gives an altitude reading from a GPS fix. Proves to be more reliable than various barometric-fed watches that i've owned over the years...

In reply to Bruce Hooker: i found only a couple of metres variation, however 90% of the time accurate to OS maps. like many have said its no replacement for map and compass proficiency

In reply to Ridge:

Have you tried using it yet this year? Gekos have somewhat lost the plot in 2010. Doesn't affect ability to report position, although it can take a long time to get a satellite fix from cold:

http://www.gpspassion.com/FORUMSEN/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=132684

In reply to Turdus torquatus:

Agreed on the getting a fix from cold, but not had any issues. I gave it a test last week, switched it on and left it on the car roof whilst we got sorted and it got a good fix in a few mins. Turned it off and then on again a few hours later and it was fairly rapid in getting a fix. I think as long as it's had an initial satellite fix it's much quicker on startup.

If something newer and shinier is available cheap I might get a new one though.

In reply to tony:

My eTrex does. You may need to change the information displayed on the data screen. The manual explains how to do this. The number of different options is fairly mind-boggling, from "where am I?" through "how fast am I going?" to "how long will it take me to get to the next waypoint with one leg tied behind my back?"


The altitude given by a satellite fix is less accurate than the position (lat/long, GR or whatever) from the satellite fix. (I'm not sure whether WAAS helps altitude accuracy as much as positional accuracy, if at all.)

Barometric altimeters are affected by changes in sea-level atmospheric pressure (ie weather) and also by the fact that their altitude calculations have to make assumptions about air temperature and how it changes with altitude. However, you can re-calibrate a barometric altimeter when you are at points of known altitude. You can't do that with a GPS altitude reading. To be fair, I don't think you would be very likely to want to: errors in satellite-derived altitude readings are not likely to be particularly consistent between readings, they will tend to jump around a bit, unlike a barometric altimeter which is more likely drift slowly out of calibration a bit like a clock that runs consistently a little bit fast (or slow).

If I wanted to keep track of my altitude on a long vertical climb I think I would tend to favour a barometric altimeter, especially if there were reference points of known altitude on the route. Plus you have things like number of pitches climbed as a check. But that's probably just me being a luddite.

In reply to Fman: One for sale here

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=401613&new=5765369#x5765369

In reply to Martin W:

i do similar, i find that winter climbing, the weather in in constant change and the altiude given on a GPS is more a close guess than a given. Useful though, I ofter calibrate to zero at the foot of a route and use the altitude gained as a rough guide to how far up the route I am

In reply to Martin W:

I was thinking more of helping navigate on glaciers. If you use altitude and a good map (IGN 1/25000 for example) knowing your altitude would help, especially as ice features change a bit over the years... I had an altimeter but someone "borrowed" it and I can't really justify buying one, or a GPS with built in barometric altimeter. Not essential for the amount I would use it though.

In reply to Martin W:

This suggest that a calibrated barometric altimeter is a better bet than a GPS altimeter:
http://gpsinformation.net/main/altitude.htm

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Hi Bruce... it's the helpful me this time

For altitude without buying an altimeter, I find my suunto watch is more than adequate.. have used it on rescues it white out conditions to help locate An Dorus and also to chart progress up those never ending false summits... as always though, needs calibrating before setting off etc etc.

PS. The cheeky bit of me can't resist suggesting that the watch might also bring you up to date! (Sorry for that)

In reply to Raskye:

It'll take more than a fancy watch to do that!

In reply to tony:

It also says: Generally, Altitude error is specified to be 1.5 x Horizontal error specification. Which is pretty much what I said.

I didn't actually say anything about whether GPS or barometric altimeter was better, just that I would opt for a barometric altimeter on a long vertical climb. I note that the aticle you reference also says: The similar "best" arrangement for vertical position is with one SV overhead and the others at the horizon and 120 degrees in azimuth apart. Obviously, this arrangement is very poor from a signal standpoint. Not only is it poor from a signal standpoint, it is pretty much impossible to get if you are halfway up a cliff since the GPS' view of approximately half the horizon will be blocked by solid rock!

In reply to Raskye:

How does the watch measure altitude though, on atmospheric pressure? If so it must be pricey?

PS. I'm as up to date as I need to be, thankyou very much, just bought new skis and boots, but the problem is getting the time to use them. PPS. You see, it doesn't really hurt to be civil, even with "older people"

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Yep... it's not too pricey... http://www.fitnessboutique.co.uk/heart-fat-monitor/outdoor-computer/SUUNTO-... ... no idea if that outlet is ok though... seems way cheaper than others.

PS.. You must've missed the bit where I told you (Sean actually) that I'm only a few years younger!

In reply to Raskye:

Looking at the add it must be an atmospheric device... Looks handy but a GPS must be about the same price... my problem with watches is I always lose them, I seem to take better care of a mobile phone for some reason.... age again probably.

As for the rest, I did see what you said, the thread seems to have disappeared so I suppose it must have degenerated further during the day. No great loss though

In reply to Turdus torquatus:
I also have a geko and use it mostly for geocaching with, when I can be looking for something film-can-sized on a mostly featureless hillside. Been working fine for that this year, not noticed owt different. Was out letterboxing with it on Sunday, teamed up with a friend who's using an etrex he bought last October - we were an average of about three feet from each other as regards GZ.

WRT the link you posted, have just turned it on and, while it can't get a position fix (not surprising, given that I'm in the middle of a concrete building) it's showing the correct date and time. I haven't noticed any date/time errors yet this year, and I think I'd have noticed as I usually use it to remind myself what the date is when I'm signing cache logbooks . . .

In reply to Martin W:

Since 1st October EGNOS (European equivalent of WAAS) has been fully operational and certified for "safety critical applications such as flying aircraft". It is accurate to 1 to 2 meters horizontally and 2 to 4 meters vertically so ideal for precision approaches for which it has been designed. (I believe the first trial precision IAP [LPV] is underway at Heathrow)

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/397179-gps-altitude.html

Regards

D

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Bruce, The Suunto Vector is indeed an electronic barometric altimeter built in to a watch.


You can certainly get a handheld GPS (eg Garmin eTrex) for less than a Vector. However, you can also get other altimeter watches for less than the Vector - Lidl were doing one earlier this year for £20! http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=396290&v=1#x5705515

A classic cheap altimeter watch used to be the Syncronic Echomaster which always seemed to be popping up at sale time on the Cotswold or F&T web sites. That one seems to have disappeared from the market these days, though. The Casio ones are poor value IMHO compared to the functionality offered by equivalently-priced Suunto watches.

Google and eB*y will probably turn up other cheap altimeter watch offerings - but then it sounded like you would actually prefer a hand-held device rather than a watch. You can, of course, get hand-held and pendant-style altimeters as well as watch-style ones, eg http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=altimeter&scoring=p

Note that a lot of these devices also have an electronic compass built-in. These are well known for draining batteries at an alarming rate - far from ideal for following a bearing in a white-out. Another thing to bear in mind is that if the device has a thermometer, it can only record the temperature of its immediate surroundings. For a device that you wear on your wrist, that means the temperature of your wrist, not the atmospheric temperature (sounds obvious, but some people don't seem to get it).

In reply to Fman: I have one of them yellow one's works great, cost me £99 last year doesn't have any maps on it, much prefer the paper ones...

In reply to kluz: sorry for being a bit of a pedant there it is an etrex, what I do is scan the bit of map I am going to use put the eastings and northings on it, cover it with that sticky back plastic stuff and carry a basic silva with me. If you don't keep it switched on it will easily last for several days on one set of batteries...

In reply to Fman:
I love my Garmin eTrex Legend:
not sure how much it costs as i won mine.
with the right software you can torrent free maps.