UKC

Looking for opinions on what people think are the hardest E2's close to Edinburgh. trying to crack this grade properly and would like to know whats considered hard/soft for the grade, here is a graded list so far, what do people think:

HARD
Shear Fear
Philistine
Welcome to the Cruise
Colours Fly
Wally 1
New Gold Dream
Rebel Without Claws
Elgins Crack
Sedge Warbler
Cats whiskers
Chalk and Cheese
SOFT

where would these end up:
Return of the King
grasp the nettle
cruel summer
if pigs could fly
Marleys ghost
The sting

Any other suggestion would be welcome

In reply to jamface:

Wally 1 was originally graded E3 6a. It's probably technically the hardest of the list.

Welcome to the cruise started as E2 but was downgraded to E1. I think it's E2 though.

Sedge warbler is solid E2.

Pete's Wall which is graded E1 is actually E3 inmho for the ground fall if nothing else. I know you haven't listed it but thought I should mention it in case you were tempted...

In reply to jamface:
Return of the King is pushing E3. Rubbish gear and fragile holds at the top.

Trist

In reply to Removed User: surprised about Wally 1, would you push sedge warbler up the list then?

I'd considered looking at Pete's wall, is it effectively a solo as thats the way it appears from the ground

In reply to jamface:
hmm not having done all your list can only subjectively rate the following:

HARD
Wally 1
Return of the King
Shear Fear
Elgins Crack
Gobi Roof
Rebel Without Claws
Welcome to the Cruise
grasp the nettle
New Gold Dream
SOFT

Philistine (surely this is really a boulder prob?)

I reckon that if you manage Shear Fear, Elgins Crack and Gobi Roof then you have a good handle on local E2

In reply to jamface:

Obviously, it depends on which of the following things you find difficult: technical moves, pumpy sections, boldness etc.

I'd say I'm a fair all-rounder and my graded list of those routes would be:

Hard - Technical

Cruel Summer (More slippery than technical!)
Trailblazer
Gobi Roof
Sedge Warbler
Welcome to the Cruise (memories of this route are vague)

Hard – Pumpy
Shear Fear

Hard – Bold
Grasp the nettle
Colours Fly

Soft –
Elgin's Crack (all over after a boulder problem start)
Arse on Stumps (never E3 in a month of Sundays)
Beanpud (E1, but harder than those below…)
New Gold Dream

It’s a while since I climbed any of these though.

In reply to jamface:

Maybe it's just me but I'd give Return of the King and Cruel Summer E1 5b. The gear seemed quite adequate on both.

In reply to jamface:

In contrast I'd say the rest of the E2s at Limekilns are fairly desperate!

In reply to jamface: In that case, any suggestions of good first E3s? I found Wally 1 fairly straightforward so anything similar to that would be good. considering through the motions or the struggler so far, any advances?

In reply to jamface:

Sheer Fear is piss easy - full of bomber gear and good rests on jams and jugs.

Elgin's Crack is also piss easy - easy climbing and loads of gear, should be E1 5b really.

Return Of The King is - guess what - piss easy - easy climbing and loads of gear, again E1/2 5b/c border.

Gobi Roof is hard because the crux move is hard - benchmark "5d"

Cruel Summer is middle of the grade.

All good routes though!!

In reply to Michael Gordon: I think Cruel Summer is middle E2 5c, ceratinly by Limekilns standards. Not sure what the other "desperate" ones are? Elgins Crack is quite soft for the grade I think, steady and well protected once you do the first couple of moves off the ground. Grasp the Nettle and New Gold Dream are both about right at E2 5b too, neither has terribly hard climbing but both feel a bit bold on their respective cruxes (think you would be unlucky to get really hurt on either actually). I would stick them somewhere in the lower half of the grade.

As for the ratho routes, agree that Wally 1 is quite tricky and technical for E2 (but very safe on the hardest bit) and that Shear Fear would go somewhere in the upper end just for pump factor.

In reply to neil the weak:

Well I walked up Cruel Summer but tried most of the other E2s including Elgin's Crack and couldn't make much headway with them at all. I suppose it just shows that different routes play to different strengths?

In reply to Michael Gordon: I thought all the E2's at the Limekilns are pretty basic at the grade. The quality of gear varys, but the climbing is consistant. Grasp the Nettle is about 5+/6a climbing but not much gear. If your doing well on Ratho routes, then strongarm is an easy E3 to start. Safe and cruxy. Limekilns just need time to get used to the style of climbing. Philistine is a V3 boulder problem really. Pigs can fly? at rosyth is the hardest E2 close to Edinburgh I think I've done. But very good.

happy crankin'

In reply to jamface:

For yer first E3:
Leave The Struggler til summer - the crack is greasy as hell
If you found Wally 1 no problem, you will enjoy Methods of Dance, while Through the Motions is a bit tougher.

Then man-up and do Gruel Brittania

In reply to Dr Toph: haha, tried Gruel britannia, couldn't get off the floor! will have a look at methods of dance next time I'm there.

In reply to Fiend:
Are we talking Return of the King at Auchinstarry here? Maybe either I was off route or its had its top levered off in the last 24 months, but its no way soft touch or good gear! The corner was fine but its very sandy and snappy at the top.

I fell from the last move cos a hold snapped, and I ended up on the deck as all the "good" gear ripped.

Trist

In reply to Michael Gordon:

You'd think this would be fairly obvious to everyone, but people often seem to forget it!

Re. Edinburgh E2s, I don't think any I've done really felt top of the grade, though Gobi Roof has a hard crux and Shear Fear and Cruel Summer are both up there for pumpiness.

As for local E3s, I haven't managed to lead any of them yet without a rest, but I'd say that The Struggler, Through the Motions and Gruel Brittania all up the difficulty and pump-factor significantly!

In reply to Smelly Fox:

It may have been altered in the last two years, I don't know. When I did it recently, I don't think it had been climbed this season, there was sand on some holds and dead gorse blocking the top. However there was plentiful gear with Peenuts and small cams, I think I had 4 bits above the rest ledge, and the moves were 5b (5b/c move low down in the groove). Maybe your rock destruction left a better hold.

Anyone who thinks Shear Fear is remotely pumpy needs to LEARN HOW TO JAM (and shake out on jugs).

Gruel Brittania is solid at the grade, and brilliant.

In reply to andy moles: most on the Limekiln's E2's are around the 6a+ mark, the top end E3's like the struggler are about 6b/+. It is the safest E3 at the Limekilns though. Methods of Dance is one of the easiest ones, but the gear is fiddly at the bottom. Both versions have good climbing on them. Through the motions has a short sharp crux at the bottom then 5a/b climbing to the top and pretty good gear.

In reply to Removed User:

Welcome to the Cruise was always E1, when did it become E2?

In reply to Fiend:

That's like saying 'anyone who thinks Grasp the Nettle is remotely bold needs to GET BETTER AT RUNOUTS'.

It may be true, but that's how the majority of climbers at the grade find it. If everyone's all round skills were such that nothing on an E2 felt hard then they'd be able to climb a lot harder.

In reply to andy moles:

Which is all well and good except Shear Fear is E1 really.

In reply to bentley's biceps: After the M8/centre works!?

Jam try "Petes Wall" at ratho which I reckon is now hard e2 after losing holds/gear and doesn't get many ascents.

Further away from Edinburgh "Tubigripper" the the souter is easy, so is "Magic Flute" at back bowden. Few nice e2s at camby "Gobi Roof" being the classic, still to get on trail blazer there which also looks great. Dunkled has a load as well, "Warfrin", "Corpse, "The Way Through". "Return of the king" at starry also looks amazing.

In reply to Fiend:

If you like. Looking at grade conversion charts there's probably a good argument for completely removing the E2 grade anyway (HVS-E2 is very condensed relative to other grading systems).

Sounds like one to hold back for a rainy day on UKC

In reply to jamface:

If you climb at ratho alot "Strong Arm" if you like pump tech, or "Ane Ledge" if you like run out tech.

In reply to andymoin:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember the crux being the top bit where it was a little run out? I'm not sure how the works would alter it?

In reply to bentley's biceps: Aye the technical crux is right at the top, but its after the mental crux, which is the 6m runout from the jugs in the lower groove to the final short crux crack, though you might be abe to fiddle some wires in the crack a few metres above the ledge I guess, but it still wouldn't be E1!

In reply to andymoin: Strongarm is not pumpy. It's bouldery for about five moves, one one of which is hard. Ane ledge is safe as houses if you have loads of micros, they are all bomber. If you want hard E2, if pigs could fly at Rosyth is a good one.