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Hi,
Looking to extend our rack!
Currenly use 1 and a half sets of nuts + an extra big one! (not sure of sizes offhand!)
Plus the usual slings, krabs etc.
Looking to purchase more 'protection' - currenly climb single pitch up to VS usually (and the occasional HVS!). Looking to do some easyer multi pitch routes and longer singles. Got a weeks hol booked in the lake district this summer also
Wondering whether it would be best to purchase either
- a set of 3 cams
- set of torque nuts
- set of tri cams
Which would be the next best thing do you think? Dont want to go mental and buy lots of different equiptment - like to get happily using one thing before purchasing others!
Thanks,
Lynsey.
Looking to extend our rack!
Currenly use 1 and a half sets of nuts + an extra big one! (not sure of sizes offhand!)
Plus the usual slings, krabs etc.
Looking to purchase more 'protection' - currenly climb single pitch up to VS usually (and the occasional HVS!). Looking to do some easyer multi pitch routes and longer singles. Got a weeks hol booked in the lake district this summer also
Wondering whether it would be best to purchase either
- a set of 3 cams
- set of torque nuts
- set of tri cams
Which would be the next best thing do you think? Dont want to go mental and buy lots of different equiptment - like to get happily using one thing before purchasing others!
Thanks,
Lynsey.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Hi. Needlesports.com have some good advice on racks, perhaps also planetfear.com
(sorry, can't copy links). HTH
Hi. Needlesports.com have some good advice on racks, perhaps also planetfear.com
(sorry, can't copy links). HTH
In reply to lynsey.a:
tri cams.
eventually you will get cams - it happens to all of us.
but a season or two on tri cams first will open you up to placements and dynamic possibilities that will greatly flesh out your perspective.
plus they will be 1/3 of the price so you can spend the extra on that holiday.
tri cams.
eventually you will get cams - it happens to all of us.
but a season or two on tri cams first will open you up to placements and dynamic possibilities that will greatly flesh out your perspective.
plus they will be 1/3 of the price so you can spend the extra on that holiday.
In reply to lynsey.a: I myself would go for the Torque Nuts, as I much prefer placing a good hex than a cam anyday, but thats personal preferance.
James
James
In reply to lynsey.a:
I haven't tried torque nuts per se - I guess they are not radically different from other hexes (though they look nicer in a few ways). Any of your options will open up more routes you can protect; my choice would be informed by route(s) I've seen that I want to do.
Tricams are the most versatile - if you get one/some smaller ones you can protect smaller parallel cracks than you could with hexes, and if you get larger ones you can protect large cracks that you would have used a hex in. Tricams are also the most fiddly to place (which becomes more of an issue placing from strenuous positions).
I haven't tried torque nuts per se - I guess they are not radically different from other hexes (though they look nicer in a few ways). Any of your options will open up more routes you can protect; my choice would be informed by route(s) I've seen that I want to do.
Tricams are the most versatile - if you get one/some smaller ones you can protect smaller parallel cracks than you could with hexes, and if you get larger ones you can protect large cracks that you would have used a hex in. Tricams are also the most fiddly to place (which becomes more of an issue placing from strenuous positions).
In reply to lynsey.a:
Personally I'd go for 1.5, 2 and 2.5 cams and then you'd essentially have my rack. I've not used hexes (other than for winter climbing) since 1982. Tobe be fair, I have recently added a .5 and a 1 cam, but that's it.
Personally I'd go for 1.5, 2 and 2.5 cams and then you'd essentially have my rack. I've not used hexes (other than for winter climbing) since 1982. Tobe be fair, I have recently added a .5 and a 1 cam, but that's it.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Go for the big rocks 11-14, rather than the hex/torque, if on a budget. A bit es
easier to place, if your used to nuts.
Never used tri cams, so can't comment. Climbed up to e1 on grit without cams....
If you have a hundred quid ish, joe browns are doing dmm 4cu sets of 3 for about £90 and you choose the size.
Go for the big rocks 11-14, rather than the hex/torque, if on a budget. A bit es
easier to place, if your used to nuts.
Never used tri cams, so can't comment. Climbed up to e1 on grit without cams....
If you have a hundred quid ish, joe browns are doing dmm 4cu sets of 3 for about £90 and you choose the size.
In reply to lynsey.a:
no to offend all the tri-cam advocates but I think you'd be better suited to getting a set of torque nut's or Cams. In the long term you'll find torque nut's much more useful.
Are for narrow crack protection you've already got it covered with your wires.
Next I'd get a set of size 1,2 & 3 cam.
no to offend all the tri-cam advocates but I think you'd be better suited to getting a set of torque nut's or Cams. In the long term you'll find torque nut's much more useful.
Are for narrow crack protection you've already got it covered with your wires.
Next I'd get a set of size 1,2 & 3 cam.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Cams or hexes.
Kind of depends what routes / rock types you will be climbing on a bit too.
I want some tri-cams, but haven't really missed them so far - I just like the simplicity of them (not saying they are simple to place btw).
I would really miss my cams though.
And the feeling of security when you get a bomber hex in just can't be beat!
Si
Cams or hexes.
Kind of depends what routes / rock types you will be climbing on a bit too.
I want some tri-cams, but haven't really missed them so far - I just like the simplicity of them (not saying they are simple to place btw).
I would really miss my cams though.
And the feeling of security when you get a bomber hex in just can't be beat!
Si
In reply to lynsey.a:
What you buy depends on where you climb - certain types of rock tend to lend themselves t odifferent types of gear, for instance micro nuts are very useful here in Guernsey as the Gneiss tends to have very small cracks all over the place.
I think small tricams (pink and below) are useful for pockety cracks and holes.
I prefer big friends to big hexes as I don't like the way hexes are difficult to seat firmly.
If you're thinking of cams then borrow different sorts to see which models you prefer.
YMMV however.
What you buy depends on where you climb - certain types of rock tend to lend themselves t odifferent types of gear, for instance micro nuts are very useful here in Guernsey as the Gneiss tends to have very small cracks all over the place.
I think small tricams (pink and below) are useful for pockety cracks and holes.
I prefer big friends to big hexes as I don't like the way hexes are difficult to seat firmly.
If you're thinking of cams then borrow different sorts to see which models you prefer.
YMMV however.
In reply to mlmatt: Hey Matt - how you doing? Saw Iain at the weekend and he's starting to get out again... I've not used torque nuts but I have used hexes of various different types over the years. I personally would say that tricams are hugely versatile and will provide more options than any hex ever would infact I've thanked god and all his angels and saints that I was carrying tricams rather than hexes on many occasions when I have been winter climbing. Having said that they do get heavy at the larger end of the scale. You often find that with tricams you'll get a bomber placement where absolutely nothing else would even come close to working. So what I would say is if you are limited on cash, get some large torque nuts i.e. the largest sizes, and tricams 1,2 and 3. That way you have a very versatile set of gear which covers all sizes...
In reply to lynsey.a: Get a set of cams.
In reply to Aigen:
that would be my vote, and I was quite surprised that a number of posters suggest otherwise. Maybe things have moved on, and i'll have to have a look at tri-cams.
that would be my vote, and I was quite surprised that a number of posters suggest otherwise. Maybe things have moved on, and i'll have to have a look at tri-cams.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Another vote for tricams - they're not hard to place or remove once you're used to them and they're very versatile - you won't regret having them
Another vote for tricams - they're not hard to place or remove once you're used to them and they're very versatile - you won't regret having them
In reply to csw:
When i first used tricams I wasn't sure about them but once you get to know their limitations they can be bomber, never found use for them on grit but definitely on limestone.
When i first used tricams I wasn't sure about them but once you get to know their limitations they can be bomber, never found use for them on grit but definitely on limestone.
In reply to lynsey.a: I haven't added cams to my rack yet but I do have torque nuts and will sing their praises all day long. There is a bit of a knack to getting them to seat well but once they are in they are very secure, they also go *anywhere*. However, I'm not sure they will provide you with anything that a set of cams wouldn't anyway.
In reply to JackPott: placing a hex has to be the easiest thing on the rack to place. what's the knack?
I would go for hexes, the torque nut cover a good range in 4 pieces which sounds good for you. then some cams, if the issue is money. there aren't many routes (i can't think of any) that you need tri cams. Im just moving into HVS after a long break and I find I place more cams than hexes these days. i wasn't worried about money so I got master cams 0...6 and some torque nuts. prior to that my rack consisted of 2 sets of nuts a sling!
I would go for hexes, the torque nut cover a good range in 4 pieces which sounds good for you. then some cams, if the issue is money. there aren't many routes (i can't think of any) that you need tri cams. Im just moving into HVS after a long break and I find I place more cams than hexes these days. i wasn't worried about money so I got master cams 0...6 and some torque nuts. prior to that my rack consisted of 2 sets of nuts a sling!
In reply to lynsey.a: hi Lynsey- this does not answer your question- but I would recommend a set 1-6 of Superlights (I always seem to call them 1/2 rocks).Only £60 for the set and they take up little extra room- I've climbed on various rock types since getting them last year and always find them usefull. Hope this helps.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Cams no question, the other two choices are nice but are really specialist kit. Many routes now are graded assuming some cams.
Cams no question, the other two choices are nice but are really specialist kit. Many routes now are graded assuming some cams.
In reply to lynsey.a:
i would go for cams. Say a half set of dragons for £140 from rock and run
i would go for cams. Say a half set of dragons for £140 from rock and run
In reply to lynsey.a:
I would go for some cams. For instant BD 0.5/0.75/1
They were the first cams I bought after using only nuts and hexes.
I use them all the time. There is hardly a route where you can't place them.
Succes with your decision. Michael
I would go for some cams. For instant BD 0.5/0.75/1
They were the first cams I bought after using only nuts and hexes.
I use them all the time. There is hardly a route where you can't place them.
Succes with your decision. Michael
In reply to lynsey.a:
I definately wouldn't buy the tricams and I own and regularly use a set.
I'd definately get the cams over anything else and if you get an option go for the slightly larger sizes of cams (a 1,2,3 would be better than a 0.5,1.5,2.5) as you currently are a bit lacking in larger gear by the sounds of it. In cracks that are not good for nuts tricams will not provide good placements in as many cracks that cams will. If the nose of a tricam is not sitting in a hollow or against a ledge it will sometimes seem like it is an ok placement however it can still have a possibility of ripping when a cam would not have. Conversely there are placements which are too shallow for cams that tricams would fit in, but these are much rarer to be critical placements IMO.
Your next bit of kit after the cams should likely be a few medium/large hexes and then some micro cams. Save the tricams as an experiment to see if you like them after that, it could save you having to buy as many cams in the long run.
By the way well done leading HVS on 1.5 sets of nuts you're braver than me!
I definately wouldn't buy the tricams and I own and regularly use a set.
I'd definately get the cams over anything else and if you get an option go for the slightly larger sizes of cams (a 1,2,3 would be better than a 0.5,1.5,2.5) as you currently are a bit lacking in larger gear by the sounds of it. In cracks that are not good for nuts tricams will not provide good placements in as many cracks that cams will. If the nose of a tricam is not sitting in a hollow or against a ledge it will sometimes seem like it is an ok placement however it can still have a possibility of ripping when a cam would not have. Conversely there are placements which are too shallow for cams that tricams would fit in, but these are much rarer to be critical placements IMO.
Your next bit of kit after the cams should likely be a few medium/large hexes and then some micro cams. Save the tricams as an experiment to see if you like them after that, it could save you having to buy as many cams in the long run.
By the way well done leading HVS on 1.5 sets of nuts you're braver than me!
In reply to CurlyStevo:
another option could be to get a middle size cam (say a friend 1.5 sort of size) and a couple of hexes and go from there but I can see the attraction of saving some money by getting 3 cams in a oner.
another option could be to get a middle size cam (say a friend 1.5 sort of size) and a couple of hexes and go from there but I can see the attraction of saving some money by getting 3 cams in a oner.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Your question as posed is trivially easy to answer, it would be best to buy 3 dragon Cams or 3 BD Camalots.
However, you haven't really got a good basis for comparison as the cost varies considerably:
DMM 4CUs (1,2,3) - SRP £100 or Dragon Cams (2-4) - SRP £140
Torque nuts - SRP £55
Tricams (set of 4 on dyneema) - SRP £70H
In terms of utility, on most routes 4 Torque Nuts are easily more useful than 1 cam, so if you are really strapped for cash go for the Torque Nuts so you have the full size range of protection covered.
> Wondering whether it would be best to purchase either
> - a set of 3 cams
> - set of torque nuts
> - set of tri cams
> - a set of 3 cams
> - set of torque nuts
> - set of tri cams
Your question as posed is trivially easy to answer, it would be best to buy 3 dragon Cams or 3 BD Camalots.
However, you haven't really got a good basis for comparison as the cost varies considerably:
DMM 4CUs (1,2,3) - SRP £100 or Dragon Cams (2-4) - SRP £140
Torque nuts - SRP £55
Tricams (set of 4 on dyneema) - SRP £70H
In terms of utility, on most routes 4 Torque Nuts are easily more useful than 1 cam, so if you are really strapped for cash go for the Torque Nuts so you have the full size range of protection covered.
In reply to lynsey.a:
Don't get Tri Cams. They're great, but really rather specialised bits of kit. Certainly no substitute for cams/hexes, which should make up the back bone of everyone's rack.
I'd get three cams and a gold hex (Rocentric 7 and Torque 3).
Which models you get and in what sizes is up to, personal preference, budget and where you climb.
If you generally climb on mountain rock then sizes 0.5, 1.5 and 2.5 would probably be a great starting point.
If you climb more on Gritstone or granite then you'd probably be better off with either sizes 1, 2 and 3. Or maybe even 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5.
NB - I'm working on standard friend/4cu sizes here.
Camalots and Dragon Cams are fantastic bits of kit, but are loads more expensive than DMM 4CUs. You could probably get 4/5 DMM 4cus for the same price.
The Climber's Shop in Ambleside has 25% off BD gear at moment, offering huge savings on Camalots: http://www.climbers-shop.com/256658/products/Black_Diamond_C4_Camalots.aspx
Oh and don't discount Wild Country Technical Friends.
At the end of day if you buy a cams from any of the big four manufacturers (BD, DMM, WC and Metolius) you won't be disappointed and none of them will hold you back.
HTH
Don't get Tri Cams. They're great, but really rather specialised bits of kit. Certainly no substitute for cams/hexes, which should make up the back bone of everyone's rack.
I'd get three cams and a gold hex (Rocentric 7 and Torque 3).
Which models you get and in what sizes is up to, personal preference, budget and where you climb.
If you generally climb on mountain rock then sizes 0.5, 1.5 and 2.5 would probably be a great starting point.
If you climb more on Gritstone or granite then you'd probably be better off with either sizes 1, 2 and 3. Or maybe even 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5.
NB - I'm working on standard friend/4cu sizes here.
Camalots and Dragon Cams are fantastic bits of kit, but are loads more expensive than DMM 4CUs. You could probably get 4/5 DMM 4cus for the same price.
The Climber's Shop in Ambleside has 25% off BD gear at moment, offering huge savings on Camalots: http://www.climbers-shop.com/256658/products/Black_Diamond_C4_Camalots.aspx
Oh and don't discount Wild Country Technical Friends.
At the end of day if you buy a cams from any of the big four manufacturers (BD, DMM, WC and Metolius) you won't be disappointed and none of them will hold you back.
HTH
In reply to lynsey.a: Another vote for Cams first. Though I have a full set of Tech Friends from 0-5, and wouldn't use any thing else for grit, if I were buying from scratch now I'd go for DMM Dragon cams. After that I love my Tri- cams, but they are a bit more niche. Whoever said they are never used on grit is certainly missing on many placements that only they will fit for. Some thing you've not listed, but could be worth considering after bigger crack protection could be a set of off- set nuts: a set of pee-nuts and the DMM re- do of the HB off sets...
In reply to lynsey.a: Hi.
i have only just got cams at the start of the season and have used my hexes little since getting cams. i do prefer the torque nuts over rockcentrics, but i only have one of each and the rest of my hexs are old camp ones.
for cam sizes i got sizes 2, 2.5, 3, 4 of the DMM 4cu's and wish i'd got a size 1 as well.
as for try cams i've used them a fair bit as one of my friends has them. they are good but placements where they are critical are nowhere near as common as cam or hex placements.
cams are also easier to place than hexs and offer placements in grooves as well as cracks whereas hexs will not always go into grooves.
the best bet would be to try and borrow a friends cams / hexs / tricams and deciede from there as to which you like best.
hope that helps and as always its personal preferance
i have only just got cams at the start of the season and have used my hexes little since getting cams. i do prefer the torque nuts over rockcentrics, but i only have one of each and the rest of my hexs are old camp ones.
for cam sizes i got sizes 2, 2.5, 3, 4 of the DMM 4cu's and wish i'd got a size 1 as well.
as for try cams i've used them a fair bit as one of my friends has them. they are good but placements where they are critical are nowhere near as common as cam or hex placements.
cams are also easier to place than hexs and offer placements in grooves as well as cracks whereas hexs will not always go into grooves.
the best bet would be to try and borrow a friends cams / hexs / tricams and deciede from there as to which you like best.
hope that helps and as always its personal preferance
In reply to the cassin ridge: Agreed, a medium hex or two pus some cams. Perfect for the lakes;
http://www.climbers-shop.com/352204/products/Wild_Country_Tech_Friend_Set_0...
http://www.climbers-shop.com/352204/products/Wild_Country_Tech_Friend_Set_0...
In reply to lynsey.a: I'd go for cams as previously suggested. One factor with multipitch climbing is the need for your belay to withstand an upward pull and the best way to achieve this is can be to place a cam.
Bear in mind that you need more of everything for multipitch, if only because you'll be using at least 3 bits of gear to belay off on each stance mid climb. The old style rocks are available for around £50 for a set of 1 -8. You may need to get some longer quick draws / "slingdraws". As posted earlier, it's well worth checking the advice on Needlesports website.
Bear in mind that you need more of everything for multipitch, if only because you'll be using at least 3 bits of gear to belay off on each stance mid climb. The old style rocks are available for around £50 for a set of 1 -8. You may need to get some longer quick draws / "slingdraws". As posted earlier, it's well worth checking the advice on Needlesports website.
Super info everyone - big help so thanks very much!
Also spoke to one of the guys in te climbing shop and he spoke to us about different cam makes and models.
I would say its looking good for the cams to be purchased next.
Once we get on to multipitch then the torque nuts will extend the range of our protection i think.
Really looking forward to the summers climbing!
Cheers!
Also spoke to one of the guys in te climbing shop and he spoke to us about different cam makes and models.
I would say its looking good for the cams to be purchased next.
Once we get on to multipitch then the torque nuts will extend the range of our protection i think.
Really looking forward to the summers climbing!
Cheers!
In reply to lynsey.a: Lynsey - get the cams - just work out what size you need based on the rock you climb on - if it's lime or igneous go smaller, if its grit or granite (yes I know that's igneous) go slightly larger... you won't regret it. And buy the best you can - you'll onl;y end up buying more if you buy really cheap...
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