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At the stage of beginning to consider climbing e1's. What are a selection of the best first extreme leads on grit?
In reply to tomhare: The ones that are HVS. In true UKC gritcentricity I give you:
Three Pebble Slab
The Crease
Three Pebble Slab
The Crease
In reply to Removed User:
Is Chequers Buttress E1 or HVS these days?
Other than that find something that plays to your strengths rather than weaknesses.
ALC
Is Chequers Buttress E1 or HVS these days?
Other than that find something that plays to your strengths rather than weaknesses.
ALC
In reply to tomhare:
It totally depends what your strengths are. If you've spent a lot of time bouldering then look for a route which has a hard boulder start and is easy the rest of the way. If you've got a decent head look for easy angled but run out E1 5as.
When breaking into another grade level it's always good to play to your strengths.
It totally depends what your strengths are. If you've spent a lot of time bouldering then look for a route which has a hard boulder start and is easy the rest of the way. If you've got a decent head look for easy angled but run out E1 5as.
When breaking into another grade level it's always good to play to your strengths.
In reply to tomhare: I would say one that's hard but protectable, most people ready to climb E1s are ready it's just head games, but it's nice to be safe.
In reply to Removed User:
I suspect the Crease originally followed a harder and more independant line just left (then later claimed by an HVS?) and for its time would have been serious. Agreed the modern line is HVS with modern pro.
For the OP I could suggest a tough HVS that probably should be E1. Ivory Tower, on Upper Tor might be a contender? We even put a list in the new Frogatt guide.
I suspect the Crease originally followed a harder and more independant line just left (then later claimed by an HVS?) and for its time would have been serious. Agreed the modern line is HVS with modern pro.
For the OP I could suggest a tough HVS that probably should be E1. Ivory Tower, on Upper Tor might be a contender? We even put a list in the new Frogatt guide.
In reply to tomhare:
I went down the technically soft but bold route to break into the grade but I wouldn't advise that.
My first E1 was Incursion at the North end of Stanage. Just about protected 5b move then easier climbing with groundfall potential. My second was 'Another game of bowls Sir Walter?' at Stanage Pop. Gear that would just about keep you off the deck if you had a good belayer for the 5b moves then easier and well protected above.
My 3rd was Easter Rib at Stanage Pop.
Instead,
on grit, Eros at Millstone or Left Unconquerable at Stanage, both well protected (I've seconded Eros and they're both on my to lead list).
Better would be The Arrow at St Govans in Pembroke, pumpy in places but well protected and not needing any weird and wonderful 'trick' techniques.
I went down the technically soft but bold route to break into the grade but I wouldn't advise that.
My first E1 was Incursion at the North end of Stanage. Just about protected 5b move then easier climbing with groundfall potential. My second was 'Another game of bowls Sir Walter?' at Stanage Pop. Gear that would just about keep you off the deck if you had a good belayer for the 5b moves then easier and well protected above.
My 3rd was Easter Rib at Stanage Pop.
Instead,
on grit, Eros at Millstone or Left Unconquerable at Stanage, both well protected (I've seconded Eros and they're both on my to lead list).
Better would be The Arrow at St Govans in Pembroke, pumpy in places but well protected and not needing any weird and wonderful 'trick' techniques.
In reply to tomhare:
The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. The gear placements are now worn to the extent that they are 'rock' shaped and you can't miss them. It's a proper route too, witrh a decent line to boot.
The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. The gear placements are now worn to the extent that they are 'rock' shaped and you can't miss them. It's a proper route too, witrh a decent line to boot.
In reply to tomhare: an easy one
In reply to tomhare:
Millsom's Minion was my first - 20 odd years ago.
Good route, good pro, soft touch, but still E1
Millsom's Minion was my first - 20 odd years ago.
Good route, good pro, soft touch, but still E1
In reply to tomhare:
My first E1 wasn't on grit but my mates first E1 was Greenacre at Curbar which seemed to me to be a bit bold and totally soft. My guess is that it would be better to go for a proper E1 like Safety Net which has loads of gear and reasts between the technical moves.
My first E1 wasn't on grit but my mates first E1 was Greenacre at Curbar which seemed to me to be a bit bold and totally soft. My guess is that it would be better to go for a proper E1 like Safety Net which has loads of gear and reasts between the technical moves.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
In reply to tomhare:
I think the best advice is to find a line that looks good and that you really want to do (and it helps if it plays to your strengths). Don't bother doing something because it is soft or someone else has recommended it etc. Do one that you'll remember and be proud of.
> At the stage of beginning to consider climbing e1's. What are a selection of the best first extreme leads on grit?
I think the best advice is to find a line that looks good and that you really want to do (and it helps if it plays to your strengths). Don't bother doing something because it is soft or someone else has recommended it etc. Do one that you'll remember and be proud of.
In reply to nniff:
hmm its E15b in the database so if it was ever HVS that must have been sometime ago. It is also atracting a lot of hard for the grade votes for an "easy" E1.
first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish). Of those mentioned the Arrow is well protected in its upper sections but the start is almost as hard as anything else on the route and is poorly protected over a cr@p landing and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly. Left Unconc is solid steady and obvious with good gear. You will take a fair whipper if you fluff the crux but its a good clean safe fall. Long tall sally is another nice and safe route with good wires at your feet on the crux and safer still with proper small gear.
> (In reply to tomhare)
>
> The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. The gear placements are now worn to the extent that they are 'rock' shaped and you can't miss them. It's a proper route too, witrh a decent line to boot.
>
> The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. The gear placements are now worn to the extent that they are 'rock' shaped and you can't miss them. It's a proper route too, witrh a decent line to boot.
hmm its E15b in the database so if it was ever HVS that must have been sometime ago. It is also atracting a lot of hard for the grade votes for an "easy" E1.
first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish). Of those mentioned the Arrow is well protected in its upper sections but the start is almost as hard as anything else on the route and is poorly protected over a cr@p landing and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly. Left Unconc is solid steady and obvious with good gear. You will take a fair whipper if you fluff the crux but its a good clean safe fall. Long tall sally is another nice and safe route with good wires at your feet on the crux and safer still with proper small gear.
In reply to GrahamD:
Well it is harder than TPS
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
>
> Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
>
> Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
Well it is harder than TPS
In reply to GrahamD:
got XS in the 60's guides...
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
>
> Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
>
> Has Chequers Buttress ever been E1 ? surely not ? its not even that hard for HVS.
got XS in the 60's guides...
In reply to davidwright:
There's two ways to start The Plum, either via a short corner or up easy ground to the right and traverse across. Let's just say that the corner is a bit of a shock at "easy E1"!
ALC
There's two ways to start The Plum, either via a short corner or up easy ground to the right and traverse across. Let's just say that the corner is a bit of a shock at "easy E1"!
ALC
In reply to davidwright:
Rubbish. If you are a bold climber with some technique, then a bold climb will suit you perfectly. It's only russian roulette if you are climbing at your limit without gear. If you are solid at HVS 5a, then E1 5a is only a very small step up.
It's an amazing route, and there is gear at the crux, but protecting the upper wall is difficult. I certainly wouldn't call this a 'safe' route, but it isn't dangerous either.
> (In reply to nniff)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
>
> first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish).
> first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish).
Rubbish. If you are a bold climber with some technique, then a bold climb will suit you perfectly. It's only russian roulette if you are climbing at your limit without gear. If you are solid at HVS 5a, then E1 5a is only a very small step up.
> Long tall sally is another nice and safe route with good wires at your feet on the crux and safer still with proper small gear.
It's an amazing route, and there is gear at the crux, but protecting the upper wall is difficult. I certainly wouldn't call this a 'safe' route, but it isn't dangerous either.
In reply to Monk: Hmmm. 3 small wires?
In reply to Monk:
If your climbing solidly at HVS 5a but no harder, soloing 5a moves is playing russian roulette, Your not good enough at 5a moves for the chance of a slip to be negligable. Personally I would rather push the grade on something where the chance of failure is a bit higher but the chance of a serious injury is a lot lower.
Once through the crux (i.e. you have got the pocket on the RH slab and good finger holds in the crack, which is the crux not getting round the overlap) there are good placements above and good holds to place them from. The crux grove is a bit thin but has adequate pro with micros, the upper wall is both easy and solidly protected.
> (In reply to davidwright)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Rubbish. If you are a bold climber with some technique, then a bold climb will suit you perfectly. It's only russian roulette if you are climbing at your limit without gear. If you are solid at HVS 5a, then E1 5a is only a very small step up.
>
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Rubbish. If you are a bold climber with some technique, then a bold climb will suit you perfectly. It's only russian roulette if you are climbing at your limit without gear. If you are solid at HVS 5a, then E1 5a is only a very small step up.
>
>
If your climbing solidly at HVS 5a but no harder, soloing 5a moves is playing russian roulette, Your not good enough at 5a moves for the chance of a slip to be negligable. Personally I would rather push the grade on something where the chance of failure is a bit higher but the chance of a serious injury is a lot lower.
> [...]
>
> It's an amazing route, and there is gear at the crux, but protecting the upper wall is difficult. I certainly wouldn't call this a 'safe' route, but it isn't dangerous either.
>
> It's an amazing route, and there is gear at the crux, but protecting the upper wall is difficult. I certainly wouldn't call this a 'safe' route, but it isn't dangerous either.
Once through the crux (i.e. you have got the pocket on the RH slab and good finger holds in the crack, which is the crux not getting round the overlap) there are good placements above and good holds to place them from. The crux grove is a bit thin but has adequate pro with micros, the upper wall is both easy and solidly protected.
In reply to davidwright:
I think this may just be another reason why I didn't recommend any routes to the OP - these things are so subjective. For me the crux is most definitely the step up over the overlap. And again, somehow, I've not managed to get any decent gear in the upper wall on the two occasions I've climbed the route, and not seen my mates place any decent gear there either. What with this and Knight's move in the same week, I think that we must just approach routes in different ways!
> (In reply to Monk)
>
> The crux grove is a bit thin but has adequate pro with micros, the upper wall is both easy and solidly protected.
> The crux grove is a bit thin but has adequate pro with micros, the upper wall is both easy and solidly protected.
I think this may just be another reason why I didn't recommend any routes to the OP - these things are so subjective. For me the crux is most definitely the step up over the overlap. And again, somehow, I've not managed to get any decent gear in the upper wall on the two occasions I've climbed the route, and not seen my mates place any decent gear there either. What with this and Knight's move in the same week, I think that we must just approach routes in different ways!
In reply to tomhare:
My pick, the Plum, was chosen because it's straightforward, it's hard to hurt yourself and the gear is obvious. As for the start, take your pick - as a first E1 I'd take the easy option. It was HVS in the early 80's and IMHO it's no harder now, plus the gear would have to have neon signs to make it any easier easier to find.
As far as E1 5a being a good option, who are you kidding? Being established at E2/3, I avoid anything that's E1 5a because it's an atypical grade and will generally end in tears if anything goes wrong. I similarly avoid HVS 4c, E3 5b and E4 5c.
The Arrow has also had more than its fair share of accidents - if you're going to step up a grade, you need to look for more than just a 'soft touch' which only really applies if you're established at that grade and can cope. Better to go for something at the lower end of the spectrum, rather than the very bottom.
My pick, the Plum, was chosen because it's straightforward, it's hard to hurt yourself and the gear is obvious. As for the start, take your pick - as a first E1 I'd take the easy option. It was HVS in the early 80's and IMHO it's no harder now, plus the gear would have to have neon signs to make it any easier easier to find.
As far as E1 5a being a good option, who are you kidding? Being established at E2/3, I avoid anything that's E1 5a because it's an atypical grade and will generally end in tears if anything goes wrong. I similarly avoid HVS 4c, E3 5b and E4 5c.
The Arrow has also had more than its fair share of accidents - if you're going to step up a grade, you need to look for more than just a 'soft touch' which only really applies if you're established at that grade and can cope. Better to go for something at the lower end of the spectrum, rather than the very bottom.
In reply to tomhare: I will make some suggestions.
Namenlos at Stanage Plantation is decidedly soft touch as long as you have a small friend
If you can climb Billiard Buttress, Millisom's Minion should be a doddle.
Left Unconquerable is quite steep at the bottom but only has one short lived technical crux and certainly doesn't contain the nightmare that is the top out of its sister route.
Three Pebble Slab is worth the money for E1 and you will then qualify to join the debate of whether it should be E0.
If you want something a bit more on the money, the Embankment routes at Milestone are all bob on for the grade.
Despite once being graded E2, Great Peter at Lawrencefield is perhaps even a bit soft for the grade at E1.
However, if you want some quality E1 head to Staden Quarry. Ok, so it is limestone, but it is limestone unlike any other, namely, it is slabby.
Bicycle Repair Man, Sunai and Liquid Courage are all excellent and Joint Effort at HVS is probably one of the best climbs in the Peak. Steer clear of Charas though. I found it very very difficult.
Have fun
Namenlos at Stanage Plantation is decidedly soft touch as long as you have a small friend
If you can climb Billiard Buttress, Millisom's Minion should be a doddle.
Left Unconquerable is quite steep at the bottom but only has one short lived technical crux and certainly doesn't contain the nightmare that is the top out of its sister route.
Three Pebble Slab is worth the money for E1 and you will then qualify to join the debate of whether it should be E0.
If you want something a bit more on the money, the Embankment routes at Milestone are all bob on for the grade.
Despite once being graded E2, Great Peter at Lawrencefield is perhaps even a bit soft for the grade at E1.
However, if you want some quality E1 head to Staden Quarry. Ok, so it is limestone, but it is limestone unlike any other, namely, it is slabby.
Bicycle Repair Man, Sunai and Liquid Courage are all excellent and Joint Effort at HVS is probably one of the best climbs in the Peak. Steer clear of Charas though. I found it very very difficult.
Have fun
In reply to EeeByGum:
I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
In reply to tomhare: My 1st was Long Tall sally at Burbage North. Really good gear at your waist for the crux.....I tested it too
In reply to davidwright:
"The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. "
"hmm its E15b in the database so if it was ever HVS that must have been sometime ago. It is also atracting a lot of hard for the grade votes for an "easy" E1."
Is it not e1 5c if you use the corner crack and HVS if you avoid that and start from the right? I notice someone claims its only e1 if done in one pitch.
"The Plum at Tremadog useed to be HVS. "
"hmm its E15b in the database so if it was ever HVS that must have been sometime ago. It is also atracting a lot of hard for the grade votes for an "easy" E1."
Is it not e1 5c if you use the corner crack and HVS if you avoid that and start from the right? I notice someone claims its only e1 if done in one pitch.
In reply to Keith Jones:
I counted four separate 5b moves on the Plum, two on each pitch. Certainly E1 run together, and the first pitch alone felt E1 to me at the time - and that was using the right-hand start.
I counted four separate 5b moves on the Plum, two on each pitch. Certainly E1 run together, and the first pitch alone felt E1 to me at the time - and that was using the right-hand start.
In reply to davidwright:
>>> and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly
Excellent!
IIRC my first E1 was something on Shorn Cliff (Tigers Don't Cry?) - but my first on grit was that old stalwart Long Tall Sally.
>>> and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly
Excellent!
IIRC my first E1 was something on Shorn Cliff (Tigers Don't Cry?) - but my first on grit was that old stalwart Long Tall Sally.
In reply to tomhare:
As another said, play to your strengths. If you like slabs, choose a slabby one, if you like cracks, ditto.
I like slabs. My first E1 was "Motorcade" at Froggart. Though there are easier E1 slabs..
As another said, play to your strengths. If you like slabs, choose a slabby one, if you like cracks, ditto.
I like slabs. My first E1 was "Motorcade" at Froggart. Though there are easier E1 slabs..
In reply to tomhare: My first was just the other day called Cameo at wilton 1! The gear is a little hard won and I did end up with a bit of run out through the crux section as I was a bit pumped due to it being the last climb of the day. It was a great route for me though, nice and sustained, 5a on the technical grade. Some said that was a bold one for my first E1 but I really enjoyed it.
In reply to Nic: Tigers Don't Cry is HVS, nice and solid too! To be fair if your sensible at the start [don't panic and place enough gear] The Arrow is grand at E1, brilliant route! Continuing the non-Grit theme, I reckon Rock Idol at Mother Careys is the daddy of first E1 leads, easy climbing, perfect gear and I honestly can't think of more spectular terrain at the grade!
In reply to tomhare:
Long tall Sally if grit?
Or something in the mountains/coast for something more memorable?
Long tall Sally if grit?
Or something in the mountains/coast for something more memorable?
In reply to tomhare: my first on grit was three pebble slab, (but at the time in the guidebook it was HVS)
so my first real E1 was easter rib, at stanage, which was really nice, just the right amount of gear and rests, and very nice moves.
I would say look for a route with good rests, nothing too pumpy, so that your technique can shine through, and if you need to relax, rest, or get your head together for a moment, theres plenty of chances.
so my first real E1 was easter rib, at stanage, which was really nice, just the right amount of gear and rests, and very nice moves.
I would say look for a route with good rests, nothing too pumpy, so that your technique can shine through, and if you need to relax, rest, or get your head together for a moment, theres plenty of chances.
In reply to tomhare:
Safety Net at the Roaches is good. Varied 'ard sections but reasonable protection and rests.
Safety Net at the Roaches is good. Varied 'ard sections but reasonable protection and rests.
In reply to tomhare:
I can't think of my first E1 on grit - probably a non descript soft touch somewhere. I'd still go for Safety Net if I had my time again.
Sinecure in Pembroke was my first actual E1 followed by Indy 500.
I can't think of my first E1 on grit - probably a non descript soft touch somewhere. I'd still go for Safety Net if I had my time again.
Sinecure in Pembroke was my first actual E1 followed by Indy 500.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I would shy away from LTS as a first E1, even though for many it is, I found the protection "thin" where it was crucial and the start very hard.
I would shy away from LTS as a first E1, even though for many it is, I found the protection "thin" where it was crucial and the start very hard.
In reply to GrahamD:
After this weekend i would say Cemetery Gates on the Cromlich if you have the stamina it is steep but very juggy with excellent gear.
After this weekend i would say Cemetery Gates on the Cromlich if you have the stamina it is steep but very juggy with excellent gear.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
In fact there are loads of really good grit options (and CG is certainly one of them). The problem with grit is that being generally short routes can either seem overly technical or underly protected for any given grade.
In fact there are loads of really good grit options (and CG is certainly one of them). The problem with grit is that being generally short routes can either seem overly technical or underly protected for any given grade.
In reply to tomhare: If it must be grit then Long Tall Sally is fine with decent gear and a rest under the top groove but you do have to work for the kit a little. If you like bouldering then try Sithee at Stanage plantation. Play to your strengths, I like slabs so I did a slab, though it's in at E2 in the new Froggatt guide, woohoo
In reply to GrahamD:
Er Cemetery Gates is in Wales
Er Cemetery Gates is in Wales
In reply to davidwright:
The start on the Arrow's got cams and a thread before your feet are 4 m off the deck. I haven't got a deathwish, I just climb lines I like the look of and I advised the OP against going for technically easy but bold same as you did.
> (In reply to nniff)
> first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish). Of those mentioned the Arrow is well protected in its upper sections but the start is almost as hard as anything else on the route and is poorly protected over a cr@p landing and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly.
> first of all climbing E1 shouldn't be about playing russian roulette so choose a route with adequate gear (i.e ignore teflonpete's death wish). Of those mentioned the Arrow is well protected in its upper sections but the start is almost as hard as anything else on the route and is poorly protected over a cr@p landing and gives out free helicopter flights quite regularly.
The start on the Arrow's got cams and a thread before your feet are 4 m off the deck. I haven't got a deathwish, I just climb lines I like the look of and I advised the OP against going for technically easy but bold same as you did.
In reply to 1234None:
Agreed, the perfect first grit E1.
Don't do anything mega soft or obscure - you'll regret it long term.
Don't do anything serious - you might REALLY regret it.
Best to get on a safe classic to properly mark the occasion. LU is not desperate at any point, its benchmark middle of the road classic & safe E1.
> (In reply to tomhare)
>
> Left Unconquerable - fairly solid at the grade but safe as houses.
>
> Left Unconquerable - fairly solid at the grade but safe as houses.
Agreed, the perfect first grit E1.
Don't do anything mega soft or obscure - you'll regret it long term.
Don't do anything serious - you might REALLY regret it.
Best to get on a safe classic to properly mark the occasion. LU is not desperate at any point, its benchmark middle of the road classic & safe E1.
In reply to GrahamD:
?
> (In reply to Duncan Bourne)
>
> In fact there are loads of really good grit options (and CG is certainly one of them).
>
> In fact there are loads of really good grit options (and CG is certainly one of them).
?
In reply to Offwidth:
Defo still E1 IMO.
> (In reply to EeeByGum)
>
> I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
>
> I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
Defo still E1 IMO.
In reply to tomhare:
If the weather holds, Gimmer String. 3 star route, 3 pitches - only one of them 5b - and a fabulous position on a mountain crag. What's not to like? Well, maybe the walk up but apart from that.......
If the weather holds, Gimmer String. 3 star route, 3 pitches - only one of them 5b - and a fabulous position on a mountain crag. What's not to like? Well, maybe the walk up but apart from that.......
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I`ll second that, one of the best E1s as well, feels soft for E1 but, it`s 40mtrs long and will test your stamina, do the `Grim Jim` finish even better !
I`ll second that, one of the best E1s as well, feels soft for E1 but, it`s 40mtrs long and will test your stamina, do the `Grim Jim` finish even better !
In reply to Offwidth:
I dont like the second half of this statement. Whether or not someone thinks the Crease HVS or E1, and 4c or 5a, will depend on their strengths, their head and the conditions. But the pro is poor whether it's modern or not. Your statement implies it is safe with modern gear; it is definitely not. (I did it last year with a full range of cams and micro wires, I spent a long time looking for stuff, I'm pretty experienced at looking for crap gear on grit, and the only thing which may have held a fall was a micro wire (swedge 3 or 4) just below half height. It may just have protected the crux if your belayer ran away a bit.)
Did this ages ago and cant really remember it but I wasnt really an E1 climber at the time. Tough HVS is fair Id have thought.
> (In reply to Hardonicus)
>
> I suspect the Crease originally followed a harder and more independant line just left (then later claimed by an HVS?) and for its time would have been serious. Agreed the modern line is HVS with modern pro.
>
> I suspect the Crease originally followed a harder and more independant line just left (then later claimed by an HVS?) and for its time would have been serious. Agreed the modern line is HVS with modern pro.
I dont like the second half of this statement. Whether or not someone thinks the Crease HVS or E1, and 4c or 5a, will depend on their strengths, their head and the conditions. But the pro is poor whether it's modern or not. Your statement implies it is safe with modern gear; it is definitely not. (I did it last year with a full range of cams and micro wires, I spent a long time looking for stuff, I'm pretty experienced at looking for crap gear on grit, and the only thing which may have held a fall was a micro wire (swedge 3 or 4) just below half height. It may just have protected the crux if your belayer ran away a bit.)
>
> For the OP I could suggest a tough HVS that probably should be E1. Ivory Tower, on Upper Tor might be a contender? We even put a list in the new Frogatt guide.
> For the OP I could suggest a tough HVS that probably should be E1. Ivory Tower, on Upper Tor might be a contender? We even put a list in the new Frogatt guide.
Did this ages ago and cant really remember it but I wasnt really an E1 climber at the time. Tough HVS is fair Id have thought.
In reply to Si dH:
PS to tohers, my opinion on The Plum is that it is E1 however you do it. I did it all in one pitch including the corner and it felt like a tough E1. Obviously if you miss the bottom corner out (although this looked like a ridiculous thing to do to me really), or do it in two picthes, it is going ot be a bit easier, but I still feel it would definitely warrant E1. HVS must have been a good old sandbag.
PS to tohers, my opinion on The Plum is that it is E1 however you do it. I did it all in one pitch including the corner and it felt like a tough E1. Obviously if you miss the bottom corner out (although this looked like a ridiculous thing to do to me really), or do it in two picthes, it is going ot be a bit easier, but I still feel it would definitely warrant E1. HVS must have been a good old sandbag.
In reply to tomhare:
Eagle River had it right - play to your strengths.
There are loads of soft E1s at Stanage that are quite easy climbing and range from slightly bold to very bold; if thats your thing then thats the easiest way to get an E1 tick. Id recommend being solid on both HVS 5a and HVS 4c type routes first though.
Eagle River had it right - play to your strengths.
There are loads of soft E1s at Stanage that are quite easy climbing and range from slightly bold to very bold; if thats your thing then thats the easiest way to get an E1 tick. Id recommend being solid on both HVS 5a and HVS 4c type routes first though.
In reply to tomhare:
My first was Sirplum - truly memorable but maybe not a safe choice for a first E1!
My first was Sirplum - truly memorable but maybe not a safe choice for a first E1!
In reply to tomhare:
I tried long tall sally E1 5b at Burbage north yesterday for my first E1 was so close to doing it clean but did it with one fall when my foot slipped of a hold.
Fell on a micro wire thankfully it held.
I tried long tall sally E1 5b at Burbage north yesterday for my first E1 was so close to doing it clean but did it with one fall when my foot slipped of a hold.
Fell on a micro wire thankfully it held.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Good effort!!!!!!!!!
> (In reply to tomhare)
>
> My first was Sirplum - truly memorable but maybe not a safe choice for a first E1!
>
> My first was Sirplum - truly memorable but maybe not a safe choice for a first E1!
Good effort!!!!!!!!!
In reply to tomhare: My first E1 lead on grit was Fern Hill followed by Long Tall Sally both protectable.I had already led and seconded extremes on other types of rock which can be easier than grit ones.In fact my first
extreme lead was Mousetrap which was also my first route at Gogarth, two
years before Fern Hill. Left Unconquerable is a good choice, steep but with good gear.
extreme lead was Mousetrap which was also my first route at Gogarth, two
years before Fern Hill. Left Unconquerable is a good choice, steep but with good gear.
In reply to Si dH:
The old Paul williams guide says E1 in one pitch or HVS as two, but i don't quite understand this logic. Where you would belay half way is a ledge you could have a sit down rest on for half an hour if you were leading it in one pitch - so what's the difference?
> (In reply to Si dH)
> PS to tohers, my opinion on The Plum .....do it in two picthes, it is going ot be a bit easier...
> PS to tohers, my opinion on The Plum .....do it in two picthes, it is going ot be a bit easier...
The old Paul williams guide says E1 in one pitch or HVS as two, but i don't quite understand this logic. Where you would belay half way is a ledge you could have a sit down rest on for half an hour if you were leading it in one pitch - so what's the difference?
In reply to tomhare:
So you want a well-protected E1 that isn't too hard?
I'd forget about that to a certain degree. First and foremost, pick a line that you find truly inspiring and you think 'man, that looks GOOD'. Second, make sure you consider it to be a 'proper' E1, rather than a soft-touch.
Any other approach will leave you walking away not feeling completely fulfilled. Take this approach and you will walk away absolutely buzzing, fulfilled and excited about all the other upcoming great lines you now have open to you.
> At the stage of beginning to consider climbing e1's. What are a selection of the best first extreme leads on grit?
So you want a well-protected E1 that isn't too hard?
I'd forget about that to a certain degree. First and foremost, pick a line that you find truly inspiring and you think 'man, that looks GOOD'. Second, make sure you consider it to be a 'proper' E1, rather than a soft-touch.
Any other approach will leave you walking away not feeling completely fulfilled. Take this approach and you will walk away absolutely buzzing, fulfilled and excited about all the other upcoming great lines you now have open to you.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
The corner is absolutely nails and no way 5b. Even if you can climb it, it's not really worthwhile. I would strongly recommend traversing in from above it, to start.
> (In reply to davidwright)
>
> There's two ways to start The Plum, either via a short corner or up easy ground to the right and traverse across. Let's just say that the corner is a bit of a shock at "easy E1"!
>
> ALC
>
> There's two ways to start The Plum, either via a short corner or up easy ground to the right and traverse across. Let's just say that the corner is a bit of a shock at "easy E1"!
>
> ALC
The corner is absolutely nails and no way 5b. Even if you can climb it, it's not really worthwhile. I would strongly recommend traversing in from above it, to start.
In reply to tomhare:
On grit, maybe Long Tall Sally (as said, though it's more technical maybe than you'd think) plus gear actually not that fab.
Seem to recall doing Strapiombante (?) at Froggatt quite early too. Good pro if very pumpy for a short'ish route. But a great route and just one of those "must do" climbs.
On grit, maybe Long Tall Sally (as said, though it's more technical maybe than you'd think) plus gear actually not that fab.
Seem to recall doing Strapiombante (?) at Froggatt quite early too. Good pro if very pumpy for a short'ish route. But a great route and just one of those "must do" climbs.
In reply to teflonpete:
... and despite that a big reputation for nasty accidents, presumably because if your hands ping off you don't hit the 'deck', you go over the edge backwards.
I don't really get it either, it felt pretty safe to me but it does have a reputation and sadly it's probably well deserved.
OP: My first Grit E1 was Woodhouse Eliminate. Nice enough but not worth a recommendation. None of what I've done this year (all I have logged and can remember reliably) is especially brilliant as a 'first' at E1 so I'll leave the recommendations to others.
jk
> The start on the Arrow's got cams and a thread before your feet are 4 m off the deck
... and despite that a big reputation for nasty accidents, presumably because if your hands ping off you don't hit the 'deck', you go over the edge backwards.
I don't really get it either, it felt pretty safe to me but it does have a reputation and sadly it's probably well deserved.
OP: My first Grit E1 was Woodhouse Eliminate. Nice enough but not worth a recommendation. None of what I've done this year (all I have logged and can remember reliably) is especially brilliant as a 'first' at E1 so I'll leave the recommendations to others.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
> (In reply to teflonpete)
>
> [...]
>
> ... and despite that a big reputation for nasty accidents, presumably because if your hands ping off you don't hit the 'deck', you go over the edge backwards.
>
The 'deck' being a boulderfield which makes for a pretty serious landing. Not a bad first E1 though, so long as you are aware of the risk at the start. >
> [...]
>
> ... and despite that a big reputation for nasty accidents, presumably because if your hands ping off you don't hit the 'deck', you go over the edge backwards.
>
In reply to jonny2vests:
I had this brainwave once on it - getting pumped I headed off route for the notch on arete of the Spider (then an A3 now E6?) thinking 'I can rest on that' slumped over it feet and hands free, rested, pulled back onto the original route and finished - did I cheat or was it E2+!?
> (In reply to Bulls Crack)
> [...]
>
>
> Good effort!!!!!!!!!
> [...]
>
>
> Good effort!!!!!!!!!
I had this brainwave once on it - getting pumped I headed off route for the notch on arete of the Spider (then an A3 now E6?) thinking 'I can rest on that' slumped over it feet and hands free, rested, pulled back onto the original route and finished - did I cheat or was it E2+!?
In reply to Offwidth:
Yep, the block is off, meaning a run-out to the crux, and a bounce off the ledge, and maybe a deck.
Not good.
Why does TPS keep getting mentioned, when next door is Three Sided Triangle, bomber gear, and much easier, despite E1 5b.....
Chequers Buttress used to be E1 5b....hahaha. Its soft touch HVS, IMO.
Left Unconquerable is a good choice.
> (In reply to EeeByGum)
>
> I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
>
> I think a small block came off Great Peter fairly recently making it harder... still supposedly E1 though.
Yep, the block is off, meaning a run-out to the crux, and a bounce off the ledge, and maybe a deck.
Not good.
Why does TPS keep getting mentioned, when next door is Three Sided Triangle, bomber gear, and much easier, despite E1 5b.....
Chequers Buttress used to be E1 5b....hahaha. Its soft touch HVS, IMO.
Left Unconquerable is a good choice.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
Aha, you were N Wales the weekend then? When did you climb CG? I poddled up Flying Buttress with my Dad on Friday afternoon.
Aha, you were N Wales the weekend then? When did you climb CG? I poddled up Flying Buttress with my Dad on Friday afternoon.
In reply to RuthK:
Ay, that's what I was getting at, I guess maybe I wasn't especially clear.
jk
> The 'deck' being a boulderfield which makes for a pretty serious landing. Not a bad first E1 though, so long as you are aware of the risk at the start.
Ay, that's what I was getting at, I guess maybe I wasn't especially clear.
jk
In reply to Bulls Crack:
F8a I believe. It's one of my ambitions if I ever properly get into sport.
Gosh, its been a while, can't remember much about it. The girlfriend wants to do it though, so hopefully soon.
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> I had this brainwave once on it - getting pumped I headed off route for the notch on arete of the Spider (then an A3 now E6?)
> [...]
>
> I had this brainwave once on it - getting pumped I headed off route for the notch on arete of the Spider (then an A3 now E6?)
F8a I believe. It's one of my ambitions if I ever properly get into sport.
> thinking 'I can rest on that' slumped over it feet and hands free, rested, pulled back onto the original route and finished - did I cheat or was it E2+!?
Gosh, its been a while, can't remember much about it. The girlfriend wants to do it though, so hopefully soon.
In reply to grubes:
given that your CoG is still bellow the peice as you compleate the crux moves that wire has every chance of holding unlike small gear that you are 1-2m above when you finish a move (eg the moves up to the break on kinghts move).
> (In reply to tomhare)
> I tried long tall sally E1 5b at Burbage north yesterday for my first E1 was so close to doing it clean but did it with one fall when my foot slipped of a hold.
>
> Fell on a micro wire thankfully it held.
> I tried long tall sally E1 5b at Burbage north yesterday for my first E1 was so close to doing it clean but did it with one fall when my foot slipped of a hold.
>
> Fell on a micro wire thankfully it held.
given that your CoG is still bellow the peice as you compleate the crux moves that wire has every chance of holding unlike small gear that you are 1-2m above when you finish a move (eg the moves up to the break on kinghts move).
In reply to teflonpete:
There are routes where a fall from 2-3m up and you will be back on the route 5 mins later while there are routes where a fall from 2-3m will mean you either go home in a 'choper or a box. The arrow is one of the latter. Not only that but the bottom 4m are the technical crux and the cams have to be placed blind in the middle of a 5b sequence.
every route you named is either a chop route or has a rep for bad accidents.
> (In reply to davidwright)
> [...]
>
>
> The start on the Arrow's got cams and a thread before your feet are 4 m off the deck. I haven't got a deathwish, I just climb lines I like the look of and I advised the OP against going for technically easy but bold same as you did.
> [...]
>
>
> The start on the Arrow's got cams and a thread before your feet are 4 m off the deck. I haven't got a deathwish, I just climb lines I like the look of and I advised the OP against going for technically easy but bold same as you did.
There are routes where a fall from 2-3m up and you will be back on the route 5 mins later while there are routes where a fall from 2-3m will mean you either go home in a 'choper or a box. The arrow is one of the latter. Not only that but the bottom 4m are the technical crux and the cams have to be placed blind in the middle of a 5b sequence.
every route you named is either a chop route or has a rep for bad accidents.
In reply to James Jackson:
On the Monday Coel did Cenotaph Corner and then i did Cemetery Gates. A cracking day out.
On the Monday Coel did Cenotaph Corner and then i did Cemetery Gates. A cracking day out.
In reply to tomhare:
Maybe the key is to play to your strengths. Do you like delicate slabby routes or steep, pumpy routes? I'm in a similar position to you, planning a first E1.
I really like crack climbing. I'm planning to climb Embankment4 at Millstone.
Good luck with whatever you go for mate!
Maybe the key is to play to your strengths. Do you like delicate slabby routes or steep, pumpy routes? I'm in a similar position to you, planning a first E1.
I really like crack climbing. I'm planning to climb Embankment4 at Millstone.
Good luck with whatever you go for mate!
In reply to garethhanson:
If you are planning that, then do Embankment 2 for a warm up.
Granny sucking eggs and all that, but I assume that you have climbed quarried grit quite a bit, coz millstone can seem steep and long when your blowing a bit.
It's a good choice, if you have it in you, and embankment 2 will give you a good feel.
> (In reply to tomhare)
> Maybe the key is to play to your strengths. Do you like delicate slabby routes or steep, pumpy routes? I'm in a similar position to you, planning a first E1.
>
> I really like crack climbing. I'm planning to climb Embankment4 at Millstone.
>
> Good luck with whatever you go for mate!
> Maybe the key is to play to your strengths. Do you like delicate slabby routes or steep, pumpy routes? I'm in a similar position to you, planning a first E1.
>
> I really like crack climbing. I'm planning to climb Embankment4 at Millstone.
>
> Good luck with whatever you go for mate!
If you are planning that, then do Embankment 2 for a warm up.
Granny sucking eggs and all that, but I assume that you have climbed quarried grit quite a bit, coz millstone can seem steep and long when your blowing a bit.
It's a good choice, if you have it in you, and embankment 2 will give you a good feel.
In reply to tomhare:
Surely the best first extreme lead would be something hard.
I know I would have been happier if my first extreme lead had been graded E11 as opposed to E1.
Surely the best first extreme lead would be something hard.
I know I would have been happier if my first extreme lead had been graded E11 as opposed to E1.
In reply to tomhare:
Another vote for Cemetery Gates. Low in grade; fine if you're feeling fit and strong; total classic.
Another vote for Cemetery Gates. Low in grade; fine if you're feeling fit and strong; total classic.
In reply to tomhare:
Keeping to your original question...A best first E1 on Grit, and I read into that you are looking for a soft touch as you say are a beginner at this level?
Have to admit I have not much experience of Grit... but for what it is worth...
I had a midge infested evening at Stanage a while back, so I soloed around on Heather Buttress (little buggers can't keep up with me when soloing), anyway, have a look at War Zone (E1 6a) Its close to the ground. Not a great route, but easy for the grade in my opinion.
Keeping to your original question...A best first E1 on Grit, and I read into that you are looking for a soft touch as you say are a beginner at this level?
Have to admit I have not much experience of Grit... but for what it is worth...
I had a midge infested evening at Stanage a while back, so I soloed around on Heather Buttress (little buggers can't keep up with me when soloing), anyway, have a look at War Zone (E1 6a) Its close to the ground. Not a great route, but easy for the grade in my opinion.
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