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Strapiombante - Beta please

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 rh5980 15 Jul 2010
Im in the peak for a few days next week and fancy having a go at this route. The guide book says small friends in the break and i was wondering what size these are as i don't have very many?

thanks in advance

Rob
 mark20 15 Jul 2010
I got in a bomber green DMM 3CU (size 1.75) and a good purple 3CU (1.25). Good size 3s and 3.5s in the cracks below too.
In reply to rh5980: IIRC they are 1.5 tech friend, certainly no bigger than 2. its a good route - took me a few attempts to do it clean. make sure that the top out is dry as a pocket of water builds up in the hold which isn't good while being pumped trying to mantle!
 Reach>Talent 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980:
If you feel the need you can get 2 of just about every size of cam from 3 downwards in. I got a size 1.5 and a size 1 in the final crack and they were both bomb-proof, as I tested them by falling the full length of the route.
In reply to Reach>Talent: would you agree that its a bit of a sandbag route - looks easier than it is?
 Reach>Talent 15 Jul 2010
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I now make a habit of avoiding routes with the description "suprisingly pumpy for its length". In all fairness I'd have probably been ok if I didn't use some bad beta, I was told by someone over a foot shorter than me how to do the final move and I went far too far left
 lowersharpnose 15 Jul 2010
In reply to higherclimbingwales:

It's not a sandbag.

Read the description:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10879

8m A fine micro-route, strenuous, with good gear to catch you if you blow the final moves. Trend right up the wall to a break (small Friends) then back left to crux moves out left, or go direct.

In reply to Reach>Talent: yeah, I found the top dripping with rainwater and retreated.
 Offwidth 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980:

Beta for Strapiombante for a climber with an HVS best onsight:

Version 1:
1) Get connned into thinking its a good first E1,
2) climb first half, place gear, back off, learn from experince.

Version 2

1) As before,
2) place gear and go for it, falling off trying to establishing self on ledge, back off, learn from experience.

Version 3
1) As before,
2) as before but fall more than once.

Version 4

Success after one or more attempts; thinks to self... must recommend this as a first E1 to a similar underacheiver who needs a push.
 Reach>Talent 15 Jul 2010
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I went for the lip and then dutifully follwing my poor beta continued to go left to find the good bit. My brain told me something was wrong after I got to full stretch brought my right hand across and thought "there is no way Keith can reach this", tried to mantle the now rather poor hold and fell off. As I was so far left of my last bit of gear I didn't miss the ground by very much!
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to rh5980)
>
> Beta for Strapiombante for a climber with an HVS best onsight:
>
> Version 1:
> 1) Get connned into thinking its a good first E1,
> 2) climb first half, place gear, back off, learn from experince.
>
> Version 2
>
> 1) As before,
> 2) place gear and go for it, falling off trying to establishing self on ledge, back off, learn from experience.
>
> Version 3
> 1) As before,
> 2) as before but fall more than once.
>
> Version 4
>
> Success after one or more attempts; thinks to self... must recommend this as a first E1 to a similar underacheiver who needs a push.

Nail on head!
 Monk 15 Jul 2010
In reply to higherclimbingwales:

> (In reply to Offwidth)
> [...]
>
> Nail on head!

I'm not so sure - I think it depends on your strengths, I would agree that it's no pushover. This was my first E1, and I'd only led up to VS prior to that. I was a reasonably competent boulderer though, and I did get pumped stupid on it. I just saw the line and wanted to climb it. It's certainly safe if you can place cams properly, and the moves are good with a memorable top-out. Certainly not a route to forget.

To the OP - I think I placed a 1 and a 1.5 in the top diagonal crack.
 Offwidth 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Monk:

So how come you don't fit my version 4 ?
 DJonsight 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980: I've always soloed this route, it's not remotely pumpy that way. I think you could probaly protect it with a pad and a spotter, which would be my advice for all such micro routes (with a suitable disclaimer, of course) because if not you spend longer hanging in getting gear than actually climbing.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 15 Jul 2010
In reply to DJonsight:
> I've always soloed this route, it's not remotely pumpy that way. I think you could probaly protect it with a pad and a spotter, which would be my advice for all such micro routes (with a suitable disclaimer, of course) because if not you spend longer hanging in getting gear than actually climbing.

Great advice for someone looking to 'break' into E1!


Chris
 Reach>Talent 15 Jul 2010
In reply to DJonsight:
I can see your point but the crux is the top out mantle (in my opinion) and falling 8m off that would hurt a lot!
 Dave Garnett 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Chris Craggs:

I think it's the hardest E1 I've ever fallen off.

Actually, I think it's the only E1 I've ever fallen off.

The key is how much of a span left it is for you.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Dave Garnett:

I discovered last year (nearly 40 years on) that it may in fact be easier to pull straight up at the end of the crack for a jug rather than make the long swing left to the sloper - doh!


Chris
In reply to Dave Garnett: I've got a long reach and I still fell off. Well, slumped pumped stupid onto the gear anyway.
 riddle 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980: Well that saves putting the effort into actually climbing the route. I feel like I can now tick the route, do I go for the clean on site or red point...
 Monk 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Monk)
>
> So how come you don't fit my version 4 ?

Very good point, and you pretty much have me.

However, I don't generally recommend it as a first E1, only as a good route which is E1.
 Chi Cheng 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980:

I think I got red BD Camalot low down in the first horizontal crack.
I'm sure I got 2 purple BD Camalots in the horizontal brake.

After placing the cams down climb to the arĂȘte and rest and de-pump.

Climb back the the cams and using the diagonal brake for one had, hit the slopper and match. I now used a pebble out left for my foot. (my friend just mantled).
While doing the crux move make sure you belay partner is paying attention and is not too far back.
 Monk 15 Jul 2010
In reply to DJonsight:

Interesting adivce - probably suitable for someone who onsights E5 (or even only E3) but I certainly wouldn't recommend that for someone trying the route at or near their top level. Judging from where most people fall, it's quite likely to end in tears.
 Offwidth 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Monk:

Yep. We put a list of similar climbs in 'Smile' in the new Froggatt guide. Anyone looking for a guarenteed easy ride should steer clear. As for the hard for the grade climbs, they should convince the most sceptical climber they are ready to progress, so expect a fight
 Monk 15 Jul 2010
In reply to Offwidth:

I've just received the guide in the post - I will check those out tonight, sounds interesting! Very good work, BTW.
 EeeByGum 15 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980: I tried this and fell, but it isn't hard when you know how. Crank up the crack as far as possible and when you get to the ledge, keep going left until you get some better holds. The mantel isn't too hard if you have any strength left.
In reply to Offwidth: I actually broke my toenail on that route when I fell off it for the 3rd time. forgot about that. it bloody hurt!
 DJonsight 15 Jul 2010
In reply to bullwinkle: That's a lot of beta for a 20ft high boulder problem (and totally blows the onsight). I stand by my advice for this one.
In reply to DJonsight: By your logic, I think I might go and try the onsight solo of the rasp seeing as im trying to break into the E2 grade!
 DJonsight 15 Jul 2010
In reply to higherclimbingwales: No! Honestly, that's not the same.
I just tend to think that with the advent of matts, a lot of these micro routes are best soloed - controversial, I know, but echoed on a recent thread about the relationship between boulder probs and routes.
Speaking from experience of both, I think Strapiombante is an OK E1, whereas The Rasp is a complete and utter sandbag for E2.
In reply to bullwinkle:

Loving the captions on those pictures, which seem to relate to a different route, or certainly different pictures.

Nice to see them advising tickmarks as well. Nothing like top climbers acting responsibly. 'You can always wipe them off afterwards.' Notice that 'can always'. Not 'bloody well better', or anything like that.

Not much could increase my contempt for planetfear, but they may have just managed to up it a notch.

jcm
 Offwidth 16 Jul 2010
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I guess it does say 'beta cheater' but with all that effort and ethical dubiousness you may as well have just headpointed it. Maybe it needs a new name: "grey point", a yoyo lead after full inspection and tickmarks. I also liked the fact it was two women that needed to cheat following the advice of the experienced male climber.
In reply to Offwidth:

Oh, I don't agree with that. I've got no problem with people looking down grit routes from the top, getting all the advice they can from others, etc., in fact the whole principle of the article. I can also assure you from having attempted routes at my own limit in both styles that this sort of thing does not put you in remotely the same position as headpointing a route.

I just feel Adrian Berry should conduct himself an awful lot better than recommending tickmarks and throwing in a snide aside about how you can always clean them off if you're one of those weird people who feel we shouldn't leave any more trace of our activities than we can help. I know he doesn't, of course, but still I feel he ought to.

jcm
 Offwidth 16 Jul 2010
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I guess I see the gap as being less than you. Having scoped holds cf gear on grit at my lead limit I can normally pretty much judge if I can do the moves or not in a way not far removed from what a headpoint would tell me. There is a continuum of scenarios where by climbing nearby routes, coming in on ledges to look at holds/ gear placements and tick-marking the best part of hidden holds you remove a huge part of the adjectival difficulty.

I have nothing against tactics that enable ascents if the climber is honest about what they did and they didn't damage the rock but if this is equated to an onsight (and claiming the grade), especially on protectable routes with a safish fall zone like Strapiombante, I think someone is kidding themselves.

On the damage issue, a lot of cam placements on peak grit are getting trashed by people throwing themselves at popular routes for breakthrough grade ticks. In such circumstances I'd much prefer people headpoint.
 JJL 16 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980:

This thread is now longer than the route. And the gear gets mentioned at about the right places as well...
 MNA123 16 Jul 2010
In reply to rh5980:

Just get to the end of the crack, which also takes a bomber number 8 nut. bring ure left foot quite high to the preety obvious hold rock left and mantle. Done.

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