UKC

Did giantslayer yesterday in blackers hole, the left arete has been bolted as a sport route all the way, however, they are on line for giantslayer, about 5 bolts in a row. In my opinion this greatly detracts from the trad experience. The route is fantastic and there is abundant gear where the bolts are, but its just a big shame!
Anyone know more about it? Whats the concensus on removing them?

Alex

In reply to Alex Mason:

Hi Alex,

Steve Taylor is the BMC access rep (see BMC site) for Swanage and may know the background to the placing of the bolts. Steve will also be able to let you know when the next Swanage area meeting is happening, if you're keen to get involved.

You may find it's down to individuals who feel strongly, to build a consensus locally, either for placing new bolts, or for removing bolts.

Simon

In reply to Alex Mason:

I'd agree from your description that it sounds like a real shame having bolts so close to an existing trad line.

Does anyone have any more information on what's been done and why?

In reply to Alex Mason:

By way of bumping this ...no idea but would be interested to know. As a non-local but regular visitor who enjoys both the sport and trad. at Swanage, my vote is to take them out.

Giantslayer: how was the climbing? Small, medium or large E5? Approx. sport grade?

(Excellent use of cock jockey in your logbook description by the way).

In reply to Alex Mason:

Sorry for the delay in responding, been on summer hols.

I know nothing about the bolts directly. However, I am aware of a hard new route being worked in the near vicinity. Putting two and two together, the bolter(s) may have unintentionally bolted some of Giantslayer.

I'll try to find out more.

Steve

In reply to steve taylor:

I believe that everything left of Giantslayer falls within the ‘bolt zone’ so the left arête should be ok. That said, I know there was some controversy when the lines of Marble Halls and Cold Empty Cross were bolted and as they interfered with sections on Giantslayer, they were de-bolted.

In reply to Chris Weedon:

The point seems to be though that these bolts aren't left of Giantslayer but on it or part of it.

Generous assumption ST is making that the bolter has retroed part of Giantslayer by accident, given that the most habitual breacher of the Dorset Bolt Agreement has been doing it habitually and deliberately for 20 years or so. Such a politician he is!

Is the Dorset Bolt Agreement on line anywhere? A casual search doesn't seem to turn it up, though it does turn up Gary Gibson retroing Severes on Portland and being asked to remove the bolts, Pete Oxley implementing his own proposals to extend bolting across part of Unknown Ledge and being asked to take them out (some things never change, eh? Wonder if either of them did.), and some young hotshot re-bolting one of the lines Oxley had already bolted in breach of the DBA and had been debolted accordingly (wonder what happened to the bolts this time?).

jcm

In reply to Alex Mason:

Bloody hell, rock down there must have more holes than a swiss cheese!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Who is the habitual and deliberate breacher that you refer to?

In reply to Chris Weedon:

I'll give you three guesses.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I've just read your profile:
''Acid-tongued traditionalist bigot.''
I'll leave you to your guessing games.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you may wish to exercise some caution before casting aspersions about people very influential in progression of climbing in the area.

In reply to Chris Weedon:

>but you may wish to exercise some caution before casting aspersions about people very influential in progression of climbing in the area.

I doubt it. Anyway, presumably if you know the person I had in mind was 'very influential in progression of climbing in the area', you also know who I had in mind.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

"Generous assumption ST is making that the bolter has retroed part of Giantslayer by accident".

Not a generous assumption, just informed common sense(The person you are referring to hasn't been in the country for over 4 years)

"and some young hotshot re-bolting one of the lines Oxley had already bolted in breach of the DBA and had been debolted accordingly"

Not true. No new bolts were added(in fact they were crudely mangled and left in place and the subsequent ascent missed out these bolts).

For the record, if Giantslayer has been retroed then I would support their removal, as part of the Dorset Bolt Agreement. Scatter-gun vitriol will get us nowhere.
Rob

In reply to Rob Kennard:

From additional research, the bolts seem to be what remain of the old 7b+ Marble Halls. I thought all of its bolts had been removed in line with the DBA, but I'll need to get in touch with the person who put in the effort de-bolting 10+ years ago, as perhaps he was unable to get them all out.

John - if my guesswork is correct, then these are a legacy of something Pete Oxley did in 1993. He was mildly pilloried for it at the time and, as Rob says, he's been out of the UK for some time now, so there is little point in dragging up the past.

I'll also back up what Rob said about the "young hotshot"(!) - he just climbed the route at Unknown Ledge using the remains of the damaged bolts, placed by Oxley some years earlier.

Steve

In reply to Rob Kennard:

>Not a generous assumption, just informed common sense(The person you are referring to hasn't been in the country for over 4 years)

Still a fairly generous assumption, I think, given the long history of deliberate violation of the DBA (and frankly I'd put claiming the FA of one of Oxley's rogue lines in that category too), and the fact that this particular route has been 'accidentally' partially retroed before according to an earlier poster, though I didn't know this.

>Not true. No new bolts were added(in fact they were crudely mangled and left in place and the subsequent ascent missed out these bolts).

My mistake. I should have known better than to imagine Oxley would take his bolts out simply because they'd been placed in violation of the agreement and he'd been asked to.


Oh, I don't know. It won't get us as far as removing the bolts, clearly, but it has a part to play, I think.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You are slowly becoming one of my heroes

In reply to Alex Mason:

Could this be Martin? He seem to be into retro bolting old trad routes in Cheddar and other peoples!

In reply to gaz parry:

The mystery deepens... All of the bolts placed by Pete Oxley were removed back in 1993/4, except for the belays. Sounds like more recent work.

Is the whole left arete of the wall bolted then (including the Giantslayer section)? How new do the bolts look? Are they staples or through bolts?

In reply to gaz parry:

I'd be quite surprised - most of the retrobolting at cheddar has been done in the pursuit of improved access, and has mainly involved routes which relied on a mixture of insitu gear anyway (worth noting that it's by no means always been a decision to retrobolt - some routes have been left as they were and some have had bolts removed and bolt free leads made). I think, given the number of similar routes (reliant on insitu gear) far nearer cheddar than the route in question (brean, Avon, etc) it would seem to me that the former condition (access) is the key driver, and as far as I'm aware there's no access issue on giantslayer...

In reply to gaz parry:

Nope - it won't be him, unless he's had a major change in viewpoint.

Like I said, it would be great to know if the bolts are part of a new, unreported route.