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Now i know on the website this is listed as banned.
I have been talking to a reliable source that says the BMC are no longer upholding the ban? Due to original time scale set at time of initial ban. They also mentioned recent negotiations?
Anyone know any more?
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcCrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=200
I have been talking to a reliable source that says the BMC are no longer upholding the ban? Due to original time scale set at time of initial ban. They also mentioned recent negotiations?
Anyone know any more?
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcCrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=200
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Who replaced Guy Keating when he moved on? if things are at a sensitive or stalled stage, a call to the BMC might clear up what's going on, without spreading it on the internet?
Who replaced Guy Keating when he moved on? if things are at a sensitive or stalled stage, a call to the BMC might clear up what's going on, without spreading it on the internet?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: you could try contacting Stephen Reid (or Ron Kenyon) - both post on UKC. They're both involved with the next FRCC guide which is going to include White Scar.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
All because no one replied means nothing. Get in touch with the BMC direct.
I believe the access arrangement is complex and also involves Chapel Head Scar.
Which is a better crag? White or Chapel? Where should BMC resources and energy go as regards these two crags?
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> That will be a no then.
>
> That will be a no then.
All because no one replied means nothing. Get in touch with the BMC direct.
I believe the access arrangement is complex and also involves Chapel Head Scar.
Which is a better crag? White or Chapel? Where should BMC resources and energy go as regards these two crags?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: From what was said at the BMC Lakes Area meeting last week, things are not looking good for gaining access.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Different crags really. If you want adventure on slightly loose rock and spaces bolts, with big exposure, go to White Scar.
By the way Mick, have you ever been? Would be good to get a second opinion. I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> Which is a better crag? White or Chapel? Where should BMC resources and energy go as regards these two crags?
> Which is a better crag? White or Chapel? Where should BMC resources and energy go as regards these two crags?
Different crags really. If you want adventure on slightly loose rock and spaces bolts, with big exposure, go to White Scar.
By the way Mick, have you ever been? Would be good to get a second opinion. I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Fantastic place, White Scar!
Phil
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> By the way Mick, have you ever been? Would be good to get a second opinion. I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
Fantastic place, White Scar!
Phil
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Would this be the chap?: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154631
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
Would this be the chap?: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154631
In reply to RockArchivist:
No, my source wouldn't be seen dead in lycra
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Would this be the chap?: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154631
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Would this be the chap?: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154631
No, my source wouldn't be seen dead in lycra
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Another one for you: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154686
Rather fetching lycra too.
Phil
Another one for you: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154686
Rather fetching lycra too.
Phil
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Yes I been ... did Introducing The Hardline with the Radtke
It's a pile really and as you know a bugger to get to the routes.
Chapel should be open all year round.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> Different crags really. If you want adventure on slightly loose rock and spaces bolts, with big exposure, go to White Scar.
>
> By the way Mick, have you ever been? Would be good to get a second opinion. I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
> [...]
>
> Different crags really. If you want adventure on slightly loose rock and spaces bolts, with big exposure, go to White Scar.
>
> By the way Mick, have you ever been? Would be good to get a second opinion. I reckon the person i spoke to might be slightly biased about the routes
Yes I been ... did Introducing The Hardline with the Radtke
It's a pile really and as you know a bugger to get to the routes.
Chapel should be open all year round.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Hmmm. Kind of as i suspected. Adventurous day out though?
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> It's a pile really
> It's a pile really
Hmmm. Kind of as i suspected. Adventurous day out though?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Adventurous is right! I assume none of the access ropes at the bottom remain? In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes. Abseil is an option, but logistically a nightmare.
Mick Love-it in Lycra. Shudder.
Adventurous is right! I assume none of the access ropes at the bottom remain? In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes. Abseil is an option, but logistically a nightmare.
Mick Love-it in Lycra. Shudder.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
A pile? Are you sure?
Phil
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> It's a pile really and as you know a bugger to get to the routes.
>
> It's a pile really and as you know a bugger to get to the routes.
A pile? Are you sure?
Phil
In reply to bentley's biceps:
Absolute tosh! You walk up the slab, hang a right and climb the hill to a tree on the top, scramble down (use a rope from the tree for safety) to a belay stake at the top of Space Buttress and then ab in from there in 2 abs, stopping at the cave/tree on the way.
It's adventurous for sure, but great fun!
Phil
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes. Abseil is an option, but logistically a nightmare.
>
> In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes. Abseil is an option, but logistically a nightmare.
Absolute tosh! You walk up the slab, hang a right and climb the hill to a tree on the top, scramble down (use a rope from the tree for safety) to a belay stake at the top of Space Buttress and then ab in from there in 2 abs, stopping at the cave/tree on the way.
It's adventurous for sure, but great fun!
Phil
In reply to RockArchivist:
I'll give you that abseil to Space is probablt the best option, but I was referring to the rest of the crag.
I'll give you that abseil to Space is probablt the best option, but I was referring to the rest of the crag.
In reply to bentley's biceps:
Space Buttress isn't that bad. Slightly earlier on the path you can (could) make an adventurous drop down to Malacia Tapestry. It's a struggle but not too bad.
The rest I can't comment on and managed to stay well clear of. It's a fine day out though.
Phil
> (In reply to RockArchivist)
>
> I'll give you that abseil to Space is probablt the best option, but I was referring to the rest of the crag.
>
> I'll give you that abseil to Space is probablt the best option, but I was referring to the rest of the crag.
Space Buttress isn't that bad. Slightly earlier on the path you can (could) make an adventurous drop down to Malacia Tapestry. It's a struggle but not too bad.
The rest I can't comment on and managed to stay well clear of. It's a fine day out though.
Phil
In reply to bentley's biceps:
Most of the routes are ON Space Buttress aren't they, or have things changed?
Phil
> (In reply to RockArchivist)
>
> In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes
>
> In which case it'd be a bastard to get to most of the routes
> I'll give you that abseil to Space is probablt the best option, but I was referring to the rest of the crag.
Most of the routes are ON Space Buttress aren't they, or have things changed?
Phil
In reply to RockArchivist:
There's half a dozen or so things on Tapestry and the other bit, but Space is the best.
IIRC there used to be peregrine restrictions but it was banned when development got a bit overenthusiatic. I may well be wrong though.
Mr K, nice new upload by the way.
There's half a dozen or so things on Tapestry and the other bit, but Space is the best.
IIRC there used to be peregrine restrictions but it was banned when development got a bit overenthusiatic. I may well be wrong though.
Mr K, nice new upload by the way.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Chapel Head has bird restrictions placed on the crag every year from March until June unless the BMC say otherwise.
Your post was a bit ambiguous in that you are either making a statement of fact, or a statement to say that bird restrictions should not be in place so hopefully this clarifies things for others reading.
Peregrines nested successfully for the first time at Chapel Head this year ever since the restrictions were placed on the crag. Read into that what you will...
As for White Scar - never been, so can't comment, apologies.
> Chapel should be open all year round.
Chapel Head has bird restrictions placed on the crag every year from March until June unless the BMC say otherwise.
Your post was a bit ambiguous in that you are either making a statement of fact, or a statement to say that bird restrictions should not be in place so hopefully this clarifies things for others reading.
Peregrines nested successfully for the first time at Chapel Head this year ever since the restrictions were placed on the crag. Read into that what you will...
As for White Scar - never been, so can't comment, apologies.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
The White Scar matter goes back years (1990's) as you may know to the installation of a ladder, to the base, and wires along the bottom without the owners permission. The crag and the land round there is owned by the people of the nearby village of Crosthwaite. Unfortunately at the time permission could not be regained and there was a ban for five years after which this would be reviewed. After the feelings however had not changed and permission was not given.
There have been some approaches recently which looked promising but not sure of latest - so best just wait and see and don't upset any "applecarts".
Quite an amazing crag - climbed the E3 up the front of Space Buttress years ago - using the "in situ" rope at that time - not sure if I was sporting lycra on that one like Mike Lovatt. Later gained the base of the crag using the ladder (in my hush puppies) whilst checking out the situation for the BMC - the ladder and the rope have now long gone.
Rob Dyers is the new access officer replacing Guy Keating
The White Scar matter goes back years (1990's) as you may know to the installation of a ladder, to the base, and wires along the bottom without the owners permission. The crag and the land round there is owned by the people of the nearby village of Crosthwaite. Unfortunately at the time permission could not be regained and there was a ban for five years after which this would be reviewed. After the feelings however had not changed and permission was not given.
There have been some approaches recently which looked promising but not sure of latest - so best just wait and see and don't upset any "applecarts".
Quite an amazing crag - climbed the E3 up the front of Space Buttress years ago - using the "in situ" rope at that time - not sure if I was sporting lycra on that one like Mike Lovatt. Later gained the base of the crag using the ladder (in my hush puppies) whilst checking out the situation for the BMC - the ladder and the rope have now long gone.
Rob Dyers is the new access officer replacing Guy Keating
In reply:
Sooo.. after watching WS access progress for years, the chronology is something like: the ban expired... wasn't lifted... over the years since, replies from BMC to queries;the online BMC RAD updates and various Climbing Mag BMC columns stated that negotiations were "ongoing with the landowners." The most recent RAD comments re "trial period" have been there for an age now... so it doesn't seem likely that any applecarts are being rocked much at the mo...in a previous thread, a comment was made that Chapel Head access is linked to WS ban...any truth to this? Also the "other" party has been variously described as the local villagers (who don't seem to know anything about it, other than someone can remember the ladder and some crowds after a "Magazine special"); or the land agents...
And time seems to be passing... the face is becoming greener and more and more vegetated....
Am I missing anything, or has there been other progress behind the scenes...?
Sooo.. after watching WS access progress for years, the chronology is something like: the ban expired... wasn't lifted... over the years since, replies from BMC to queries;the online BMC RAD updates and various Climbing Mag BMC columns stated that negotiations were "ongoing with the landowners." The most recent RAD comments re "trial period" have been there for an age now... so it doesn't seem likely that any applecarts are being rocked much at the mo...in a previous thread, a comment was made that Chapel Head access is linked to WS ban...any truth to this? Also the "other" party has been variously described as the local villagers (who don't seem to know anything about it, other than someone can remember the ladder and some crowds after a "Magazine special"); or the land agents...
And time seems to be passing... the face is becoming greener and more and more vegetated....
Am I missing anything, or has there been other progress behind the scenes...?
In reply to Ron Kenyon: I remember myself and Les Ainsworth speculating about getting the fire brigade to long term practise using their high pressure hoses on the choss at the base to see if they could spray it off leaving one of the biggest limestone crags in the country
In reply to Ron Kenyon:
Hi Rob, I live in Crosthwaite and have spoken all be it informally to some members of the landowners committee re the access situation at white scar in the past.
Do you or anyone have any contact details for Rob Dyers as I feel as a 'local landowner' (well i have a house in the village) I may be in a position to assist with the ongoing access situation.
Glenn
Hi Rob, I live in Crosthwaite and have spoken all be it informally to some members of the landowners committee re the access situation at white scar in the past.
Do you or anyone have any contact details for Rob Dyers as I feel as a 'local landowner' (well i have a house in the village) I may be in a position to assist with the ongoing access situation.
Glenn
In reply to Toreador:
Thanks, I did a search and found nothing.
Thanks, I did a search and found nothing.
In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe:
...and here http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Profile.aspx?id=570 there is no s athe end of Dyer!
...and here http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Profile.aspx?id=570 there is no s athe end of Dyer!
In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe: Hi Glen, email received and I'll definitely be in touch about this - many thanks for your offer of help!
In reply to everyone else - rest assured that this is still very much a live issue for the BMC which I've been discussing with local access reps and it will be brought up at the Mountain Liason Group meeting in a few weeks. (For those who dont know, the MLG is a number of key Lake Distirct stakeholders with interests in mountain access such as the National Park Authority, Natural England, MOD etc). The NPA and others are keen to help in any way they can so hopefully between Glen and the MLG we might establish some new avenues to pursue.
Cheers,
Rob Dyer
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (English Regions)
In reply to everyone else - rest assured that this is still very much a live issue for the BMC which I've been discussing with local access reps and it will be brought up at the Mountain Liason Group meeting in a few weeks. (For those who dont know, the MLG is a number of key Lake Distirct stakeholders with interests in mountain access such as the National Park Authority, Natural England, MOD etc). The NPA and others are keen to help in any way they can so hopefully between Glen and the MLG we might establish some new avenues to pursue.
Cheers,
Rob Dyer
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (English Regions)
In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC: Hi Rob. Sorry to pile more on your plate (and for hijacking the original thread!) but is there any chance of the BMC negotiating access back at Lazonby in the Eden Valley? It's a major sandstone crag equally worthy of attention.
In reply to Karl Lunt: Hi Karl, I don't know the history behind it but will chat to the local Access Reps and see if there's anything that can be done.
In reply to Karl Lunt:
Rob and myself met up last weekend and talked about the (innumerable) access problems in the area.
As regards White Scar there have been some moves - Rob is aware of this.
as regards Lazonby I am afraid this is a no-no. The local gentry/landowners spent about £75,000 some years ago on legal fee to stop access to Armathwaite (under the bridge and along the river) and to Lazonby - so they meant business. Some approaches made over the years - but still a no-no. With the new guide coming out it would be good to get it in but with no access this may not be done. I was down on the River Eden not long ago and just gazed at the crag - which brought back some memories with Merry Monk; Scilicosis; Cobweb Wall etc etc
I worked out that every crag in the Eden Valley area has had its access issues - currently these are also at The Hoff and Scratchmere Scar - which have loomed in the last week and I am looking into.
Rob and myself met up last weekend and talked about the (innumerable) access problems in the area.
As regards White Scar there have been some moves - Rob is aware of this.
as regards Lazonby I am afraid this is a no-no. The local gentry/landowners spent about £75,000 some years ago on legal fee to stop access to Armathwaite (under the bridge and along the river) and to Lazonby - so they meant business. Some approaches made over the years - but still a no-no. With the new guide coming out it would be good to get it in but with no access this may not be done. I was down on the River Eden not long ago and just gazed at the crag - which brought back some memories with Merry Monk; Scilicosis; Cobweb Wall etc etc
I worked out that every crag in the Eden Valley area has had its access issues - currently these are also at The Hoff and Scratchmere Scar - which have loomed in the last week and I am looking into.
In reply to Ron Kenyon: I really don't envy you both and thanks for your efforts! I think it's got a lot to do with the Eden part of Cumbria (and White Scar also) being a backwater with regards to climbing. The landowners have never had to bow the knee to public pressure as they have in the Peak or the Lakes. If only we could have an access situation like the Scots. I wonder if the way to go would be to seek a partial access to fit in with the angling/shooting concerns? A few weeks perhaps would be better than none at all.
In reply to Karl Lunt:
Hi Karl,
The big difference in the fells is that virtually all the crags are on land that is owned by the National Trust, Forestry, United Utilities or the National Park Authority who look benignly on climbers. Also, most of it, being useless for much else is on access land. Sadly this is not so for the Eden Valley.
Hi Karl,
The big difference in the fells is that virtually all the crags are on land that is owned by the National Trust, Forestry, United Utilities or the National Park Authority who look benignly on climbers. Also, most of it, being useless for much else is on access land. Sadly this is not so for the Eden Valley.
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