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Any suggestions for 'must do' HVS or E1s North or South Pembroke? I've got my eye on leading The Arrow (seconded before) and Rock Idol. Done Army Dreamers and Frontline at St Govans before. Any particular crag recommendations? Not looking for sandbags or softies.
Cheers, Pete.
Cheers, Pete.
In reply to teflonpete:
Heart of Darkness on Mowing Word. You could combine that with Snozwanger and Blowing in the Wind for a great day.
Cool for Cats and Manzoku at Stennis Head are great, and there is another great traverse line at HVS there - Riders on the Storm.
At that grade though you'll be spoiled for choice with very few letdowns.
Heart of Darkness on Mowing Word. You could combine that with Snozwanger and Blowing in the Wind for a great day.
Cool for Cats and Manzoku at Stennis Head are great, and there is another great traverse line at HVS there - Riders on the Storm.
At that grade though you'll be spoiled for choice with very few letdowns.
In reply to teflonpete:
At HVS I think Bludgeon at Stennis Head is good but it is on the soft end of the grade so you may not be interested. I found it an order of magnitude less polished and therefore better (and easier) than stuff like Army Dreamers!
At E1 I can recommend Lucky Strike at Rusty Walls - not massively hard but exposed and requires a confident approach. It's also pretty well-protected and mostly non-strenuous, though that didn't stop me from getting pumped/freaked out on the crux and taking a dangle of shame on my gear.
At HVS I think Bludgeon at Stennis Head is good but it is on the soft end of the grade so you may not be interested. I found it an order of magnitude less polished and therefore better (and easier) than stuff like Army Dreamers!
At E1 I can recommend Lucky Strike at Rusty Walls - not massively hard but exposed and requires a confident approach. It's also pretty well-protected and mostly non-strenuous, though that didn't stop me from getting pumped/freaked out on the crux and taking a dangle of shame on my gear.
In reply to teflonpete:
i thought the arrow was a bit crap (contraversial)! Very polished. Although i climbed in 25degree conditions when i was sweating off the thing! Clean hand blues band was good. Riders on the storm good @ hvs.
i thought the arrow was a bit crap (contraversial)! Very polished. Although i climbed in 25degree conditions when i was sweating off the thing! Clean hand blues band was good. Riders on the storm good @ hvs.
In reply to teflonpete:
Lucky Strike is the climb for you Pete
Seal Hunt. Cool for Cats. Manzoku.
Strait Gate
Riders on the Storm... Awesome hvs
Lucky Strike is the climb for you Pete
Seal Hunt. Cool for Cats. Manzoku.
Strait Gate
Riders on the Storm... Awesome hvs
In reply to Cragrat Rich: A second yes for Riders ... brilliant traverse.
Also plenty to go at up at carreg y barcud on the sandstone - led Ethos (HVS/E1) a couple of sundays ago and it was good.
Wishful Thinking at The Castle is also incredibly good climbing at E1.
Also plenty to go at up at carreg y barcud on the sandstone - led Ethos (HVS/E1) a couple of sundays ago and it was good.
Wishful Thinking at The Castle is also incredibly good climbing at E1.
In reply to teflonpete:
If you fancy a day in the North get to Carreg y Barcud. That's a brilliant spot with a lot of E1s, and certainly the two I sampled felt solid but fair at the grade. While you're at it you could consider dropping in on Caerfai. It's a nice sheltered crag, just subtract one from every grade in the book(!).
If you fancy a day in the North get to Carreg y Barcud. That's a brilliant spot with a lot of E1s, and certainly the two I sampled felt solid but fair at the grade. While you're at it you could consider dropping in on Caerfai. It's a nice sheltered crag, just subtract one from every grade in the book(!).
In reply to teflonpete: Hhhm, Rock Idol is great and I'd agree with whoever mentioned the Strait Gate. My two favorite E1s at St Govans would be Kraken [rather soft though!] and War Games [in my view much better than the Arrow]. Another must is Shape Up in Huntsmans Leap, great climbing with the added advantage of being in the Leap!
In reply to irish paul:
I'll put in another vote for "Shape Up" in the Leap tis awesome.
I also rated Magic Flute at Becks Bay for somthing a little quirky.
I'll put in another vote for "Shape Up" in the Leap tis awesome.
I also rated Magic Flute at Becks Bay for somthing a little quirky.
My Tuppence
Strait Gate = hard E1 and v pumpy, felt like E2 to me. Bloody brilliant tho.
Lucky Strike = did it recently, wasn’t having best trip but also felt hard for E1. Never felt great about the pro until end of traverse. Also 3 star but you need a competent second, probably good enough to be able to lead it
Manzoku and Cool for Cats = much more ameniable, CFC the easier of the two since it peters out earlier on which Manzoku, the better of the two, keeps on trucking
Rock Idol = the one to go for. Easy E1, tons of gear, don’t get spooked by the starting wall which can get you pumped if you don’t climb it quickly. The steep bits are on huge holds.
Sinecure = another recommendation, good gear once you’ve conquered the start, technical high steps and rock overs, not pumpy
The Arrow = beware the start but thereafter bomber gear
Shape Up = felt hard E1, greasy and strenuous. Beast from Undergrowth felt easier, despite E2 tag. Slightly run out by mild crux on good, spaced holds. I’m 6 foot, if shorter may feel harder on crux.
B Team Buttress = worth seeking out
Strait Gate = hard E1 and v pumpy, felt like E2 to me. Bloody brilliant tho.
Lucky Strike = did it recently, wasn’t having best trip but also felt hard for E1. Never felt great about the pro until end of traverse. Also 3 star but you need a competent second, probably good enough to be able to lead it
Manzoku and Cool for Cats = much more ameniable, CFC the easier of the two since it peters out earlier on which Manzoku, the better of the two, keeps on trucking
Rock Idol = the one to go for. Easy E1, tons of gear, don’t get spooked by the starting wall which can get you pumped if you don’t climb it quickly. The steep bits are on huge holds.
Sinecure = another recommendation, good gear once you’ve conquered the start, technical high steps and rock overs, not pumpy
The Arrow = beware the start but thereafter bomber gear
Shape Up = felt hard E1, greasy and strenuous. Beast from Undergrowth felt easier, despite E2 tag. Slightly run out by mild crux on good, spaced holds. I’m 6 foot, if shorter may feel harder on crux.
B Team Buttress = worth seeking out
In reply to teflonpete:
This was my first Pembroke E1. Great route and venue.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=26116
This was my first Pembroke E1. Great route and venue.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=26116
In reply to Owen W-G:
A good list.
Lucky Strike is the best E1 in the world - the exposure and position makes it feel really hard, but in actual fact the climbing is straightforward (I would even say it's easy for E1, speaking purely technically).
The Arrow is a fine climb but a little overrated, invariably busy, and nearer HVS than E1 if you don't do the direct finish.
Manzoku I thought was desperate for E1, though I must have done it wrong.
Strait Gate is also sandbag like many of the routes at Mother Scary's. It's much harder than, say, The Strand at Gogarth (E2 5b).
B Team Buttress is a fine route and a great first E1.
Sinecure is a bit of a one move wonder, and also you have to be happy soloing 4c-ish to start.
The Hole is a must-do HVS, the start's the hardest bit.
Surprise Attack at Mewsford is a longer walk than most of the other routes mentioned, but most definately worth it (and probably worth E2).
And also Dreamboat Annie, soft touch even for HVS, but an excellent route.
A good list.
Lucky Strike is the best E1 in the world - the exposure and position makes it feel really hard, but in actual fact the climbing is straightforward (I would even say it's easy for E1, speaking purely technically).
The Arrow is a fine climb but a little overrated, invariably busy, and nearer HVS than E1 if you don't do the direct finish.
Manzoku I thought was desperate for E1, though I must have done it wrong.
Strait Gate is also sandbag like many of the routes at Mother Scary's. It's much harder than, say, The Strand at Gogarth (E2 5b).
B Team Buttress is a fine route and a great first E1.
Sinecure is a bit of a one move wonder, and also you have to be happy soloing 4c-ish to start.
The Hole is a must-do HVS, the start's the hardest bit.
Surprise Attack at Mewsford is a longer walk than most of the other routes mentioned, but most definately worth it (and probably worth E2).
And also Dreamboat Annie, soft touch even for HVS, but an excellent route.
In reply to irish paul:
Not sure if it's better, but it's very good. It gets E2 in some places, it's certainly harder than The Arrow.
> War Games [in my view much better than the Arrow].
Not sure if it's better, but it's very good. It gets E2 in some places, it's certainly harder than The Arrow.
In reply to teflonpete:
although rather unknown there is an E1 at the Castle called Wishful Thinking, it looks really hard, but the hold are huge and keep coming, highly reccommended.
Also, The arrow is great, much less polished than Army Dreamers.
Rider's on the Storm is amazing.
Also, although it is E2, Brazen Buttress at Mother Carey's is great climbing all the way. Not too hard just fairly sustained 5b but very well protected. It is pretty much vertical so it isn't really powerful but you get a pretty good pump going by the top!
Enjoy, Pembroke is a great place.
although rather unknown there is an E1 at the Castle called Wishful Thinking, it looks really hard, but the hold are huge and keep coming, highly reccommended.
Also, The arrow is great, much less polished than Army Dreamers.
Rider's on the Storm is amazing.
Also, although it is E2, Brazen Buttress at Mother Carey's is great climbing all the way. Not too hard just fairly sustained 5b but very well protected. It is pretty much vertical so it isn't really powerful but you get a pretty good pump going by the top!
Enjoy, Pembroke is a great place.
In reply to teflonpete:
Inner Space (if it's dry). Rock Idol is great, but I had way more fun doing this the same day.
Heart Of Darkness for sheer atmosphere.
Hercules just left of Manzoku is pretty good too.
Dreamboat Annie is a great line and nice climbing, but it's pretty short and the only HVS at the crag. It could be combined with a trip to Carreg-Y-Barcud, but I wouldn't make a trip from South Pembroke just for that one route.
Inner Space (if it's dry). Rock Idol is great, but I had way more fun doing this the same day.
Heart Of Darkness for sheer atmosphere.
Hercules just left of Manzoku is pretty good too.
Dreamboat Annie is a great line and nice climbing, but it's pretty short and the only HVS at the crag. It could be combined with a trip to Carreg-Y-Barcud, but I wouldn't make a trip from South Pembroke just for that one route.
In reply to teflonpete: not got alot of experience but will throw in some ideas. I thought army dreamers was pretty horrid, didnt like it at all, i didnt think much of the arrow either, though the crux had some nice climbing on it. I really did enjoy shape up in huntsmans leap. Its the easiest route down there, its e1 and in stunning sorroundings.
Cheers
Dave
Cheers
Dave
In reply to jonny taylor:
Careful there, uncertain smile is the only e2 ive realy struggled on and had to ebseil off ... maybe im not a good slab climber, but it was defintely e2!! (i thought) - running out of rp's and micros didnt help either.
Cheers
Dave
> (In reply to teflonpete)
> consider dropping in on Caerfai. It's a nice sheltered crag, just subtract one from every grade in the book(!).
> consider dropping in on Caerfai. It's a nice sheltered crag, just subtract one from every grade in the book(!).
Careful there, uncertain smile is the only e2 ive realy struggled on and had to ebseil off ... maybe im not a good slab climber, but it was defintely e2!! (i thought) - running out of rp's and micros didnt help either.
Cheers
Dave
In reply to teflonpete:
Another vote for Mother Scarey's - I've beena few times recently and just love the atmosphere of the place.
Rock Idol, Straight Gate and Inner Space are all awesome and great fun at the grade you want.
Not sure I'd agree about E2 for Straight Gate - it's pumpy, but there's loads of great gear and nothing that hard on it. Definately at the E 1/2 borderline though.
Did a few HVS at St Govans earlier this year as well.
Cupids Bow and Army Dreamers are really enjoyable routes.
Have fun wherever you decide to go!
Andy
Another vote for Mother Scarey's - I've beena few times recently and just love the atmosphere of the place.
Rock Idol, Straight Gate and Inner Space are all awesome and great fun at the grade you want.
Not sure I'd agree about E2 for Straight Gate - it's pumpy, but there's loads of great gear and nothing that hard on it. Definately at the E 1/2 borderline though.
Did a few HVS at St Govans earlier this year as well.
Cupids Bow and Army Dreamers are really enjoyable routes.
Have fun wherever you decide to go!
Andy
In reply to teflonpete:
A couple which haven't been mentioned yet:
- Pigs on the Wing at Triple Overhang - the most amazing situation for HVS.
- Soldier of Fortune at Trevallen - rare to get a roof this big at E1.
And a bit of esoterica which is worth a visit, even if only for the last twenty feet: Subterranean Rabbit Launcher (HVS) at Ripper Cliff.
In reply to Owen W-G:
In the CC guide it is E2.
Or one who can prussik Also E2 in the CC guide, although I think E1 is right for this, at least if starting from the niche. I have never done it starting from the boulder in the sea, although I think that the entire route means starting here.
[...]
Brilliant route!
In reply to irish paul:
I thought the Kraken was hard for E1. Maybe easy if you're good at huge overhangs with huge holds.
A couple which haven't been mentioned yet:
- Pigs on the Wing at Triple Overhang - the most amazing situation for HVS.
- Soldier of Fortune at Trevallen - rare to get a roof this big at E1.
And a bit of esoterica which is worth a visit, even if only for the last twenty feet: Subterranean Rabbit Launcher (HVS) at Ripper Cliff.
In reply to Owen W-G:
> My Tuppence
>
> Strait Gate = hard E1 and v pumpy, felt like E2 to me. Bloody brilliant tho.
>
> Strait Gate = hard E1 and v pumpy, felt like E2 to me. Bloody brilliant tho.
In the CC guide it is E2.
>
> Lucky Strike = did it recently, wasn’t having best trip but also felt hard for E1. Never felt great about the pro until end of traverse. Also 3 star but you need a competent second, probably good enough to be able to lead it
> Lucky Strike = did it recently, wasn’t having best trip but also felt hard for E1. Never felt great about the pro until end of traverse. Also 3 star but you need a competent second, probably good enough to be able to lead it
Or one who can prussik Also E2 in the CC guide, although I think E1 is right for this, at least if starting from the niche. I have never done it starting from the boulder in the sea, although I think that the entire route means starting here.
[...]
>
> B Team Buttress = worth seeking out
> B Team Buttress = worth seeking out
Brilliant route!
In reply to irish paul:
> Kraken [rather soft though!]
I thought the Kraken was hard for E1. Maybe easy if you're good at huge overhangs with huge holds.
In reply to teflonpete:
Cheers for the recommendations folks. Plenty to go at there. Fancied a trip to the North side so I'll go to Carreg y Barcud for a look if I get the chance. Loved the sandstone on Armorican earlier in the year.
Cheers for the recommendations folks. Plenty to go at there. Fancied a trip to the North side so I'll go to Carreg y Barcud for a look if I get the chance. Loved the sandstone on Armorican earlier in the year.
In reply to teflonpete:
Good plan. Barcud is a lot steeper and feels a lot more serious than Caerfai, but it's got some brilliant climbing.
Good plan. Barcud is a lot steeper and feels a lot more serious than Caerfai, but it's got some brilliant climbing.
In reply to teflonpete:
My top choices from St David's down
Dreamboat Annie E1/HVS 5a - nice position easy reach from the campsite but getting a little polished small cams and wires give spaced and questionable protection otherwise it is a solo.
sinecure E1 5b - steep with a 4c solo start but steady enough.
Beyond the Azimuth E1/HVS 5b an awesome route!
Bounty HVS 5a lovely route with some good moves do it in combination with Aero HVS 5a or B Team Butress E1 5b
Shape up E2 5b but easy at the grade, It's in the Leap what more do you want?
Riders on the Storm HVS 5a another classic route. Not good for high seas though.
Hercules HVS 5a soft for the grade but an excellent route that is varied
Front line HVS 5a cracking route with an interesting start.
If you find The Arrow easy....
try Tactician HVS 5a but bloody pumpy!
Heart of Darkness HVS a classic if free of seabirds.
Deep Space E2 or if you prefer it wet and easier the Inner Space (Mother carey's)
Magic Flute E1/2 5b Becks bay really unusual probably more E1 than E2 well worth seeking out.
My top choices from St David's down
Dreamboat Annie E1/HVS 5a - nice position easy reach from the campsite but getting a little polished small cams and wires give spaced and questionable protection otherwise it is a solo.
sinecure E1 5b - steep with a 4c solo start but steady enough.
Beyond the Azimuth E1/HVS 5b an awesome route!
Bounty HVS 5a lovely route with some good moves do it in combination with Aero HVS 5a or B Team Butress E1 5b
Shape up E2 5b but easy at the grade, It's in the Leap what more do you want?
Riders on the Storm HVS 5a another classic route. Not good for high seas though.
Hercules HVS 5a soft for the grade but an excellent route that is varied
Front line HVS 5a cracking route with an interesting start.
If you find The Arrow easy....
try Tactician HVS 5a but bloody pumpy!
Heart of Darkness HVS a classic if free of seabirds.
Deep Space E2 or if you prefer it wet and easier the Inner Space (Mother carey's)
Magic Flute E1/2 5b Becks bay really unusual probably more E1 than E2 well worth seeking out.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I'm sorry, but Dreamboat Annie, polished? Unless that's happened in the last 6 months then there wasn't any sign of anything even approaching polish when I did it (twice) in March. And small cams won't helo you in the slightest, but lots of very small nuts will.
And Hercules is only soft if you start up the ramp on the left rather than the offwidth on the right. At least I thought so...
I'm sorry, but Dreamboat Annie, polished? Unless that's happened in the last 6 months then there wasn't any sign of anything even approaching polish when I did it (twice) in March. And small cams won't helo you in the slightest, but lots of very small nuts will.
And Hercules is only soft if you start up the ramp on the left rather than the offwidth on the right. At least I thought so...
In reply to teflonpete:
Off down there myself on Sunday. All this route talk is making me wet
Looking at Dreamboat Annie, Sinicure and Amorican myself. My partner though has never climbed sea cliffs and I was thinking of the first day at Flimston bay, the 6 routes on page 65 of the rockfax guide look a great, safe introduction to the delights of the sea. Anyone know anything I don't?
Off down there myself on Sunday. All this route talk is making me wet
Looking at Dreamboat Annie, Sinicure and Amorican myself. My partner though has never climbed sea cliffs and I was thinking of the first day at Flimston bay, the 6 routes on page 65 of the rockfax guide look a great, safe introduction to the delights of the sea. Anyone know anything I don't?
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I don't know - please tell me if you know more than I do! I did it in 2002.
Alex
>
> Hasn't Subterranean Rabbit Launcher fallen down?
> Hasn't Subterranean Rabbit Launcher fallen down?
I don't know - please tell me if you know more than I do! I did it in 2002.
Alex
In reply to alex_th: He's right - it is no more (or at least extremely dangerous).
In reply to teflonpete:
Dreamboat annie
Dreamboat annie
In reply to blanchie14c: I wouldnt let your mate stress too much about craig caerfai. Its a gorgeous spot, you can ab in of the steaks over the main slab, or some just a little bit right (facing out).
Armorican is a really nice vs, snd dream boat annie is a really nice, take loads of rp's and micro wires and you can lace it.
Cheers
dave
Armorican is a really nice vs, snd dream boat annie is a really nice, take loads of rp's and micro wires and you can lace it.
Cheers
dave
In reply to blanchie14c:
There are 2 stakes right at the top of Armorican. It's a brilliant VS, possibly my favourite single pitch sea cliff VS, that or Lost Horizon in Devon. Got my eye on a soft E2 at Caerfai, maybe on Sunday. You can scramble down easily to the routes on the left hand slab at Caerfai so no need to abseil and you get a bit longer on the ledge there when the tide starts coming in. I've PMd you my mobi no, give us a shout if you fancy hooking up, there's going to be a few of us about.
There are 2 stakes right at the top of Armorican. It's a brilliant VS, possibly my favourite single pitch sea cliff VS, that or Lost Horizon in Devon. Got my eye on a soft E2 at Caerfai, maybe on Sunday. You can scramble down easily to the routes on the left hand slab at Caerfai so no need to abseil and you get a bit longer on the ledge there when the tide starts coming in. I've PMd you my mobi no, give us a shout if you fancy hooking up, there's going to be a few of us about.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Why don't people just recommend the climbs like was asked instead of reeling off a load of shite subjective beta about how hard it allegedly is etc?
Why don't people just recommend the climbs like was asked instead of reeling off a load of shite subjective beta about how hard it allegedly is etc?
In reply to victim of mathematics:
May be it was the conditions at the time, I just found it slippy.
I used a small alien, a slider and two small nuts ( a 1 and a 2 if I remember right).
Cracking route though
May be it was the conditions at the time, I just found it slippy.
I used a small alien, a slider and two small nuts ( a 1 and a 2 if I remember right).
Cracking route though
In reply to teflonpete: Can't see it on the list so Malice Aforethought cna't remember where exactly but around Stennis. HVS, very exposed good ab in
In reply to teflonpete:
Cheers for that and you too Dave F. We'll be down from sunday night to Tuesday night, 2 1/2 days climbing hopefully. Will see where you at at if things go to plan, forecast not bad at the moment...
Cheers for that and you too Dave F. We'll be down from sunday night to Tuesday night, 2 1/2 days climbing hopefully. Will see where you at at if things go to plan, forecast not bad at the moment...
In reply to teflonpete:
Funny, I did that a few years back and i too thought it was brilliant. If you can climb grit cracks, Lost H is divine. Was beaming for days after that route, my first hard sea cliff VS.
> (In reply to blanchie14c)
Armorican. It's a brilliant VS, possibly my favourite single pitch sea cliff VS, that or Lost Horizon in Devon. Funny, I did that a few years back and i too thought it was brilliant. If you can climb grit cracks, Lost H is divine. Was beaming for days after that route, my first hard sea cliff VS.
In reply to teflonpete:
Personally I think Riders on the Storm is probably the most overrated route in Pembroke, if not the country.
Bludgeon is not so much the lower end of the HVS grade as the lower end of the VS grade. It wouldn't be that out of place at Hard Severe. Is it really harder than Tophet Wall?
A couple of less mainstream recommendations; Sunny Corner on Bosherston Head, and Space on, er, I think it's called Space Buttress.
And a reliable source told me Stackpole Cracks was as good as any E1 in Pembroke, not that I've done it myself.
jcm
Personally I think Riders on the Storm is probably the most overrated route in Pembroke, if not the country.
Bludgeon is not so much the lower end of the HVS grade as the lower end of the VS grade. It wouldn't be that out of place at Hard Severe. Is it really harder than Tophet Wall?
A couple of less mainstream recommendations; Sunny Corner on Bosherston Head, and Space on, er, I think it's called Space Buttress.
And a reliable source told me Stackpole Cracks was as good as any E1 in Pembroke, not that I've done it myself.
jcm
In reply to teflonpete:
Last time i was there i did High Life (E1) on Bosherston head - excellent climbing in fantastic positions above the Preposterous Tales cave. Has the same start as Preposterous Tales too, allowing a big day out at E1ish without re-rigging the ab.
Last time i was there i did High Life (E1) on Bosherston head - excellent climbing in fantastic positions above the Preposterous Tales cave. Has the same start as Preposterous Tales too, allowing a big day out at E1ish without re-rigging the ab.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
> Personally I think Riders on the Storm is probably the most overrated route in Pembroke, if not the country
For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
Because this is a forum, where people discuss things?
Since we're asking silly questions though, why is it that you're such a tedious buffoon?
> (In reply to Owen W-G)
>
> Why don't people just recommend the climbs like was asked instead of reeling off a load of shite subjective beta about how hard it allegedly is etc?
>
> Why don't people just recommend the climbs like was asked instead of reeling off a load of shite subjective beta about how hard it allegedly is etc?
Because this is a forum, where people discuss things?
Since we're asking silly questions though, why is it that you're such a tedious buffoon?
In reply to Alun:
I'd disagree, I've done most of the HVS's and E1's mentioned in this thread over the last two years, and Riders on the Storm was one of my favs. It might make some difference that E1 is my top leading grade while I see Alun & John both climb considerably harder.
Bludgeon isn't that hard and is well protected but I think it is worth HVS, for a HVS leader.
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
> For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
> [...]
>
> For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
I'd disagree, I've done most of the HVS's and E1's mentioned in this thread over the last two years, and Riders on the Storm was one of my favs. It might make some difference that E1 is my top leading grade while I see Alun & John both climb considerably harder.
Bludgeon isn't that hard and is well protected but I think it is worth HVS, for a HVS leader.
In reply to mountain.martin:
I'm with you too Martin, Riders on the Storm was great. Lovely position, stunning sharp rock, with a few pretty stiff moves for HVS I thought. My contribution if you like traverses is Pigs on the Wing on Triple overhang, a wild hanging belay followed by some of the largest jugs you'll ever get to pull on.
I'm with you too Martin, Riders on the Storm was great. Lovely position, stunning sharp rock, with a few pretty stiff moves for HVS I thought. My contribution if you like traverses is Pigs on the Wing on Triple overhang, a wild hanging belay followed by some of the largest jugs you'll ever get to pull on.
In reply to Alun: It's not unknown for people to take the wrong line for Riders on the Storm, and I don't think it a soft touch for HVS. If you really did climb it with a big sea running then your idea of a big sea is very different from mine.
In reply to spacey:
Totally agree with you both re: Riders (which I have seconded and unfortunately left some of JohnE's gear in for fear of landing in the drink if i pulled too hard)and Bludgeon (which i have led, ok it is not 'physically' challenging but it is not a push over either).
Pigs sounds like a really good route which is on my to do list.
> (In reply to mountain.martin)
>
> I'm with you too Martin, Riders on the Storm was great. Lovely position, stunning sharp rock, with a few pretty stiff moves for HVS I thought. My contribution if you like traverses is Pigs on the Wing on Triple overhang, a wild hanging belay followed by some of the largest jugs you'll ever get to pull on.
>
> I'm with you too Martin, Riders on the Storm was great. Lovely position, stunning sharp rock, with a few pretty stiff moves for HVS I thought. My contribution if you like traverses is Pigs on the Wing on Triple overhang, a wild hanging belay followed by some of the largest jugs you'll ever get to pull on.
Totally agree with you both re: Riders (which I have seconded and unfortunately left some of JohnE's gear in for fear of landing in the drink if i pulled too hard)and Bludgeon (which i have led, ok it is not 'physically' challenging but it is not a push over either).
Pigs sounds like a really good route which is on my to do list.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
That's uncalled for... I was making a perfectly valid and reasonable point!
The OP on a forum is responsible for setting the tone with his query.
I'm genuinely interested to know why everyone let loose with a beta run down of every classic E1 in Pembroke, when that specifically wasn't the request?
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
>
> Because this is a forum, where people discuss things?
>
> Since we're asking silly questions though, why is it that you're such a tedious buffoon?
> [...]
>
> Because this is a forum, where people discuss things?
>
> Since we're asking silly questions though, why is it that you're such a tedious buffoon?
That's uncalled for... I was making a perfectly valid and reasonable point!
The OP on a forum is responsible for setting the tone with his query.
I'm genuinely interested to know why everyone let loose with a beta run down of every classic E1 in Pembroke, when that specifically wasn't the request?
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
It wasn't specifically what was asked for - very different to being specifically not asked for
I've not really done a bad one so far. Manzoku, Wishful Thinking and Rock Idol are probably my favourites to date...
It wasn't specifically what was asked for - very different to being specifically not asked for
I've not really done a bad one so far. Manzoku, Wishful Thinking and Rock Idol are probably my favourites to date...
In reply to AJM:
I realise i'm up against a very large tsunami in a very small wooden boat!
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
>
> It wasn't specifically what was asked for - very different to being specifically not asked for
>
> It wasn't specifically what was asked for - very different to being specifically not asked for
I realise i'm up against a very large tsunami in a very small wooden boat!
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
As in "real" conversations, people (myself incuded) are just as keen to express their opinion & thoughts as they are to answer the question.
> (In reply to AJM)
> [...]
>
>
> I realise i'm up against a very large tsunami in a very small wooden boat!
> [...]
>
>
> I realise i'm up against a very large tsunami in a very small wooden boat!
As in "real" conversations, people (myself incuded) are just as keen to express their opinion & thoughts as they are to answer the question.
In reply to mountain.martin:
No. As in (as I discussed with a mate) when someone won't stop giving you directions to somewhere despite you clearly stating that you might just manage to scrape through by yourself.
Have you not noticed an occurance where a person at a busy crag manages to climb a route and then stands there giving a walkthrough to all and sundry afterwards, who probably don't particularly want their onsight experience being compromised so rudely.
It's the same thing. Tw*ts!
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
>
> As in "real" conversations, people (myself incuded) are just as keen to express their opinion & thoughts as they are to answer the question.
> [...]
>
> As in "real" conversations, people (myself incuded) are just as keen to express their opinion & thoughts as they are to answer the question.
No. As in (as I discussed with a mate) when someone won't stop giving you directions to somewhere despite you clearly stating that you might just manage to scrape through by yourself.
Have you not noticed an occurance where a person at a busy crag manages to climb a route and then stands there giving a walkthrough to all and sundry afterwards, who probably don't particularly want their onsight experience being compromised so rudely.
It's the same thing. Tw*ts!
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
I know what you mean Rich, and have to admit I can be guilty of it myself when I'm excited about a route or topic.
I have been told before that I can be a bit of a tw*t sometimes.
I know what you mean Rich, and have to admit I can be guilty of it myself when I'm excited about a route or topic.
I have been told before that I can be a bit of a tw*t sometimes.
In reply to teflonpete:
Oh, I'm sorry teflonpete, I thought you said
I'm still paddling guys
> Any suggestions for 'must do' HVS or E1s North or South Pembroke?
> Any particular crag recommendations? Not looking for sandbags or softies.
Oh, I'm sorry teflonpete, I thought you said
> Can someone give me a run down on the difficulties encountered on a selection of the best E1's and HVS's in pembroke. I need to know
> a) Which are difficult for the grade
> b) Which are soft for the grade
> c) Where the cruxes are
> d) How sustained difficulties are generally
> e) How they all compare to each other
> a) Which are difficult for the grade
> b) Which are soft for the grade
> c) Where the cruxes are
> d) How sustained difficulties are generally
> e) How they all compare to each other
> Any additional information to strip more adventure from my trip would be welcomed!
I'm still paddling guys
In reply to Cragrat Rich: and yet he forgot to say "Don`t give me any beta, I`m obsessed with the onsight and don`t want to know anything about the routes other than the name before I try them" which you would have thought he might mention if he was that fussed about it.
In reply to chris j:
yeah! 8-)
He is known to be 'fairly strict' onsight-wise though.
In fact he's been known to question my onsight ethics (believe it or not)
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich) and yet he forgot to say "Don`t give me any beta, I`m obsessed with the onsight and don`t want to know anything about the routes other than the name before I try them" which you would have thought he might mention if he was that fussed about it.
yeah! 8-)
He is known to be 'fairly strict' onsight-wise though.
In fact he's been known to question my onsight ethics (believe it or not)
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
I just read your mean reply to me. Hardly beta cheater to be compared to the bloke at the crag who gives you unrequested move by move description and nut sizes.
I thought you were a nice man.
I just read your mean reply to me. Hardly beta cheater to be compared to the bloke at the crag who gives you unrequested move by move description and nut sizes.
I thought you were a nice man.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Well since you're here to discuss it. I would ask you what were your motivations for posting the run down you did.
a. To suggest good climbs he should do
or
b. To help him make decisions about whether he should climb them or not.
If it was b. i'm sure you were just trying to help and i'm sure also, that he probably didn't mind you doing it.
My response was admittedly bourne out of frustration of why people didn't choose option a. like I did.
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
>
> I just read your mean reply to me. Hardly beta cheater to be compared to the bloke at the crag who gives you unrequested move by move description and nut sizes.
>
> I just read your mean reply to me. Hardly beta cheater to be compared to the bloke at the crag who gives you unrequested move by move description and nut sizes.
Well since you're here to discuss it. I would ask you what were your motivations for posting the run down you did.
a. To suggest good climbs he should do
or
b. To help him make decisions about whether he should climb them or not.
If it was b. i'm sure you were just trying to help and i'm sure also, that he probably didn't mind you doing it.
My response was admittedly bourne out of frustration of why people didn't choose option a. like I did.
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
Given that you didn't ask the question, and the OP hasn't actually voiced any complaints about the style of responses received, why are you getting frustrated on somebody else's behalf for no good reason? Don't go imposing your pompous flouncing onsight nonsense on everybody else unbidden. And don't go waving your "the OP is known to be strict on these kinds of things" argument; prior knowledge of somebody's climbing proclivities is hardly a reasonable assumption to make when asking a question.
See, you are a tedious buffoon, I was just a bit premature...
> (In reply to Owen W-G)
> [...]
> [...]
> My response was admittedly bourne out of frustration of why people didn't choose option a. like I did.
Given that you didn't ask the question, and the OP hasn't actually voiced any complaints about the style of responses received, why are you getting frustrated on somebody else's behalf for no good reason? Don't go imposing your pompous flouncing onsight nonsense on everybody else unbidden. And don't go waving your "the OP is known to be strict on these kinds of things" argument; prior knowledge of somebody's climbing proclivities is hardly a reasonable assumption to make when asking a question.
See, you are a tedious buffoon, I was just a bit premature...
In reply to victim of mathematics:
You're getting a little uptight, despite suggesting that's what I was doing.
Few questions :
Is it ok for me to think it's annoying and rubbish when people go dishing out a load of beta about climbs, uselessly based only on their own perspective anyway?
Is it ok for me to express that via a post?
and...
Why did you get so irate?
You're getting a little uptight, despite suggesting that's what I was doing.
Few questions :
Is it ok for me to think it's annoying and rubbish when people go dishing out a load of beta about climbs, uselessly based only on their own perspective anyway?
Is it ok for me to express that via a post?
and...
Why did you get so irate?
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
I never said I wasn't uptight, just that you were...
Yes it's OK. It's really tedious, but it's OK (although if it's so subjective as to be useless then what's the problem?).
Yes it is. Nobody will give two hoots, but that's fine.
What isn't fine is you whittering on incessantly and impressing your own extremist onsight views on everybody at every possible opportunity, as you do on a regular basis. If somebody asks for route recommendations, it's a damn sight more illuminating if people add a little flavour of the routes they are recommending, rather than just list some good routes. Whether this be the general style of the route (a recommendation of some excellent crack climbs would be totally unhelpful to some weirdy slab-merchant) or even just some superlatives about how ace the route is. I accept that sometimes people can over-enthuse to the point of possibly giving away a very small amount of beta, although I'm not sure that anything said on this thread couldn't be gleaned from either the guidebook, or just by looking at the routes themselves, but only a really grumpy onsight-fascist would get quite so annoyed about it. As I said, this is especially pointless since you didn't even start the thread and are putting opinions and words into the OP's mouth.
I'm always irate, but you have a particularly illustrious history of talking complete and utter codswallop. I imagine much of this is as part of some 'comedy' internet persona, but it's getting unimaginably tired now.
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> You're getting a little uptight, despite suggesting that's what I was doing.
>
>
> You're getting a little uptight, despite suggesting that's what I was doing.
>
I never said I wasn't uptight, just that you were...
> Few questions :
>
> Is it ok for me to think it's annoying and rubbish when people go dishing out a load of beta about climbs, uselessly based only on their own perspective anyway?
>
>
> Is it ok for me to think it's annoying and rubbish when people go dishing out a load of beta about climbs, uselessly based only on their own perspective anyway?
>
Yes it's OK. It's really tedious, but it's OK (although if it's so subjective as to be useless then what's the problem?).
> Is it ok for me to express that via a post?
>
>
Yes it is. Nobody will give two hoots, but that's fine.
What isn't fine is you whittering on incessantly and impressing your own extremist onsight views on everybody at every possible opportunity, as you do on a regular basis. If somebody asks for route recommendations, it's a damn sight more illuminating if people add a little flavour of the routes they are recommending, rather than just list some good routes. Whether this be the general style of the route (a recommendation of some excellent crack climbs would be totally unhelpful to some weirdy slab-merchant) or even just some superlatives about how ace the route is. I accept that sometimes people can over-enthuse to the point of possibly giving away a very small amount of beta, although I'm not sure that anything said on this thread couldn't be gleaned from either the guidebook, or just by looking at the routes themselves, but only a really grumpy onsight-fascist would get quite so annoyed about it. As I said, this is especially pointless since you didn't even start the thread and are putting opinions and words into the OP's mouth.
> and...
>
> Why did you get so irate?
>
> Why did you get so irate?
I'm always irate, but you have a particularly illustrious history of talking complete and utter codswallop. I imagine much of this is as part of some 'comedy' internet persona, but it's getting unimaginably tired now.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
Onsight facist... Yeah. I'm lovin it! Very passionate if that's what you mean.
I just think people should restrain themselves and shut up with the walk throughs that's all.
I'm not expecting people to obey so don't worry, just an opinion which i'm entitled to put forward.
No big deal... No hard feelings.
If i make even one single person adjust their onsight ethic even slightly, it'd be bonus
Onsight facist... Yeah. I'm lovin it! Very passionate if that's what you mean.
I just think people should restrain themselves and shut up with the walk throughs that's all.
I'm not expecting people to obey so don't worry, just an opinion which i'm entitled to put forward.
No big deal... No hard feelings.
If i make even one single person adjust their onsight ethic even slightly, it'd be bonus
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
Got to go. About to get back on Mumbo Jumbo at Flamingo Land. It's the steepest roller coaster in the world!
(Starts off ok, well protected but slightly fast going up. Then shifts into an off vertical drop which is ok for the grade and ends in a double twist inversion. Good gear througout but the exposure is not for the faint hearted) 8-)
Got to go. About to get back on Mumbo Jumbo at Flamingo Land. It's the steepest roller coaster in the world!
(Starts off ok, well protected but slightly fast going up. Then shifts into an off vertical drop which is ok for the grade and ends in a double twist inversion. Good gear througout but the exposure is not for the faint hearted) 8-)
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
Is that the kind of walk throughs that your logbook notes are littered with (in far greater detail than anybody in the thread has run to)?
I really don't think the climbing community is quite so ethically bankrupt as you seem to think, which is what is so baffling about you. Just who are you crusading against? From here it just looks like you're shouting REALLY LOUDLY ALL THE TIME to a bunch of indifferent people who actually think a lot like you, you just don't want to see that.
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> I just think people should restrain themselves and shut up with the walk throughs that's all.
Is that the kind of walk throughs that your logbook notes are littered with (in far greater detail than anybody in the thread has run to)?
> If i make even one single person adjust their onsight ethic even slightly, it'd be bonus
I really don't think the climbing community is quite so ethically bankrupt as you seem to think, which is what is so baffling about you. Just who are you crusading against? From here it just looks like you're shouting REALLY LOUDLY ALL THE TIME to a bunch of indifferent people who actually think a lot like you, you just don't want to see that.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I don't read log books pre ascent... It's cheating.
I like to read them after...
Anyway, i treat it as a record of my feelings and experiences on the climb, something for my grandkids to reflect on maybe?
If people wanna read my notes before their ascent, that's their problem. Pathetic cheating slime that they are
I don't read log books pre ascent... It's cheating.
I like to read them after...
Anyway, i treat it as a record of my feelings and experiences on the climb, something for my grandkids to reflect on maybe?
If people wanna read my notes before their ascent, that's their problem. Pathetic cheating slime that they are
In reply to teflonpete:
Well, I'm back!
Had a great weekend, led 'Hercules', 'The Bludgeon' and 'Cool for cats' at Stennis and 'Be Brave' at Carreg y Barcud. 'Hercules' was alright but the other 3 were reet good and I'd recommend them. Seconded 'Telekenesis' at Bosherton. I'd recommend that too.
Thanks for the recommendations guys.
Just to clear up the onsight argument that flared up (from my point of view), I wasn't looking for beta on the routes, just recommendations of routes that people enjoyed. An opinion that a route is harder or easier than another one doesn't spoil the onsight for me as everyone's got styles that suit different climbs so it's quite subjective. I wouldn't have wanted any info on gear or how to do a crux move or anything.
Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and I look forward to climbing some more of them next time I get back there.
Cheers,
Pete.
Well, I'm back!
Had a great weekend, led 'Hercules', 'The Bludgeon' and 'Cool for cats' at Stennis and 'Be Brave' at Carreg y Barcud. 'Hercules' was alright but the other 3 were reet good and I'd recommend them. Seconded 'Telekenesis' at Bosherton. I'd recommend that too.
Thanks for the recommendations guys.
Just to clear up the onsight argument that flared up (from my point of view), I wasn't looking for beta on the routes, just recommendations of routes that people enjoyed. An opinion that a route is harder or easier than another one doesn't spoil the onsight for me as everyone's got styles that suit different climbs so it's quite subjective. I wouldn't have wanted any info on gear or how to do a crux move or anything.
Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and I look forward to climbing some more of them next time I get back there.
Cheers,
Pete.
In reply to John2:
Hmm, maybe we did indeed take a wrong line, then. I'll have to go back and check it out.
> It's not unknown for people to take the wrong line for Riders on the Storm, and I don't think it a soft touch for HVS. If you really did climb it with a big sea running then your idea of a big sea is very different from mine
Hmm, maybe we did indeed take a wrong line, then. I'll have to go back and check it out.
In reply to Alun:
Big difference on second. I thought the same as you after seconding it.
Wish I could have led it, but opted to help two damsels in distress instead. (rare (and confusing) fit of generosity & consideration on my part)
Anyway, I've just checked your profile Alun...
I'm sure you WERE on the right line and i'm also sure you DID bimble along it thinking it was soft...
Being that you climb F7b+ and E5 and all!!
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
> For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
> [...]
>
> For once I agree with jcm. I was rather underwhelmed by Riders on the Storm, despite doing it with a big sea running. It just seems like a rather pointless bimble across the cliff. Very soft touch for HVS too, although I confess I wasn't leading.
Big difference on second. I thought the same as you after seconding it.
Wish I could have led it, but opted to help two damsels in distress instead. (rare (and confusing) fit of generosity & consideration on my part)
Anyway, I've just checked your profile Alun...
I'm sure you WERE on the right line and i'm also sure you DID bimble along it thinking it was soft...
Being that you climb F7b+ and E5 and all!!
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
...but I can still get spanked on a HVS, as I found out at Stanage a few weeks ago! :S
but I take your point about seconding, and I also take John2's point about being easy to find the wrong line. Either way it's an excuse to go back
> I'm sure you WERE on the right line and i'm also sure you DID bimble along it thinking it was soft...
> Being that you climb F7b+ and E5 and all!!
> Being that you climb F7b+ and E5 and all!!
...but I can still get spanked on a HVS, as I found out at Stanage a few weeks ago! :S
but I take your point about seconding, and I also take John2's point about being easy to find the wrong line. Either way it's an excuse to go back
In reply to Alun:
Terazza Crack??
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
>
> ...but I can still get spanked on a HVS, as I found out at Stanage a few weeks ago! :S
> [...]
>
> ...but I can still get spanked on a HVS, as I found out at Stanage a few weeks ago! :S
Terazza Crack??
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