In reply to NorthernRock:
I fear your not going to understand this since it was put quite simply by a few people before, but I'll try...
> The point I am trying to make is the E56a is the grade, because thats how its climbed.
Correct.
> It is not climbed with bolts, therefore why try to give it a sports grade.
For the reasons stated above - it helps describe the nature of the climbing in a way the above grade doesn't. Reread some posts, I'm not typing it out again as it was put quite simply before.
> If you want to know how sustained, or how pumpy, then read the description in the guide.
You can do that too, often that doesn't tell you how pumpy a route is just where it goes. Whats your objection to knowing both?
> All it does, is tell you that many people can climb 6c/6c+, but not that many have the bollocks to climb Right Wall, even though it should be within their technical/physical ability.
You're definitely confused now. It tells you nothing of the sort. It tells you that RW is about 6c/+ which is completely unrelated to anyone's bollocks. In fact why even mention them, have you caught the trad/sport superiority bug that seems all the rage round here?
> Raindogs has nothing to do with it as a route, I just picked an 8a out of the air, and suggested that we try and grade that with English grades. The point is......you cant......because its bolted. Say you could place gear at every bolt position, whats the grade then? Meaningless. E6 7a?
Ummm, here you show some ignorance I think. E can be for effort as well as danger etc. And sport routes used to be given E grades prior to the adoption of the french grade for sport routes.
Raindogs has no really desperate moves, just plenty of tricky ones, thus something like E7 6b may well fit the bill. I can't remember what grade it had before sport grades were used exclusively. Other more bouldery 8a's will have had grades along the lines of E7 6c, thus having harder moves but less sustained. So no I wouldn't say meaningless, though probably less helpful than using the font system do describe the nature of a crux sequence.
I'd also add that sport grades for trad routes only really become much use around the mid extremes. Below that then F4/F5 etc don't really tell you too much so, IMO.