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I don't want this to degenerate into the usual Trad v Sport frag fest, as fun as they are.....
Before other commitments, (and a few years ago) I was happy climbing up to E2, with the odd forage into E3 if it suited me.
However, I classed myself as a solid E1 climber, able to onsight 99% of the routes I chose at this grade.
I now pootle around VS HVS, and class myself as a VS climber.
I have also worked routes up to 7c, but only one, mind!
How do you class yourself?
Do Sport climbers say they are 8a climbers, if they have worked this grade?
Do Trad climbers say they are E4 climbers, if they have climbed this grade?
Before other commitments, (and a few years ago) I was happy climbing up to E2, with the odd forage into E3 if it suited me.
However, I classed myself as a solid E1 climber, able to onsight 99% of the routes I chose at this grade.
I now pootle around VS HVS, and class myself as a VS climber.
I have also worked routes up to 7c, but only one, mind!
How do you class yourself?
Do Sport climbers say they are 8a climbers, if they have worked this grade?
Do Trad climbers say they are E4 climbers, if they have climbed this grade?
In reply to NorthernRock: On a good day I have Onsight 7a+ and E5 ... On a bad day I swear a lot and have fun at HVS. If the route looks good and It feels ok then I will go for most things.
When I was a lot younger I seconded a number of E5-7 routes without much trouble at all so I know I can climb that hard.
I dont hold onto the grade too much as good moves come at all grades and my enjoyment of climbing comes from a number of different areas in a day out.
When I was a lot younger I seconded a number of E5-7 routes without much trouble at all so I know I can climb that hard.
I dont hold onto the grade too much as good moves come at all grades and my enjoyment of climbing comes from a number of different areas in a day out.
In reply to NorthernRock:
1. Yes because aren't sports grades graded for that very method. I don't because I approach sport the same way that I do trad i.e. on sight. From experience I know that this will limit me to 7a at best.
2. Yes but again I don't. I used to climb E4 fairly regularly but haven't for some time. I think that what you lead regularly is what counts.
It is not important but those are my personal ethics.
Al
>
> Do Sport climbers say they are 8a climbers, if they have worked this grade?
> Do Trad climbers say they are E4 climbers, if they have climbed this grade?
> Do Sport climbers say they are 8a climbers, if they have worked this grade?
> Do Trad climbers say they are E4 climbers, if they have climbed this grade?
1. Yes because aren't sports grades graded for that very method. I don't because I approach sport the same way that I do trad i.e. on sight. From experience I know that this will limit me to 7a at best.
2. Yes but again I don't. I used to climb E4 fairly regularly but haven't for some time. I think that what you lead regularly is what counts.
It is not important but those are my personal ethics.
Al
In reply to NorthernRock:
This year I've onsighted 51/51 VSs, 37/38 HVSs (Nowanda shut me down) and 8/8 E1s that I've attempted, but I'd still consider myself a VS leader. Mostly because I think I should be able to get up the vast majority of VSs without dying (although Aero at Crickmail Point gave me a fright last month), but probably partly because I tend to climb fairly conservatively most of the time (as those figues bear out).
This year I've onsighted 51/51 VSs, 37/38 HVSs (Nowanda shut me down) and 8/8 E1s that I've attempted, but I'd still consider myself a VS leader. Mostly because I think I should be able to get up the vast majority of VSs without dying (although Aero at Crickmail Point gave me a fright last month), but probably partly because I tend to climb fairly conservatively most of the time (as those figues bear out).
In reply to NorthernRock:
I'm a VS climber who wants to be a HVS climber. I've led a lot more VS routes than HVS and feel solid at the grade (although there are one or two that still allude me). The difference in difficulty between a solid VS and a solid HVS still seems huge for me. My goal is to train stamina, stop being a pansy and 'go for it' on some well protected HVS 5b routes.
I'm a VS climber who wants to be a HVS climber. I've led a lot more VS routes than HVS and feel solid at the grade (although there are one or two that still allude me). The difference in difficulty between a solid VS and a solid HVS still seems huge for me. My goal is to train stamina, stop being a pansy and 'go for it' on some well protected HVS 5b routes.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
My Stats for the year must be pretty similar to yours (The HVS I backed off was pigs on the Wing on Triple Overhang, very near Aero), but if anybody asked with those stats I would call myself an E1 leader.
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> This year I've onsighted 51/51 VSs, 37/38 HVSs (Nowanda shut me down) and 8/8 E1s that I've attempted, but I'd still consider myself a VS leader.
>
> This year I've onsighted 51/51 VSs, 37/38 HVSs (Nowanda shut me down) and 8/8 E1s that I've attempted, but I'd still consider myself a VS leader.
My Stats for the year must be pretty similar to yours (The HVS I backed off was pigs on the Wing on Triple Overhang, very near Aero), but if anybody asked with those stats I would call myself an E1 leader.
In reply to NorthernRock:
I don't really do enough sport to have a grade. It's probably around 6a - 6a+ onsight (I've never redpointed a sport route outdoors).
On trad, I've onsighted 3 E1s this year and fallen off another one twice. Done a few HVSs, fallen off one and backed off another.
Led clean or onsighted every VS I've tried this year so I'd say I'm a solid VS leader. I want to be solid at HVS/E1 but I'm not there yet.
I don't really do enough sport to have a grade. It's probably around 6a - 6a+ onsight (I've never redpointed a sport route outdoors).
On trad, I've onsighted 3 E1s this year and fallen off another one twice. Done a few HVSs, fallen off one and backed off another.
Led clean or onsighted every VS I've tried this year so I'd say I'm a solid VS leader. I want to be solid at HVS/E1 but I'm not there yet.
In reply to andy farnell: Touche dude, touche.
the grade 'you climb' is the grade you consistently onsight, but even then its not gurannteed!
the grade 'you climb' is the grade you consistently onsight, but even then its not gurannteed!
In reply to tallsop:
So what do sports climbers class as their grade?
A consistent on sight?
a consistent redpoint?
the project they are currently working on?
their best redpoint?
As the ethics are different, are the definition of standard different? I'm an 8a climber, coz most of my time on a rope is spent dangling off draws on 8a??
So what do sports climbers class as their grade?
A consistent on sight?
a consistent redpoint?
the project they are currently working on?
their best redpoint?
As the ethics are different, are the definition of standard different? I'm an 8a climber, coz most of my time on a rope is spent dangling off draws on 8a??
In reply to NorthernRock: highest grade ever was e3, but that was about 15 years ago before i got scared
best i've led recently is VS, but plan to push it up into the low e numbers this coming summer. i know i can climb this, just got too used to 2nding over the last few years, and my mate only climbs up to hvs so thats what i have got used to
tend to come unstuck around 6a on sandstone
never climbed a sport route in my life
best i've led recently is VS, but plan to push it up into the low e numbers this coming summer. i know i can climb this, just got too used to 2nding over the last few years, and my mate only climbs up to hvs so thats what i have got used to
tend to come unstuck around 6a on sandstone
never climbed a sport route in my life
In reply to NorthernRock:
Look, the whole point about 'one's grade' is that - for most climbers - there's no such thing. Unless you are so fanatical that you climb to the detriment of everything else in life, over the years your standard will go up and down like a yo-yo. And when you start and are very keen, your grade is going upwards almost by the week. Then it's all over the place (depending on your life history), then, after about the age of 40 it's very gently downhill.
Look, the whole point about 'one's grade' is that - for most climbers - there's no such thing. Unless you are so fanatical that you climb to the detriment of everything else in life, over the years your standard will go up and down like a yo-yo. And when you start and are very keen, your grade is going upwards almost by the week. Then it's all over the place (depending on your life history), then, after about the age of 40 it's very gently downhill.
In reply to NorthernRock:
My climbing grade, in all types of climbing, is 'not as high as it should be but seems to be good fun anyway and occasionally scary'
My climbing grade, in all types of climbing, is 'not as high as it should be but seems to be good fun anyway and occasionally scary'
In reply to NorthernRock:
What defines the grade 'they climb at', I think, is the grade where they are onsighting successfully! & regularly!, not necessarily as a percentage.
I've onsighted 100% (large number of) at E1 this year but I've also onsighted a high percentage at E2 (but not regularly) and also have onsighted 100% at E3, but hardly any!
Alot of people make all kinds of flattering claims that they do E this and E that, but lo and behold, they are often found at the crag settling for VS/HVS's for some strange reason?
I think a chart for me would look something like this
- FOR 'SUCCESSFUL' ONSIGHTING
HS & below - Boring
VS - Fun & relaxed leads/soloing
HVS - Warm up leads/Soloing
E1 - Standard grade ascents
E2 - Carefully considered ascents
E3 - Pushing the boat Out ascents (Mojo's working & everything is in my favour)
E4 - Beyond limits but feasible
E5 - Not for now!/Headpoint
E6 - Headpoint grade
There is scope for crossover of course, but not much ultimately... I'm pretty consistent - but on the upslope of progress currently, which is good!!
It could look like this (but i've no desire to indulge) :
<E1 - No interest
E1 - Warm up
E2 - Going for it carefree
E3 - Going for it mentalist stylie
E4 - Dogging/Getting hurt alot
E5 - Wasting alot of valuable climbing time or Dying
Personally with Sport grades it doesn't matter, it's all just practice!
> How do you class yourself?
What defines the grade 'they climb at', I think, is the grade where they are onsighting successfully! & regularly!, not necessarily as a percentage.
I've onsighted 100% (large number of) at E1 this year but I've also onsighted a high percentage at E2 (but not regularly) and also have onsighted 100% at E3, but hardly any!
Alot of people make all kinds of flattering claims that they do E this and E that, but lo and behold, they are often found at the crag settling for VS/HVS's for some strange reason?
I think a chart for me would look something like this
- FOR 'SUCCESSFUL' ONSIGHTING
HS & below - Boring
VS - Fun & relaxed leads/soloing
HVS - Warm up leads/Soloing
E1 - Standard grade ascents
E2 - Carefully considered ascents
E3 - Pushing the boat Out ascents (Mojo's working & everything is in my favour)
E4 - Beyond limits but feasible
E5 - Not for now!/Headpoint
E6 - Headpoint grade
There is scope for crossover of course, but not much ultimately... I'm pretty consistent - but on the upslope of progress currently, which is good!!
It could look like this (but i've no desire to indulge) :
<E1 - No interest
E1 - Warm up
E2 - Going for it carefree
E3 - Going for it mentalist stylie
E4 - Dogging/Getting hurt alot
E5 - Wasting alot of valuable climbing time or Dying
Personally with Sport grades it doesn't matter, it's all just practice!
In reply to NorthernRock:
Do people really arse themselves with classing themselves? maybe T-shirts or badges would catch on then? "I'm am E1 man" etc?
Do people really arse themselves with classing themselves? maybe T-shirts or badges would catch on then? "I'm am E1 man" etc?
In reply to NorthernRock:
This is the stuff of climbing anorachs (that's probably the scottish spelling by the way ha ha).
This is the stuff of climbing anorachs (that's probably the scottish spelling by the way ha ha).
In reply to Stefan Kruger:
Let's see a bolt clipper put a positive spin on that one, as from the other recent thread, your only sport climbing properly if you are failing all the time!
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
Let's see a bolt clipper put a positive spin on that one, as from the other recent thread, your only sport climbing properly if you are failing all the time!
In reply to Stefan Kruger:
Cool. I've just been promoted from E1 to E2!!
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
Cool. I've just been promoted from E1 to E2!!
In reply to NorthernRock:
To me to be solid at a grade you should be capable of nearly all routes that are fairly graded on any rock type you are familar with on any style. That for me is VS. Stefan's addition was funny but too many climbers avoid their weaknesses for this to be applicable (ie they wont fail on the route that their grade should be as they won't try it).
To me to be solid at a grade you should be capable of nearly all routes that are fairly graded on any rock type you are familar with on any style. That for me is VS. Stefan's addition was funny but too many climbers avoid their weaknesses for this to be applicable (ie they wont fail on the route that their grade should be as they won't try it).
In reply to NorthernRock:
Have onsighted E3 but not regularly. Mainly climb in HVS-E2 range.
If I ever opened my mouth and said the words 'I'm an E1 climber' I'd probably shoot myself.
Have onsighted E3 but not regularly. Mainly climb in HVS-E2 range.
If I ever opened my mouth and said the words 'I'm an E1 climber' I'd probably shoot myself.
In reply to Owen W-G:
I agree, does anyone actually go around saying this sort of thing? We talk about routes we've done and want to do and you can figure things out from there but to actually come out and say "I'm a VS/E1/E9 climber", a little bit crass, no?
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> If I ever opened my mouth and said the words 'I'm an E1 climber' I'd probably shoot myself.
>
> If I ever opened my mouth and said the words 'I'm an E1 climber' I'd probably shoot myself.
I agree, does anyone actually go around saying this sort of thing? We talk about routes we've done and want to do and you can figure things out from there but to actually come out and say "I'm a VS/E1/E9 climber", a little bit crass, no?
In reply to Stefan Kruger:
Not fair ! That means that even though I've onsighted 3 E2s (on 3 differant rock types) this year, I'm a V Diff climber cos I can't get off the ground on Verandah Buttress.
I am not a grade, I'm a free man !
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
>
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
Not fair ! That means that even though I've onsighted 3 E2s (on 3 differant rock types) this year, I'm a V Diff climber cos I can't get off the ground on Verandah Buttress.
I am not a grade, I'm a free man !
In reply to NorthernRock:
I'm probably a VS climber on the 99% rule, an HVS climber on a 90% rule, an E1 climber on a 50% rule and an E2 climber on a 2% rule.
I never actually work sports routes but probably 6a+ on a 50% rule.
I'm probably a VS climber on the 99% rule, an HVS climber on a 90% rule, an E1 climber on a 50% rule and an E2 climber on a 2% rule.
I never actually work sports routes but probably 6a+ on a 50% rule.
In reply to NorthernRock: Me? I'm a vdiff climber who occassionally has ideas of grandeur!
In reply to GrahamD:
wahey - so can I be a E3 climber on the "when pigs fly" rule?
> (In reply to NorthernRock)
>
> I'm probably a VS climber on the 99% rule, an HVS climber on a 90% rule, an E1 climber on a 50% rule and an E2 climber on a 2% rule.
>
> I'm probably a VS climber on the 99% rule, an HVS climber on a 90% rule, an E1 climber on a 50% rule and an E2 climber on a 2% rule.
wahey - so can I be a E3 climber on the "when pigs fly" rule?
In reply to NorthernRock:
I'm a bigger ranges man myself - gazes into the distnce towards Stoodley Pike.
I'm a bigger ranges man myself - gazes into the distnce towards Stoodley Pike.
In reply to Stefan Kruger:
Can I actually be a moderate climber?
> Your grade = the lowest grade on which you've failed in the last year.
Can I actually be a moderate climber?
In reply to NorthernRock: Well, I suceed on nearly all VS and HVS routes I've tried this year and all but 2 of the E1s and I've got a 50:50 record on the E2s but I'd be confident of doing pretty much any VS and I'd attempt nearly all HVS and E1 routes
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
I really don't get attitudes like this - the quality of the climb is not necessarily proportional to its difficulty. There are some quality and classic Diffs and V Diffs out there that any climber would enjoy, equally there are some pants E1s etc...
> HS & below - Boring
I really don't get attitudes like this - the quality of the climb is not necessarily proportional to its difficulty. There are some quality and classic Diffs and V Diffs out there that any climber would enjoy, equally there are some pants E1s etc...
In reply to MJH:
Rubbish. If the climbing is TOO easy... It's boring.
I didn't get into climbing as a means of gaining a good view
Rubbish. If the climbing is TOO easy... It's boring.
I didn't get into climbing as a means of gaining a good view
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
You certainly haven't got a good view.
> (In reply to MJH)
>
> Rubbish. If the climbing is TOO easy... It's boring.
> I didn't get into climbing as a means of gaining a good view
>
> Rubbish. If the climbing is TOO easy... It's boring.
> I didn't get into climbing as a means of gaining a good view
You certainly haven't got a good view.
In reply to Cragrat Rich: gotta disagree with you. I finally did Little Chamonix this spring and absolutely loved it. Very easy climbing but great exposure, fantastic belay positions and views. (yes, I do enjoy the views). We all climb for different reasons and I guess whether we find all easy climbs boring will depend on that! I would rather do an easy climb in a stunning location than a more challenging climb at an ugly venue (derby delph springs to mind...)
In reply to pebbles:
Each to their own innit... Personally i've not got enough time to waste pottering about... And i've got lots of free time!
Each to their own innit... Personally i've not got enough time to waste pottering about... And i've got lots of free time!
In reply to pebbles:
To be fair P. The boring grade comment which was pasted in was referring to about about 5 or 6 stops below my lead limit. And was in regard to onsight leading!
(don't you just hate it when folk cut and paste you out of context)
So to make a reasonable comparison... You'd have to be commenting on whether you find leading grade 2 scrambles onsight boring or not?
My guess is you'd be feeling a tad restricted and unnecessarily weighed down and boredom may well set in
To be fair P. The boring grade comment which was pasted in was referring to about about 5 or 6 stops below my lead limit. And was in regard to onsight leading!
(don't you just hate it when folk cut and paste you out of context)
So to make a reasonable comparison... You'd have to be commenting on whether you find leading grade 2 scrambles onsight boring or not?
My guess is you'd be feeling a tad restricted and unnecessarily weighed down and boredom may well set in
In reply to Bulls Crack:
No. But you've got your opinion and i respect it. As long as we're both clear that that's all it is
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
>
> You certainly haven't got a good view.
> [...]
>
> You certainly haven't got a good view.
No. But you've got your opinion and i respect it. As long as we're both clear that that's all it is
In reply to NorthernRock: I've fired the rig at 8c look for the clues mo fo!
In reply to Cragrat Rich: Rubbish to you too...climbing isn't just about how hard the moves are. History, being in fantastic locations etc are all equally valid reasons for why a climb can be interesting.
Anyway you are just plain wrong that easy climbing = boring. Some of the classic easy climbs have fantastic moves.
Cr*p E grade climbs are cr*p E grade climbs - fine if you want to chase grades, but not a patch on a decent, classic route.
Anyway you are just plain wrong that easy climbing = boring. Some of the classic easy climbs have fantastic moves.
Cr*p E grade climbs are cr*p E grade climbs - fine if you want to chase grades, but not a patch on a decent, classic route.
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
I couldn't resist it!
> (In reply to Bulls Crack)
> [...]
>
> No. But you've got your opinion and i respect it. As long as we're both clear that that's all it is
> [...]
>
> No. But you've got your opinion and i respect it. As long as we're both clear that that's all it is
I couldn't resist it!
In reply to MJH:
What's it got to do with chasing grades?
If i'm on anything less than HS, i'm gonna be piss bored, so i would have selected something more interesting to climb.
Is there any part of that theology that you are still struggling with?
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich) Rubbish to you too...climbing isn't just about how hard the moves are. History, being in fantastic locations etc are all equally valid reasons for why a climb can be interesting.
>
> Anyway you are just plain wrong that easy climbing = boring. Some of the classic easy climbs have fantastic moves.
>
> Cr*p E grade climbs are cr*p E grade climbs - fine if you want to chase grades, but not a patch on a decent, classic route.
>
> Anyway you are just plain wrong that easy climbing = boring. Some of the classic easy climbs have fantastic moves.
>
> Cr*p E grade climbs are cr*p E grade climbs - fine if you want to chase grades, but not a patch on a decent, classic route.
What's it got to do with chasing grades?
If i'm on anything less than HS, i'm gonna be piss bored, so i would have selected something more interesting to climb.
Is there any part of that theology that you are still struggling with?
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
Thought you enjoyed the Matterhorn?
> If i'm on anything less than HS, i'm gonna be piss bored, so i would have selected something more interesting to climb.
Thought you enjoyed the Matterhorn?
In reply to petestack:
Yeah i did but that ain't even climbing dude! It's jogging up jagged paths with a couple of army style assault course sections thrown in for interest
It's
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
>
> Thought you enjoyed the Matterhorn?
> [...]
>
> Thought you enjoyed the Matterhorn?
Yeah i did but that ain't even climbing dude! It's jogging up jagged paths with a couple of army style assault course sections thrown in for interest
It's
In reply to Stefan Kruger: I like this definition!
In reply to NorthernRock:
I have (and now) class myself as a VS climber, because 99% of the routes I try at that grade I'll onsight. If its a slab then I'll generally onsight quite a lot higher than that - E1/E2 these days (it used to be E3/E4) - but I'd never call myself an E1 climber as I'll fail 50% of the time to climb an overhanging E1, an E1 crack, or a technical E1 face climb.
So VS climber it is..
I have (and now) class myself as a VS climber, because 99% of the routes I try at that grade I'll onsight. If its a slab then I'll generally onsight quite a lot higher than that - E1/E2 these days (it used to be E3/E4) - but I'd never call myself an E1 climber as I'll fail 50% of the time to climb an overhanging E1, an E1 crack, or a technical E1 face climb.
So VS climber it is..
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