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I am currently working towards my MIC assessment and I am looking for people who want to learn/ progress in winter climbing and mountaineering. I can tailor the days to suit your needs e.g learn to lead climb, guiding. Please note that all tuition will be free due to the fact i am not a fully qualified MIC.
If you are interested please email me.
Regards
Nathan
If you are interested please email me.
Regards
Nathan
In reply to nathan white: I'd definately be interested in taking you up on some tuition/guiding. Where are you based? Or where would you intend to do the training?
In reply to nathan white: ygm
In reply to nathan white: yhm
In reply to nathan white: Yeah. Im tryin to learnso it would be a massv help to me. definately intrested where are you based?
In reply to nathan white: Yhm
In reply to nathan white: yhm
In reply to nathan white: hi Nathan, sounds great myself and my friend would be interested whenever and wherever! we are planning on being up in scotland most of jan and some of feb, could do before as well.
cheers sam
cheers sam
In reply to nathan white: I am based in aviemore, scotland. So all majaor mountain areas in scotland are possible but it really depends on conditions and a appropriate choice of mountain for ability.
Thanks for all your replys.
I'll be in touch shortly
Nathan
Thanks for all your replys.
I'll be in touch shortly
Nathan
In reply to nathan white:
Hi,
I am interested in your offer do you require contact details etc ?
cheers Sgh
Hi,
I am interested in your offer do you require contact details etc ?
cheers Sgh
In reply to nathan white: I'll be in Scotland in early Feb and would be very interested in getting out for a few days if it fits in with your schedule/conditions. What are your contact details?
In reply to nathan white: Hi I will be in Aviemore in March with my better half and would love to get out if possible, let me know your contact details and we will be in touch.
Patrick
Patrick
In reply to nathan white: Hi Nathan, I would be very interested in taking you up on your offer. I'm up in Aviemore, (Rothiemurchas Lodge) for two weeks 19th Dec - 2nd Jan then Aviemore(Glenmore Lodge)31st-5th Winter Mountain Leader Training course and then I'm hoping to gain scotish winter experience for the remainder of the season. Wish I was up there now although it has just started to snow here in sunny Poole, hope to hear from you, Mick.
In reply to nathan white: yhm
In reply to nathan white: Hi nathan, I'd be interested in a bit of free winter climbing tuition. I've got a chunk of time off between 18-27th Feb. If that works for you please do get in touch. Thanks, David
In reply to nathan white:
would be interested in taking you up on the offer of winter climbing, I would like to learn and am hoping to be up in Scotland the week of the 19th Feb with a couple of friends that would also be interested in learning. Please get in touch
Thanks
would be interested in taking you up on the offer of winter climbing, I would like to learn and am hoping to be up in Scotland the week of the 19th Feb with a couple of friends that would also be interested in learning. Please get in touch
Thanks
In reply to nathan white: ygm
In reply to nathan white: Hello Nathan.., I would also like to join you so as you could teach me some skills, I am very much into winter mountain trekking and have only limited rope climbing skills so this would be great and i know i would get alot out of it.., thankyou kindly, i wait to hear from you but i know you will be inundated with replies to join you so if i am not chosen please dont feel as though you have to let me know, i will just guess by you not getting back to me ok.., no worriz and best of luck to you..KRIS.
In reply to doobers:
Silly 'warning'! Since it's normal for aspirant MICs like the OP to gain experience this way and you don't get to that stage without working hard and passing other significant assessments (eg MIA), I'd expect the tuition to be of good quality.
Silly 'warning'! Since it's normal for aspirant MICs like the OP to gain experience this way and you don't get to that stage without working hard and passing other significant assessments (eg MIA), I'd expect the tuition to be of good quality.
In reply to nathan white: Hi Nathan,
I would be interested on your offer of winter climbing tution, i live in Glasgow so not to far from aviemore and would be available most weekends after christmas.
I have done a lot of winter hillwalking,also grade 1, and the odd grade 2 winter climbs. I also have done course last winter with guide up in aviemore and climbed a few routes up in the corries.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Cheers colin
I would be interested on your offer of winter climbing tution, i live in Glasgow so not to far from aviemore and would be available most weekends after christmas.
I have done a lot of winter hillwalking,also grade 1, and the odd grade 2 winter climbs. I also have done course last winter with guide up in aviemore and climbed a few routes up in the corries.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Cheers colin
In reply to nathan white:
Hi Nathan,
I would definitely be interested in getting out with you sometime if you are able to. Looking at getting into winter climbing much more and establishing more confidence on winter routes, starting easy and working up. I'm a pretty confident mountaineer type so looking to take it to the next level and get out climbing in the winter.
Thanks
Paul
Hi Nathan,
I would definitely be interested in getting out with you sometime if you are able to. Looking at getting into winter climbing much more and establishing more confidence on winter routes, starting easy and working up. I'm a pretty confident mountaineer type so looking to take it to the next level and get out climbing in the winter.
Thanks
Paul
In reply to doobers:
What is it with all the trolling at the moment? Have they opened the cage up for christmas or something?
> In reply to nathan white
>
> A warning to everybody. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys!
>
> A warning to everybody. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys!
What is it with all the trolling at the moment? Have they opened the cage up for christmas or something?
In reply to petestack:
Most people who are learning spend time shadowing other qualified persons, be they MICs or Guides. Sometimes they are paid sometimes not. The point is he's not passed an assessment to prove he's competent in a winter environment, so he could be anybody. In working in close proximity to someone else, they can keep an eye on him to ensure things are being done properly and safely. Also advertising free instruction while not appropriately qualified is stepping on toes of people who are. There's no law against it, but quality is everything.
Most people who are learning spend time shadowing other qualified persons, be they MICs or Guides. Sometimes they are paid sometimes not. The point is he's not passed an assessment to prove he's competent in a winter environment, so he could be anybody. In working in close proximity to someone else, they can keep an eye on him to ensure things are being done properly and safely. Also advertising free instruction while not appropriately qualified is stepping on toes of people who are. There's no law against it, but quality is everything.
In reply to doobers: Is he charging people for instruction? No. In order to have even done his MIC training he will already have considerable winter experience as well as holding the MIA award.
In reply to doobers:
So your posts to this thread are purely altruistic and everyone else is blind? It's normal, yes, normal for aspirants to do this and not stepping on anyone's toes so long as they're honest about what they're doing (which the OP has been)!
So your posts to this thread are purely altruistic and everyone else is blind? It's normal, yes, normal for aspirants to do this and not stepping on anyone's toes so long as they're honest about what they're doing (which the OP has been)!
In reply to doobers: This guy is not pretending or otherwise to anything he is not. He is open and honest saying he is working towards his certs, so give him a break.
Also, I would be interested to meet up and have some instruction sometime. I was hoping with a friend to come up to scotland mid or late feb 2011.
Jon
Also, I would be interested to meet up and have some instruction sometime. I was hoping with a friend to come up to scotland mid or late feb 2011.
Jon
In reply to petestack:
I thought this was a discussion forum. Did i say everyone else was blind? Whether he's charging money or not, he won't be insured and if he's the most qualified out of the group he's now advertised for, he's got a duty of care to them. If they have an accident whilst out with him they won't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!) I'm not saying he's a bad person, in fact i wish him luck with his career, i just think there's better ways to go about it.
I thought this was a discussion forum. Did i say everyone else was blind? Whether he's charging money or not, he won't be insured and if he's the most qualified out of the group he's now advertised for, he's got a duty of care to them. If they have an accident whilst out with him they won't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!) I'm not saying he's a bad person, in fact i wish him luck with his career, i just think there's better ways to go about it.
In reply to doobers:
No, you said 'A warning to everybody. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys!'
> Did i say everyone else was blind?
No, you said 'A warning to everybody. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys!'
In reply to doobers: I think you need to inform the Association of Mountaineering Instructors (AMI) of your concerns. They will put you right.
In reply to doobers:
You are correct in the fact that he is not qualified but that's about it.
The reality is that you need no qualifications to instruct consenting adults in outdoor activities (Look at a lot of the skye guides / instructors).
Nathan is doing the right thing and working his way through his qualifications to prove his worth and have a qualification that states how good he is and the level that he can operate at.
It is part of the logbook for his MIC and part of his further experience between training and assessment to take folks out climbing / mountaineering in winter. I think you'll be hard pushed to find qualified instructors / guides that feel their "toes have been stood on". In fact I think you'll find most if not all supporting Nathan.
You pass your assessments through experience and good practice, without doubt the best way to achieve this is to get out and make those decisions in the real environment with folks that still need a level of looking after.
It's up to the folks that have been out with Nathan to decide the quality of tuition not some person sat on UKClimbing!
To look at a logbook of someone on assessment that has been out doing the job for real often helps make difference between pass and fail.
Mark Chadwick MIC
You are correct in the fact that he is not qualified but that's about it.
The reality is that you need no qualifications to instruct consenting adults in outdoor activities (Look at a lot of the skye guides / instructors).
Nathan is doing the right thing and working his way through his qualifications to prove his worth and have a qualification that states how good he is and the level that he can operate at.
It is part of the logbook for his MIC and part of his further experience between training and assessment to take folks out climbing / mountaineering in winter. I think you'll be hard pushed to find qualified instructors / guides that feel their "toes have been stood on". In fact I think you'll find most if not all supporting Nathan.
You pass your assessments through experience and good practice, without doubt the best way to achieve this is to get out and make those decisions in the real environment with folks that still need a level of looking after.
It's up to the folks that have been out with Nathan to decide the quality of tuition not some person sat on UKClimbing!
To look at a logbook of someone on assessment that has been out doing the job for real often helps make difference between pass and fail.
Mark Chadwick MIC
In reply to doobers:
Please tell us all how?
If you know "better ways"you should contact the Mountain Leader Training board, Plas Y Brenin and the Lodge to pass on this knowledge. I'm sure they would be really interested in what you have to share.
> (In reply to petestack)
>
> I thought this was a discussion forum. Did i say everyone else was blind? Whether he's charging money or not, he won't be insured and if he's the most qualified out of the group he's now advertised for, he's got a duty of care to them. If they have an accident whilst out with him they won't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!) I'm not saying he's a bad person, in fact i wish him luck with his career, i just think there's better ways to go about it.
>
> I thought this was a discussion forum. Did i say everyone else was blind? Whether he's charging money or not, he won't be insured and if he's the most qualified out of the group he's now advertised for, he's got a duty of care to them. If they have an accident whilst out with him they won't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!) I'm not saying he's a bad person, in fact i wish him luck with his career, i just think there's better ways to go about it.
Please tell us all how?
If you know "better ways"you should contact the Mountain Leader Training board, Plas Y Brenin and the Lodge to pass on this knowledge. I'm sure they would be really interested in what you have to share.
In reply to Chadders:
I knew standards at Glenmore Lodge had dropped in recent years, but not this far! Self trained instructors? If you'd read my earlier posts you would have seen that i'd said there's no law against it. Shadowing qualified persons (maybe at the Lodge) would be a better way so they can keep you right. You must have plenty of money if you can compete with 'free courses', but as a civil servant you don't have to. Wait till your early retirement, then you can join the real world.
I knew standards at Glenmore Lodge had dropped in recent years, but not this far! Self trained instructors? If you'd read my earlier posts you would have seen that i'd said there's no law against it. Shadowing qualified persons (maybe at the Lodge) would be a better way so they can keep you right. You must have plenty of money if you can compete with 'free courses', but as a civil servant you don't have to. Wait till your early retirement, then you can join the real world.
In reply to nathan white: yhm
In reply to doobers:
As with most of your threads this makes very little sense?
"Standards at Glenmore Lodge dropping"? Is this still more of your self made delusions or have you just made this up as well and posted it on UK Climbing.
"Self trained instructors", there is and has been, no mention of any self trained instructors only of gaining further experience!
Again there has never been any mention of legal requirements, that's after reading all your earlier inaccurate posts.
This shadowing process already happens hand in hand with gaining further personal experience.
I think you further prove your lack of understanding with your poor judgments as to your 'free courses' comments. I've worked a lot as a freelance instructor, long enough to know how the system works. This world that you mention as the real world you should join it sometime, like the rest of us.
As with most of your threads this makes very little sense?
"Standards at Glenmore Lodge dropping"? Is this still more of your self made delusions or have you just made this up as well and posted it on UK Climbing.
"Self trained instructors", there is and has been, no mention of any self trained instructors only of gaining further experience!
Again there has never been any mention of legal requirements, that's after reading all your earlier inaccurate posts.
This shadowing process already happens hand in hand with gaining further personal experience.
I think you further prove your lack of understanding with your poor judgments as to your 'free courses' comments. I've worked a lot as a freelance instructor, long enough to know how the system works. This world that you mention as the real world you should join it sometime, like the rest of us.
In reply to doobers:
oh for cyring out loud- please tell me you don't actually believe the mince you're spouting?!
this is common (and entirely accepted) normal practice for the aspirant instructors as they go through the assessment process. i've been fortunate enough to climb with nathan before and he's a competent, experienced, patient, driven and conscientious young guy. he's one of three people that i've blagged similair training days from along the way and all of them were excellent at what they do and already had considerable experience of working with people under their belts.
he's also a sound lad- you're noising up the wrong guy.
get back under your bridge, you muppet.
oh for cyring out loud- please tell me you don't actually believe the mince you're spouting?!
this is common (and entirely accepted) normal practice for the aspirant instructors as they go through the assessment process. i've been fortunate enough to climb with nathan before and he's a competent, experienced, patient, driven and conscientious young guy. he's one of three people that i've blagged similair training days from along the way and all of them were excellent at what they do and already had considerable experience of working with people under their belts.
he's also a sound lad- you're noising up the wrong guy.
get back under your bridge, you muppet.
In reply to nathan white: Hi Nathan,
I would be interested on your offer of winter climbing tution, i would be available the last 3weeks of feb and first week of march.
I have done a fair bit of winter hillwalking, multi pitch climbing and a samll amount of winter climbing (just seconding with friends) but i would greatly benefit from profesional tution . Iv also done a winter skills course a few years ago.
I look forward to hearing from you.
mark
I would be interested on your offer of winter climbing tution, i would be available the last 3weeks of feb and first week of march.
I have done a fair bit of winter hillwalking, multi pitch climbing and a samll amount of winter climbing (just seconding with friends) but i would greatly benefit from profesional tution . Iv also done a winter skills course a few years ago.
I look forward to hearing from you.
mark
In reply to doobers:
That how it works for Guides, who have an aspirant stage in there training. MIA/MIC don't have such a stage, though I'm sure many aspiring MIAs and MICs spend time shadowing qualified instructors.
He could be. However to the get the stage where he is ready for MIC assessment he will have already done, and passed, the following: Mountain Leader Training, Mountain Leader Assessment, MIA Training, MIA Assessment, Winter Mountain Leader Training, Winter Mountain Leader Assessment, MIC training. In addition to this he will have to hold a valid first aid qualification and be a member of AMI (Association of Mountaineering Instructors). A quick email to AMI should verify that Nathan is who he says he is - not that I doubt him for one moment.
His MIC training will have taught him how to do stuff safely. As a keen and active climber, plus MIA/WML, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't a very safe and competent climber anyway.
How do you think all qualified instructors got appropriate experience prior to their assessment?
HTH
> (In reply to petestack)
>
> Most people who are learning spend time shadowing other qualified persons, be they MICs or Guides.
>
> Most people who are learning spend time shadowing other qualified persons, be they MICs or Guides.
That how it works for Guides, who have an aspirant stage in there training. MIA/MIC don't have such a stage, though I'm sure many aspiring MIAs and MICs spend time shadowing qualified instructors.
> The point is he's not passed an assessment to prove he's competent in a winter environment, so he could be anybody.
He could be. However to the get the stage where he is ready for MIC assessment he will have already done, and passed, the following: Mountain Leader Training, Mountain Leader Assessment, MIA Training, MIA Assessment, Winter Mountain Leader Training, Winter Mountain Leader Assessment, MIC training. In addition to this he will have to hold a valid first aid qualification and be a member of AMI (Association of Mountaineering Instructors). A quick email to AMI should verify that Nathan is who he says he is - not that I doubt him for one moment.
> In working in close proximity to someone else, they can keep an eye on him to ensure things are being done properly and safely.
His MIC training will have taught him how to do stuff safely. As a keen and active climber, plus MIA/WML, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't a very safe and competent climber anyway.
> Also advertising free instruction while not appropriately qualified is stepping on toes of people who are.
How do you think all qualified instructors got appropriate experience prior to their assessment?
HTH
In reply to nathan white: Nathan, I'll add my name to the list of those interested.
I'm sure that you've read the negative comments about you. It would help your cause if you at the very least made your profile public, and even better put some more info up about yourself.
Hopefully that would quieten down the doubters more than any other UKCers posting in your defence.
I'm sure that you've read the negative comments about you. It would help your cause if you at the very least made your profile public, and even better put some more info up about yourself.
Hopefully that would quieten down the doubters more than any other UKCers posting in your defence.
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Not necessarily (sp?) a member of AMI, there is no requirement to join.
Not necessarily (sp?) a member of AMI, there is no requirement to join.
In reply to nathan white: I am interested in your offer. I have experience of leading up to grade 111 in winter. I have access to time of during the week as well as some weekends. I am based in Perth but willing to travel for the correct conditions. I am willing to share travel and costs. Please get back to me if this fits with yourself. Charlie.
Hi
I apologise for my absence, but I have been over west with some clients I got from this very post. I totally agree with being cautious with whom you climb and encourage you to ask for experience and even verify qualifications through AMI as previously stated. In fact one of my recent clients had a wee epic with a trainee but to quote him after today “My faith in instructors has been restored”.
Recently there has been a change regarding assisting and/or working with a fully qualified instructor. You now, as an employer, have to have mentoring insurance to have a trainee work with you, plus the trainee needs to have an “add on” on their insurance policy (for more info please contact AMI). This is expensive for both people and limited companies/instructors currently have this.
Last year I shadowed a number of courses to gain experience run by a variety of different companies and hope to do the same this year, but at the moment few people are actually running them as the real winter season doesn’t really kick off until January. Shadowing can also be a little awkward for the instructor and clients when there is another person hanging around on belays or soloing next to them. Plus potentially difficult for the trainee when the climbing course ventures onto terrain which is too hazardous to solo. This can also take the concentration away from the instructor when you are teaching because you have someone who is watching every move and also climbing around unroped.
Regarding the comment “stepping on peoples toes” I am sorry if you feel this way. As a trainee I need to gain experience so I can deliver a professional and quality product. I and many folk that have posted feel that this is the best way of doing so, as I get to deal with all the issues that climbing with new people brings rather than the false situation of getting your friends to pretend they are novices.
There is a limited amount of people that I realistically can take climbing/mountaineering when keeping to a safe ratio. That amount is very small and although I am very grateful for all the interest there has been, I will only be able to take out a handful of people. I have to work at some point!
A few of you have asked for a little bit of information about me. So, I am 23 yrs old and have been working in the outdoors for seven years. I am based in Scotland where I work as a freelance instructor running predominately climbing and mountaineering courses year round. In terms of my personal winter climbing; I have been winter climbing for four and a half years up to V/7 and enjoy both ice and mixed climbing. Climbing has taken me too many different places around the world from the Alps in summer and winter to scary big walling in Yosemite. Rain or shine I’m climbing!
Thanks for all the support and all the interest.
Have a great winter.
Nathan
I apologise for my absence, but I have been over west with some clients I got from this very post. I totally agree with being cautious with whom you climb and encourage you to ask for experience and even verify qualifications through AMI as previously stated. In fact one of my recent clients had a wee epic with a trainee but to quote him after today “My faith in instructors has been restored”.
Recently there has been a change regarding assisting and/or working with a fully qualified instructor. You now, as an employer, have to have mentoring insurance to have a trainee work with you, plus the trainee needs to have an “add on” on their insurance policy (for more info please contact AMI). This is expensive for both people and limited companies/instructors currently have this.
Last year I shadowed a number of courses to gain experience run by a variety of different companies and hope to do the same this year, but at the moment few people are actually running them as the real winter season doesn’t really kick off until January. Shadowing can also be a little awkward for the instructor and clients when there is another person hanging around on belays or soloing next to them. Plus potentially difficult for the trainee when the climbing course ventures onto terrain which is too hazardous to solo. This can also take the concentration away from the instructor when you are teaching because you have someone who is watching every move and also climbing around unroped.
Regarding the comment “stepping on peoples toes” I am sorry if you feel this way. As a trainee I need to gain experience so I can deliver a professional and quality product. I and many folk that have posted feel that this is the best way of doing so, as I get to deal with all the issues that climbing with new people brings rather than the false situation of getting your friends to pretend they are novices.
There is a limited amount of people that I realistically can take climbing/mountaineering when keeping to a safe ratio. That amount is very small and although I am very grateful for all the interest there has been, I will only be able to take out a handful of people. I have to work at some point!
A few of you have asked for a little bit of information about me. So, I am 23 yrs old and have been working in the outdoors for seven years. I am based in Scotland where I work as a freelance instructor running predominately climbing and mountaineering courses year round. In terms of my personal winter climbing; I have been winter climbing for four and a half years up to V/7 and enjoy both ice and mixed climbing. Climbing has taken me too many different places around the world from the Alps in summer and winter to scary big walling in Yosemite. Rain or shine I’m climbing!
Thanks for all the support and all the interest.
Have a great winter.
Nathan
In reply to nathan white: Another message in support of Nathan or any other MIC trainee gaining experience in an appropriate manner. Nathan has been shadowing courses and working alongside fully qualified instructors. There comes a point when you need to get out and do things for yourself (as I and countless others have done before him). He does this in an honest, open and entirely sensible fashion and seeks and takes advantage of advice from his peers and other fully qualified MICs (I know he phoned at least one west coast based MIC to ask about conditions and route recommendations before coming over here this weekend).
It is important to stress that if you pay for an Instructor who has been through the relevant Assessment process you can establish exactly what level they have been benchmarked against. This should (as far as possible) guarantee a certain level of ability in your Instructor. If you use a Trainee you don't have that guarantee but if they aren't charging you and you are going out simply as more and less experienced acquaintances then you accept that that is the situation and hopefully everyone learns something from the experience. When you pay for it it should be all about you and your needs and ambitions. When someone offers to share the knowledge they have with you and you volunteer to let them practise their instructional skills on you then it is more about everyone in the party.
As far as duty of care goes we all owe a greater or lesser duty of care to our partners. Obviously with fee paying clients and a qualified instructor that duty of care is very high. Between normal climbers it is less so but still exists. Between a Trainee Instructor and volunteers it lies somewhere in between but if the Trainee is completely up front about the nature of their experience and the risks involved (as with all climbing and mountaineering) then they have gone a long way in discharging their responsibility to those going out with them.
Good luck with your Assessment Nathan.
Al
It is important to stress that if you pay for an Instructor who has been through the relevant Assessment process you can establish exactly what level they have been benchmarked against. This should (as far as possible) guarantee a certain level of ability in your Instructor. If you use a Trainee you don't have that guarantee but if they aren't charging you and you are going out simply as more and less experienced acquaintances then you accept that that is the situation and hopefully everyone learns something from the experience. When you pay for it it should be all about you and your needs and ambitions. When someone offers to share the knowledge they have with you and you volunteer to let them practise their instructional skills on you then it is more about everyone in the party.
As far as duty of care goes we all owe a greater or lesser duty of care to our partners. Obviously with fee paying clients and a qualified instructor that duty of care is very high. Between normal climbers it is less so but still exists. Between a Trainee Instructor and volunteers it lies somewhere in between but if the Trainee is completely up front about the nature of their experience and the risks involved (as with all climbing and mountaineering) then they have gone a long way in discharging their responsibility to those going out with them.
Good luck with your Assessment Nathan.
Al
In reply to nathan white: Hi Nathan, you've got yet more mail. Available weekdays at very short notice. Thanks!
In reply to nathan white:
Hello Nathan,
Bit short notice but are you up for a climbing trip up to Scotland this weekend for 5 days?
Let me know by my email and then we can possibly sort something from there.
Cheers,
Bryce.
Hello Nathan,
Bit short notice but are you up for a climbing trip up to Scotland this weekend for 5 days?
Let me know by my email and then we can possibly sort something from there.
Cheers,
Bryce.
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