UKC

I know it's massively pre-emptive and there is absolutely nothing by way of winter conditions in South Wales at the moment, but today the first snows have started falling in the valleys and with sub zero predicted almost every night for the next 2 weeks, the local water features forming might not be as far off as it feels.

To get us all in the mood for what South Wales has (surprisingly) to offer when it comes to winter, here's a reminder of the blog I started last year to keep track of winter conditions.

It was great having multiple emails most days with updates on conditions, reports, and photos so I'm hoping for something of the same this year, and if nothing more, it's fun to look through last years posts and get excited.

www.southwaleswinter.blogspot.com

... and a handy quick guide for all:

http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php/Winter_Climbs

In reply to ERU: What's the earliest or most reliable venue? Torpantau?

In reply to iksander:

How long is a piece of string? It all depends on temps, winds, weather, etc ... For the coming dump of snow there won't really be anything going at first but Pen-y-Fan might be climbable and have frozen turf if your lucky!

Craig-Y-Llyn often comes into condition first too:
http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php/Craig-Y-Llyn

In reply to tipsy:

Good idea Ryan.

Looking at the forecast, by the end of next week and hopefully next weekend I wouldn't be surprised if RAC Corner, Torpantau, Craig y Llyn, and the NE Face of Pen y Fan are all in condition.

In reply to tipsy:

Nice one for the blog.

I was up B B's this morn just as the snow started falling. The turf on the way up is semi frozen and the faces of PYF and C D all look good, far of climbable, with much better freezing of the tuff around 850mtrs.

Conditions on the paths are treacherous, snow was only 1-5cm but underneath that it was bad. I should have taken the crampons and wish i did.

Slight deviation but needs to be mentioned. As i was on the way back to the car, Mountain rescue were racing up the hill on a call, apparently someone had broken their leg.

Take care out their, ive got a feeling they're going to a bit busy over the next few days.

Darren.

In reply to tipsy:

Well by those that the presume they know about weather, this cold snap will be all we see of any potential winter climbing down here this year which may be complete bollox, but we have to take what comes are way down south, so keep us all posted as last year was loads of fun..

In reply to tipsy:

I'm heading up PyF tomorrow. Just walking as obviously no climbing will be in, but will have a peek at the build up in the gullys and report back hopefully with some pictures.

With regards to MR today, a plane crashed on PyF. Maybe it had something to do with that?

Usually Torpantau is the first to come in as I believe it's the highest, but RAC follows shortly after and Craig-Y-Llyn seems to take a little longer. Going west Virgin Falls needs a good couple weeks as does Joes Waterfall.

Generally Torpantau builds after about a week of sub zero temps.

In reply to tipsy: Hi, have you heard anything about the new South Wales winter climbs guidebook? I vaguely remember hearing something was in preparation.

Francois

In reply to francois:

I know it was in the pipeline last year, hasn't been published in time for this year as far as I'm aware.

In reply to tipsy: too bad, back to the old guidebook then.

I'll be heading up onto Cadair Fawr to do some training tomorrow, we'll "inspect" RAC corner (any my culvert route) at some point... probably around lunch time

In reply to petersheppard: Not a chance RAC will be in yet. If it is I'll give you my rebels

There is indeed a new guide in production. The plan was to get it ready for 2011 but we are having issues with modern phtotos of crags. I've got thousands of older ones from the 80's tho.

I'm dead keen to get ALL of your South Wales Winter Climbing photos. I can bring my laptop to you to get entire folders if needed. I envisage the new guide to be featuring loads of photo topos and information accessible in the easiest to read format. This can only be possible if we get the photos in and it's not like I can go 'pop out' and take photos when I want!
Winter rarely comes and getting good photos can only be completed as a team. Let's sort a decent winter guide for the next cold snap and be more organised when choosing here to climb. I'm off out the door now!

Ladies and Gentlemen - give us your photos!

In reply to ERU:
I've got some and taking some more next few days but the file size too big to email. JPEG 6-9 MB each and RAW 20-25MB each. Have you got an FTP site?

In reply to ERU: drop me a pm and we can organise collating all the material and info on my blog from last year with what you have if you like.

Also just put a conditions report up from pen y fan today.

In reply to tipsy: With regards to MR today, a plane crashed on PyF. Maybe it had something to do with that?

Yes and No...the guy who crashed the plane got himself down to Pont yr Daf car parc. MRTeams from Central and Brecon regions were racing to an elderly man with mid shaft tib /fib fracture. He had wandered from the path in the saddle between CD and PYF, slipped and broke his leg. He was spilinted and treated for Hypothermia and heli lifted from the saddle by Sea King Rescue 169 from RAF Valley. Conditions were indeed tough for those who responded, with one team member slipping and knocking himself out. He was bundled into the same Helo and treated for concusion. The Helo was unable to land at Prince Charles Merthyr and Heath Cardiff due to bad weather and eventually went to Swansea.

Take Care

In reply to tipsy:

Went out walking on Cadair Fawr as planned. Just about enough snow in a couple of places to demonstrate how to arrest, but it was all loose powder snow, so was bunching up under you rather than being able to get a good slide going.

Dropped past RAC on the way back. The roadside culvert route is not in yet, but its getting there. Mid afternoon temp was reading -2 on the car. A fair amount of ice around, but still a lot of water. Give it 2 days, I reckon.

Did see a pair of climbers at the bottom of the last pitch of the full stream route though, which does look to be in, and then spotted them by the style on the bottom fence as we were driving back past.

In reply to petersheppard:
Anyone been past Craig Y Llyn??
Cheers!
Mark

In reply to petersheppard:

Hi Pete,

Would you mind if I post that report up on the blog. Must say I'm surprised RAC is forming already with the amount of running water round about the lower slopes of PyF but it sounds promising. Hopefully I'll get out to Torpantau to check it out on thursday day if I can find transport and screws.

I'd be even more suprised, however, if Craig y Llyn is formed. It takes a little longer than RAC usually.

In reply to k2hvs: Gary drove past today
He said that iron claws is just in. maybe ok to top rope
but to thin to lead

In reply to tipsy:

Yeah, that's fine.

RAC has the advantage of being in a northeast-facing ice trap. It doesn't see the sun for a few months a year, due to the PyF massif blocking the morning light, and the spur opposite Storey Arms blocking the afternoon!

I'll have to dig out the photos from Jan '09 showing the distinctive frost line showing where the sun didn't get to!

In reply to nat: Hi mucker!! Did he mention Weeping Wall or Central. They usually form first. Hang on why I am typing this. I'll phone you now

In reply to tipsy:

Minus 14 in Sennybridge overnight!! A few more nights of that and the lot will be in!

In reply to stevez: that's quite exciting. I'm gonna have to take a day of work and go for a look next week!

In reply to stevez:

Looking across to the elsh mountains this morning -8 and the hills were glistening white in mid wales. With these low night and DAY temperatures any seapage lines will form soon. A lovely start to the day

In reply to petersheppard:

Was up at RAC yesterday, not climbable, still far too much running water. The top section of the last pitch has frozen over nicely, and the bottom of the last ptich it starting to come together. Was about -3 up there at around 2pm. Practised v-threads on a flatish bit of ice rather than actual climbing. We left the hanging stuff how it was to give it a better chance of forming. I think about 2 days, unless it was particularly cold last night. I might be heading back up there later to take a look on how its looking and will report back tomorrow.

Peter that would have been me and my stepdad you saw.

In reply to ERU:

That online guidebook - is RAC corner described in there under a different name? Searching for "rac" reveals a few "crack" and "track" references, plus the photo caption, so I'm guessing it has another name.....

It's called Craig y Fro I think

In reply to AJM:

Its not in the SWMC guidebook wiki.

I created the "crag" on here as "Craig y Fro" when putting the culvert route in during Jan '09, and the streams have been added to that.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=9821

"Main stream (?)" could probably do with being named.

In reply to petersheppard:
-8 at Storey Arms car parc this morning. No snow consolidation but good frozen turf. saw two guys heading for left hand gulley, hope u had a good day. Did the pyf to corn du traverse and finished up the exit cracks onto corn du. Cracking day out.

In reply to JoshOvki:

The top pitch on RAC was thin and chandeliered today with water running behind. Most of this would be stripped if climbed and will probably need a couple of days. The rest of the stream goes if you are sensible about the line.

In reply to gareth r:

Yep, bottom would go but i think it would shatter a fair bit. Went up there this evening, if conditions stay the same it should in on Wednesday or Thursday. We followed your foot steps down I belive.

I'm sure I remember putting it on there, so should be on there somewhere.

I've sent you an email shunty!

Did you send me an email from a Cardiff Uni address back in Feb 2010? My laptop died and I lost a few contacts? You were offering a good topo of PYF I think?
Anyhow thank you for your offer. I’d like to include your blog if you are thinking of a way to keep it updated over the next few years? A better idea might be to do the same thing on the SWMC Wiki site and give you access to edit it as you wish? The more people adding the more updated it will become. I don’t want to tread on your toes tho? Just an idea?

As for myself I’ve not been out today but was out all weekend and getting stuff done. I quickly stopped at RAC and it wasn’t in both days. Someone was trying to get going on the top icefall but kept retreating … hope they didn’t knock it down. Sat was good for frozen turf. We climbed at Cwmyoy on Sunday by arriving very early in the morning. Things were dangerous to be on by 1:00pm tho, next weekend should have a good build up here! I’m off to N.Wales tho :P

In reply to ERU:
200mm of snow forecasted for the Beacons and Black Mountains Tuesday / Wednesday. That should stick around for a bit at least.

In reply to Jones:

it's bound to stick around for quite a few days at the least, because the ground is already very cold. I walked over Corn Du and Pen y Fan on Sunday, and although it was fine and sunny it was still very, very cold, way below freezing, with everything frozen solid. We also walked past the light aircraft (upside down) that crashed on the side of Corn Du on Thursday in a blizzard - he was very lucky indeed to walk away with minor bruises, because he was very near the edge of the escarpment. Amazingly I think the strong wind saved him, in that he was clearly headed straight into it, so that his ground speed was probably quite slow.

In reply to tipsy:

HELP!!

Will anything be in on wednesday, I am traveling up from cornwall for some snow and ice.

Any pointers as to where to head would be great

cheers

James

In reply to rockjedi12345:

Ice falls will be your only safe (and probably very good) bet at the moment, as everything is frozen solid, and it's going to get even colder. There's a thin layer (c.2 inches) of very dry powdery snow on the Brecons, and the forecast is for another huge dump between about tonight and Weds. night, so surely any thought of gully climbing e.g in the Brecons, is ridiculous for the next few days.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Thank you for your help any suggestions on routes?

In reply to rockjedi12345:

Sorry, I'm completely out of touch with S Wales climbing, and have been for over 35 years! I have about five editions of the S.E.Wales climbing guide book, and the last one that makes any mention of winter climbing – unless I'm having a very blind senior moment – is Clive Horsfield's 1973 edition, with a short two and half page piece by Ginger Phill. So can't help!

In reply to rockjedi12345:

PS. The only winter route I ever did in south Wales was on Craig Cerrig Gleisaid (in my log book described as 'central right-hand gully' - actually quite good, three pitches at about Grade II, but quite serious ... very poor belays. I saw that crag on Sunday, in very deep shadow, looking very inhospitable. I suppose you could just about get up it on very hard frozen turf with modern ice gear.

In reply to rockjedi12345:

There's a very threadbare description I've found on the SWMC web site, but it's a bit better (not much!) than that earlier guidebook:

http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php/Winter_Climbs

SAT 28th. In reply to tipsy: We thrashed up an easy gully at Craig Carig Glasiad just north of Story arms, the veg was well frozen but would be better if we had a little more snow. Some melt a freeze is needed to bring this crag into best climbable nic. We drove past Craig Y Llyn on the way home and this looked to be more promising.
SUN 29th. We did a mixed line up the central depression at The Darren above Cwmyoy.We had an early start to avoid the sun which hits the crag by lunch time. It was 1V. We absailed down Son of Koflack which was forming nicly although the afternoon sun is a killer. The most left hand gully will be in by next wkend if nights stay cold.

In reply to tipsy:

A few pics i took on 29th Nov.

http://picasaweb.google.com/100407921188764969667/RACCornerBreconBeacons?au...

Darren.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I was up there between 12 noon and 3pm on sunday, and didn't see the plane.... where was it ?

The path was very glassy in places, more from millions of foot falls than from freezing conditions I think, but the wind chill was bitter ! My specs froze up at one point !!

I carried my crampons and axe up and back as conditions weren't quite severe enough to break them out !! Saw lots of people doing the same. Optimists all of us eh ?

In reply to paul walters:

I was up there at exactly the same time. We spotted the plane from the top of Corn Du, so once we'd gone up Pen y Fan we returned via the path that runs round the south side of Corn Du. The wreck is on the edge of the escarpment that runs SSW from the summit of Corn Du, about half a mile from the summit, and a couple of hundred yards south of the path that reaches the road about half a mile SE of Storey Arms. I'll upload some pictures of it, once I've downloaded them from Freda's camera.

Yes, the path was very slippery, particularly the descent path I've just mentioned and Mike put on his crampons. Freda and I managed with just our walking sticks and ordinary boots.

Yes, bitterly cold, but a superb day.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Gordon. So the wreckage is just West of the area marked 'Craig y Byllfa' on the os map. Only reason i ask is that im up there tomorrow and wouldn't mind taking a look. I was on the top yesterday afternoon but the cloud was down so couldn't see a thing.

Cheers,

Darren.

In reply to tipsy: So does anyone reckon the RAC corner is worth a try tomorrow? Or too early still?

Thanks

In reply to Darren09:
>> So the wreckage is just West of the area marked 'Craig y Byllfa' on the os map. Only reason i ask is that im up there tomorrow and wouldn't mind taking a look. I was on the top yesterday afternoon but the cloud was down so couldn't see a thing.

Link to it here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11849888

somewhere called windy ridge according to that repor

In reply to tipsy: anyone know the condition of torpantau falls?

In reply to Tom Hutton: Looking at the photo up above, it looks okay. I will confirm inthe morning as I am heading up there tonight.

Ben

In reply to Darren09:

I only have a one-inch ordnance map dating from the late 60s, but it's about a 1/3 mile north of the writing 'Craig y Byllfa', about a couple of hundred yards due south of Bwlch Duwynt. It's more or less exactly at a spot height marked on my map as 2704, so presumably that's 824m on yours?

In reply to Gaz Lord :
Torpantau falls. I was up ther today. Conditions are very good. It is formed all the way to the bottom. So good we climbed it Twice. There is twice as much Ice as when I climbed it on 23 Dec last year and its still Nov.
Just get out and climbe it, any questions just poste.

In reply to tipsy: Climbed RAC corner this morning with a friend, we started at around 6.30am and left at 8am, little warmer today but great conditions. Hoping to get back out tomorrow morning.

In reply to tipsy: So are PenyFan N.Face routes pretty safe? I am thinking of a solo trip on Sunday. I see from the topo there are a few Grade1's.

Are they likely to be pretty frozen up?

In reply to stevev: do you need a partner?

In reply to Mike Mitchell:

Mike, what was the road from Merthyr to the car park like?

In reply to stevev:

Steve.

Did far right gully (I) today.

http://picasaweb.google.com/100407921188764969667/PenYFan#

Good from about half way up. Very good at the top. Bottom was pretty poor though.

There are a load (for S Wales) of others around II/III on PYF. Theres a topo a bit further up this post.

Darren.

In reply to stevez:
The road is OK they have gritted it.

In reply to tipsy: Out on Darren this morning. A bit hairy as screws constantly plated so some inventive pro and a mate with a steady head helped. A few more cold days or even a week will definately help. We managed 2 routes both around the iv mark.

In reply to Darren09:

Looks good!

I made it to the top of Torpantau (compass was handy!) and it looked well frozen. There was no way anything was going to make me go to the bottom and look from there though, which is lucky or I'd probably still be walking back (headtorch was also handy). I couldn't see much further than 10m after getting over Fan Y Big anyway. Knee-deep snow where the wind has blown it, and 1cm of ice covering all the bare rocks on the paths.

Stefan

In reply to Mike Mitchell:
Can you give me a grid ref for the falls please?

In reply to Jones:

SO053192. The one on the logbooks page is for the top!

In reply to RedFox:
Hi Stefan.

You made it to Torpantau then? I did think about you when i got back to the car and saw yours (getting a bit dark). Headtorch was a good idea!

Was a good day!

Let me know if you want to get out again.

Cheers,

Darren.

In reply to tipsy:

Think about heading up tomorrow. What are the roads like at the moment?

Climbed at RAC Corner last night. Not masses of ice but enough to play. The road (A470) was totally clear. There are a few photos in my gallery(of the climbing not the road!):

http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=17755&nstart=0

In reply to tipsy:

Tried to take a peek at Torpantau this morning, but were thwarted by a combination of lack of time and failure to consult the correct grid reference. Annoyed...

In terms of the roads, we could only get as far as the Pont Cwmyfedwen car park in Taf Fechan Forest, and walked in from there. Without a 4x4 the road to the upper car park is almost impassable because of lack of grit.

The lower falls on the Nant Bwrefwr had partially formed, and another party informed us that this was a good sign for the falls, but by then it was too late.

Hopefully another time soon...

Will put some photos on the blog of the lower falls for interest.

In reply to wadh1720: Anybody climbed at Craig Y Llyn or Blaen Cwm this week? Has Grid Iron / Douglas Gap in enough to lead?
Cheers
Mark

I was at Cwmyoy today:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=11443

I was also climbing there Sunday and conditions have improved greatly. If the freeze/thaw keeps going this is the place to be on the weekend!


PS: Don't forget to send all climbing and crag photos to me for the guidebook!

Torpantau was indeed in good condition this morning. I think the grid reference you had was for the car park!!! This lower little fall on the Nant Bwrefwr never seems to form, but any ice on it is usually a good sign for the torpantau fall.
We then went back round to RAC corner. It was OK but much thinner. Hope you can get another shot at Torpantau.

In reply to Deanjones:

Cheers. Well done for getting on it!

In reply to wadh1720:

If anyone's interested in getting onto Torpantau/RAC corner tomorrow can they let me know? I'm based between Chepstow and Newport and am seriously keen to do it... just lacking a partner.

In reply to tipsy:
Does anyone Know the latest on Craig y Llyn or the Darren near Cwmyoy?
thanks
Dave

In reply to Caspar: I'm planning to head over there with my day off tomorrow if you're interested. I'm based in the Forest, so not too far away. Text 07766 400502 if you're interested. Cheers,

Tim

In reply to Dave Bingham:

See above comments from this morning...

In reply to tipsy:

Looking for a partner for this weekend for either Torpantau, Craig y Llyn, or Cwmyoy.

Lead III and happy seconding IV.

Either early Saturday morning or Sunday morning would suit me best.

In reply to stevez:

I was at RAC last night, roads were clear, tempeature had increased so that it was warmer there than in Malvern. There was plenty of water running behind the ice, and the stream feeding in at the top was flowing freely. We did climb but the higher up we were the thinner the ice was. Hopefully it froze again later.

In reply to stevez:
Hi SteveZ, I'm probably looking for a partner 0796 796 7139. We should probably go off list to discuss further.

In reply to tipsy: Hi there, any routes on the north face in? Thanks in advance.

In reply to Bungle: Hi I'm looking for partner for the weekend. Either day is fine for me. Looking to climb grades III/IV or will second harder.

In reply to Colin Knowles:

Colin, I'll give you a call later if that's ok.

Thanks,

Steve

In reply to stevez: hi can anyone tell me the Grid reference for torpantau
cheers

In reply to willbris3:

If it's well formed you can start climbing at SO 051192.

In reply to RedFox: what's the best approach to the base? From the Talybont reservoir? I'm a bit worried about the drive in the area as I'm not sure it's gritted so I thought it might be better from the W side.

In reply to stevez:
I'm stuffed saturday, but can do sunday if no other offers.
Nig

In reply to francois:

I walked from Storey Arms in about 3.5 hours, but that was mostly because I had nothing better to be doing...

Someone said in this thread that they managed to get to the carpark at Pont Cwmyfedwen/Birch Hall (from Merthyr), so I'd be tempted to try that (and then walk up the forestry road to the main road, then on to Blaen y Glyn carpark. For extra speed, now that you're nice and warm, don't follow the path up the steep hill, go through the carpark, up the forestry road, left at the first path you come to, over the stile, and straight up the valley to the bottom of the falls.

Even if you can't get to the carpark, the walk from wherever you decide to stop will surely be faster than going over the Beacons!

In reply to RedFox:

Another one for Torpantau, if the top end of the roads are nasty, park at Dolygaer, somewhere around SO054143 (the furtherst up the road you can get without causing an obstruction - which may be the marked car parking if you're unlucky. Either the mountain railway track (not actively used that far north) or the forest track are a flat trudge straight up to the Torpantau Tunnel entrance, then its only a short walk up the top car park.

To gain the forest track from the road at Dolygaer, go under the railway bridge, then you'll see a gate on your immediate left. Go through this and up the obvious path parallel with the railway; keep on that path and you'll eventually come out on the corner of the forest track. Don't be tempted by the large footbridge over the railway in the grounds of the Scout centre (the old station building), it will lead you into a patch of brambles (And it's private property anyway)

In reply to petersheppard:

Can you not get as far as the river bridge just below the car park if you come up from Talybont?

In reply to petersheppard:

I knew there must be a way onto that track from Dolygaer, cheers! I haven't been beyond the railway bridge since I had to sweep that entire road free of leaves for my "work experience"...

In reply to RedFox:

Torpantau and RAC were goo today. A little brittle, but otherwise good. Lots of traffic on Torpantau - not so much on RAC.

We parked in the top carpark (beware the entrance) and walked onto the top before downclimbing the saddle to the right of the falls. I saw beware the entrance because the compressed snow and poor visibility makes for bad times. I was the last out of the carpark, in the dark, and ended up nose down in the ditch. It's a long way for help. Trust me. And there's no signal.

In reply to tipsy:

Snow Update,

Its bucketing it down in the Beacons now. 3 inches fallen in the last hr. With the predicted freeze early Sat morn it should be a bit dicy 1st thing.

Cheers,

Darren.

In reply to shunty:

Nig, if you're still looking for a partner for tomorrow I'm now free, so drop me a txt on 07850 155166.

Steve

In reply to stevez:

Steve,

I take it you're still going out tomorrow. Did Far Right Gully I (again!) and Central Rib II today.
The overnight rain/snow and warmer weather put a lot more snow in the gully and hardened things up on the rib. Conditions best they have been since it all started last Friday. Made the 3rd go this week really enjoyable.

If you only get one in then go for the Rib. Real nice exposure.

Just a shame the rain came in on the way back to the car (got soaked).

Let me know if you want to get out next week.

Darren.

In reply to Darren09:

Sounds good. Will definitely do Central Rib tomorrow if there's no one around to do something like Torpantau or Iron Claw.

The overnight freeze following today's partial thaw should see things in excellent condition.

In reply to tipsy: Could not access Torpantau by car this morning (alot of pushing the car)but went to RAC corner and climbed at 1st light, was in acceptable nick.

In reply to tipsy: Was at Torpantau and RAC today - Torpantau in great nick if a little slim on the far righthand side of the falls. Still room for plenty of lines. RAC was a bit wet by the time we got there - the top pitch is thin and complete but delicate - take care. On the way back we swung past the darren which has some lines which look completeish from the road but it was rather warm and wet there... depends on the weather tomorrow... Should be back on the Fan tomorrow...

In reply to mike kann:
2 climbers have fallen on Torpantau this evening. Full area Mountain Rescue call out went out at 16:30 just as the light was fading. RAF Rescue Helo 169 was called and came over from RAF Chivenor and winched the guys on board. They have been transported to A&E in Cardiff.
No reports of injuries as yet.
Stay safe out there guys.
Jones

In reply to Jones: Oh crap! Hope they are OK!

In reply to Jones:

Sad to hear so early in the season, hope the guys are safe.

In reply to tipsy:

Sad to hear about the guys at Torpantau Falls. Hope they're ok.

I was up on Pen-y-Fan today (with Darren09) and stuff was just about in nick. There had been a few inches of snow overnight, which hasn't stuck at all, it was generally very damp and slushy. Still there were some decent small ice steps and the turf was frozen. Probably not that great now the temps are rising tho. If you get there early tomorrow morning you might be ok.

In reply to mattrm: bit mor einfo on the accident
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2010/12/04/injured-ice-climbers-airlifted-...

In reply to Jones:

Any news on the climbers injuries. I left Torpantau at about 2.00pm, must have seen them. Hope things art to bad. Send regards to all consernd.

In reply to Mike Mitchell:

Got out early today and was at the base of Central Rib on PYF by 8am. Snow is still very powerdy and unconsolidated but the turf gives a reassuring thud. All the lines are climatic although Central Gully looked very thin in places.

Then went to RAC Corner and climbed Main Stream with 'John the Dentist' (sorry John I forgot your UKC name!). Bottom pitch was in good nick, but the final top pitch had quite a lot of running water behind it.

We definitely need a bit of a thaw and a refreeze for things to be perfect but to have these conditions at the start of December is just amazing.

In reply to Mike Mitchell:
Sorry guys don't have the names of the people involved but here are the details I do know:
Climber fell 6m onto shelf and then 12m onto rock, landing very heavily on his back. He lost all feeling in his legs and was tended to by the climbers on site who I'm told were all airlifted away. Sounds like a bad back injury, but is all i know at the moment.
Jones

In reply to tipsy: Was a good day's training.Thanks for the company Steve.Went back to solo the route and it was very hollow at the top second time!!
Then spent two hours training on the steep wall just by the car park .My arms were well cooked.
News from Craig y Llyn...no major routes in condition .Need a big freeze yet!
See you out next weekend!!

In reply to Jones the teeth:
Re Craig y Llyn
Ben Tiffin led Creeping Wall III 4 (in the conditions) and Lost and Weeping II/III yesterday - I think! 198X Guide Book writer (sorry, don't know his name) and friends were seen doing Weeping Wall IV. Yes, it was a bit melty, but still good fun (when seconding!). Ellen

In reply to Jones the teeth:

When is a major route a major route?

Had a very enjoyable day on Craig Y Llyn today, climbing two pleasant routes on good ice and nicely frozen turf, with excellent views and weather.

It would be very good if someone could put a topo online of Craig Y Llyn's lines. I've really no idea what it was we climbed except someone said the second route was Central Icefall.

In reply to tipsy: For the record. Saturday 4th Cwm Lluest was in pretty good shape despite the thaw. The lower Virgin Fall is not complete but once skirted around the rest has good ice. Bit more freeze and it'll be even better.

In reply to Jones: Hi Jones, Matt here. I spoke with the hospital this morning and was told that the casualty was ok. Injuries described as 'a broken bone in the back, and the pelvis broken in 2 places'.

Comment from the nurse was that 'he's a lucky lad'.

In reply to Colin Knowles: Hi, I´m not sure if you´re one of the guys from Bristol that we met at Craig y Llyn (sounds like you are) but if so, thanks for hammering our peg back in again!
I totally agree with you that we need a good topo line of the crag.
We met another group of climbers later on who said there is a new winter guide in the pipeline for next year. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

In reply to Jones the teeth:
Climbed at Craig Y Llyn Sunday morning. Did Douglas Gap and Iron Claws.
Douglas Gap had quite a bit of water running over the top and got a bit wet. Could do with a big freeze and some more ice on it.
Iron Claws was just about complete and quite thin in places and made for some exciting and delicate climbing. A great climb but definately needs a week to build up more ice.
There were a few teams climbing in the Evil Eye and Central areas. Ice seems to have formed more substantially here and in better condition. Probably a better choice of climbing venue at the moment.
Hope this helps and happy climbing!

In reply to k2hvs:
Douglas Gap was a bit wet and brittle but OK climbing yesterday. We did central icefall as well. Creeping Wall seemed to be in but a bit thin for decent gear. Iron Claws looked very thin with almost more rock than ice - I think it gets a bit of sun in the morning so could take a few days to form properly.

In reply to tipsy: climbed at Torpantau yesterday and the top of the main pitch is a bit sketchy. There's a big chunk of ice that does not seem very attached to the face (just above an obvious breakline). Apart from that it was fine if a bit wet.

In reply to tipsy: Early days to plan for the weekend but looks like warmer temps.

Angel falls in Bleancwm, Rhondda is a free running waterfall but the one adjacent to it is in. Complete apart from the very bottom section which hardly ever gets done. Will need a possible ab in to get on it but it looked ok.
Soloed a route on Pen Pych's Northern aspect which is a gully route that I don't think has been done before in Winter. Grade I and quite an enjoyable route of you only have a couple of hours. Could do with another snowfall and freeze to really get it in nick, but doable as is.

South Wales Winter Climbing Guidebook info on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1

In reply to ERU:

Craig y Llyn tomorrow anyone? I'd be coming from between Newport and Chepstow. Also, does anyone have up to date know-how on what it's looking like?

In reply to tipsy: two south Wales threads, Aaghh

In reply to francois:
Hi,
Did you drive in from the Talybont side? If so how was the road as far as Pont Blaen y glyn (at the bottom of the hill)? On sunday I drove as far as Pont Cwmyfedwen on a recce and that was fine with care. It sounds if the longest pitch was Ok from what you've said.

thanks
Dave

In reply to tipsy: It's a day late but on Sunday we climbed Pen Y Fan via the Central Gully up to the large bowl below the headwall. It was very thin on the hard sections, probably III 4. We traversed off left once we got to the bowl via a fantastic airy traverse to the left hand rib and then up to the summit ridge. It is doable, but care is required...

RAC Corner climbed and back in time for work - long may the conditions last!! Still quite a bit of water running but easily climable all the way to the top.

How's the snow cover looking? Worth bringing cross-country stuff?

In reply to edg: At that level there is not nearly enough snow. Couldn't comment about higher up

In reply to Dave Bingham: Dave, we went as far as Dol-y-Gaer and parked just before the road goes to the other side of the reservoir. Some people drove further in 2 wheel drives, but I thought it would be a bit sketchy. As I said, one worrying big lump of ice on the pitch, so make sure you belay well to the side.

In reply to tipsy:

Checked the gullies this morn on PYF. All look ok, still got snow cover. Crusty on the surface out of the morning sun but still really powdery underneath.

The ribs look a bit thin will all the traffic but should be ok if the temp stays low.

Did Near Left Gully, absolute PANTS! Don't do it FRG much better.

Darren.

I've just updated the SWMC Winter Wiki with a bit more info to help people get about to the crags:
http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php/Winter_Climbs

In reply to tipsy:

Some pics of Pen Y Fan, North East Face.

http://picasaweb.google.com/100407921188764969667/PYF071210?authkey=Gv1sRgC...

The top pitches of Virgin Falls were in good nick this morning. The bottom pitch looked like it should go but we bypassed it to avoid getting wet.

We checked out Craig Y llyn from the road as we passed and I reckon there were in the region of 6 lines that should go if you're quick.

In reply to timjones:
There are 2 routes in poor nick in Llanbradach quarry. I climbed the left hand grade 3 route Tuesday evening (ends with the name 'astra'). The right hand grade 4 looked in slightly better nick and quality. I wouldnt recommend going out of your way to climb these unless you are desparate for the tick and live close - I was
Happy climbing!
Mark

How odd. I was there Tuesday morning and after 6pm. Must have missed you by minutes. The route is called 'Per Ardva Ad Astra - Gd3' ... 35m. A well protected route. Start at a steep little wall 5m right of the previous climb called the 'The Gathering Gloom'. It climbs the wall and steep steps above passing a number of trees en route. G Lewis; H Griffiths 03/Mar/1986. I found the final top bit a bit interesting!

The route on the far left of this area, i.e. to the left of 'Per Ardva Ad Astra' is called 'The Gathering Gloom - Gd3' It was led last night by a friend but had to avoid the mid part, via to detour left, due to poor ice/veg.

The obvious waterfall? This was completely melted/running when I looked. As was the groove 'Dear Alison - Gd4' just to it's right. Hope it gets cold again tho!

Ditto - Me too

I've added all the winter routes to the SWMC Wiki. Enjoy.

I am planning a trip to Brecon area on the weekend of 11+12 Dec.
I am going to take the A470 from Cardiff all the way up.
It's a double carriageway up to Merthyr Tydfil and then narrows to one lane.
Does anyone know of the state of this road from Merthyr Tydfil to the Brecons, snow wise?
Lots of black ice, lost of snow, both or none?
Help is much appreciated appreciated.
Thanks
Nat

FWA Ascent: Bushwacked Grade II Mixed 60m 2 pitches.
Above Bwlfa Farm, Gelli. Rhondda
GR to follow (when i can find my map)
Seriously not worth the trip but its within view from my house so I climbed it.
Lead: R. Jones - 2nd: P. Spearing 08-12-10
Start on ledge at foot of crag four buttresses from the right, and climb steeply through groove for 4m and onto easier ground to foot of crags above. Belay and climb ramp to steep poor climbing on frozen turf to top.

In reply to Nats:
Nat, all roads are clear with no problem. the A470 is a major trunk road through wales so this is well gritted as a rule.
J

Thanks guys. Nat

Don't forget to email me with 'all' the details so I can get it added to the wiki and new guide. Cheers.

In reply to Nats: If you put up a report after your trip that would be great as i am going there for the 13th.
Have fun!
ps conditions, check this out-view from Storey Arms
http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latest

In reply to francois:

Francois, thanks for the advice. Infact myself and Terry Delbridge did the climb today(Wednesday) and drove to the bottom car park approaching from Talybont. Took only 20 mins to walk up the road to the top car park and the road from Talybont was good.
We did indeed belay well to the side given your advice and just as well as I found the pull over onto the ledge very awkward and no placement possible on it to speak of!
Overall the ice elsewhere was in good condition with only a few brittle spots. We had a great day's climbing
As Terry came up on the next and final pitch a Wessex rescue helicoptor hovered in very close for several minutes and only moved away after I stripped the belay. For a moment I was wondering whether he was waiting
for the rope to be cleared way before winching down, he was so close. We walked up the streambed and he slowly flew away.
Dave

In reply to tipsy: Hi, has anyone made the journey up the road from Brecon to Cwm Gwdi? Is is drivable? Thanks in advance

In case anyone is interested:
The falls at Bleancwm in the Rhondda are well in.
If I had screws i'd be up there myself.
If anyone is heading up then please give me a shout. I'd like to photograph the climbs being done.

In reply to Jones:
Hi. Just wondering if anyone has climbed or seen first hand any of the routes at Blaenrhondda. I'm especially looking to do Plan for Coal if it is in. Also, wondering if anyone knows if the inital grade iv pitch on Virgin Falls in Bleancwm (Cwm Lluest)is good enough to lead yet? Also, any news on conditions at the Darren. My mate climbed Weeping Wall at Craig Y Llyn this morning and said it was in good nick. The ice was really plastic and held the axe and took screws well.
Happy climbing! Cheers!
Mark

In reply to k2hvs:

Yesterday the grade IV pitch at Virgin Falls looked OK on the right for the brave with good waterproofs. Plan for Coal looked close but not quite close enough to my eye and what I think was probably Ivor The Engine looked like it should have gone which may mean that the stuff higher up the same streams is in.

In reply to tipsy:

Has anyone been on the Pen-y-Fan N E face today? If so what are conditions like?

Cheers,

Darren.

In reply to Darren09:

Did Pen y Fan and Corn Due on Tuesday, there ok but a lot of powder. Allso did RAC Corner on the way home and its was in good condition.
Its getting wormer ??
Mike

In reply to tipsy:

How are things in the beacons for some winter walking?
I was thinking about getting down there for a couple of days for WML logbook stuffing on Monday and Tuesday in advance of my scotland trip over christmas? I would like to do Pen y Fan and the neighbouring peaks and something else in the area if possible.
Is there enough snow around to qualify as a winter QMD?
I know there has been plenty of snow around but i have been out of the country so i am not sure just how much of it is on the beacons and south wales.
Cheers!

In reply to tipsy:

Afternoon folks

Has anyone got an update of Pen y Fan NE face, RAC corner ,Torpantau or Craig Y Llyn conditions, who has been in the last 24 hours, as the temperature has risen a good few notches? Any info appreciated!

I was having a look at this late yesterday - The 60m 'Marquess of Bute's Appendix'. One of the many new crags to be included in the new South Wales Winter Guide:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7432398&l=b98ac3e7f8&id=58678...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7431772&l=1ffd7e9d06&id=58678...

Things are defrosting fast here atm; but there might be routes to have a go at, with very plasticy ice to contend with. Turf has also defrosted fast, so you will be doing lots of veg damage by climbing. I'd suggest you find defrosting ice that is low in the grade or wait until the next freeze that is predicted.

In reply to ERU:

Which crag are those photos from?

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

Hi we were there today Friday with huge temperatures but the ice on Torpantau is thick and surviving on the left hand side. Skipped the very bottom and ran it out as one 50m pitch. As others have said, the snag is the finishing moves, where you move up a freestanding pillar (which is sound in itself) but there is nothing to hook onto from the top. So having checked it out we did a frozen turf finish on the left. If it freezes tonight it should still be worth the walk on Saturday.

In reply to Colin Knowles:

I found the easiest thing was just to down tools and use my hands. There's quite a gap between the ice and the rock - it's like hanging on jugs... just big icy ones! Or hook your axes in these gaps and just grab hold of the heads?

How is the weather set for next week? it looks to be getting a wee bit warmer then cold again, will any of the routes survive until it does? Torpantau sounds like its getting sketchy at the start and finish. How are the other lines fairing?

In reply to tipsy: Unfortunatly Torpantau has now pretty much gone. I was there on Saturday hoping for a look and theres a full blown waterfall again.Should come back soon though

In reply to tipsy:

Pics taken today of the conditions on the Beacons/RAC corner/crashed plane.

http://picasaweb.google.com/100407921188764969667/121210Beacons?authkey=Gv1...

Darren.

In reply to Darren09: doesn't look to be much left Is the ice pretty rotten there now?

Never made it to Wales on the weekend, there was no snow by Friday...went PG instead.
there will be snow again soon enough...

In reply to tipsy: If the roads remain clear I think there's every possibility of getting on ice esp after the freeze from Thursday night onwards
www.xcweather.com is ok for temps

I will probably head out Sunday .Looks like it could be snowing Saturday

In reply to tipsy: Looks like the cold is going to hit Brecon better than N.wales, anyone local able to hint how long before lines start coming back in?

In reply to Hvit ut:

Looking at the forecast temps, I would say beginning of next week at the earliest, that's a bit of a guess though!! Also I haven't been up to the beacons recently so don't know how much it's thawed out.

In reply to DaveR:

My guess is and from earlier posts, is that most have pretty much gone altogether, unless anyone knows otherwise?

Was looking to getting down Wed/Thurs next week. It's looking very cold for Sunday and Monday so I'm hoping it will carry on through the week, though I guess we will still be too early.

In reply to Hvit ut:

Looking at the metoffice forecast for Brecon, it's going to be below freezing the next few days, and down to -9 sunday night. I think wed/thur could be good if it stays like that during the week. If I wasn't injured I'd be heading up in the evening next week.

In reply to DaveR:
South Wales is under 4-6" of Snow this morning. Its still snowing, and the forecasters say it'll be on and off all day.
A470 and A465 have been closed
All Mountain Pass roads are closed.
30mph restriction on the M4 between jct 24 Newport and 43 Pont Abraham.

In reply to Jones: Jones.

Is the 470 closed now? I knew it was blocked at half 7. Did you hear it on the news or something.

Darren.

In reply to Darren09:

It feels like the spell we had 10 days ago where we have a dump of snow followed by freezing temperatures day and night.

This should mean it'll take 4/5 days before the ice routes come into condition such as Torpantau, Craig y Llyn etc. Pen y Fan will be awash with powder on top of frozen turf and if we don't get a thaw and refreeze it won't firm up.

In reply to stevez:

Steve. You're preaching to the converted mate.

Darren.

In reply to tipsy: I am hoping to go out Sunday even if its a hike.Access is only issue!!

In reply to tipsy:

A470 at Storey Arms looks pretty clear to me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/travel/trafficcams/camera4001.shtml

(refreshes every couple of minutes)

Worth bookmarking to check road conditions.

Although some roads will be impassable, they will try to keep this one open - only problem is all the chavs blocking the carparks and roads to go sledging 2 minutes walk away- the peaks / climbs are often empty!

In reply to Darren09:

A465 is open from Abbergavenny all the way through to Swansea way. A470 junction with A465 is the issue snow too deep, until they plough and grit it.

In reply to Darren09: Does that include the A470 between Merthyr and Brecon?

In reply to Hvit ut:
It does now. Traffic Wales reporting it closed. 16.10 Fri

In reply to Hvit ut:

I'd say your pretty much B*ll*x'd if you need to use that road now. It was bad enough earlier.

Darren.

In reply to tipsy:

Anyone know if the A40 is open all the way through past Brecon to Carmarthen? Need to get to see family soon!

In reply to Caralynr:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/southeastwales/
Computer Says: Approach with care

In reply to tipsy: I am probably being a little optimistic here - but was wondering if anything might be in condition tomorrow? The roads look to be a bit of a nightmare in the Brecon area but was thinking maybe Llanbradach quarry. Any info would be much appreciated.

In reply to Santas Little Helper:

Been loads of snow in Cardiff, but the temps aren't very low today. Unless it's much colder in the beacons I'd say tomorrow will be a bit early for anything other than a picturesque winter walk.

In reply to DaveR:
Been in the region today and up untill 3pm it was that cold really. Temps quickly dropped off when the sun went down, but that's not going to be much help. Its going to take a few days before anything is really in.

In reply to Jones: -12 degs in hereford last night; any ice or N Face routes in - did everything get stripped last week;

In reply to Neil Anderson:
I'm out tomorrow to check the NE Face of PYF routes. Probably lots and lots of powder to deal with even more forecast. Going to try and head out early depending on the roads.
Will update tomorrow afternoon.

In reply to Neil Anderson:

No ice remained after last weeks thaw so we are starting from scratch again. I would have thought we need another few days before Craig y Llyn and Torpantau are in, and then probably a bit longer for the Blaencwm routes.

what's the chance of Cwmyoy (Darren) being in? how long does it normally take to come in?

In reply to stevez:
Going to be a very cold night here (Aber, below Tal-y-bont reservoir), if school is closed tomorrow I'm going to take a ride up to Torpantau and see what things are looking like. I agree with you Steve, I'd fully expect it to need a few more days. If anyone is thinking of heading up this week and needs a partner I'd be up for it.

Neil

In reply to tipsy:
Latest from the Beacons.I risked the A470 this morning and arrived at Storey Arms at 9.30 Drove on to see RAC and it looked thin .There were two parties at the base.

I then went up PYF and with the deep powder it was tough going.Nobody had ventured further as the wind was wickedly cold and viz was an issue.I went to Gribyn but there was so much powder on the N face that I took the tourist route.I had thought of the easy gully on Fan Y Big but it would be a hard slog and I was half an hour slower than my usual time. Coming down in powder is a doddle!!
Lots of boarders and telemarkers out.The turf is bullet proof.
Got to car park and decided to check RAC.Couple of guys on it so I went up.It's ok but the lower pitches are thin .The last pitch was in better nick than when I did it two weeks ago!!
The roads were ok but lots of ice early on.
No sign of a thaw cycle but otherwise promising

In reply to Jones the teeth:
v useful update that thnks . . here's hoping the temp rises just enough to stick the Brecon-powder together and clear the roads before refreezeing for some playtime this week - before I eat so many mince p's I'll not be able to do up my boots?

In reply to PeterR: I think were looking at Thursday or Friday until that happens, given the bbc forecast and that potential of even more snow tomorrow.

RAC corner sounds like it may be coming in sooner than others, I guess the lower pitches will fatten up this week... hopefully.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/brecon/brecon_latest_pr...
Look at this before you go up there tomorrow.

In reply to tipsy:

As it has been a couple of days since the last post any update on the ice conditions of Craig Y Llyn, Torpantau or RAC corner what with the baltic conditions we have been having? Also I presume Pen y Fan NE face is all powder snow at the mo?
Any info/update appreciated!

In reply to BALD EAGLE: hopefully heading to RAC corner tomorrow to have a mooch, fingers crossed eh!

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

I would have thought getting to Torpantau car park would be tricky to say the least, and then you need to break trail through waist deep snow to get to the route.

Rhigos mountain road was still closed this morning so no access to the top of Craig y Llyn.

In reply to stevez: do you know how the a470 is for driving between merthyr and the storey arms?

Also anyone have an update on the conditions around craig-y-fro?

In reply to Hvit ut: the driving would be more exciting than the climbing

In reply to Richard Davies: sketchy is it?

hows the routes looking? getting fatter or still thin like the start of the week?

In reply to Hvit ut: ice still thin, be patient, any day now it could be really good

In reply to Hvit ut:

A470 will be fine. It is prioritised as a major trunk route in the same way the M4, A55, and A5 are.

In reply to stevez:

Steve, i wish it was. A470 from the A465 junction wasn't gritted last time around the same as the rest was.

In reply to Darren09:

When it's in, which is the best way to Craig Y Llyn, is it from the north or south ?

Secondly, was talking to someone else regarding climbing here and he wondered whether it was "bandit territory".
How safe is it to park your car at the viewpoint, or other access point for that matter if you can't get all the way there ?

In reply to fred99:
As far as I'm aware climbing at Craig y Llyn is banned!
The area is marked out as a SSSI and should you be caught climbing there you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
We (CBMRT) are no longer allowed to use it as a training venue because of this.

In reply to Jones:
The one I'm referring to is at GR OS 170 913035, and is contained within the SWMC Guidebook which I downloaded/printed from a link much earlier in this thread.

The Access notes only refer to the road being closed due to snow, and NO reference to any restrictions are listed.

Now, I can only think of 3 options;
1) There's some confusion as to a different Craig Y Llyn.
2) You're having me on.
3) The SWMC are being stupid putting these details out and that is where your views regarding "prosecuted to the full extent of the law" should be directed.

In reply to stevez:
Torpantau car park was a step too far for me this morning... Headed up in the Hilux only to find that some prat has ended up stuck sideways across the bridge in a box van and abandoned the vehicle! No note or anything.

In reply to Jones: I was under the impression to be prosecuted under the SSSI legislation you would have to be causing damage to the land and more specifically what makes it a SSSI. If your climbing a frozen waterfall, i cant imagine the SSSI being damaged. I will check tommorow though with Countryside and CCW.

It seems it might be a SSSI:
http://data.nbn.org.uk/datasetInfo/taxonSurvey.jsp?refID=5&surKey=30178...

A quick google suggests "the north facing escarpments in the upland SSSI Craig-y- Llyn provide the ideal conditions for the BAP species Parsley Fern and Fir Club Moss. Whilst some of these rock exposures are protected within the SSSI system, many Inland Rock sites are not afforded such protection. Although the upland sites are isolated and remain relatively undisturbed, such habitat in the lowlands is especially vulnerable from development, recreation and advancing vegetation cover."

I've also found a statement about Llyn Mawr suggesting "the western half of this nature reserve and SSSI lies under the attractive slopes of Craig y Llyn-mawr." which to me suggests that only the lower slopes could be the SSSI area.



Does anyone know when it became a SSSI? I'm sure it never used to be. Is it a recent SSSI? Does anyone know anything? CCW are slow responding to their webform...

In reply to ERU:

First I've heard of a climbing ban at Craig y Llyn, I know you have to have permission from the CCW to climb at Craig Carriag Gleisiad.

In reply to stevez:

Here is an extract from the old guidebook "ACCESS RESTRICTIONS AND PUBLIC RIGHTS OF WAY" that has been reproduced here with th persmission from the previous two authors:


Cwmyoy (The Daren)
The cliff is a site of Special Scientific Interest because of rare plants and wildlife. The land owner has granted permission o climber between 1st December and 28th February, providing the cliff is in good winter climbing condition. Climbing is not permitted at any other time. This arrangement is for a trial period only during the 1996/7 season. It is essential to comply with this restriction in order to secure future access.

Craig Carrig Gleisiad
Craig Carrig Gleisiad is a National Nature Reserve. Permission to climb is essential prior to climbing, this can be obtained from any of the following: The Warden of Storey Arms, telephone Brecon (0874) 730751. In addition, climbing is only allowed in the gullies on this cliff as there are rare and unusual plants on the buttresses that may be damaged by climbers.

The inclusion of a route or access description in this guide does not infer that the land is in public ownership or there is a public right of way.

In reply to tipsy: Assuming Pen Y Fan N face comes into nick over the next couple of days am I likley to run into any major difficulties on far right gully with a single axe? Thanks

In reply to Bismarck:

If you need to ask the question then maybe you shouldn't be doing a grade I gully with just one axe. Personally I've done a number of routes up to II on PyF using just a DMM Cirque. It's all pretty easy ground.

In reply to Bismarck: Bismarck. As mattrm said Far Right is pretty easy. I did it last year with no prev experience of gullies with just one axe. I'm up there tomorrow so ill post and let you know what conditions are like.

Darren.

In reply to Bismarck:

Oh. One other thing. I take it you've got crampons? There are two/three large (ish) ice steps that, can be avoided, will def cause a prob without.

Darren.

After a bit more research I seem to have a definitive answer:

Craig-y-Llyn was originally notified as an SSSI for the two lakes, and is also of interest for the heath vegetation on the slopes above the lakes, which benefits from sheep being excluded. There is no requirement for individual climbers to approach CCW for permission to climb, but the landowner (in this case the Forestry Commission) has an obligation to give notice to CCW before granting permission for activities such as this. However, CCW does have powers to take action on damage by third parties if a problem develops. (... the exact wording of this needs to be checked by a CCW specialist before being published in the winter guidebook).

Generally there isn't a problem regarding a good build up of snow & ice on cliffs, as the plants are dormant or covered in snow/ice. However, concerns arise when conditions are 'lean' - i.e. little snow/ice cover, but frozen turf. In these conditions, ice axes and crampons can possibly do some damage if either, a lot of people climb a particular route, or if there are sensitive species/communities there. To try and inform people about these issues, Barbara Jones has written pieces for the BMC webpages together with the access and conservation officer for Wales.

The ledge communities at Craig-y-Llyn are not a feature for which the SSSI was notified but they certainly do have local botanical interest. The CCW would ask people to avoid climbing when there is little snow or ice (i.e. lean) and only frozen turf. Later in the year, of course, there is also the issue of nesting birds such as Peregrines, covered by separate legislation.

In reply to ERU: Pretty much spot on here. I contacted a few frineds in CCW today who funnily enough had had a call from another member and gave me a pretty good answer which cut and pasted reads.......

Jonathan,

Thanks for your phone call.

These are extracts from the e-mail from our upland specialist, Barbara
Jones.

"Generally there isn't a problem regarding snow & ice climbing on
cliffs, as the plants are dormant or covered in snow/ice. However, the
concerns arise when conditions are lean - i.e. little snow/ice cover,
but frozen turf. In these conditions, ice axes and crampons can
possibly do some damage if either a lot of people climb a particular
route or if there are sensitive species/communities there. To try and
inform people about these issues, I've written pieces for the BMC
webpages together with their access and conservation officer for Wales
(see http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=3469 ) and am currently
working with the guidebook writers in N Wales, to include sensitive
areas on their crag diagrams so people know what to avoid."

"In Snowdonia, the arctic-alpines and tall-herb ledge communities could
be affected, but I went up to look at the main ice climbing cliffs in
June where I know the botanical importance is high. I found no evidence
of damage, but obviously it is something we need to keep an eye on. Go
to http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=3877 to see the article about
this visit."

There is much less potential for damage at Craig-y-llyn than in
Snowdonia but we would ask people to avoid climbing when there is little
snow or ice and just frozen turf. You told me that there would not be
the same reason to climb then anyway.

Do ask if you need anything more specific. I thought I would copy in
RCT's ecologist for information.

Gill

As ERU said, if the ice is well formed it is not a problem although officially permission should be sought from FCW. Having contacts and work with FCW i will call them tomorrow and ask about permissions etc.

An earlier post said that CBMRT were stopped from training there. I would suggest (Being a former member of the said team) it is because the CBMRT would cause damage. I say that because when they set up a belay the number one concern is safety. If I remember we used to used six huge metal posts hammered into the ground. Those posts would cause damage albeit small, however that small damage could cause irrepairable damage that the eye cant see. When most of us climb, we would be placing protection via screws into the ice. On the SWMC site is says there are no sports routes, reason being this would involve drilling into the rocks etc.

Happy climbing.

Jonathan

In reply to Darren09: Thanks for the advice, will be interested to hear what you find tomorrow.

In reply to Bismarck:

Not sure if you'll get to Craig Y Llyn by road at the moment - the A4061 is still closed according to BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/southeastwales/

In reply to Jon&anne-marie:

Awesome answer and hats off to CCW for the swift response. Being the guidebook author my reply was based on the email I was sent and you have also quoted :P

I also just sent a reply about other potential issues and have also contacted the BMC for advice.

Additionally I sent a text document with some short sections of old guidebook text concerning similar situations on two other winter crags that are climbed upon; i.e. Cwmyoy (aka The Daren) AND Craig Carrig Gleisiad. It basically read like this:

~Cwmyoy (aka The Daren) - OS 161 GR 296245~
The cliff is a site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) because of rare plants and wildlife. The land owner has granted permission to climb there between 1st December and 28th February, providing the cliff is in good winter climbing condition. Climbing is not permitted at any other time. This arrangement is for a trial period only during the 1996/7 season. It is essential to comply with this restriction in order to secure future access.

~Craig Carrig Gleisiad - OS 160 GR 964218~
Craig Carrig Gleisiad is a National Nature Reserve. Permission to climb is essential prior to climbing, This can be obtained from any of the following: The Warden of Storey Arms, telephone Brecon (0874) 730751. In addition, climbing is only allowed in the gullies on this cliff as there are rare and unusual plants on the buttresses that may be damaged by climbers.


I'm keen to know what the current situation is on these two crags? What should I put into print and advise the winter climbing community to do when considering these other two as potential climbing venues? The CCW has been contacted (as mentioned) but if your in the nod with friends feel free to pose the questions to them too

In reply to tipsy:

Conditions: Craig-y-fro (Rac Corner) 22/12/10

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=9821

Roads; the A470 between Merthyr and Brecon is absolutely fine, super clear today, but the lay by's are absolutely plastered though there is a little parking just up from the bigger quarry at the base of main stream.

The quarry bouldering is thin but climbable with awkward top out due to lack of ice.

Main gully is full of powder and loose snow, though some small ice steps are ok to climb.

Main stream aka RAC corner itself is ok, the lower steepest section isn't in the best condition, it could be climbed but the top out is all water so would be awkward. We traversed this bit for fun and the ice seemed ok. The rest of the route is deep powder and crusted ice with the uppermost section being in good condition, providing a nice finish.

Culvert to tree is also in, with pretty good climbing but the ice is friable and not very strong. Access through the culvert is best.

The gully directly up from the top of culvert to tree also has some short ice steps and again the conditions are variable but the ice is also not great but can still be climbed.

In reply to ERU: I will give them a call tomorrow about the other two crags and see what they say. I am in a good position with CCW and FCW as I work with them both in an enforcement type role. Both are keen to encourage outdooe activities that are done in a responsible manner and taking into consideration the environment so I dont see any problems with any of the crags. The only stumbling block I could see would be the issue of liability should something go wrong for instance at Craig Y Llyn. I know from the work I have been doing with regards to off road motorcycles there are issues about insurance and disclaimers, either way, nothing that cant be sorted.

Hopefully I can come back to you with some news tomorrow.

Regards.

JB

In reply to Jon&anne-marie:

Thanks JB et al.
Hopefully we'll be all sorted for when the conditions are OK.

In reply to fred99: I know the district manager for the area so I dont see it being a problem, although I should remember to not count my chickens before they hatch......

For those interested. Was on iron claw today in craig y llyn. In good condition. Also climbed joes fall in western beacons early in morning. The middle of the fall is completely running with water but L&R sides will take screws.

In reply to Deanjones:
Dean - how is the road between Treherbert and Hirwaun? Need a 4x4?

Cheers,


Rob

In reply to Darren09:

Is it looking any better on PyF for Friday or does it need a thaw/freeze?

Nig

In reply to shunty: Bismark/Shunty

Went up at 7am this morn. A470 fine, no issues. Car park by the toilets was deep with snow in places. The path up to PyF from there is really good, knee deep in places. Snow was hard enough to stand sometimes, really tiring but no fear of slipping on ice, no need for crampons. Minus 5 on top and with the wind prob minus 15. Loads of drifting on the paths between Windy Ridge and PyF but very little snow on the summit, 886m. Lots of spindrift close to the edge so goggles would’ve been useful this morning. The top of Far Right Gully has a nice cornice, or it did have at 8am, which will need some punching through on ascent and the gully itself looks quite full from the top. The descent route is pretty thin and the base of all the gullies are snow covered.

Did Central Rib, started in the gully, and the snow was thigh deep in places and very tiring, the ramp before the ice walls are about an inch thick in ice which just shatters with weight so be careful of anyone below. The ice itself is still a bit too thin for climbing and some offline patches just shattered with the axe. The rest of the route was fine. It’ll prob need a couple more freeze thaws to be ‘in’.

Snow gullies, Far Right, are probably the best option if you want to get out in the next few days.

Cheers,

Darren.

In reply to shunty: Road from hirwain to treherbert was closed, but we went through in a 4x4. Quite a few cars were using the road though. Seemed ok with a little care.

In reply to Deanjones: OK, thanks for that.

Rob

Got any photos darren?

In reply to stevev:

There is loads on the facebook page.

In reply to ERU: which facebook?

In reply to Darren09:
Brill, cheers for the feedback. I'll be on it tomorrow.
Nig

In reply to stevev:

The Winter Climbs in South Wales group:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1

That link should get you there.

In reply to stevev:

Steve. No it was pretty bleak up there this morn. Spindrift everywhere. Next time maybe.

Darren.

In reply to shunty:

Shunty. What time you up there?

Darren.

In reply to ERU: Anyone got pics or info on Cwmyoy? How's the road from Hay? cheers

In reply to tipsy:

Was up at RAC earlier today. Bottom section will go on the left side happily, second section isn't in too bad of nick, and the top section is in very good climbable condition.

In reply to tipsy:

Guys, I have a pass for tomorrow from about 11 onwards. Anyone need a partner? Happy to lead up to III, Second IV. Perhaps Craig y Llyn?

In reply to JoshOvki: Just back from pen y fan north face. Cold, with frozen turf all the way up. However, lots of unconsolidated powder snow in the gullies. Did near right, which was good fun although hard slog with snow. Saw group on rac corner heading back, looked thin. IIM

In reply to stevez:


Guys, my pass has just been extended so can get out early if that helps.

In reply to stevez: Keen to get out, what you got in mind?

In reply to tipsy:

Anybody know what the paths are like en-route to PYF from the carparks?

Thanks,

Darren.