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Low grade routes at Avon/Cheddar Gorge

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 tehmarks 17 Dec 2010
Quick question - are there many good, well-protected good routes at the lower grades (D-HS) at Avon/Cheddar? Having never climbed on limestone before, my basic understanding was that lower grade routes tend to be unprotectable, chossy or downright rubbish, and you only start to find good stuff at the higher grades. Is this true, or am I talking a load of rubbish?
In reply to tehmarks: With very few exceptions you are absolutely correct. Limestone also tends to be more unrelentingly steep than other rocks which is another thing to consider.

Al
 Stefan Kruger 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

Pretty much. If you want quality low-grade limestone trad in the area, you'd be better off trying the Wye Valley, say Shorn Cliff or Wintour's Leap for starters.
 beardy mike 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks: Sorry but that is a load of rubbish. Avon is 99% of the time extremely solid rock. Yes in can be a little sparse on protection but you get used to that. There aren't a huge number of easier routes but there are some and they are often good...
 Monk 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

What rock do you normally climb on?

Avon is a little run-out in places, but often not too bad when you get used to it. Some of the best and most protected low grade routes are Morpheus (VDiff), Nightmare (S - one of my favourites in the gorge at that grade), The Arete (Diff with one hard move off a belay), Sinister (HS), Dexter (S), Bob's Climb (VDiff) and Idleburger Buttress (VDiff).

All of these routes are pretty friendly and have good gear on them, although some do have the occasional short run out. None of them are at all chossy, and I think that they are all worthwhile routes.

Basically, I'd say it would definitely be worth the effort to get on some of these routes.
OP tehmarks 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

I'd usually climb on sandstone, but I moved down to London a few months ago for work reasons and haven't climbed since. Avon looks to be the best bet climbing-wise for me as it's easily-accessible by public transport (I don't drive), and one of my climbing partners goes to uni in Bristol.

I'm open to alternative suggestions for low grade trad around (by around I mean broadly down south and fairly cheap to get to) London, accessible by public transport though
In reply to tehmarks: Goblin Combe is worth a look at those grades (and indeed any grades).

If you're going by public transport the bus from Bristol to Western Super Mare goes through Cleeve from which it's a short walk.
 Monk 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

I am still standing by my recommendations in the Avon Gorge, and I have taken several beginners there over the last few years. The reputation is definitely overplayed in my opinion.

Other trad venues in the south are less easy to get to on public transport for a day trip, but would work for a weekend. Places in the Wye Valley are good - Shorn cliff has some nice lower grade routes, and Symonds yat has some good routes like Golden Fleece and Snoozin' Suzy. Swanage is worth a trip too, with decent lower grade routes at certain venues such as Subluminal and Cattle troughs. Dartmoor is also probably do-able, with some lovely routes on the tors. To be honest, on public transport the Peak district is pretty accessable - get a train to sheffield, then a bus to Hathersage/fox house and you can be at Burbage or Stanage without too much trouble.
In reply to Monk: On reflection I agree with your recommendations for the Avon Gorge, I may have been a little harsh. I still maintain however that limestone does not lend itself to easy climbing. The good climbing kicks in at VS and gets better as you climb harder.

Al
 Monk 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
> (In reply to Monk) On reflection I agree with your recommendations for the Avon Gorge, I may have been a little harsh. I still maintain however that limestone does not lend itself to easy climbing. The good climbing kicks in at VS and gets better as you climb harder.
>
> Al

I do tend to agree, in general. I only recommended 6 routes out of hundreds in the area, and that pretty much sums up all the quality, well protected low grade routes in Avon. There are others, but not many and some of them are pretty poor, while others are good but bold.
 deepstar 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks: Good low grade routes in Cheddar,Knights Climb,D. Eden Crack,M.Temptation,H.S.Pyramus,M.All worthwile.
 Chris Sansum 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

In the lower grades, the routes around Sea Walls tend to be quite polished, due to the proximity to the car park. I'd suggest walking down the road a bit if you want to avoid the polish, as people tend not to bother walking 5 minutes from the comfort of the big car park!
 The Pylon King 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

I know it's another 90 miles further but Gower has some great easier limestone climbing - usually straight off a beach (and very doable in the winter as its south facing).
 CurlyStevo 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:
If you increase you grade band by one to VS there is quite a lot of good routes to choose from in Avon.

I can recommend:
Morpheus (VDiff)
Sleepwalk (S)
Nightmare (S) (polished but good)
Dawn Walk (S) (bit run out)
Sinister (HS)

Main area actually has quite a few easier climbs I've not done, and goblin combe is good throughout the grades also.

BTW I don't think the harder routes are suddenly better protected at avon I've personally not found the choss factor to be dependent on grade but then I've never climbed above E2 at avon and mostly < E1. I think if you have a good selection of small wires, the gear is generally adequate and the climbing atleast is normally positive often on horizontal holds so apart from the on the worst polished sections it is quite predicatble to whether you can do it or not.

 CurlyStevo 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Pylon King:
"(and very doable in the winter as its south facing"
maybe a wee bit slippy just the now mind
 beardy mike 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks: Of course if you derestrict the climbing area then there is also the south coast with subliminal and Boulder ruckle - not many easy routes at that grade in the ruckle but some pretty fantastic ones... and as someone said - Wintours leap has stacks to go at, and in south wales theres Gower, the sandstone etc. Don't fear - all is not lost...
 TraceyR 17 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:
> Quick question - are there many good, well-protected good routes at the lower grades (D-HS) at Avon/Cheddar? Having never climbed on limestone before, my basic understanding was that lower grade routes tend to be unprotectable, chossy or downright rubbish, and you only start to find good stuff at the higher grades. Is this true, or am I talking a load of rubbish?

Rubbish, my first severe was Jill at Cheddar. There are also some routes up on the Tiers on the North side. Stuff at Avon Gorge, Goblin Combe, Brean Fort Crags (not been, but want to go) - also as PK said, the Gower, Three Cliffs and Pobbles have lots of easy stuff - there is also Fairy Cave for slabs, bit cold at the moment though as it is north facing.
 Bulls Crack 18 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

By and large you are correct at those grade -despite folk coming up with a few examples they have to scratch their heads for. Of course decent easier routes exist but not in the same proportions as on grit or mountain rock.
 beardy mike 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Bulls Crack: Now come on, I think you might be painting a slightly blacker picture than reality. I mean lets face it, many of the routes at avon and wintours are about 4-5 times the length of some routes at stanage:

Wintours:
Bottle Buttress
Central rib
the corner routes
Pappillion + a few others on fly wall
Left and right hand route
Greta (or is that VS? can't remember)

Shorn cliff there are quite a few scattered around - admitedly a bit better at VS + but a great venue

Avon:
Morpheus
Nightmare
Sleepwalk
The arete
Sinster
Dexter
Early morning traverse
Bobs climb
Direct route
Plus a few other lesser climbs

Cheddar: Admitedly better at HVS+ but even so:

Jack & Jill
Eden crack (bit of a ramble but hey)
Knights climb
The offwidth up the right hand side of Lion rock
plus a stackload of sports to help improve technique, including lots of 4's and 5's

Goblin combe:

Stackloads to go at and all worthwhile. It's a friendly good quality crag.

Do I need to carry on? Stop depressing the poor lad. By the time he's ticked the abov he'll be ready for the VS and then theres a lot more to go at...

 Bulls Crack 18 Dec 2010
In reply to mike kann:

Is that all of them?

True they're longer tan grit (of which I'm not a particular fan) but proportionally there's more elsewhere ...that's not saying they're not good routes though. I haven't actually done any of them but after visiting Shorn Cliff for the first time this year I was impressed how good it was over a wide grade range.
OP tehmarks 19 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:

There's quite a few suggestions there, which I'll definitely look more into.

I'm not a huge fan of grit - I'm much more a fan of multipitch and routes which have a 'mountain' feel to them.

Out of curiosity, how long does limestone tend to take to dry?
 Monk 19 Dec 2010
In reply to tehmarks:
> (In reply to tehmarks)
>
>
> Out of curiosity, how long does limestone tend to take to dry?

That's a bit of a tricky one to answer - some limestone dries in minutes, whereas other bits a nearly always wet. However, many parts of Avon will be dry 30 minutes after rain if there's a bit of wind and some sun. Atthistime of year it can take a bit longer. Generally though, it's considered a pretty fast drying crag.

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