UKC

Edinburgh-based climber Viv Scott takes a look at modern Scottish winter clothing systems and gear, and reviews his top pick of current season gear.

"Scottish winter climbing broadly involves three activities: walking (uphill and back down) for considerable distance with a heavy pack, climbing: either moving reasonably quickly on easy terrain or more slowly on harder routes, and belaying: AKA standing around for extended periods..."

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3284

I think RAB sales have just doubled Good article!

In reply to UKC Gear: Great Article Viv!!! I wear very similar items to yourself from both Rab and Mountain Equipment. Very rarley use a hard shell now in fact the other day (during the massive thaw) was the first time for at least 6 years. Gloves wise can I also throw the ME Couloir into the mix (no pun intended ) great glove!

Keep up the goood work

Cliff (www.roxcool.co.uk)

In reply to UKC Gear:

Elements of a good article here with some good advice offered however it falls into the usual advertorial trap of becoming a list of the most expensive gear available at this point in time. The article did ask for alternate advice so here is mine, I will try my hardest not to mention my sponsors products (Greggs and Ginsters). This has kept me comfortable for the last god know's how long.

Thermal underwear, much of a muchness what you choose once you have decided whether to take out the mortgage on rhino wool or not. I wear Aldi thermal trolleys, a thermal t shirt and a pair of running shorts.

Walk in in underwear (+ pertex leggings and lined shirt if windy) arrive at hut, corrie cool, comfortable and mostly dry.

Don climbing clothes; pile/pertex salopettes and shirt, remove t shirt if sodden. Dry, warm snuggly. A thin shell helps keep out draughts if it is windy or v cold. Those folks who thought you were crazy on the walk in will be shivering in their sweaty clothes on the belay while you smile smugly.

A belay coat can be helpful but buy these cheap, invariably they will end up being worn whilst seconding and their fabric tears really easy in chimneys, on ice gear etc.

Sundries; 2 hats a thin one to get sweated out on the walk in, a warmer one for climbing in and a buff or two to keep out draughts.

Glove etc, you can make wrist things from socks, odd ones are best (red and green, port and starboard). I run climbing gloves/belay mittens combo some times taking 3 pairs of gloves if it is wet. The "waterproofing" on gloves usually lasts a season and then is defunct. Buy last years models at the end of the season in preparation for next year, take the previous years with you as a spare pair

None of this advice is cool or sexy, winter climbing never used to be either and I certainly am not. The route does not care if you are wearing patagucci or peter storm.

Oh yeah, lunch; pies and pasties from the 2 G's

In reply to UKC Gear: Nice article Viv! It's terribly untrendy but the Buffalo (and Montane) DoubleP system is worth considering in the 'alternatives' as well. Stephen of Needlesport is keeping the faith there: http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Technical-Clothing/Shell/Buffalo

Has anyone seen the RAB Exodus in any of the chain shops yet? My nearest Cotswold didn't have them. Looks a perfect replacement to my dearly loved but now unfortunately slightly melted Marmot softshell, but I'd like to try one on before buying.

In reply to TobyA:
Yeah I considered one aswell to replace my Ascensionist which I tore a couple of holes in during a longish fall.
I ended up getting a fall 2011 Westcomb Skeena Hoody tho (As well as a Flow hoody but not for climbing). Haven't received the stuff yet so can't say much about it. On paper it looks fantastic. I love companies pushing the envelope abit with more progressive designs than everyone else.
Just FYI, Patagonia has no new unlined stretch-woven coming fall 2011. They're all in Powershield Pro, which is a big step backwards breath-ability wise.
Westcomb seems like awesome company tho, I called their customer service to ask some questions about fit and they put me through to the guy designing the jacket, spoke to him for about 20 minutes.
Show me another gear company these days where a normal consumer get that treatment.

In reply to 3leggeddog: Very good advice, I prefer it to advertorials.

In reply to Djupnes:


I hope it works great - the Westcomb stuff I reviewed was very good, but I was quite surprised when another UKC reviewer said the helmet compatible hood to her Westcomb jacket isn't. See: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=430791

In reply to TobyA:
Yeah maybe it was her moped helmet, most other comments I've read states the hood is big, like gamma mx big.

In reply to Cliff Lowther: Second that emotion... The Couloir Gloves are awesome. Bit pricey, but fit, work and last longer than the cheaper alternatives.

Clothing wise - It's all about the Paramo.

I've heard the assertion that it's heavy, but my smock is around 750g, if you're carrying a 500g hardshell as well as the softshell your wearing, you should ditch both and go for the Paramo. (It's also cheaper than a hard+soft shell combo)

If you look after it how you're supposed to it will keep you dry, from the outside, and it keeps you so dry from your own sweat it's a great scottish winter choice.

Their 'ParametaS' as a base/mid-layer for really cold days wicks like nothing else I've seen.

Oh, and lose the Merino, because it may be more comfortable when you are damp, but it stays damp for a long time, and gets cold quick. It's a system, after all, that works on the premise that you're going to sweating your arse off inside a plastic membrane and therefore will need something to deal with all that sweat...

Oh dear. I've become one 'those' people.

Sorry.

In reply to UKC Gear:

My 2 p - This works for me.

Very thin synthetic liner socks are great for reducing the chance of blisters, but if they're soaked with sweat feet can get very cold on belays. It is probably better to use merio liners or not bother at all.

Yeti Gaiters are super untrendy, but they keep your boots dry and your feet and lower legs warm and toasty. Wear your overtrousers over them if you don't want other folk to see.

Changing into a dry thermal at the base of the route is a good idea if you aren't carrying the sack up the route. But I don't really like carrying a sodden thermal up the route for the sake of it.

What works quite well is wearing a synthetic thermal to the base of the route. Remove this while gearing up and replace it with a warm merino thermal. Then layer the synthetic thermal over the top. The merino should keep you warm and your body heath should quickly dry out the other thermal.

Mid layer. I wear a Patagonia R1 Hoody. The balaclava hood creates a brilliant seal from the elements and the thumb loops keep my wrists warm, preventing hot aches. It is very expensive, but I think worth the money.

Normally over the top of this I wear a Patagonia Ascentionist Jacket, which I also use as a windproof on the walk in. This seems to be super water resistant and very breathable, several of my friends have commented that it is more waterproof than their Hardshells.

Gloves. Thick liners if walking in with poles. Thin liners if I'm walking in without.

For climbing, I've been using a pair of BD punishers, which I think are brilliant. They're warm enough to wear seconding and belaying and dexterous enough to lead in.The other day I put them on are the base of the route and didn't remove them until back at the car.

It's a good idea to have light pair of mitts for cold hands and dropped glove f*ck ups. Buffalo Mitts are very warm and super cheap. However if it is very cold and you're going to be belaying for hours at a time then a huge pair of synthetic Mitts will make everything more pleasant.

Lowe Alpine make a great little bag for carrying a belay jacket and some food up the route. http://www.lowealpine.com/eng/prod_app_det.php?catid=16&itemid=411&...

Don't bother with carrying cold water. A flask full of hot juice is a much better bet and a massive psychological boost. Carry the cup/lid in your pocket and use it to drink from streams.

Never ever leave your headtorch. For example if you are going to leave your sack clipped to a runner half way up a pitch, make sure you remove your torch from the lid first.

Belay Jackets are a pretty idea. For Scotland I don't think they need to be too warm. Make sure it has a good hood and is cut well enough to climb with. A bright colour is a good idea too.

I hope people find this useful.

In reply to UKC Gear:
Hi
has anyone tested the bionic base layers extensively for winter mountaineering?
Got a set recently for skitouring and they are said to be very good.
Used them once for a short tour and they performed quite good.
Supposed to be very warm, thin/light and super fast drying.
Works in the high end variants over this compression effect.
I bought a size bigger - more comfy.
anyone tried them in wintermountaineering/iceclimbing?
cheers
Frank

In reply to UKC Gear: This is a very good article and very much enjoyed reading it. Thanks.

In reply to UKC Gear: I thought this was really helpful and not too much of an ad. It would be useless if it didn't mention products

In reply to UKC Gear:
With the usual layering system I found I would be shedding layers on the trek up to the climb, arrive dehydrated and with soggy base layer.
What I do now is start of from the road with only a long sleeved base layer such as Helly Hansen. Initially I am very cold but soon heat up on the ascent. As I get higher it usually gets colder or windier but I stick it out till I am really cold then strip off and put on a Buffalo DP Big Wall shirt with attached hood and continue. If I get too hot I vent the sides to cool down. It's a bit of an odd feeling with back, front and arms hot but sides freezing but it works and you don't sweat up. At the foot of the climb I zip the sides up and I am ready to start a route in warm, dry pile and pertex. I also use Buffalo mitts which are excellent. This gear looks fragile and even homemade but mine has lasted for years.
I carry a Goretex jacket for extreme weather but I have almost never used it. I am amazed at the wide spread of conditions that Buffalo gear can cover and I would never go back to the multi-layer system. I never got a good balance using the base and mid layer plus hard shell system and always felt clammy. If you do get a bit sweaty in pile and pertex you dry out in no time and you can actually see the condensation forming on the outer face of the pertex. I once got soaked in a sudden squall so I just put the Buffalo shirt on over my saturated thermal base layer and thin fleece shirt. In a few minutes with the squall over the moisure was running down the outside of the pertex and in about 15 minutes the base layers were dry. It doesn't look like it should work but it does and I am a total convert.

In reply to the_one_jim:


Don't worry. ()

I don't know how applicable it is to Scottish winter climbing, but if you have a Howies Waffle mid layer on over a merino base layer, the honeycomb knit of the Waffle layer absorbs the moisture which is making you feel damp and cold, and your body heat makes it gradually evaporate away.

People might have to wait untill next Autumn and Winter to buy a Howies Waffle midlayer now though, I think they might be selling off thier Winter stuff in preperation for Spring.

Either way, Howies Waffle mid-layers are great at keeping you dry and warm.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to the_one_jim:

It's called a Waffler mid layer, not a Waffle.

In reply to Timmd: Mmmmmmmmmm waffles

In reply to the power:Perhaps that's why the called it the Waffler, because Waffle was already a trade mark? I like Waffles too.

Yesterday I got to Stanage Pole on my bike just with a merino base layer on under my pile and pertex windproof fleece, and I started to feel cold from sweat, and I put my Waffler layer on which i'd been carrying in my rucksack from having been overdressed when I set off, and I felt totally dry by the time i'd stopped looking at the view and watching the grouse for a bit.

Tim

In reply to Timmd:It was probably about half an hour or so before I left for home. Difficult to tell when you're contemplating a view though.

In reply to Rob Bruce:
I'm afraid is was purely an ad - for Rab, Marmot and Patagonia

I'ld love to write a piece on Aldi, Lidl and Buffalo which are my preferred options, but I can't see UKC being particularly interested.

In reply to Dave Ferguson:


Have you asked Sarah or Mick? If you can equip yourself at the supermarket (everyone knows about Buffalo) I'm sure they would be.

In reply to TobyA:
Does anyone (Al Evans maybe) remember an article in Crags (I think it was there, maybe Climber & Rambler) by Mick Fowler on winter climbing where he recommended old jumpers from Oxfam?

In reply to Doug:


I think I read a version of that in one of my early copies of Climber and Hillwalker (circa 1990). If not it was someone quoting Fowler's article.