UKC

Hi there all,

Does anyone know any places which would provide easy (4B-4C) sport climbing multi pitches in the UK?

I've been climbing for around 3 years now but mainly indoors. My top grade sport climbing has been 5A(UK) both indoors and outdoors (up to 6A top roping and V4 bouldering). We are really keen to do some sport climbing multi pitching in the UK but most places seem to be trad - not something we feel comfortable with.


We would really appreciate your help,

Pav

In reply to Pav:

No such thing really, all the easy multi-pitch was done long before sport climbing was 'invented'. The stuff that was left was mostly steep and hard.

Chris

In reply to Pav: To be honest sports climbs of any length below 6a are in short supply in the UK and many are located in grotty quarries. To get the most out of climbing in the UK you need to either get to grips with trad or start climbing in the 6's and above. As Chris says climbing here has a long history and a very well established tradition, in both senses of the word.

Al

I think there may be one or two in horseshoe quarry in the peak district, not totally sure but its worth a look

In reply to Pav:

Learning some trad and perhaps looking at more technical scrambles could be a good way into low-grade multipitch here in the UK. There are oodles of brilliant low-grade trad MP routes around, so limiting yourself to bolted routes would mean missing out on some excellent days out.

Just my opinion, mind!

In reply to Pav:

You say that you don't feel comfortable with trad - but it is really well worth getting into trad climbing if you enjoy climbing in the UK. There is such a fantastic selection and it will open up so many opportunities to you.

Where abouts are you based? How come you haven't got into trad climbing at all? Do you not know any other climbers who climb trad? Is it that you don't like the thought of it or that you aren't sure where to start, or that the kit costs too much?

In reply to Tiff: There are routes at Horseshoe and other places where there are routes on a lower tier and routes on an upper tier but that's not multi-pitch in my book.

Al

In reply to Pav: Cheddar Gorge is the best place for Multi Pitch sports climbs, you need to look at the BMC site to check access restrictions before climbing there though. There are some single pitch routes there in the grades you are after, but the multi pitch stuff starts in the 6s.
For easy single pitch Sports climbs a Dorset visit might be worthwhile. Blacknor Beach, Cheyne Wears, The Cuttings (all Portland) and Winspit (Swanage) have lots of routes grade 3 - 5.
If you want to experience good easy multi pitch climbs in the UK then booking onto a learning to lead course at Plas Y Brenin or somewhere similar would open up a wealth of opportunities, or hook up with an experienced Trad climber to learn the ropes.

In reply to Tiff:

Nice one Tiff - thanks I'll check it out.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Hi when you talk about the course in Plas Y Brenin is that trad or sport?

In reply to Pav:

Or you could get a cheap flight to Spain?

In reply to Tiff:

There are three or four 2x pitch routes on the back left wall, but they are a) harder than the o.p. want and b) horribly loose.

Chris

In reply to Pav:

They run courses for both. If you want good climbing in the UK that is equivalent to the grades you are climbing indoors you really need to head down the Trad path.
...and remember “Fear is the path to the Sport Crag. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

In reply to tlm:

Is Spain in the UK ?

In reply to Pav:

Timewise, it is only a couple of hours from your nearest airport - maybe nearer than some UK climbing destinations!

What is putting you off trad?

In reply to tlm:

Based in London. I just don't like the sound of it. The idea of taking completely unnecessary risk doesn't sit well with me. When I looked into it at the beginning I found out that the gear comes out more often than not. Also I don't really know anyone who would be very experienced with it. It also just looks fiddly - when we went with a friend of mine (I just followed) - it looked to me more like a high altitude DIY job (with all the putting the gear in and taking it out) than climbing - I just want to go up walls and feel secure when I mess up Of course I mean no offence to all you fantastic people that do trad - hat's off to you all.

In reply to Pav:

this isn't true!


a course would be an excellent idea, for learning about how to use gear, bomber placements, etc.

But if trad's not your bag, it's not your bag.

In reply to The Ivanator:

No fear there - I just like to take calculated risks only - and this calculation is telling me that the risk with trad is higher with sport so I don't see the point (as long as I can do sport).

In reply to tlm:
Higher unnecessary added risk is putting me off. I know you are right we will go for hols to Spain we are looking for a quick weekend stuff (and flying always takes longer than just the actual flight time.

Cheers

In reply to Tall Clare:

Cheers I may give a course a go one day

In reply to Pav: In that case your best bets are portland for weekends and you'll have to leave the multi pitch stuff for foreign hols, for quick trips southern sandstone for top roping is close.

In reply to Pav:


You're misunderstanding it totally! Not exactly surprising given how some folk talk it up but still, you have quite a distorted perception of the relative risks. If your gear came out more often than not las time you tried then you were doing it wrong, simple, harsh but true. It's really not hard to pick up the basic skills if you learn from someone that knows what they're doing and once you do trad climbing can be every bit as safe as sport.


Again, doing it wrong. 'Trad' is nothing special, it's just climbing. If you want to make it all about fiddling with gear and wasting time you can but it can equally well be about climbing fluidly and safely in a spectacular setting. You don't need to be an expert to stay safe, you just need to know the basics and be diligent. If you don't have a friend that can teach you there are clubs and courses.

Without wishing to seem rude and simply going off the grades and timeframes given it seems like you will get a *lot* more out of uk trad than you're ever likely to from sport. There's frankly very little point in hunting down the few low grade bolt routes that are dotted around Britain simply to avoid learning a few simple skills.

Failing that, if you're really convinced you're not cut out for a bit of trad... get yourself fitter, stronger, learn to lead confidently (why TR harder than you lead indoors?) and throw yourself into the sport properly to escape the tyranny of the low grade choss.

Or buy a pad and get yourself on the Eurostar to Font.

Oh and in answer to your original question: No, there's nothing in the uk that really fits the bill. There is some reasonable quality low grade single pitch sport but not much and it's dotted around all over the place. Portland is probably your best local venue for this. France/Spain if you want multipitch.

jk

In reply to Pav:

You sound too highly strung for climbing. Do you wear a cotton wool suit when you get out of bed?

(i.e. stop being ridiculous)

In reply to Pav:

Thanks very much everyone as a conclusion it looks that the Horseshoe has some easy multi pitch sports climbs! Also Cheddar Gorge has some good leading but it may be on the hard side in terms of the grades but worth giving a go as it has easy single pitches. Other than that I just can't believe that all of this beautiful island has only got one place with multi pitch sports climbing place - real shame I think for those that are getting into the sport or just are not willing to take higher risks.

Once again thanks to you all for letting me know your thoughts and if anyone remembers/finds some more multi pitching sport climbs please let me know.

Cheers,

Pav

In reply to ClimberEd:

Yes Ed I do in fact I never take it off - even when I go skydiving Like I said I didn't mean to offend - don't understand why you are trying to be rude but fair play if that's your style

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Cheers - I've actually remember this quarry - I've done some top roping there - was very loose indeed.


Cheers

In reply to Pav:


If you're having such a hard time digesting this information, perhaps climbing isn't for you?

There's a plethora of perfectly safe, easy, multi and single pitch routes out there for those getting into the sport which are probably safer than easy bolt routes due to the sheer quantity of bomber gear placements on them. Others have pointed out the fallacy of assuming that trad = danger so I won't bother repeating it.

You're going to be very disappointed when you travel to Horseshoe, BTW. Your loss.

In reply to Pav:

I find people who are so risk averse tedious.

In reply to Pav:

Troll of the week, 8/10 - well done. Your last two posts were the clincher!!

E

In reply to Pav: The best climbing in the UK is trad by a long way. There is some good sport climbing but in my opinion you need to climbing at least 6a to get the good stuff and 7a to get the best. A lot of the low grade stuff is chossy and poor. There are some exceptions to this.

Trad climbing isn't neccesarily more risky, its just more involved and requires more skills and knowledge. Lets not forget that when you are sport climbing you are trusting gear that you do not know the history of and often the quality of the rock is overlooked - people get into the mind set of its bolted therefore its safe. Not always true but I'm sure plenty of prople on this site will agree with this and there have been serious and fatal accidents because of this.

Also on easy grade sport routes you are still likely to hurt yourself when you fall due to the angle of the rock - you are likely to bounce and hit things. Sport climbing really comes into its own when the grades get harder and the rock steeper so you can fall without hitting anything.

Having said all of this Sport Climbing is good fun. I would also suggest getting yourself off to the continent if you want good multipitch sport climbing.

Or put the time in to learn how to trad climb, which will open up so much amazing climbing. The UK has some of the best trad cragging in the world - don't miss out. Get a mate to teach you, join a club or book a course.

ps i know more people who hav injured themselves bouldering than trad climbing, including a friend who broke her back from 1 metre!

In reply to Pav:

I think the safety aspect is just an illusion. Climbing is NOT safe - most accidents I've seen have been through complacency at so called 'safe' sport venues.

In particular, easy bolted routes are rarely safe because protection is far more spaced than is often the case on trad and on easy climbs even a small fall results in you hitting something hard.

In reply to jkarran:
Hi JK,

I think you got me interested in trad. After all "when in Rome..." I'll probably sign up on a course as you are right especially I can believe that folks to talk it up and make it sound worst than it is. And if I learn it properly maybe it could be as safe and not as fiddly.

For now though I'll stick to sport in Portland and abroad but I think I may sign up on a trad course sometime soon too.

Many thank for your reply,

Pav

In reply to Enty:

Enty why don't you get one!?

In reply to Pav:

Get one what?

E

In reply to Enty:

A life?

When I first started climbing I was put of Trad partly because of the danger and partly because of the faff ("High altitude DIY") but the main reason was that Trad evangelists put me off.

You rarely get high end Trad climbers belittling other forms of climbing like bouldering and sport but there is a large group of low grade trad climbers that produce rant after self righteous rant that just confirmed to me that I did not want to be part of that crowd.

However I later realised that stance made me just as ignorant as them and have since found that a day out multipitching easy routes is a lot of fun. I would recommend joining a club or making friends at the wall and giving it a go.

P.S Since I have now managed to insult a large cross section of UK trad climbers I would like to hold out the olive branch and offer a trad – sport exchange day to anyone interested.

In reply to Pav:

Annoying as it may seem, from what I've seen on here Enty's pretty much 'living the dream'. If I had to get a life I'd have his (except perhaps without the cycling, because that's for freaks ).

Anyway...

In reply to Tru:

I don't think anyone's ranting, just saying that there's not much to go at for what the OP wants in the UK, but that there's lots of low-grade trad multipitch and that it doesn't all have to be dangerous.

In reply to Pav:

I'll swap you a life for a sense of humour.

Hang on a minute, no I won't, both mine are perfect

E

In reply to Pav:

Hundreds of climbers can be found every weekend, out on trad crags all over the UK. They aren't all mad, they aren't all that good at climbing, and they aren't all thrill seekers!

As has been said above, trad gear, when placed properly, will not just fall out. If it is falling out, then it has been badly placed, probably by someone who is just not that experienced.

If you like climbing, then you will love the options that are opened to you by learning trad. I would say the biggest obstacle to you is actually whether or not you choose to learn? That, and buying enough gear to be able to go on your own. But as others have said, you can try courses or clubs to get more of a feel for what trad is about before having to spend anything at all....

Good luck with it!

My slightly hypocritical rant was not directed at any posters in this thread it was more an unfounded generalisation directed at all trad climbers.

In reply to Enty:

OK now you got me laughing

In reply to Tru:

Hee hee brilliant - just let us know when you do the "exchange" and if we can come. Nice posting - cheers for your advice.

In reply to GrahamD:

Most accidents I have seen are at easy Trad venues, and most of them involve gear placements failing.


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

....which goes to show that no form of climbing is 'safe'.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Most accidents I've seen have been at indoor walls, followed closely by outdoor bouldering

In reply to Pav: Of accidents and incidents I have been either witness to or involved in (a small number), the following have been the causes:
* Rockfall ...could obviously occur at Trad or Sports venue. Many UK Sports quarries are particularly prone to rockfall.
* Belayer complacency ...again could happen in either style. I suspect that when moving from route to route at a "friendly feeling" sports venue, tying in mistakes are more likely.
* Ground fall taken when placing first gear ...OK this one is Trad specific, but could easily happen when clipping the first or even second bolts on many Sports routes.
All forms of climbing carry risks as the BMC's participation statement makes clear. Sport is not per se safer, I feel safer on a well protected easy Trad multi pitch on good rock (say Hope on the Idwal Slabs*) than Sports Climbing at a venue like Tintern Quarry.
* well until the "easy way off" anyway!

In reply to Toreador:

Most accidents I have seen are in the home....

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/accidents-and-first-aid/Pages/Introduction.asp...

Pav,

I'd like to apologise on behalf of the less helpful posters on this thread. The vast majority of climbers in the UK (trad and otherwise) are a very friendly bunch, but unfortunately a few of the bitter irritating ones are rather vocal, like the loud drunk man in the pub who, although on his own, makes his racist slurs heard all the way across the other side of the room.

Er... I believe you've basically got the info you're looking for anyway, and I would similarly encourage you to have another look into trad climbing. If you get to go on a course, or better, to climb with someone who really knows what they're doing, you will discover that trad can be just as safe as sport up to a certain grade threshold, and as you have already been told, that it gets you places that sport climbing cannot.

If you decide not to bother (sometimes I get pretty fed up with the degree of faff inherent in trad - although usually only when I haven't done it in a while and am a bit rusty) then that's fine, hope you manage to find some good fun sports stuff to do.

Cheers,
Pete.

In reply to ClimberEd:

I find people who are so condescending depressing.

I'm so glad I don't have friends like you whose dull and superior opinions I have to tolerate and/or attempt to moderate.

Good luck in realising how much of a wanker you sound, and in overcoming it. It is possible.

Pete.

In reply to Pav:
Other than that I just can't believe that all of this beautiful island has only got one place with multi pitch sports climbing place - real shame I think for those that are getting into the sport or just are not willing to take higher risks.

Or look at it another way - for the small size of this island we have a fantastically rich and accessible resource of low-hard trad climbing - thanks to geology + weathering + history..rejoice!

it's just a geological reality ( plus the fact that ethically we don't bolt up protectable rock) that there isn't much good multi-pitch or 'easy' sport...that's the way it is.

In reply to tlm:
>

Agreed. When I started trad I'd often get to the top of a route and see all the gear I'd so painstakingly put it all sitting against the harness of my belayer. Now the only time a piece comes out is if I know it's a dodgy placement when I put it in.

I'm still not very experienced and don't climb hard stuff, but my gear placement isn't bad - you get the hang of the basics fairly quick.

In reply to Pav:
Others have pretty much covered it, but it's probably also worth pointing out that climbing bolted routes on loose rock is likely to be a lot more risky, with less that you can do to manage the risk, than climbing with leader-placed gear on good, solid rock.

In reply to skog:

Good point and it's probably made even worse by the fact that, in my experience, sports climbers are less likely to wear a helmet.

Al

In reply to Pav: Although you may doubt it, Ive seen far worse responses to similar OPs. Good luck with your climbing, hope you find what you are after and enjoy it.

In reply to Tam Stone:

It's been fun on here actually, most peeps gave reasonable advice confirming that there isn't any decent easy lead climbing in the UK and that this is trad territory.

Cheers mate,

Pav

In reply to PeteH:

Many thanks for your reply I really appreciate it.

Pav

In reply to PeteH:

>.......you will discover that trad can be just as safe as sport up to a certain grade threshold

On easy angled terrain with good protection opportunities it can be safer because you place protection or belay where you need it so you can manage the consequences of a fall onto the inevitable ledges far batter.

In reply to Pav:

There is easy lead climbing - it just isn't bolted.

In reply to GrahamD:

Per grade range - climbs don't necessarily get bolder the higher the grade.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Falls become safer the steeper the terrain, though so the relatively long run outs between bolts becomes less of an issue.

In reply to GrahamD:

I was thinking of trad

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Nope, not necessarily, but in general and on average, they do.

The average VS is better protected than the average HVS which is better protected than the average E1... And so on. I can't prove it, but I think it's true.

And on some rock types (e.g. grit) this is even more true.

Pete.

In reply to PeteH:

Depends what you mean by better protected - more gear doesn't necessarily mean better protection if there is more to hit. A big E1 crack or corner has as much gear as a S crack or corner but there is much less to hit !

In reply to Pav: Most entertaining thread I have read in a long time! Happy climbing Pav.

In reply to Pav:

For easy multi-pitch sport, then Europe really is the place for it. Due to the long standing history of climbing without bolting in the UK, all the easy stuff was done a long time ago (and mostly soloed or protected with one rubbish nut stolen from a railway line). Things only started getting bolted when literally all the accessible easy stuff had been done traditionally, so the only things left to bolt were the harder routes. Also an agreement (of sorts) was made that bolts would not be placed on mountain crags or natural sandstone outcrops (i.e. grit).

Also, our islands are not well endowed with continuously steep faces of rock of good, sound quality and higher than 50m, whereas lots of countries in Europe are.

In reply to Jimbo C:

Actually I can't think of that many venues in Europe in the OPs stated grade range. I could well be way wide of the mark there of course !

In reply to GrahamD: I think that you are right. In fact I seem to recall that when sport climbing first took off the lowest grade was 5. I think the lower grades were an afterthought some years later when it was realised that there may be a demand.

Al