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Ok I have been climbing for around 18 months now and I have reached a point were I feel a bit stuck.
I am about a lead climb VD/HVD grade, have done 2 winter routes grade I and II, been to spain and lead climbed 4+. Indoors I can struggle up a 5.
But I seem to be finding my arms get pumped and my legs don't always feel like I have the strength to push up. As routes get harder I feel the fear creeping in a bit with commitment to moves.
My boyfriend is brilliant and has got me trying strength excercises and endurance stuff (to keep me out of mischief as much as anything).I am sure it is a mixture of my body and my brain but I really do want to progess (to the point I talk to myself on routes)and at least get to VS.
Most of my climbing buddies are guys and sometimes I wonder if it is just me being that typical girl so I guess it would be nice to hear a girls opinion, how they overcome issues and have moved forwards.
look forward to responses if guys have advice thats great too
I am about a lead climb VD/HVD grade, have done 2 winter routes grade I and II, been to spain and lead climbed 4+. Indoors I can struggle up a 5.
But I seem to be finding my arms get pumped and my legs don't always feel like I have the strength to push up. As routes get harder I feel the fear creeping in a bit with commitment to moves.
My boyfriend is brilliant and has got me trying strength excercises and endurance stuff (to keep me out of mischief as much as anything).I am sure it is a mixture of my body and my brain but I really do want to progess (to the point I talk to myself on routes)and at least get to VS.
Most of my climbing buddies are guys and sometimes I wonder if it is just me being that typical girl so I guess it would be nice to hear a girls opinion, how they overcome issues and have moved forwards.
look forward to responses if guys have advice thats great too
In reply to jojo30:
I would advise watching neil greshams coaching DVD which will give you an insight into whether it is your technique holding you back rather than your strength. It sounds like you may need a boost in that area, as when you have good technique you rely less on your endurance and strength.
I would advise watching neil greshams coaching DVD which will give you an insight into whether it is your technique holding you back rather than your strength. It sounds like you may need a boost in that area, as when you have good technique you rely less on your endurance and strength.
In reply to jojo30:
not a girl, though I'm now expecting some quip about the length of my hair, but it's amazing how you can feel weak because you're technique isn't up to it.
To prevent a ramble, I've had to have some time off over autmumn and winter, and have gone from happily doing 10-15 chin ups on a doorframe to not being able to hold my own weight on one. Despite that I can climb a harder grade than when I was stronger. It's because my technique has improved and I can feel it when climbing.
Do you tend to climb with just your boyfriend? It might help to try climbing with someone new a couple of times, or getting advice from an instructor at a wall, watch some videos, or even go on a course to improve your grade. Sometimes you can spot things just by watching others, sometimes you need someone to point out what you're doing wrong.
not a girl, though I'm now expecting some quip about the length of my hair, but it's amazing how you can feel weak because you're technique isn't up to it.
To prevent a ramble, I've had to have some time off over autmumn and winter, and have gone from happily doing 10-15 chin ups on a doorframe to not being able to hold my own weight on one. Despite that I can climb a harder grade than when I was stronger. It's because my technique has improved and I can feel it when climbing.
Do you tend to climb with just your boyfriend? It might help to try climbing with someone new a couple of times, or getting advice from an instructor at a wall, watch some videos, or even go on a course to improve your grade. Sometimes you can spot things just by watching others, sometimes you need someone to point out what you're doing wrong.
In reply to jojo30:
I hit a 'Plateau' 12months ago and one thing that REALLY helped me is climbing more often and with other ladies.
I teamed up with a more experianced female climber and mirrored her movements and because I did not want to be 'left behind' I found myself pushing harder and moving in different ways with success!
We are not as naturally strong as men & generally we are shorter and in relation to the head game if i just 'switch off' and think of something else whilst i'm climbing i'm more fluid rather than thinking 'I can't do this' and 'I'm not going to make that move or I can't make that move'
Obliviously much to my frustration I’ve not actually led trad yet and my main (limited!!!) experience outside is sport so in my view your climbing grades are nothing to be unhappy about.
Also I agree that the Neil Gresham DVD is great, well worth watching.
I hit a 'Plateau' 12months ago and one thing that REALLY helped me is climbing more often and with other ladies.
I teamed up with a more experianced female climber and mirrored her movements and because I did not want to be 'left behind' I found myself pushing harder and moving in different ways with success!
We are not as naturally strong as men & generally we are shorter and in relation to the head game if i just 'switch off' and think of something else whilst i'm climbing i'm more fluid rather than thinking 'I can't do this' and 'I'm not going to make that move or I can't make that move'
Obliviously much to my frustration I’ve not actually led trad yet and my main (limited!!!) experience outside is sport so in my view your climbing grades are nothing to be unhappy about.
Also I agree that the Neil Gresham DVD is great, well worth watching.
In reply to jojo30: You need to watch some good climbers and in particular, good girl climbers.
You probably try and follow the moves that your boyfriend does, which may not work for you. I climb with my fiance and we both have very different styles of climbing; mainly because he is taller and stronger than I.
On things that he can just pull up on, I have to twist my body into the wall, or flag, or toe/heel hook (ie use more technique)
For the fear thing, just climb more you will build up your confidence. Boulder and jump off at different heights to get used to falling, or practise falling at the climbing wall. I'm still a scaredy cat but it is getting better, particularly when I have practised moves and I am confident of making certain moves.
hope this helps
You probably try and follow the moves that your boyfriend does, which may not work for you. I climb with my fiance and we both have very different styles of climbing; mainly because he is taller and stronger than I.
On things that he can just pull up on, I have to twist my body into the wall, or flag, or toe/heel hook (ie use more technique)
For the fear thing, just climb more you will build up your confidence. Boulder and jump off at different heights to get used to falling, or practise falling at the climbing wall. I'm still a scaredy cat but it is getting better, particularly when I have practised moves and I am confident of making certain moves.
hope this helps
In reply to lynda:
I'd echo this in that the shorter climbers I know tend to have better technique and much better body positioning. I'm at a curious disadvantage because I'm taller than them and can sometimes lank past things that would be useful.
I'd also agree that falling practice can be good if only to reassure you that the system does work.
I'd echo this in that the shorter climbers I know tend to have better technique and much better body positioning. I'm at a curious disadvantage because I'm taller than them and can sometimes lank past things that would be useful.
I'd also agree that falling practice can be good if only to reassure you that the system does work.
In reply to KatieG:
Word check - *obviously
Word check - *obviously
In reply to jojo30:
I find I get stronger when I climb a lot with someone who climbs just a little harder than I do. I push myself to keep up with them, where as if my partner is way better or way worse than me then I have no goal posts to push towards and just climb at whatever grade I am comfortable. As others have mentioned though, climbing with another girl could help, we do move differently. Where do you live? If you are in central Scotland I'd be happy to climb with you if you think it would help?
I find I get stronger when I climb a lot with someone who climbs just a little harder than I do. I push myself to keep up with them, where as if my partner is way better or way worse than me then I have no goal posts to push towards and just climb at whatever grade I am comfortable. As others have mentioned though, climbing with another girl could help, we do move differently. Where do you live? If you are in central Scotland I'd be happy to climb with you if you think it would help?
In reply to jojo30:
Learn not to grip hard on holds all the time, it pumps you quickly.
Don't know if you drive but if you do, can you remember holding the steering wheel tight at first and getting arm ache, it the same thing.
When on your routes, specially when on a top rope and finding you are gripping, see if you can stay on with much less force. People are seen hanging on when all they often need is one hand just keeping them on or in balance.
Try it, you will soon find that you can do much more and still feel able to carry on.
At the wall, find a corner you can bridge on and see if you can get a position for a hands free rest. Once you have done a few you will be looking for them every few feet while you look at the next moves.
Learn not to grip hard on holds all the time, it pumps you quickly.
Don't know if you drive but if you do, can you remember holding the steering wheel tight at first and getting arm ache, it the same thing.
When on your routes, specially when on a top rope and finding you are gripping, see if you can stay on with much less force. People are seen hanging on when all they often need is one hand just keeping them on or in balance.
Try it, you will soon find that you can do much more and still feel able to carry on.
At the wall, find a corner you can bridge on and see if you can get a position for a hands free rest. Once you have done a few you will be looking for them every few feet while you look at the next moves.
In reply to jojo30:
How much do you go climbing? Climbing lots indoors and out and with lots of different people (male and female, at different levels of ability and experience) has worked for me to progress at a rate I'm happy with - I'll have been climbing 2 years in April. Keep doing it - I think we all just progress at different rates, but mixing in other exercise helps too I think. No such thing as a typical climber for us girls - or for guys! Most important - enjoy it
How much do you go climbing? Climbing lots indoors and out and with lots of different people (male and female, at different levels of ability and experience) has worked for me to progress at a rate I'm happy with - I'll have been climbing 2 years in April. Keep doing it - I think we all just progress at different rates, but mixing in other exercise helps too I think. No such thing as a typical climber for us girls - or for guys! Most important - enjoy it
In reply to jojo30:
I think a key thing for me was to actually make sure that I led more routes. So rather than occasionally leading an easy route, I started making sure that I led EVERY time I went climbing, even if it was just one route. Don't feel apologetic for having YOUR turn! It is fair that you get to lead an equal number of routes to your partner.
Also - rather than trying to think whether or not I could climb a route, I would give myself a back-out option and say to myself - "well - I'll give it a go, and if I don't like it, I can always come back down".
If you find that you are getting pumped on HVDs, then this is most certainly to do with your head, rather than your body. If you are scared, as Sutty said, you tense all the muscles in your body, rather than relaxing.
They key thing there is to simply make sure that you keep on climbing as much as you can - it will improve but it does just take time.
Good luck!
I think a key thing for me was to actually make sure that I led more routes. So rather than occasionally leading an easy route, I started making sure that I led EVERY time I went climbing, even if it was just one route. Don't feel apologetic for having YOUR turn! It is fair that you get to lead an equal number of routes to your partner.
Also - rather than trying to think whether or not I could climb a route, I would give myself a back-out option and say to myself - "well - I'll give it a go, and if I don't like it, I can always come back down".
If you find that you are getting pumped on HVDs, then this is most certainly to do with your head, rather than your body. If you are scared, as Sutty said, you tense all the muscles in your body, rather than relaxing.
They key thing there is to simply make sure that you keep on climbing as much as you can - it will improve but it does just take time.
Good luck!
In reply to jojo30:
A lot of indoor walls hold adult improver sessions (the works has one) Its a good chance to meet people climbing the same grade and get some basic instruction.
Just keep on trying, the more you climb the more you will improve. Go out, have fun and occasionally you suprise yourself when it all comes together.
A lot of indoor walls hold adult improver sessions (the works has one) Its a good chance to meet people climbing the same grade and get some basic instruction.
Just keep on trying, the more you climb the more you will improve. Go out, have fun and occasionally you suprise yourself when it all comes together.
In reply to jojo30:
I got a bit stuck climbing Severe's, i could happily climb them all, no fear or worries but put me on a HS and i fell apart a few years ago.
I started doing some more bouldering last year and then started leading a few MVS and VS routes and found them fine, its all in the head. Try doing some bouldering- i dont boulder very well just V1 but it has really helped.
Also i had a think about my winter climbing and how i am happy soloing easier stuff or being a long way above gear and that put the distances in trad gear in context, rather than putting in every bit of gear possible i just put it in when i need it or when its bomber.
Hope this helps a little, totally understand your issue!
I got a bit stuck climbing Severe's, i could happily climb them all, no fear or worries but put me on a HS and i fell apart a few years ago.
I started doing some more bouldering last year and then started leading a few MVS and VS routes and found them fine, its all in the head. Try doing some bouldering- i dont boulder very well just V1 but it has really helped.
Also i had a think about my winter climbing and how i am happy soloing easier stuff or being a long way above gear and that put the distances in trad gear in context, rather than putting in every bit of gear possible i just put it in when i need it or when its bomber.
Hope this helps a little, totally understand your issue!
In reply to Offwidth:
he's right though - overgripping is something I suspect a lot of us (not just women) do, and it does knacker you!
he's right though - overgripping is something I suspect a lot of us (not just women) do, and it does knacker you!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
"Girl climbers after advice and thoughts from other girls" .........
nothing to do with gender?
"Girl climbers after advice and thoughts from other girls" .........
nothing to do with gender?
In reply to Tall Clare:
Women can over grip, and when you gasp in pain they think you like it and grip it even harder!
To the OP: Don't know why the thread's been hijacked by TC with her filth, but in response to your query you can't get out of it with the "I'm just a girl" argument. I'm sure every bloke on here has been burned-off by a girl at the crag and wall, so there's no excuse there. You need to look at technique and training. Get "Self-Coached Climber" and Neil Gresham's DVD.
> (In reply to Offwidth)
>
> he's right though - overgripping is something I suspect a lot of us (not just women) do, and it does knacker you!
>
> he's right though - overgripping is something I suspect a lot of us (not just women) do, and it does knacker you!
Women can over grip, and when you gasp in pain they think you like it and grip it even harder!
To the OP: Don't know why the thread's been hijacked by TC with her filth, but in response to your query you can't get out of it with the "I'm just a girl" argument. I'm sure every bloke on here has been burned-off by a girl at the crag and wall, so there's no excuse there. You need to look at technique and training. Get "Self-Coached Climber" and Neil Gresham's DVD.
In reply to Offwidth:
That might be what she was asking for, but she was wrong.
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
>
> "Girl climbers after advice and thoughts from other girls" .........
>
> nothing to do with gender?
>
> "Girl climbers after advice and thoughts from other girls" .........
>
> nothing to do with gender?
That might be what she was asking for, but she was wrong.
In reply to Dizz:
I go climbing at the mo outdoors once a week weather permitting and Indoors try to go once a week, I am also studying around work and so time is a factor. I do get told its the milage as much as anything and I hope once the evenings change and study stops that I can get out longer.
I go climbing at the mo outdoors once a week weather permitting and Indoors try to go once a week, I am also studying around work and so time is a factor. I do get told its the milage as much as anything and I hope once the evenings change and study stops that I can get out longer.
In reply to staceyjg: Thanks I will hunt out that DVD after a few of you have suggested it!
In reply to Offwidth:
>look forward to responses if guys have advice thats great too
Read the OP.;-P
>look forward to responses if guys have advice thats great too
Read the OP.;-P
In reply to jojo30:
Thanks guys for all your comments I am quite overwhelmed by the response. I agree its not a gender issue, I think it is just most of the people I climb with are guys and I just wanted to see what other girls thought. But I equally value boy comments too.
I do climb with the boyf a lot, I guess it is easy to say get your gear lets go. I do belong to a club but most of them are about my grade too and I think I may be more into the climbing than the pub than they are.
I have been chatting to one of the girls who is on harder grades and we have made plans to get together this weekend.
As for the technique I often here from below "use those feet!!!!" I guess I am venturing out of the plod up grades which have allowed me to learn gear placement into the more technical grades where i need to learn feet placement and trust them.
Thanks guys for all your comments I am quite overwhelmed by the response. I agree its not a gender issue, I think it is just most of the people I climb with are guys and I just wanted to see what other girls thought. But I equally value boy comments too.
I do climb with the boyf a lot, I guess it is easy to say get your gear lets go. I do belong to a club but most of them are about my grade too and I think I may be more into the climbing than the pub than they are.
I have been chatting to one of the girls who is on harder grades and we have made plans to get together this weekend.
As for the technique I often here from below "use those feet!!!!" I guess I am venturing out of the plod up grades which have allowed me to learn gear placement into the more technical grades where i need to learn feet placement and trust them.
In reply to wayno265:
Aw nothing wrong with a bit of filth at times lol.
I have self coached climber, and everyone is saying I should get Neil Greshams so I'll have a look now online for that.
You sound like you may need to share a bad crag/gal experience? This page is my group therapy but your welcome to high jack my therapy session if it helps
Aw nothing wrong with a bit of filth at times lol.
I have self coached climber, and everyone is saying I should get Neil Greshams so I'll have a look now online for that.
You sound like you may need to share a bad crag/gal experience? This page is my group therapy but your welcome to high jack my therapy session if it helps
In reply to jojo30: No, I don't need therapy, at least not for girls being better at climbing than me! Good luck to 'em!
In reply to jojo30:
I had similar problems to you when I was climbing about severe. It wasn't easy overcoming the barrier, I tried harder routes and had to rest on gear alot before I got the hang of proper trad leading. If anything, being a girl has driven me, I don't really know any other girls who can lead the same grades I can which feels great!
Climb as much as possible with as many different people and you'll soon improve. Also leading should be exciting so enjoy the fact that it's a bit scary!
x
I had similar problems to you when I was climbing about severe. It wasn't easy overcoming the barrier, I tried harder routes and had to rest on gear alot before I got the hang of proper trad leading. If anything, being a girl has driven me, I don't really know any other girls who can lead the same grades I can which feels great!
Climb as much as possible with as many different people and you'll soon improve. Also leading should be exciting so enjoy the fact that it's a bit scary!
x
In reply to jojo30:
we all hit a wall/plateau in climbing from time to time.
but male/female it doesnt make a difference imo
i know girls who climb harder than me and i know guys who cant climb as hard as me and vice versa.
just keep at it and get more experience.
consider types of route:slab/overhang short/long pumpy/delicate
we all hit a wall/plateau in climbing from time to time.
but male/female it doesnt make a difference imo
i know girls who climb harder than me and i know guys who cant climb as hard as me and vice versa.
just keep at it and get more experience.
consider types of route:slab/overhang short/long pumpy/delicate
In reply to BeccaSnowden:
Hi Becca you are totally right oddly I love leading outdoors and love placing gear. I would choose trad over sport and indoors any day and like hand jamming and stuff like that just sometimes I just don't feel I have that push in my legs to stand up. I have been trying indoors to focus on climbing with only feet and one hand placements and I can do it until I get outdoors.
I refuse to give up thats for sure lol.
Hi Becca you are totally right oddly I love leading outdoors and love placing gear. I would choose trad over sport and indoors any day and like hand jamming and stuff like that just sometimes I just don't feel I have that push in my legs to stand up. I have been trying indoors to focus on climbing with only feet and one hand placements and I can do it until I get outdoors.
I refuse to give up thats for sure lol.
In reply to ian clarke:
You're totally right and I think I forget that, posting this message has certainly helped and I think if I remember half the feedback I have had next time I think I want to give up it will hopefully give me that mental push.
When I stop and think what I have achieved it is way beyond that first time I climbed indoors.
You're totally right and I think I forget that, posting this message has certainly helped and I think if I remember half the feedback I have had next time I think I want to give up it will hopefully give me that mental push.
When I stop and think what I have achieved it is way beyond that first time I climbed indoors.
In reply to jojo30:
>I just don't feel I have that push in my legs to stand up.
Well you can get up stairs can't you? Try doing it in slow motion, then two at a time slow motion, step on a chair the same. Do it with both legs and see how it feels.
If you can do it on a chair really slowly you will know you have the power, and it is all in the mind. It is really hard for most people, but will see you up most slabs, that need careful movement on small holds.
Doing it on a table with a hand on someones shoulders is the hardest, but do that slow and you can do any rockover there is.
>I just don't feel I have that push in my legs to stand up.
Well you can get up stairs can't you? Try doing it in slow motion, then two at a time slow motion, step on a chair the same. Do it with both legs and see how it feels.
If you can do it on a chair really slowly you will know you have the power, and it is all in the mind. It is really hard for most people, but will see you up most slabs, that need careful movement on small holds.
Doing it on a table with a hand on someones shoulders is the hardest, but do that slow and you can do any rockover there is.
In reply to jojo30:
Okay I'm not a girl, but reaching a plateau is something that all climbers come across. The trick is to identify (honestly) what is holding you back.
To be honest, at the grades you're climbing, it's not really likely to be strength or stamina that's holding you back. It's much more likely to be a combination of fear (from lack of experience), and poor technique.
By all means watch some training DVDs, but in reality the best way to improve is just to climb more - ideally with people who are just a little bit better than you (so you can learn from them), and especially girls. (Girls climb differently to boys - us boys can cheat our way past having rubbish technique by being graceless oafs who happen to have bigger muscles!)
Also try to climb as much variety as possible. Most people are better at one style of climbing than another, or prefer one rock type over another, and so stick to that style or rock. But variety is the spice of life, and frequently the technique and experience gained by branching out a little may well help you push through a plateau in your 'normal' conditions.
Okay I'm not a girl, but reaching a plateau is something that all climbers come across. The trick is to identify (honestly) what is holding you back.
To be honest, at the grades you're climbing, it's not really likely to be strength or stamina that's holding you back. It's much more likely to be a combination of fear (from lack of experience), and poor technique.
By all means watch some training DVDs, but in reality the best way to improve is just to climb more - ideally with people who are just a little bit better than you (so you can learn from them), and especially girls. (Girls climb differently to boys - us boys can cheat our way past having rubbish technique by being graceless oafs who happen to have bigger muscles!)
Also try to climb as much variety as possible. Most people are better at one style of climbing than another, or prefer one rock type over another, and so stick to that style or rock. But variety is the spice of life, and frequently the technique and experience gained by branching out a little may well help you push through a plateau in your 'normal' conditions.
In reply to jojo30:
Hmm I could be climbing tables and stairs this weekend then lol
I think if I am honest it's fear of the unknown move and technique like you said. I think the rock I climb on is varied to date but it's remembering if I am on limestone the moves I need are prob diff to when I'm on granite but when I am on a route it goes out of my head. I think I've just reminded myself of school exams I can revise for weeks walk into an exam and go blank.
On that note I think it's fair to say I need a brain that functions not strong legs lol.
Hmm I could be climbing tables and stairs this weekend then lol
I think if I am honest it's fear of the unknown move and technique like you said. I think the rock I climb on is varied to date but it's remembering if I am on limestone the moves I need are prob diff to when I'm on granite but when I am on a route it goes out of my head. I think I've just reminded myself of school exams I can revise for weeks walk into an exam and go blank.
On that note I think it's fair to say I need a brain that functions not strong legs lol.
In reply to jojo30: My last regular climbing partner was a girl climbing very much better than me. I'd known her since she was worse than me many years before. There was no ego involved, she was climbing better so mostly she led. One climb in question I led after she had failed, she cried, but it was really partly down to some insect bites she'd had, however a man would not have had that sort of emotional reaction.
I never had any problem climbing with women, in fact I climbed with them about as equally often as men. But only one was consistently better, and I was getting old by then (but so was she).
My point is that it shouldn't make any difference what the sex of a climber is, both can learn from each other, and either can be the more proficient.
I never had any problem climbing with women, in fact I climbed with them about as equally often as men. But only one was consistently better, and I was getting old by then (but so was she).
My point is that it shouldn't make any difference what the sex of a climber is, both can learn from each other, and either can be the more proficient.
In reply to jojo30:
So it sounds like you have decent technique and you're aware of what you are meant to be doing, until you get in a stressful situation when it all goes to pot?
Sounds entirely normal. In a state of anxiety your brain reverts to the movement patterning it is most sure of, and unfortunately in most situations this can mean reverting to climbing like a beginner.
The short answer is practice. Get lots and lots of movement practice in a low stress environment (eg. the bouldering wall, on a top rope, easy trad mileage well within your grade, whatever) so that when you are stressed those movements feel more natural. We are talking LOTS of mileage - eg. stints where you do easy long circular traverses for 30 minutes or so, concentrating on maintaining good technique to ingrain the movement.
There are lots of books that specifically address this - you already have the Self Coached Climber, re-read chapter 6 on movement learning especially the section on 'the stages of motor learning', page 115. Alternatively the Arno Ilgner books (The Rock Warrior's Way, Espresso Lessons) are great if you can deal with a slightly self help-y style.
If you need some inspiration, watch some of the world cup comp climbers. Often they look like they are totally cruising right up until they fall off. Climbing well right up to your physical limit is a skill that is developed through practice but it is really necessary for comps when getting one move higher can make the difference between winning and losing.
eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3xRYaLFNts&feature=related
So it sounds like you have decent technique and you're aware of what you are meant to be doing, until you get in a stressful situation when it all goes to pot?
Sounds entirely normal. In a state of anxiety your brain reverts to the movement patterning it is most sure of, and unfortunately in most situations this can mean reverting to climbing like a beginner.
The short answer is practice. Get lots and lots of movement practice in a low stress environment (eg. the bouldering wall, on a top rope, easy trad mileage well within your grade, whatever) so that when you are stressed those movements feel more natural. We are talking LOTS of mileage - eg. stints where you do easy long circular traverses for 30 minutes or so, concentrating on maintaining good technique to ingrain the movement.
There are lots of books that specifically address this - you already have the Self Coached Climber, re-read chapter 6 on movement learning especially the section on 'the stages of motor learning', page 115. Alternatively the Arno Ilgner books (The Rock Warrior's Way, Espresso Lessons) are great if you can deal with a slightly self help-y style.
If you need some inspiration, watch some of the world cup comp climbers. Often they look like they are totally cruising right up until they fall off. Climbing well right up to your physical limit is a skill that is developed through practice but it is really necessary for comps when getting one move higher can make the difference between winning and losing.
eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3xRYaLFNts&feature=related
In reply to jojo30:
what plexiglass nick is talking about here is building up muscle memory. Musicians do it a lot. You repetetively train particular movements in climbing (or passages of music) until your body can do it automatically without having to conciously think about it. Then when you get into a stressful situation eg a hard route or a 'performance - in music terms' you are less likely to revert back to what nick called climbing like a beginner.
It is a well recognised technique in many fields.
what plexiglass nick is talking about here is building up muscle memory. Musicians do it a lot. You repetetively train particular movements in climbing (or passages of music) until your body can do it automatically without having to conciously think about it. Then when you get into a stressful situation eg a hard route or a 'performance - in music terms' you are less likely to revert back to what nick called climbing like a beginner.
It is a well recognised technique in many fields.
In reply to Pauline:
Do you remember me getting you to loosen your grip and get a hands off rest on a route at Brimham? Made things a bit easier didn't it?
Do you remember me getting you to loosen your grip and get a hands off rest on a route at Brimham? Made things a bit easier didn't it?
In reply to jojo30:
Thanks for those tips I have been wondering about doing things I find hard and repeating. I must say when I was in Spain I got my partner to clip me into the 1st clip on a 6a to partice smearing, fingers work and jumping for a move and it was way above my grade of normal climbing but I eventually did it with ease. So your right about muscle memory. I think I have the pieces of the puzzle with technique I just need to start applying and trusting myself more.
I
Thanks for those tips I have been wondering about doing things I find hard and repeating. I must say when I was in Spain I got my partner to clip me into the 1st clip on a 6a to partice smearing, fingers work and jumping for a move and it was way above my grade of normal climbing but I eventually did it with ease. So your right about muscle memory. I think I have the pieces of the puzzle with technique I just need to start applying and trusting myself more.
I
In reply to jojo30: If possible I would avoid jumping for a move. It can lead to injury. Instead, think about what else you can do to reach the hold; any intermediary holds, anywhere for your feet to go higher?
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
In reply to jojo30:
I find climbing with people who are better than me but of a similar height helps me push myself. Often if someone is taller it gives me an excuse!
Realising when to quit and move on also helps some climbs just won't suit you.
Most of all keep at it
I find climbing with people who are better than me but of a similar height helps me push myself. Often if someone is taller it gives me an excuse!
Realising when to quit and move on also helps some climbs just won't suit you.
Most of all keep at it
In reply to jojo30:
Start with genuine desire + hard work:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2648
(Article partly written taking into account discussion with several female friends)
Start with genuine desire + hard work:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2648
(Article partly written taking into account discussion with several female friends)
In reply to BeccaSnowden:
Words of advice from a woman climber who's burned me off at a crag!
> (In reply to jojo30)
>
> I had similar problems to you when I was climbing about severe. It wasn't easy overcoming the barrier, I tried harder routes and had to rest on gear alot before I got the hang of proper trad leading. If anything, being a girl has driven me, I don't really know any other girls who can lead the same grades I can which feels great!
> Climb as much as possible with as many different people and you'll soon improve. Also leading should be exciting so enjoy the fact that it's a bit scary!
> x
>
> I had similar problems to you when I was climbing about severe. It wasn't easy overcoming the barrier, I tried harder routes and had to rest on gear alot before I got the hang of proper trad leading. If anything, being a girl has driven me, I don't really know any other girls who can lead the same grades I can which feels great!
> Climb as much as possible with as many different people and you'll soon improve. Also leading should be exciting so enjoy the fact that it's a bit scary!
> x
Words of advice from a woman climber who's burned me off at a crag!
In reply to sutty:
It certainly did!
> (In reply to Pauline)
>
> Do you remember me getting you to loosen your grip and get a hands off rest on a route at Brimham? Made things a bit easier didn't it?
>
> Do you remember me getting you to loosen your grip and get a hands off rest on a route at Brimham? Made things a bit easier didn't it?
It certainly did!
In reply to jojo30:
I'm a girl, and I was stuck at a plateau for ages, and I'm now at a slightly different plateau!
I've been climbing more frequently indoors recently and that has really helped, just getting the miles in and practicing moves. However, for me the biggest help that doesn't really get mentioned much is improving the strength of my legs and core. Squats, situps, leg raises, stretches. You can do all these in the comfort of your own home without feeling intimidated by buff climbers staring at you. I also do a bit of running and yoga now and again. I still haven't got my head sorted, but being able to trust my legs more just makes everything else easier. Finger strength has never been an issue for me - it's everything else!
I'm a girl, and I was stuck at a plateau for ages, and I'm now at a slightly different plateau!
I've been climbing more frequently indoors recently and that has really helped, just getting the miles in and practicing moves. However, for me the biggest help that doesn't really get mentioned much is improving the strength of my legs and core. Squats, situps, leg raises, stretches. You can do all these in the comfort of your own home without feeling intimidated by buff climbers staring at you. I also do a bit of running and yoga now and again. I still haven't got my head sorted, but being able to trust my legs more just makes everything else easier. Finger strength has never been an issue for me - it's everything else!
In reply to jojo30:
My wife and a couple of her friends found this course to be just what they needed, a mixture of technique and mind over matter.
http://www.smartclimbing.co.uk/
My wife and a couple of her friends found this course to be just what they needed, a mixture of technique and mind over matter.
http://www.smartclimbing.co.uk/
In reply to jojo30:
(not a girl, nor play one on tv)
In addition, I'd also recommend Dave Macleod's book "9 out of 10 climbers make the same mistakes." Lots of good advice for what to do when you feel stuck.
> I have self coached climber, and everyone is saying I should get Neil Greshams so I'll have a look now online for that.
(not a girl, nor play one on tv)
In addition, I'd also recommend Dave Macleod's book "9 out of 10 climbers make the same mistakes." Lots of good advice for what to do when you feel stuck.
In reply to jojo30:
Hey.
I have only been climbing a year myself and feel the same.
For a little while I got stuck in a little rut, and didnt feel like I was progressing. My other half is a very good climber and have always climbed with him and feel that is always good to climb with someone who climbs at a higher grade than you as allows you to push yourself. I took a fall just recently and didnt think it knocked my confidence but found I was avoiding leading climbs. However due to weather and climbing indoors more, I have been pushing myself and climbing above my grade and as a result found that it has really improved my climbing, when I went back to lead at easier grade found it alote eaiser.
So it may be worth thinking about.
Helen
Hey.
I have only been climbing a year myself and feel the same.
For a little while I got stuck in a little rut, and didnt feel like I was progressing. My other half is a very good climber and have always climbed with him and feel that is always good to climb with someone who climbs at a higher grade than you as allows you to push yourself. I took a fall just recently and didnt think it knocked my confidence but found I was avoiding leading climbs. However due to weather and climbing indoors more, I have been pushing myself and climbing above my grade and as a result found that it has really improved my climbing, when I went back to lead at easier grade found it alote eaiser.
So it may be worth thinking about.
Helen
In reply to jojo30:
As others have said, at these grades it's unlikely that you are being limited by lack of strength, power or stamina, unless you are very weak indeed. It's more likely to be poor technique and head issues. Seconding harder routes should help with practising technique in safety and should also given you the confidence to lead easier routes. However it's important not to second stuff that's too hard for you as that will be a waste of time - if something is too hard, you will just flail around and burn yourself out. There's only one way to find out but I suspect that you would want to be seconding routes somewhere around the VS mark, though you might also consider doing slabby routes at HVS - E1 (for example grit slabs) as they rely on technique rather than strength, power and endurance.
As others have said, at these grades it's unlikely that you are being limited by lack of strength, power or stamina, unless you are very weak indeed. It's more likely to be poor technique and head issues. Seconding harder routes should help with practising technique in safety and should also given you the confidence to lead easier routes. However it's important not to second stuff that's too hard for you as that will be a waste of time - if something is too hard, you will just flail around and burn yourself out. There's only one way to find out but I suspect that you would want to be seconding routes somewhere around the VS mark, though you might also consider doing slabby routes at HVS - E1 (for example grit slabs) as they rely on technique rather than strength, power and endurance.
In reply to jojo30:
just read a couple of the psts so apologies if I am repeating others.
I think you will find the most gains if you work on technique to begin with. I'm not that strong (can't do a pull up) and I climb at an ok ish level. I know I am at the point where strength would help me move forward but I think you can get quite far mainly on good technique. i.e. for me outdoors = 6c+ repoint and 6b/E1 onsight.
just read a couple of the psts so apologies if I am repeating others.
I think you will find the most gains if you work on technique to begin with. I'm not that strong (can't do a pull up) and I climb at an ok ish level. I know I am at the point where strength would help me move forward but I think you can get quite far mainly on good technique. i.e. for me outdoors = 6c+ repoint and 6b/E1 onsight.
In reply to Misha:
"However it's important not to second stuff that's too hard for you as that will be a waste of time - if something is too hard, you will just flail around and burn yourself out. There's only one way to find out but I suspect that you would want to be seconding routes somewhere around the VS mark, though you might also consider doing slabby routes at HVS - E1 (for example grit slabs) as they rely on technique rather than strength, power and endurance."
To Misha and the OP:
Sorry Misha but I disagree. How do you expect her to climb harder moves if she doesn't try them? It doesn't matter if you fall off on second. Just keep trying the moves. You might fall off seconding every move but what is wrong with that? You will ultimately learn small chunks of information about how to move on rock.
Along with trying lots of seconding of harder routes of various styles I'd recommend some bouldering with some better climbers. Find yourself a boulder problem which (you think) is abit too hard for you. Pick one which is a grade or two harder than you've bouldered before.
Have a look at the holds and try and figure out how to climb it. Have a go. If you fall off it doesn't matter. After you fall off you need to try and realise why you fell off - i.e. was your right foot too high or low. Try the move again in a subtly different way and try to remember how it felt and why. Dave Macleod gives some great advice here on this.
http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html
And here's some specifically for females.
http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/
Then if you are struggling to learn to use the holds then watch one of the better climbers climb it. Watch how they place their feet accurately on the holds and swing to generate momentum. Try and copy it. If you fail to manage it then try again and get them to help you understand what you're doing wrong.
I hope I've been helpful. Dave Macleod's blog has some great information.
Happy Climbing
"However it's important not to second stuff that's too hard for you as that will be a waste of time - if something is too hard, you will just flail around and burn yourself out. There's only one way to find out but I suspect that you would want to be seconding routes somewhere around the VS mark, though you might also consider doing slabby routes at HVS - E1 (for example grit slabs) as they rely on technique rather than strength, power and endurance."
To Misha and the OP:
Sorry Misha but I disagree. How do you expect her to climb harder moves if she doesn't try them? It doesn't matter if you fall off on second. Just keep trying the moves. You might fall off seconding every move but what is wrong with that? You will ultimately learn small chunks of information about how to move on rock.
Along with trying lots of seconding of harder routes of various styles I'd recommend some bouldering with some better climbers. Find yourself a boulder problem which (you think) is abit too hard for you. Pick one which is a grade or two harder than you've bouldered before.
Have a look at the holds and try and figure out how to climb it. Have a go. If you fall off it doesn't matter. After you fall off you need to try and realise why you fell off - i.e. was your right foot too high or low. Try the move again in a subtly different way and try to remember how it felt and why. Dave Macleod gives some great advice here on this.
http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html
And here's some specifically for females.
http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/
Then if you are struggling to learn to use the holds then watch one of the better climbers climb it. Watch how they place their feet accurately on the holds and swing to generate momentum. Try and copy it. If you fail to manage it then try again and get them to help you understand what you're doing wrong.
I hope I've been helpful. Dave Macleod's blog has some great information.
Happy Climbing
In reply to James Oswald:
Thanks James and everyone else. I went indoors on Sunday and climbed with a girl who is about a VS/HVS but willing to try harder stuff and a guy who is an E grade climber. Both were really helpful and with a combination of watching her climb routes first and being talked through technique it was a massive help and I tried working on technique rock overs etc.
I have also been trying a bit more bouldering just to focus on feet technique. I have climbed one handed indoors a few times and that's been good for balance and feet work.I also agree I have to try harder routes and often am seconding them when I climb outdoors.
I think I have the pieces of information in my head from comments here, reading, watching vids and getting out on rock. I am just at the stage where I need to start applying when I am climbing but without over thinking it and dithering and getting pumped.
I'll check out those link too. Thanks
Thanks James and everyone else. I went indoors on Sunday and climbed with a girl who is about a VS/HVS but willing to try harder stuff and a guy who is an E grade climber. Both were really helpful and with a combination of watching her climb routes first and being talked through technique it was a massive help and I tried working on technique rock overs etc.
I have also been trying a bit more bouldering just to focus on feet technique. I have climbed one handed indoors a few times and that's been good for balance and feet work.I also agree I have to try harder routes and often am seconding them when I climb outdoors.
I think I have the pieces of information in my head from comments here, reading, watching vids and getting out on rock. I am just at the stage where I need to start applying when I am climbing but without over thinking it and dithering and getting pumped.
I'll check out those link too. Thanks
In reply to jojo30:
Have you worked through the movement exercises in SCC or just skimmed it? There's potentially a *big* step up in performance to be had by sharpening up your technique using those exercises.
The other thing that'll make a huge difference is the team you climb with. If nobody you climb with climbs beyond say HVS then it's a big mental leap for you to pass them and keep progressing E1, E2, E3... Most people need at least some support/competition from their peers to make the progress feel 'normal'. Likewise if the only person you know who climbs 'hard' is totally ripped and trains 5days/week it's easy to become demoralised, to convince yourself you're doing the best you can but you'll never be 'that' good so you'll just stick where you are. Remembering that person started somewhere too is never much help solace because they're years ahead of you, you need to set yourself realistic small goals and work towards them bit by bit so you have at each stage a reward for the work you put in. Eventually you'll find those small steps get you a long way!
Perhaps the most valuable use you can make of an experienced friend's time at the wall is to have them help you work through a carefully chosen, very hard for you problem in real depth. You can by carefully refining each move to suit you* go from being unable to do moves to linking the whole thing in a session. It's a *really* valuable lesson in what can be achieved through learning alone rather than increasing fitness/strength.
*something that can be greatly accelerated with good advice/coaching
I'd be tempted to avoid the gimicky one handed stuff to begin with. Get the basics right first, choosing the right hold for a given move, the right edge to put on it, which way to face, how to start the move, how to end it in balance, what tricks can be employed to make it easier...
All the technique in the world wont however make up for inexperience when it comes to leading especially outdoors. *Knowing* you can make the move is a big boost but you still need to gradually build experience actually doing the moves on lead, putting your skills to use. There's no substitute for familiarity.
jk
> I have self coached climber, and everyone is saying I should get Neil Greshams so I'll have a look now online for that.
Have you worked through the movement exercises in SCC or just skimmed it? There's potentially a *big* step up in performance to be had by sharpening up your technique using those exercises.
The other thing that'll make a huge difference is the team you climb with. If nobody you climb with climbs beyond say HVS then it's a big mental leap for you to pass them and keep progressing E1, E2, E3... Most people need at least some support/competition from their peers to make the progress feel 'normal'. Likewise if the only person you know who climbs 'hard' is totally ripped and trains 5days/week it's easy to become demoralised, to convince yourself you're doing the best you can but you'll never be 'that' good so you'll just stick where you are. Remembering that person started somewhere too is never much help solace because they're years ahead of you, you need to set yourself realistic small goals and work towards them bit by bit so you have at each stage a reward for the work you put in. Eventually you'll find those small steps get you a long way!
Perhaps the most valuable use you can make of an experienced friend's time at the wall is to have them help you work through a carefully chosen, very hard for you problem in real depth. You can by carefully refining each move to suit you* go from being unable to do moves to linking the whole thing in a session. It's a *really* valuable lesson in what can be achieved through learning alone rather than increasing fitness/strength.
*something that can be greatly accelerated with good advice/coaching
I'd be tempted to avoid the gimicky one handed stuff to begin with. Get the basics right first, choosing the right hold for a given move, the right edge to put on it, which way to face, how to start the move, how to end it in balance, what tricks can be employed to make it easier...
All the technique in the world wont however make up for inexperience when it comes to leading especially outdoors. *Knowing* you can make the move is a big boost but you still need to gradually build experience actually doing the moves on lead, putting your skills to use. There's no substitute for familiarity.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
In reponse to if I have skimmed SSC no, It has only recently been purchased and I am currently undertaking the activities to improve technique. I have also since got a copy of Neil G's DVD and I must say while great and will be an on going ref tool to watch, unlike SCC it lacks the excersis that SCC features.
My boyf has climbed up to E grades in the past and has years of experience and I am starting to try and climb more, with like you say experienced climbers who I can observe and learn from. When I got into climbing it was with a club that formed for possibly more indoor and social reasons and I have progressed with people who know as little as I do. I am now beginning a journey on my own and trying to climb with people I can learn from as I love climbing and desire to progress and challenge myself and luckily these people know what stage I am at too. However I think your comment
"Perhaps the most valuable use you can make of an experienced friend's time at the wall is to have them help you work through a carefully chosen, very hard for you problem in real depth" and I will certainly try this out
In reponse to if I have skimmed SSC no, It has only recently been purchased and I am currently undertaking the activities to improve technique. I have also since got a copy of Neil G's DVD and I must say while great and will be an on going ref tool to watch, unlike SCC it lacks the excersis that SCC features.
My boyf has climbed up to E grades in the past and has years of experience and I am starting to try and climb more, with like you say experienced climbers who I can observe and learn from. When I got into climbing it was with a club that formed for possibly more indoor and social reasons and I have progressed with people who know as little as I do. I am now beginning a journey on my own and trying to climb with people I can learn from as I love climbing and desire to progress and challenge myself and luckily these people know what stage I am at too. However I think your comment
"Perhaps the most valuable use you can make of an experienced friend's time at the wall is to have them help you work through a carefully chosen, very hard for you problem in real depth" and I will certainly try this out
In reply to James Oswald:
It's good to try seconding routes which are a few grades harder than what you would lead but there's little point in trying something that is so hard that you won't get anywhere. If you can actually do the moves, that's fine but if you can't really do the moves (either because you're not strong enough or because you can't figure then out) there's no point burning yourself out and getting demotivated. Of course a bit of trial and error is required to determine what is and isn't within your ability.
It's different with bouldering because you should be with other people and shouldn't be far off the ground, so it should be possible to get advice and someone could demonstrate the moves to you. That's not usually possible when seconding because the belayer sitting at the top often won't have a good view of what the second is doing and certainly won't be able to demonstrate the moves. You will have seen them climbing but, unless you have exceptional visual memory, won't have remembered how they did every single move or even the crux moves.
It's good to try seconding routes which are a few grades harder than what you would lead but there's little point in trying something that is so hard that you won't get anywhere. If you can actually do the moves, that's fine but if you can't really do the moves (either because you're not strong enough or because you can't figure then out) there's no point burning yourself out and getting demotivated. Of course a bit of trial and error is required to determine what is and isn't within your ability.
It's different with bouldering because you should be with other people and shouldn't be far off the ground, so it should be possible to get advice and someone could demonstrate the moves to you. That's not usually possible when seconding because the belayer sitting at the top often won't have a good view of what the second is doing and certainly won't be able to demonstrate the moves. You will have seen them climbing but, unless you have exceptional visual memory, won't have remembered how they did every single move or even the crux moves.
In reply to plexiglass_nick:
That Akiyo Noguchi is awesome! If you compare her reading of the moves to the others there is no (visible) uncertainty, she just reads the crux one way and then does it where the other two struggle back and forth. Really excellent technique.
> (In reply to jojo30)
> > If you need some inspiration, watch some of the world cup comp climbers. Often they look like they are totally cruising right up until they fall off.
> eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3xRYaLFNts&feature=related
> > If you need some inspiration, watch some of the world cup comp climbers. Often they look like they are totally cruising right up until they fall off.
> eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3xRYaLFNts&feature=related
That Akiyo Noguchi is awesome! If you compare her reading of the moves to the others there is no (visible) uncertainty, she just reads the crux one way and then does it where the other two struggle back and forth. Really excellent technique.
In reply to Misha:
"It's good to try seconding routes which are a few grades harder than what you would lead but there's little point in trying something that is so hard that you won't get anywhere. If you can actually do the moves, that's fine but if you can't really do the moves (either because you're not strong enough or because you can't figure then out) there's no point burning yourself out and getting demotivated. Of course a bit of trial and error is required to determine what is and isn't within your ability."
I kind of agree with you here, it is easier to learn how to climb really hard (for you) moves when bouldering rather than hanging from a rope.
But, For example, I lead around HVS and I think that attempting to second E5s would teach me a hell of a lot about how to move on rock. Yes, I'd fall off lots of the moves, but I'd be able to try them again and learn about the movements.
I also think that working out the best sequence to use for a particular move is a vital skill and you learn this by trying moves yourself and experimenting with your own movement.That isn't to say that someone else can't teach you the skill but being told the sequence by someone else doesn't teach you anything and isn't as helpful when you get on harder moves and can't apply what you've previously learnt.
I think seconding really hard for you routes can be made easier by pulling on gear/ the rope (pulling on one of the half ropes going down to you) and of course - having a patient and friendly belayer!
James
"It's good to try seconding routes which are a few grades harder than what you would lead but there's little point in trying something that is so hard that you won't get anywhere. If you can actually do the moves, that's fine but if you can't really do the moves (either because you're not strong enough or because you can't figure then out) there's no point burning yourself out and getting demotivated. Of course a bit of trial and error is required to determine what is and isn't within your ability."
I kind of agree with you here, it is easier to learn how to climb really hard (for you) moves when bouldering rather than hanging from a rope.
But, For example, I lead around HVS and I think that attempting to second E5s would teach me a hell of a lot about how to move on rock. Yes, I'd fall off lots of the moves, but I'd be able to try them again and learn about the movements.
I also think that working out the best sequence to use for a particular move is a vital skill and you learn this by trying moves yourself and experimenting with your own movement.That isn't to say that someone else can't teach you the skill but being told the sequence by someone else doesn't teach you anything and isn't as helpful when you get on harder moves and can't apply what you've previously learnt.
I think seconding really hard for you routes can be made easier by pulling on gear/ the rope (pulling on one of the half ropes going down to you) and of course - having a patient and friendly belayer!
James
Practice, practice, practice...and yes, use your feet! I've done 2 outdoor courses in spain which massively improved my confidence and ability. Plus using my feet helped me climb as hard as a muscle bound american guy on one of my spanish trips, who relied on strength...then wondered why he got pumped so quickly!
Also, I find some guys want to push the grades...I ignore the shouts to "man up"...fastest way to an injury!!
Also, I find some guys want to push the grades...I ignore the shouts to "man up"...fastest way to an injury!!
In reply to Fiend:
I have been meaning to reply and say thanks for sending me the link to your article. I found it really interesting and thought provoking. It has also made me question my relationship with climbing. I think this could be an article I refer to along my journey to see how my answers change as I develop and improve.
I have been meaning to reply and say thanks for sending me the link to your article. I found it really interesting and thought provoking. It has also made me question my relationship with climbing. I think this could be an article I refer to along my journey to see how my answers change as I develop and improve.
In reply to jojo30:
Probably the best climber I ever climbed -or am likely to climb- with was a woman. Keep going.
Probably the best climber I ever climbed -or am likely to climb- with was a woman. Keep going.
In reply to jojo30:
i used to guide and instruct across the broad spectum of humanity, including school and college kids and observed that girls were nearly always better climbers at first as they climbed smarter to make up (assumed) less upper body strength.
up to a point the girls kicked ass, then something happened where the guys clicked on and started thinking, and lots of girls talked themselves out of being strong enough.
now, sure, maybe some guys are strong, but i honestly reckon most FIT girls and guys are just as strong, just that some girls dont recognize it. just arent making the connection of physical prowess to intention.
(im talking climbing strong, not barbells).
also, when you see chicks that do connect its awesome - smart, elegant and focussed in a way a lot of males will never find.
so im wondering if part of your thing is not just developing strength, but focussing it with structural integrity (sometimes called 'core') and ploymetric power (sometimes called 'fast twitch').
and i gotta say im a huge advocate of girls climbing - the whole scene is simply better for having more ladies out there taking the edge off the masculine bullshit and ego that can get in the way. i got 2 girls and they both climb a bit and it really fills the gaps in dads male ego, reminds me to think a bit more.
hope you work things out.
i used to guide and instruct across the broad spectum of humanity, including school and college kids and observed that girls were nearly always better climbers at first as they climbed smarter to make up (assumed) less upper body strength.
up to a point the girls kicked ass, then something happened where the guys clicked on and started thinking, and lots of girls talked themselves out of being strong enough.
now, sure, maybe some guys are strong, but i honestly reckon most FIT girls and guys are just as strong, just that some girls dont recognize it. just arent making the connection of physical prowess to intention.
(im talking climbing strong, not barbells).
also, when you see chicks that do connect its awesome - smart, elegant and focussed in a way a lot of males will never find.
so im wondering if part of your thing is not just developing strength, but focussing it with structural integrity (sometimes called 'core') and ploymetric power (sometimes called 'fast twitch').
and i gotta say im a huge advocate of girls climbing - the whole scene is simply better for having more ladies out there taking the edge off the masculine bullshit and ego that can get in the way. i got 2 girls and they both climb a bit and it really fills the gaps in dads male ego, reminds me to think a bit more.
hope you work things out.
In reply to jojo30:
Thanks, that's a nice comment, glad you found it interesting - and that it raised questions.
Thanks, that's a nice comment, glad you found it interesting - and that it raised questions.
In reply to jojo30:
Read this book, good for overcoming the mind games:
http://warriorsway.com/
It's had top reviews I might add
Read this book, good for overcoming the mind games:
http://warriorsway.com/
It's had top reviews I might add
In reply to atlantis:
Thanks for this post. Someone gave me a copy of this and I am currently reading. I must say it has been helpful so far and again given me food for thought
Thanks for this post. Someone gave me a copy of this and I am currently reading. I must say it has been helpful so far and again given me food for thought
In reply to jojo30:
I have a copy too and admit I have yet to read it, but having interacted with the author of the book and those attending his clinics, I am convinced it's a really good one to help get over the mind games.
I have a copy too and admit I have yet to read it, but having interacted with the author of the book and those attending his clinics, I am convinced it's a really good one to help get over the mind games.
In reply to atlantis:
Oh ok, that sounds intersting how did you interact with the author if you don't mind me asking? Was it a workshop?
Oh ok, that sounds intersting how did you interact with the author if you don't mind me asking? Was it a workshop?
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