UKC

A good friend and I are going to stannage for 10 days over easter. campsite booked, short walk to stannage...

We are on the quest to hit an E1 by the end of the ten days.

We both have the technical grade to do it, but neather of us are that great with trad, due tio lax of time to really try. My friends technically a better climber then I, but i'm far more stupid.

I can do VS without any problem, my friend HS.

On this note, any sugestions?
any recommended good e1's in the area? (i refuse to hog climbs so will proabbly all be onsights or done really early or late)

Food?

Anyone climbing over easter want to join us?

Add silly comment below

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: Flying Butress Direct seems quite reasonable, although it has been downgraded to HVS in some guidebooks.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: hello, ive recently gone my first grit E1. i did milsons minions and its faily easy climbing though the start is a little run out. the crux however i managed to protect with 3 good sized cams so could be a good shout.

ill be down north less for the week as from a week monday. if your about and notice a blonde haired lad with a dark haired girl in a dirty white fiat punto then give us a shout, be good to meet up with others.

looking at heading to millstone for a day, loads to do there at HVS and E1

In reply to stvredmond:

cool, i'll look out for you at the campsite. we are going on thursday

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: wicked, yea from the monday onwards we will be around. if you fancy hooking up and sampling millstone delights with us then get in touch and we can car share or something and see if we can egg each other on for the elusive E1 . have a gooden

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: I reckon a competent VS leader should be able to get up some of the following - IMO, they're piss for the grade:

- Millsom's Minion. Bog standard HVS 5a (my first E1, it felt intense at the time, but it's fine)

- Easter Rib. After a low crux, a bit of bold climbing, which tickles 5a.

- Mossison's Redoubt. A 5b move which you don't want to fall off (but you're not committed until you've done it), then a soft HVS romp.

- Kirkus Corner. A well protected 5b move, then easy (4b/c) unprotected padding.

The fact that Flying Buttress Direct is traditionally HVS does not make it any easier than these. It's miles harder (unless you really need to have gear at all times). But it'd be a great tick if you get it.

For harder, better protected challenges, I recommend:

- Left Unconquerable (but this does take a bit more skill than the above, people get pumped out at the pre-crux half-rest)
- Nuke the Midges (bit of a bold start, then good challenging climbing with excellent gear)
- Living at the Speed (great moves on great rock)

I recommend you don't miss out on Right Hand Tower (HVS) at the left end of the crag. One of many superb HVSs, essential grit.

Enjoy.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'd go for Living At The Speed before Easter Rib.

Another couple at Stanage
The Link
Mississippi Variant Direct
Sithee
Pegasus Rib (really HVS)

In reply to lowersharpnose:

thanks for everyones sugestions. keep them coming

10 days in the peaks sound great

10 days sounds good to me , wish i could , but just got bk from wales..

I did easter rib as my first e1 ,was bold and a bit run out at the crux.

good luck and donf forget to take a cam so you can post your photos..

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Chee Tor has some nice E1's that need traffic.

In reply to AndyE9:


Have only soloed this route (dozens of times) and consequently wasn't looking for gear placements. But... as you say, it did seem quite a bit run-out at the crux. Fine for you, but I wouldn't recommend it as a first E1. Similarly with Morrison's Redoubt (also only soloed). What if the aspirant wobbles? Could be messy.

[To the OP] Left Unconquerable. And do not continue above the first crack unless it's filled with bomber gear. A very talented climber whom I knew fell off this a long time ago and broke his back. (He made a full recovery and went on to become one of the best climbers of his generation.)

Modern gear or not, don't underestimate these routes. Be safe out there.

Good luck.

Mick

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Who the f*ck in their right mind travels up to the Peak district to climb limestone?

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Mississippi Buttress Direct? Pretty good gear! Move quick!

In reply to iforwms:

It was upgraded from the original grade which was HVS (which it is)

Anniversary Arete is a decent E1 with good holds and good gear (take some small-med friends) and it's better than the battered classics on the popular end that aren't really E1.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

How about doing some HVSs first it is a big jump from VS to E1

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

On a Wing and Prayer E1 5c - boulder problem start (good), easier thereafter.

Exit Stage Left - hard start then easier.

Namenlos - "Delicate and mildly bold" says Rockfax

In reply to Pylon King:

The day I travelled to the peak and did Aplomb in Chee Dale ranks as one of the best days I've had in the Peak!

In reply to Christheclimber: yer totally i want to spend the first few days nailing out some hs,vs, to really get into it, then hvs. e1 is the final target.

question is, 10 days, how many climbs? by day ten, i should be totally tired

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:
If you wander over to burbage there's Long Tall Sally.
It was my first E1, its really nice and well protected, its just got a bit of a technical crux.

In reply to katiep:

My first grit E1 too - really nice, technical, not too run out and not a thugfest

In reply to Pylon King:

Quite a few people. There are some fantastic Peak Limestone routes.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Stanage will be deserted. Everyone's gone to Font!

In reply to lowersharpnose: I did Living at the Speed again the other day and found the move to stand up really hard, but brilliant. Might have done it a bit wrong (don't remember it being hard).

But I find Easter Rib really easy. When I first led it, I was new to E1 and thought it would be fine at HVS. I did it after Good Friday (one of my favourite HVSs - highly recommended) and found it much easier.

And as for Exit Stage Left - personally, I like a route with a line. Arbitrary fillers are for those who've done everything else. Personally I'd rather just do a decent route again.

Namenlos has rightly been downgraded.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Another vote for Left Unconquerable, it was the first E1 I tried (and fell off). From the ground it is quite obvious where the good places to rest and put gear in are (so you can concentrate on climbing between them instead of faffing around trying to put more gear in and getting tired). Just below the crux, at the half rest mentioned above, you can stuff in a couple of cams to protect the crux nicely. Then after the crux it is a jug romp to the top.

I thought Namenlos was HVS, and I'm sure I've seen it at that grade in a guide? it's a fun route but you might as well do an E1 that isn't going to be downgraded.

In reply to JimR:

I know there are ive done quite a few but they dont compare to anything on Stanage.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:
Shouldn't be a problem having little trad experience. Half the grit climbs are 10m with one piece of gear any way

In reply to iforwms:

I don't agree with this, I think FBD is a very specialised technique and certainly not HVS except to climbers very familiar with grit. My option, though not on Stanage, would be Long Tall Sally at Burbage, though if you have good hand strength Left Unconquerable is an option, short crux from good pro going for a monster jug.

In reply to Al Evans: The beta for it is getting so good with lines on colour photos and gear hints it will be HVS again soon. However, taking on that roof onsight not knowing where to go from the lip or what gear goes in the slot or above is full on E1, not even close to HVS. Its way easier only when you know how.

PS the polished slot can spit out the key cam. I've seen it and known of a few other occurences.

In reply to Pylon King:

Those who might want something more than overated little routes?

In reply to Pylon King:

You must have picked some cr*p ones then!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Philistine.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

It seemed an appropriate response!

In reply to Offwidth:
What beta - surely its just grab, pull and roll?

Also - what 'slot' - I remember a small horizontal break?

In reply to robw007:

"surely its just grab, pull and roll?" yeh right..
as for the slot it might be a not unreasonable description for a short section of horizontal break terminated at both ends.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

I don't see why E1 is elusive.

If you want to bag an E1, just keep trying to climb one after the other until one of them goes!

If you meant playing a waiting game until you can nice and cleanly onsight the first one you try, just spend the first nine days bouldering thuggy grit problems then waltz up Left Unconquerable at the end with your approach shoes on!

In reply to Cragrat Rich:

I think if you're currently doing VS then E1 could well be elusive?

In reply to Offwidth:
My points are that its not a particularly subtle sequence and so I'm not sure what beta you would need.

Secondly I cant remember thinking you needed to place the friend in one particular spot for it to work - however it was a long time ago so maybe the horizontal has closed a little at each end since then .... ?

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I reckon alot of VS leaders could second some E1's.
It's not that big a gap if you want it badly enough.

If the OP has an ambition to climb an E1 then he needs to train harder and get cracking on some harder routes. It'll happen in no time.

It's probably a false belief system he has which is holding him back most.
ie :

a. E1 is too hard for me
b. I'm not good/strong enough for E1
or
c. I'm only a VS/HVS leader

In reply to robw007:

Surely the most sensible thing to do onsight, is be strong enough to put two cams in the break so you can fully commit to what is (onsight somewhere near your limit anyway) pretty heavy territory above.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: I'd recommend Kirkus's Corner rather than Flying Buttress Direct. Good gear at the crux and not as intimidating as FBD. Left Unconquerable is definitely a must, but lead Right Unconquerable first. Esso Extra might be worth a try; I seem to remember it was straightforward and just required a confident approach.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

nope, all really brilliant classic 3 star routes in leafy valleys, just like you get in many other parts of the country and unlike a classic bit of grit high up with stunning views and sunsets, unlike anywhere else in the country.

In reply to Pylon King:

grit is high-up? I feel a pulmonary oedema coming on

Malham, Craig Arthur, most mountain crags etc etc

In reply to robw007:

Warning the thread contains beta for those not wanting it.

Even as a reasonably seasoned HVS leader you don't cross many intimidating roofs like that, but being positive you might expect that once you reach the obvious big holds on the lip things ease and the way is obvious. That's not the case: in my case I stretched to the hold in the slot, carefully matched, cut loose, using the momentum heel hooked high and right, placed gear in the slot, pulled up, moved left a few moves using heel hooks, pulled up again and awkwardly pulled into a lay-down rest.. all a tad more than grab pull and roll. Indeed, if you pull up right you can end up a little stranded on sloping holds (still E1 but a bit harder). The gear size in the slot is not fully obvious until you are committed, where you may really struggle to return to the slab. However if you know the slot is good, what size gear it takes and what to do next the whole committment thing is far less serious (and the rack is far smaller and you can move faster!) than onsight. Maybe you've just forgotten what its like to lead HVS at your limit.

In reply to Offwidth: You are 100% correct.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

No-one seems to have mentioned this but i think it's common knowledge that the step to HVS from VS is much harder than the step from HVS to E1.

So I would tick off a loa of classic solid HVS' and then you should find the E1s relatively straight forward I reckon.

My only grit E1 to date is Millsoms and that was steady so shld be a good choice if you have a selection of cams...

In reply to Wilbur:

Agree with Wilbur. Go crazy on the HVSs - there's quite a few softies at Stanage, Centre Stage and Lancashire Wall for starters.

For E1 left unconquorable is an obvious choice. Safe if you muff it up, provided you place good gear. You've no excuse not to. My mate didn't and decked on rope stretch from the crux, the muppet. Quality of gear placement is essential on grit (as all rock types) so spend some days tuning this in. Anniversary arete is also nice and safe.

Also, OP, if I were heading to the Peak for 10 days, I'd try not to spend them all at Stanage! Save Stanage for midweek when less busy. Check out Froggatt, Bamford, Millstone etc.

In reply to Wilbur:

Not for me. I led a few HS/VSs, then quickly enough an HVS - there are loads of softies out there - then an E1. Neither were big jumps because the grades overlap by such a huge margin.


I would say there's no need to get solid at HVS before doing soft E1s, as they're so much easier than even 'fairly stout' HVSs, let alone top-of-the-grade HVSs.

As you say, if you just want a number, get on Millsom's. Barely 5b for one move, well protected, then a bit of an easy run-out. Not objectively any different to an HVS, you could say?

In reply to Bulls Crack:


compared to the limestone in the Peak i mean

I think if you're keen on getting that E1, you need to choose routes that play to your strengths.

I've climbed a few E2s, but they tend to be slabs, with run out sections. Put me on a thuggy HVS and I struggle (I'm working on this!)

E1 in the time you've got, should be more than achievable, just don't rush it.

In reply to Wilbur:

Having only led one grit E1, are you really in a position to make that assertion?

Personally, I wouldn't say that it's common knowledge... I wouldn't even agree with it!

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

There are stacks of good E1s at Stanage (and stacks of threads on 'ere discussing them). However, there are even more *** HVSs, and if you haven't done them, do those first (The Scoop, Congo Corner, FBD, MBD, Right Hand Tower, Right Unconquerable, Terrazza Crack etc etc ad infinitum). The usual issue with the "first grit E1" is the choice between "easy & bold" or "safe & hard". Sadly, there aren't really any "easy & safe" E1s at Stanage.

Easter Rib really is a path, but it's essentially a solo, and not one for throwing a wobbly on.

Left Unconquerable is a safe, butch fight.

Try a few of the harder HVSs on for size first. Right Hand Tower is excellent value with the hard moves at the top just going on for a few moves more than you had hoped. Terrazza Crack looks short and easy.. but it isn't. The Scoop is utter quality, quintessential grit experience - and for added effect, leave your cams in the bag. Actually, don't. Congo Corner, again one of the best routes on grit - and you can check out The Link next door which goes at E1, sharing most of the climbing.

Oh, and there's always The Vice, whatever grade it's now at..

T.W.> any suggestions?

Try doing some grit bouldering beforehand so you really learn to trust your feet. The new BMC Stanage guide has two or three bouldering circuits at V0-2 which should be about right. That way you will learn to trust your feet. The problem with just doing mileage on VS is that you may get used to having positive handholds where you can hold on even if your feet slip off: often not the case on the delicate-type of E1.

T.W.> recommended good e1's in the area?
I suggest
Delicate:
- Namenlos
- Millsom's Minion
- Hearsay Crack
- Three Pebble Slab (Froggatt)
Thuggy but well-protected:
- L.Unconquerable (helps if you can jam)
- Strapiombante at Froggatt (hard but well-protected crux at the top)

You need to decide which style suits you best. If you struggle to keep a cool and technical head when above gear, it might be wise to go for the thuggy but well-protected option to save hurting yourself. If you're good at slabs/smearing but weak, then the delicate stuff's the obvious choice.


Make sure you have your weetabix! Seriously though, nibble all through the day rather than scoffing a massive lunch in a sitting. Lunch arrives just when head and body are getting warmed up, and stopping for too long and eating too much often loses a good window when you are warmed up but still have energy for pulling.

Lastly, have a rest day or two in your ten days. Go for a gentle walk or something. I'd do something like 3 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 2 on. Of course the weather may have a big say in this anyhow ... but days off are needed to feel strong and motivated for pushing yourself.

Good luck on the quest, and remember the climbs will still be there next year so climb safe!

In reply to Cragrat Rich:

I've only led 1 x grit E1 but I have led quite a few E1s as well as HVS' on other rock types! IMO, and as i've said, VS to HVS is MUCH harder than the step from HVS to E1. You'd think the reasons are obvious i.e. loads of HVS' feel as hard as loads of E1s. VS just feels loads easier in most cases...

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Although I fully understand the desire to get on an E1, you should bare in mind that the East peak district has many many classic HVS routes but very few classic E1s (in fact I can't think of any).

If you do want to do an E1 at stanage, try bouldering for half an hour on the lone boulder and then head on up to "living at the speed". It will feel easy after the bouldering.

In reply to Ackbar:
the East peak district has many many classic HVS routes but very few classic E1s (in fact I can't think of any).

How odd. You wouldn't describe Moyers Buttress, Left Unconquerable or Tippler as 'classic E1s' then?

And they're just the classics of the classics. Long Tall Sally, Embankments 3 and 4, Desparation, L'Horla, the list is the same length as for any grade around the VS-E2 mark.

In reply to Wilbur:


I never liked VS and went onto HVS with relief!

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Are you really going to climb at Stanage for 10 days?

I'd be bored witless!

In reply to Ackbar:

"East peak district has ... very few classic E1s (in fact I can't think of any)."

...and you a student at Sheffield n'all!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Why bother with any other Gritstone crag when you have Stanage?

In reply to Pylon King:

I'd want a bit of variety - I'd get bored of that view too

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

For goodness sake.
Stanage is a brilliant crag. Just get out there and try some routes at HVS and when you feel ready try an E1 that takes your fancy you can spot well protected routes from the ground and via the guidebook (usually).

There is too much beta in some of these threads.
Climbing is supposed to be about adventure just go and enjoy, you will find your own way into the Extreme grades in time.

In reply to Cragrat Rich:

I agree with you!


Chris

In reply to Andy Stephenson:

Traditional HVS

In reply to Tim.W.Climber: probably not what you are after but .......Buy the bmc burbage guide and do Bilbery cake at burb north - it's E1 in the guide but about severe.

In reply to Chris H: Easy VS more like.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

Good but not too hard E1's in the area, Blizzard Ridge direct at Rivelin is easy E1 with good gear if you hunt around, Morrison's Redoubt at stanage is easy E1 too, there's a way of making the crux easier, it's less obvious but easier.

Living at the speed is a good shout, good gear and a rest before the crux.

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

If you're 6'3" I can thoroughly reccomend Fizz, E1 5c at Bamford...

This move was not 5c for me, but the slots are cool and weird and the slopey top out is awesome.

My first E1, done a good few since.

In reply to Jon Stewart: If you are talking classic on a British scale then I doubt that there are any classic E1s in the East Peaks. In comparison, Goliaths Groove, Great North Road, Croton's Oil and Suicide Wall are really British Classics.

Having said that, Great Arete (E1) at Wharncliffe is very good.

In reply to Offwidth:

Ok, my profile is a few years out of date but changed now.

In reply to Ackbar: No, I'm afraid I still think you're talking utter nonsense. Those routes are classic grit routes but they are still just grit routes, which whether they're VS or E1 or E4 are still grit routes: short outcrop climbs.

When you lead classic HVSs (which are harder than many E1s and E2s), they're a great experiences for you because of the grade you climb at, not because they're 'British classics'. Also, there is a tradition of grading relatively big, well protected juggy/jammy routes HVS which because they're such an effort, they stick in the mind. It doesn't make them 'British classics' just grit HVS toughies.

Plus, I really hate Goliath's Groove for 2 reasons: I fell off it years ago and hurt myself, and cause it's a repulsive polished offwidth that isn't fun to climb in any way, just an appalling dreary grind. Croton Oil is just a decent grit route, not a patch on loads of E1s including:

Desparation
Dark Continent
Left Unconquerable

Plus all the brilliant little routes like Irrepressible Urge, Bear Hunter, Lamebrain, Wrong Hand Route, etc.

Do Tippler, L'Horla, and Moyer's Buttress and then tell me that there's soomething different about these classic grit routes to the HVSs. I assure you, there isn't. They're just graded 1 notch harder.

In reply to Pylon King:

Same as who the f*ck travels to the Peak to climb grit? I certainly wouldn't bother when you can go to High Tor, Beeston Tor, Cheedale, Stoney Middleton....what the f are you on about?!...

In reply to Tim.W.Climber:

So, did you manage an E1?

In reply to HappyTrundler: Why climb on grit when you can go to Stoney?

I would suggest that the answer to this question is: because you're not completely insane (except if it's really sweaty and the midges are out...).

I know Peak limestone can be OK or even good (I went to Beeston for the first time lately, and loved it), but you really are missing out on something very special if you never experience grit at its best. I'm talking about cool weather, no ropes, maybe a pad or two and a beautiful quiet crag to yourself or you and your mates. Obviously, I prefer it when it's quiet, so if the philistines stay away, that's fine by me.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
so if the philistines stay away, that's fine by me.

Fine by me too...King David