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Wanting to attempt Kilnsey Main OH this spring and wanted to know about what gear is in situ and what to take.
Anyone done it lately and can you place pegs in it???
Anyone done it lately and can you place pegs in it???
In reply to simon lambert:
Its now very much a free route so you should not place pegs as it will alter the nature of the route for free climbing. It's equiped with bolts for free climbing so it should be easy to get across with a stick clip but if you're not using one you'll need to make some pretty tough free moves to get between bolts. There may be other bits and pieces to clip in between.
Its now very much a free route so you should not place pegs as it will alter the nature of the route for free climbing. It's equiped with bolts for free climbing so it should be easy to get across with a stick clip but if you're not using one you'll need to make some pretty tough free moves to get between bolts. There may be other bits and pieces to clip in between.
In reply to Tyler: The bolts are all in great condition, and the dodgy tat/insitu draws were removed last summer....
You could place cams in several slots between the bolts, but you can probably aid between the bolts anyway...they are fairly close together..
To reiterate Tyler's comment, do NOT place pegs, please.
You could place cams in several slots between the bolts, but you can probably aid between the bolts anyway...they are fairly close together..
To reiterate Tyler's comment, do NOT place pegs, please.
In reply to simon lambert:
You don't need any gear for the main roof as it's fully equipped. You may need a few wires on the first pitch though a clip stick is a good idea to stretch between bolts.
ALC
You don't need any gear for the main roof as it's fully equipped. You may need a few wires on the first pitch though a clip stick is a good idea to stretch between bolts.
ALC
In reply to simon lambert: Not done it lately but when I did it a few years ago all the gear was in place - I doubt that has changed. Every second piece is a bolt and all the others are threads or pegs. You might need a set of nuts for the first pitch but that's about it, other than krabs and extenders... it a cracking route and is a great way to spend an afternoon... once you've done that, go and do Malham main... again, pretty much a clip up, but a whole different kettle of fish...
In reply to mike kann:
And when you've done that you can do Goredale Main which is another step up and requires some proper aid. Mind you I wouldn't do it if there any tourists below.
Geoff.
And when you've done that you can do Goredale Main which is another step up and requires some proper aid. Mind you I wouldn't do it if there any tourists below.
Geoff.
In reply to mike kann: Thanks for your info mike. I was hoping to get a reply from someone who had actually done the route. I question the comment made by someone that it is a free route now. I imagine that after a free ascent decades ago that it's still climbed as an aid route by the majority.
In reply to simon lambert:
Same question for Regent Street at Millstone: I know it gets the odd free ascent but what size pegs should I take?
Same question for Regent Street at Millstone: I know it gets the odd free ascent but what size pegs should I take?
In reply to Postmanpat: Not really the same is it though. Mandela has had to date about 3 ascents. Regent street probably see 3 a day.
In reply to mike kann: Are you serious?
It had at the very least 4 ascents last year..... It would get stacks more if it wasn't such a logistical nightmare and wet for much of the year....
It had at the very least 4 ascents last year..... It would get stacks more if it wasn't such a logistical nightmare and wet for much of the year....
In reply to mike kann:
Surely it's the principle? Once a route has been freed the rock shouldn't be damaged by new peg insertions?
> (In reply to Postmanpat) Not really the same is it though. Mandela has had to date about 3 ascents. Regent street probably see 3 a day.
Surely it's the principle? Once a route has been freed the rock shouldn't be damaged by new peg insertions?
1
In reply to Postmanpat: Is this the Directissima we are talking about? Mandella?
I have a slight input in to the history of this, Ron Fawcett led the first pitch, on sight and on situ gear. At the belay we had an argument about whether it was HVS or E1 (my vote was for E1) I think today it is E3, or some blundered down version which is a sport route.
When we got to the top of the first pitch, Ron looked out along the roof and said
"You know Al, this might go free"
He proceeded to do a couple of moves that became Mandella, then came back. I am convinced that if current ethics and the bolts had been in, Ron would have done Mandella in 1975. Though I refused point blank to second it. I offered to film an attempt which he was considering on situ gear.
Point is, there are many routes still on aid in the UK where it can be practised, no need to risk damaging a great free route by aiding it.
I have a slight input in to the history of this, Ron Fawcett led the first pitch, on sight and on situ gear. At the belay we had an argument about whether it was HVS or E1 (my vote was for E1) I think today it is E3, or some blundered down version which is a sport route.
When we got to the top of the first pitch, Ron looked out along the roof and said
"You know Al, this might go free"
He proceeded to do a couple of moves that became Mandella, then came back. I am convinced that if current ethics and the bolts had been in, Ron would have done Mandella in 1975. Though I refused point blank to second it. I offered to film an attempt which he was considering on situ gear.
Point is, there are many routes still on aid in the UK where it can be practised, no need to risk damaging a great free route by aiding it.
In reply to Postmanpat: Have all the pegs been removed from the roof? Last time I checked they were all insitu and all you needed was a set of quickdraws and krabs to climb it. You're not even scuffing holds because it's a roof. How is aiding one of the greatest old aid climbs bad form? Even if it's been climbed free a few times in the last year (I'll admit I didn't realise), why would it bother you?
In reply to mike kann:
I agree with you.If it's simply a case of clipping in situ gear or using nuts then no problem but the OP was prepared to place new gear.
> (In reply to Postmanpat) (I'll admit I didn't realise), why would it bother you?
I agree with you.If it's simply a case of clipping in situ gear or using nuts then no problem but the OP was prepared to place new gear.
In reply to Postmanpat: That's simply a case of him not knowing that it's a free route aswell and that it goes on clean aid and no pegs are required...
In reply to Chris Craggs: Mandela is 8a+.
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to simon lambert:
I saw two people climb it last year, both of them were free ascents. One of them was even by a woman!
I saw two people climb it last year, both of them were free ascents. One of them was even by a woman!
In reply to mike kann: Absolutely no issue with aiding it, as long as pegs aren't placed as they are likely to effect the slots used to climb it free. As people have said, it is fully bolted, with bolts fairly close together so shouldn't need to place much if any gear until the finish...which is quite a distance from the last bolt to the belay...
I seriously doubt this would have been done in 1975 even with a willing belayer, even though its 8a+ not 8b+, and the first few moves you say Ron tried are about British 5b, the crux is about 2/3rds of the way along the traverse!
I seriously doubt this would have been done in 1975 even with a willing belayer, even though its 8a+ not 8b+, and the first few moves you say Ron tried are about British 5b, the crux is about 2/3rds of the way along the traverse!
In reply to Tyler:
Now you're trolling!
> (In reply to simon lambert)
>
> One of them was even by a woman!
>
> One of them was even by a woman!
Now you're trolling!
1
In reply to andy farnell:
I have deleted my comment (though I guess at 8a+ it still stands). I checked the UKC database before I posted too - bugger!
Chris
> (In reply to Chris Craggs) Mandela is 8a+.
>
> Andy F
>
> Andy F
I have deleted my comment (though I guess at 8a+ it still stands). I checked the UKC database before I posted too - bugger!
Chris
In reply to north country boy: As I said before, if it's in the same state as before, every second placement is a bolt, with pegs inbetween - aiding it is relatively simple...
In reply to Al Evans:
Probably unlikely to have been the 70's, since I believe its now settled at 8a+ and the first 8a's in Yorkshire weren't climbed until the early 80s (wasn't Ron's Zoolook the first). Agree that it ended up being less difficult that might have been imagined (didn't Hard Rock say something like 'Its uncompromising nature will mean that it never sufferer the ritual cleansing of the free climber').
> (In reply to Postmanpat) Is this the Directissima we are talking about? Mandella?
> "You know Al, this might go free"
> He proceeded to do a couple of moves that became Mandella, then came back. I am convinced that if current ethics and the bolts had been in, Ron would have done Mandella in 1975. Though I refused point blank to second it. I offered to film an attempt which he was considering on situ gear.
> "You know Al, this might go free"
> He proceeded to do a couple of moves that became Mandella, then came back. I am convinced that if current ethics and the bolts had been in, Ron would have done Mandella in 1975. Though I refused point blank to second it. I offered to film an attempt which he was considering on situ gear.
Probably unlikely to have been the 70's, since I believe its now settled at 8a+ and the first 8a's in Yorkshire weren't climbed until the early 80s (wasn't Ron's Zoolook the first). Agree that it ended up being less difficult that might have been imagined (didn't Hard Rock say something like 'Its uncompromising nature will mean that it never sufferer the ritual cleansing of the free climber').
In reply to simon lambert:
Si, tried this a couple of years ago, but backed off part way across the roof due to failing light (it was some random day in January I think). There was lots of in-situ tat at the time, but even if it's been tidied up, it shouldn't need a hammer IMO, the bottom half certainly doesn't, just a standard lead rack as Mike and others have said.
Si, tried this a couple of years ago, but backed off part way across the roof due to failing light (it was some random day in January I think). There was lots of in-situ tat at the time, but even if it's been tidied up, it shouldn't need a hammer IMO, the bottom half certainly doesn't, just a standard lead rack as Mike and others have said.
In reply to Ian Patterson:
My thoughts are that you may have been surprised what Ron would have been capable of in the 70`s given later ethics!
> (In reply to Al Evans)
> [...]
>
> Probably unlikely to have been the 70's, since I believe its now settled at 8a+ and the first 8a's in Yorkshire weren't climbed until the early 80s (wasn't Ron's Zoolook the first). Agree that it ended up being less difficult that might have been imagined (didn't Hard Rock say something like 'Its uncompromising nature will mean that it never sufferer the ritual cleansing of the free climber').
> [...]
>
> Probably unlikely to have been the 70's, since I believe its now settled at 8a+ and the first 8a's in Yorkshire weren't climbed until the early 80s (wasn't Ron's Zoolook the first). Agree that it ended up being less difficult that might have been imagined (didn't Hard Rock say something like 'Its uncompromising nature will mean that it never sufferer the ritual cleansing of the free climber').
My thoughts are that you may have been surprised what Ron would have been capable of in the 70`s given later ethics!
In reply to Al Evans: Just for info I've done the first pitch many times as a warm up for other routes and this before the new staples were placed. I mentioned pegs to get a response. I guess I was wanting to find out if you needed certain cams for pockets and stuff like that cos I dont want to drag my Yosemite rack out for a bit of fun one evening.
In reply to simon lambert:
Nonsense, it's very much a free route!
jk
> (In reply to mike kann) Thanks for your info mike. I was hoping to get a reply from someone who had actually done the route. I question the comment made by someone that it is a free route now. I imagine that after a free ascent decades ago that it's still climbed as an aid route by the majority.
Nonsense, it's very much a free route!
jk
In reply to jkarran: I think you'll find its a bit of both and one evening soon I intend to prove it!
In reply to simon lambert:
Simon; although I didn't look too closely at the logistics of aiding it, I would say that you'll have an easier time on the top pitch if you take a normal rack of friends and a small rack of nuts. Many of the old pegs are no longer in the pitch. It's not possible to aid from bolt-to-bolt on the top pitch without some gear; the traverse itself should be OK, but you'll need a bit of trad gear to get to the traverse (although this is very easily freed) and to get from the end of the traverse to the belay...
Simon; although I didn't look too closely at the logistics of aiding it, I would say that you'll have an easier time on the top pitch if you take a normal rack of friends and a small rack of nuts. Many of the old pegs are no longer in the pitch. It's not possible to aid from bolt-to-bolt on the top pitch without some gear; the traverse itself should be OK, but you'll need a bit of trad gear to get to the traverse (although this is very easily freed) and to get from the end of the traverse to the belay...
In reply to simon lambert:
I know this is off topic but I've found some of the comments in this thread to be rather interesting, particularly the "it's now a free climb and not an aid route" ones. (Although, FWIW, I was actually stood under Kilnsey Main OH just a couple of days ago .....)
In May 1979, 3 of us climbed Connie's Crack in Crafnant as a pure aid route. (We felt we needed some practise for climbing some routes with A1/A2 pitches in the Kaiseregebirge later that summer and, at the time, aid routes in Snowdonia were, err ... a bit thin on the ground.) The previous year Fawcett had freed Connie's Crack at E2 6a but had avoided the tension traverse by climbing above it. There were several other teams at the crag climbing Phoenix, Clonus etc and they tore into us for climbing the route on aid (etriers et al). In their opinion, as it had been climbed free, it was therefore totally wrong/highly unethical to climb it as an aid route ever again.
BTW, we climbed it entirely on in situ gear - of which there was a lot at the time - and didn't even carry pegs or a peg hammer. In other words, we did pretty much what the OP is now considering doing on Kilnsey Main ....
Dave
I know this is off topic but I've found some of the comments in this thread to be rather interesting, particularly the "it's now a free climb and not an aid route" ones. (Although, FWIW, I was actually stood under Kilnsey Main OH just a couple of days ago .....)
In May 1979, 3 of us climbed Connie's Crack in Crafnant as a pure aid route. (We felt we needed some practise for climbing some routes with A1/A2 pitches in the Kaiseregebirge later that summer and, at the time, aid routes in Snowdonia were, err ... a bit thin on the ground.) The previous year Fawcett had freed Connie's Crack at E2 6a but had avoided the tension traverse by climbing above it. There were several other teams at the crag climbing Phoenix, Clonus etc and they tore into us for climbing the route on aid (etriers et al). In their opinion, as it had been climbed free, it was therefore totally wrong/highly unethical to climb it as an aid route ever again.
BTW, we climbed it entirely on in situ gear - of which there was a lot at the time - and didn't even carry pegs or a peg hammer. In other words, we did pretty much what the OP is now considering doing on Kilnsey Main ....
Dave
In reply to Dave Williams: It'd be interesting to put these arguements to 99.9% of people who have climbed the nose. Also I'm sure there would be some super traddies who would consider the use of bolts on Mandela as aid... It's how you define your game, and as long as you're not doing any harm I can't see why people get het up about it other than for reasons of ego. It's then down to what your definition of harm is...
In reply to mike kann:
I think the Op should go and do Kilnsey main Clean. Take a rack, small cams, some hooks etc. There's loads of bolts up there but it still would be a good challenge.
Hammering would be well out of order now that it's been freed. Imagine whackinga peg in and destroying a crucial hand hold?
Try taking a hammer on The Nose.
E
I think the Op should go and do Kilnsey main Clean. Take a rack, small cams, some hooks etc. There's loads of bolts up there but it still would be a good challenge.
Hammering would be well out of order now that it's been freed. Imagine whackinga peg in and destroying a crucial hand hold?
Try taking a hammer on The Nose.
E
In reply to Enty: Of course he should do it clean - it's been clean aid for many years - the first time I did it must be nearly 15 years ago and it was clean then... pegs just slow you down and I can't see there would be any need for them in the first place... I mean the whole thing is no harder than C1+ in anycase...
In reply to Al Evans:
My thoughts are that Ron was pretty good at knowning what was possible and what was not. If he said it was doable, I'd accept it.
> (In reply to Ian Patterson)
> [...]
>
> My thoughts are that you may have been surprised what Ron would have been capable of in the 70`s
> [...]
>
> My thoughts are that you may have been surprised what Ron would have been capable of in the 70`s
My thoughts are that Ron was pretty good at knowning what was possible and what was not. If he said it was doable, I'd accept it.
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