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what is jazz

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DEvans 14 May 2011


this is a great basic way to show what jazz is and can be. a musical comunication between the musicians.

http://www.youtube.com/user/danevansdesign#p/f/18/gsBC5C5ERho

what do you think jazz is?
 Steve John B 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Not people in silly hats with silly beards! That's a happy tune anyway.

It's certainly a musical communication between the musicians, but there's much more to it than that. The "definition" section on Wikipedia is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz#Definition

But does it mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...?
 anonymouse 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
That was fun.
 David Hooper 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Its a collective sound of the soul of millions of displaced Africans.
Wonko The Sane 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> what do you think jazz is?

Self indulgent, whimsical shite.
 Yanis Nayu 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: It's a crisp, tart yet sweet apple. Highly recommended.
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to Tyroneslater:
> (In reply to DEvans)
> [...]
>
> Self indulgent, whimsical shite.

thats pop music you are thinking of.
 anonymouse 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> thats pop music you are thinking of.

From your opening post video, I can only deduce that you think jazz is like listening to a conversation between two people who think they are more interesting than they actually are and who are terribly pleased with themselves.
 Dominion 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

I like the idea in the video more than the music, I'm afraid. Not sure I would have listened to much of it on it's own, because that just doesn't apeal to me, sorry...
 Jamie Hageman 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: That's an utterly wonderful link, thanks for sharing!

To me, jazz is is the ability to improvise without having to think about what you are about to play - a sort of subconscious playing that you can only really get to when you begin to master an instrument. It's the ability to instantly play what you are feeling without planning it. I think that makes sense. That's just from my personal experience of jazz guitar anyway
 Keendan 14 May 2011
In reply to Andy_B39:

He says "swing it" but it's in straight 8s :P

I used to like Kid Ory and Jack Teagarden but after a while found them a bit crude.

Louis Armstrong managed to put some cool rhythm and different notes into it.

After a while 40s Jazz felt a bit samey and I began to like Miles Davis. It's as if he took the melody to another level where it could almost be mistaken for not being jazz at all. When you would expect a blue note, he'd play a seventh or a major second (completely normal un-jazzy notes). It sounds hot because it's not what you expect.

Maybe this reflects Jazz over the century. By the end cool jazz is whatever the standard jazz isn't.

I think the solos in this link say what I like about Miles Davis
youtube.com/watch?v=Vbpqeevkhm0&
 al123 14 May 2011
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to Dominion:
> (In reply to DEvans)
>
> I like the idea in the video more than the music, I'm afraid. Not sure I would have listened to much of it on it's own, because that just doesn't apeal to me, sorry...

it was never about the music. i just thought that people who know nothing about jazz or what it means might get an idea from this about what happens. it's listenning and responding.

the music is charlie parker and dizzy gillespie, classic and stunning jazz.

i guess the guy picked that track and players for the clear conversation type of thing that was happening between the two players. "call and response"
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to anonymouse:
> (In reply to DEvans)
> [...]
>
> From your opening post video, I can only deduce that you think jazz is like listening to a conversation between two people who think they are more interesting than they actually are and who are terribly pleased with themselves.

your on a real downer aren't you.

if you don't like jazz then you would describe it like that.

how come you feel the need to be so against a form of music that is so happy.
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to Steve John B:
> (In reply to DEvans) Not people in silly hats with silly beards! That's a happy tune anyway.
>
> It's certainly a musical communication between the musicians, but there's much more to it than that. The "definition" section on Wikipedia is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz#Definition
>
> But does it mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...?


yes it's more than that but i thought it was a good video to get the ball rolling as to what jazz is or can be. yes it can mean a thing if it ain't got the swing because swing doesn't define jazz.

DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

thats for me is always the goal. to be free within the music and the instrument. to listen and react, to speak and be spoken too. of course that doesn't mean having to make a noise, it can mean keeping quiet too.

how is the guitar going jamie? did you manage to get a new guitar yet?

dan
 DancingOnRock 14 May 2011
Jazz? It's any tune with more than three chords in it. Isn't it?
Yrmenlaf 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

Jazz is what jazz musicians play

Y.
 anonymouse 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> your on a real downer aren't you.

Yes, that's why I said the video was fun.

> how come you feel the need to be so against a form of music that is so happy.

I'm not really. I see what people see in it, I just don't care for it all that much. The whole musical conversation thing is something that arises in all sorts of live music. Jazz doesn't have a monopoly on that and it's problem is often that's all it has.

That, and one boring git too many has tried to explain to me why I should like it better.
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to anonymouse:

i'm not trying to convince you as i know that that is not possible.
it's a very differant sort of thing to alot of other music.
as has been said before and you have said it again that the conversational element is not just in jazz but in other music and i guess jazz is the music i understrand the most. i disagree that it is the only thing it has as it's so full of melody and harmony and rythems that i just don't hear in any other music. i also love the fact that it's young musicians playing with old musicians, musicians in suits playing with musicians in t'shirts which makes me trust the music and not all the guff that goes on in pop or rock.

when i first started listening to music it was pop rock and alsorts of things. it always lacked something so i moved up to jazz. maybe playing it helps.
 ezzpbee 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
I thought it was a small Honda car !
 Steve John B 14 May 2011
In reply to wobl:
> (In reply to DEvans)
> I thought it was a small Honda car !

It's weird how all the cars with jazz-related names (Honda Jazz, Suzuki Alto, Hyundai Getz) are driven by little old ladies at 35mph in a 60 zone.
 Steve John B 14 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> i also love the fact that it's young musicians playing with old musicians, musicians in suits playing with musicians in t'shirts

Yeah! Far less fakery and pretentiousness than there is in rock'n'roll. Just people who like the music.

> when i first started listening to music it was pop rock and alsorts of things. it always lacked something so i moved up to jazz.

I've always been into my music, first got into jazz when I was about 18 and I borrowed some Monk and Coltrane tapes off my bro. I never realised there was anything to "get", I just liked listening to it.

I never stopped listening to rock and pop though. Or classical. It's all good.
DEvans 14 May 2011
In reply to Steve John B:

yes man
Jazz; a musical term, one mistake is an error, two and it's jazz.

Bill Bailley; "I used to enjoy playing jazz clubs. Its reassuring to know no matter how badly I mucked up a chord or tune there would be someone in the audience, stroking their chin, thinking; "Nice".
ice.solo 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

a crucial step on the way to punk.
 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to Steve John B:
> But does it mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...?

nah...then it's Bossa Nova
 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to David Hooper:
> (In reply to DEvans) Its a collective sound of the soul of millions of displaced Africans.

That's the blues
 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
>> Self indulgent, whimsical shite.

>thats pop music you are thinking of.

nah, that's not self-indulgent, just whimsical shite
 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to TimR:
> Jazz? It's any tune with more than three chords in it. Isn't it?

...especially if they occur in the same bar
 Jon Stewart 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

Is this jazz?

youtube.com/watch?v=efU9OAaBHTs&

Definitely no communication between musicians...

(btw there is more than just programmed drums if you listen past 1 minute)
DEvans 15 May 2011
In reply to Jon Stewart:

no it's not for me. just nothing really going on. some jazz sounding cliches but thats just for the effect.

intresting though.

 Jon Stewart 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: No, not much in the actual notes I guess, but plenty in the rhythm.
 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> Is this jazz?

Play an A, then drop down to an Eb. Instantly everyone will say it's jazz, because the tritone doesn't really appear in any other music?...actually Mozart used it occasionally, so did Lizt and several others, and there enters the problem of taking one piece of music and classifying it.
 Jon Stewart 15 May 2011
In reply to Tiberius: The silly jazzy tune, while fun, isn't really the point though
 Jamie Hageman 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Guitar's going well thanks Dan. I've just finished playing a short run of shows up here in Fort William - great fun playing with a small orchestra band, and some good tunes too including a really nice bossanova that I was able to put my own touches to.
No new guitar yet, and not really in a position to be buying. I can't complain though - the ones I have got are perfectly good.
DEvans 15 May 2011
In reply to Tiberius:

jazz isn't the notes as i just consider that music. music can be played in a jazz style but that doesn't make it jazz.

DEvans 15 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman.

is there anything with you playing on youtube. would love to see or hear something.

 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> jazz isn't the notes as i just consider that music. music can be played in a jazz style but that doesn't make it jazz.

I think it's more complicated than that, which is what I was getting at really. As I said, most people hear the tritone and say jazz, without realising that it's actually used in a lot of music styles.

Same with classical though, most people think 'highbrow' music, without realising that a lot of classical music was really the 'pop' music of the day. Straus's waltz's for example. That was the disco music of the era.
 Steve John B 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Ok, while we're on the Youtube clips, try playing along with this!

youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU&
Andrew Murray 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: 'Jazz is the teacher, funk is the preacher'.

youtube.com/watch?v=y9g6ZJjt9lg&

Seriously though kids, asking 'what is jazz' is like asking 'what is music'.

 Tiberius 15 May 2011
In reply to Andrew Murray:

It's easy enough to define the central core, just difficult to come up with a definition that includes everything that is, and excludes everything that isn't
 flaneur 15 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

> what do you think jazz is?

"If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know" - Louis Armstrong

What's the differnce between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist?

A rock guitarist plays three chords in front of thousands of people, a jazz guitarist plays....

DEvans 16 May 2011
In reply to flaneur:
> (In reply to DEvans)
>
> [...]
>
> "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know" - Louis Armstrong

i know what jazz is for me. i should have asked what jazz is for you.
 Nadir khan 16 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman: , yep , would also like to hear some of your stuff, what's the jazz scene like up North ?
 Tiberius 16 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> ...i should have asked what jazz is for you.

Now that's a more interesting question.

For me at the moment, it's mainly the decendants of cool. ala the Bossa Nova of Stan Getz and the modal of Miles Davis. Mixed in with some all time classics such as Stanley Turrentine (vera cruz).

As time goes by, I probably apprecieate Parker and Dizzie more, but tbh I still don't like them. Same with Coltrane, great music, shit sound...I know, the Jazz Mafia already has a hit out on me
 Jamie Hageman 16 May 2011
In reply to nk: I recorded this as I was trying to get to grips with a new program called Mixcraft on the PC. I had (and am still having) trouble with lag - tracks that are overlaid go in and out of sync', so that I have to go through manually and try to shift them about - very time consuming and the result is often not great. I know I need a better soundcard, but can't afford it yet. I used to use Cakewalk on my old PC which I got on very well with, but apparently it doesn't work on Windows Vista. Now I'm thinking about getting a digi 8 track recorder. Anyway, not a great recording but quite fun to do. youtube.com/watch?v=baldZIorbU4&

 daveyw 16 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:
Your UKC profile says you're 32! When was that?

Seriously though- I thought it was great. Was having an awful day and about to explode. Not anymore- well chilled. Thankyou and keep up the good work.
DEvans 16 May 2011
In reply to Tiberius:

have you not tried the more modern jazz giants.

kenny garret, branford marsalis. they are the best of everything up to now. i still love all the jazz greats but the new stuff is pushing me the way the greats were pushing in there day. i love parkers weaving lines but with branford and co it's the whole group on so many levels. it makes my brain spin. plus the sound is clean and you can hear them all very well. garret too. plus there are loads more players.
maybe you prefer a slower tempo and more space in the tunes. i just want the hard stuff. the crack cocaine of jazz.
DEvans 16 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

excellent stuff man.

i think the sound is fine. i love the guitars too. what is that f hole one. very cool.

would love to hear a bit of django stuff as i will be able to pick up on your style and ideas a bit more easily. if you could knock one of those up that would be great.

if my computer skills were better i would say send it over to me and i could add some drums just for fun.

we could have a virtual UKC jazz collective.

dan
 flaneur 16 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> (In reply to flaneur)
> [...]
>
> i know what jazz is for me. i should have asked what jazz is for you.

I wasn't being entirely serious, but since you ask...

Duke Ellington: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QXUYpPa87M&feature=related
Pharaoh Saunders: youtube.com/watch?v=kmL1da8VhiE&
Miles Davis: youtube.com/watch?v=kmL1da8VhiE&
Thelonius Monk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QXUYpPa87M&feature=related
Louis Armstrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfGZB78R7uw&feature=related
Nils Petter Molvaer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcABpmtaCcw&feature=related
Cecil Taylor: youtube.com/watch?v=cP5L8tjnB6w&
Bill Evans: youtube.com/watch?v=dH3GSrCmzC8&
Lee Morgan: youtube.com/watch?v=yf1Eo-6sDIE&


I've not yet properly got Coltrane, still trying, one day perhaps...





 Steve John B 16 May 2011
In reply to flaneur: You've got a Duke where you should have a Monk!
 Steve John B 16 May 2011
In reply to Steve John B: But what a Duke! I've never really heard much of his stuff, shameful gap in my listening. Have stuck the Newport CD onto my wishlist. Thanks!
 Nadir khan 16 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman: nice one , i play in a jazz funk fusion band but we also do some latin stuff , chick corea and jobim . if I'm ever up north it would be cool to hook up and play some tunes , maybe a UKC jam session /recording .
ps love the photos
 Tiberius 16 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
>
> have you not tried the more modern jazz giants.

Not much reeli, Brecker, Bob Berg...see even the modern ones are dead now

I guess I don't have so much time to keep hunting out new stuff, especially when 90% of it is crap (not that 90% of the old stuff wasn't also crap).
 flaneur 17 May 2011
In reply to Steve John B:
> (In reply to flaneur) You've got a Duke where you should have a Monk!

Ooops! It's a cracker though, isn't it? The Paul Gonsalves solo was said to be inspired by a particularly attractive woman in the audience standing up on her own and getting down to the music

Monk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUWtrgTpcs&feature=related
Free bonus Tiny Grimes and Charlie Parker: youtube.com/watch?v=_BnFRd11sMk&
DEvans 17 May 2011
In reply to Tiberius:

20 minutes on you tube with a couple of names will find you some good stuff. just flick around.
 Jamie Hageman 17 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
> (In reply to wee jamie)
> would love to hear a bit of django stuff as i will be able to pick up on your style and ideas a bit more easily. if you could knock one of those up that would be great.

Ok, I've just recorded this. Oh dear, and I was meant to be working. Don't tell the missus I've been fannying about with the guitar again!

youtube.com/watch?v=BbDrvAYSBGY&
DEvans 17 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

thats very good.

i think the tune suits the style quite well. i can see django playing away to that ver happily.

excellent stuff. i will be listening again.

dan
 Jamie Hageman 17 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Thanks. It's a bit rough and ready, but I didn't want to get bogged down in re-takes or start adding effects, so there're a few bum notes!
DEvans 17 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman

i prefer to hear things like that.

when you have more time maybe a bigger solo?

i'm looking for some kind of editing music multi track recording thing for my PC, what would you recomend and can i get it for free on the net?




dan
 Jamie Hageman 17 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: I'm really not very experienced in recording gear, sorry. I have heard people rave about Audacity though, and that's a free download I think. I use something called Mixcraft but have a few issues with it, mainly the lag between tracks. I bought it for about £20 from Amazon a few years ago. I think my soundcard really needs replacing for it to run fault-free.
DEvans 17 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

thats helpfull though, i won't get mixicraft then.

cheers
 alexrp 19 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

Nice vid! Definitely sums up the conversation (or is it an arguement?) between the musicians very nicely. I can't answer your original question though. It's funny how it's so easy to recognise jazz, but so hard to acurately describe it.

Wee Jamie - The recordings sound really good. Unusual to see a Maccaferri with a pick guard. Who built it?
 Jamie Hageman 19 May 2011
In reply to alexrp: I renovated the guitar myself. It's a Chinese copy with a tonne of Laquer on the top, so I took it back to bare wood and french-polished it. I think the tone has developed a little since doing it, but I knew the top would be prone to dents, so added a home-made maple scratch-plate. The old tailpiece broke a while ago, so I had one made by the lovely Killy Nonis of Canterbury. Hey presto, it's a better guitar for me now and really looks the part too.
DEvans 19 May 2011
In reply to alexrp:

i thought the vid might give an insight into jazz for people who don't get whats going on and think it's all just playing what you want.
i know it's not what the whole of jazz is. when i play jazz i listen so hard to the others and respond to them that it really is like a talking having fun making jokes being serious all sorts of things.

glad you liked it.
 Jamie Hageman 19 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Hi Dan, do you have any recordings yourself I can listen to?
DEvans 19 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman

no i don't. not at the moment. i have a clip of my friends playing a bit, i might try and post that somewhere.

DEvans 19 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

youtube.com/watch?v=RsU7-qHqD8c&

here are my friends playing. it's a while back but some good brotherly cominication going on. we had collectivly bought yohann on the right the guitar so he was testing it out.
 alexrp 20 May 2011
Heh heh. Sounds like you've both got some Django in you. I love that sound. Shame I can't play that well myself. Oh well, give it another 10 years.

What do you think of this guy? I only just heard of him and I'm quite liking his style.

youtube.com/watch?v=vCnT8prUqFY&
 Fidmark 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: I've just started a Jazz Degree of all things here in leeds... And i still couldn't really tell you what jazz is
 Fidmark 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: nice videos up there too! I'm loving this at the moment

youtube.com/watch?v=fXvdU7f-q7I&
 Wee Davie 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

I liked the 'Comment te dire adieu' one. Nice.
Judging by the sound quality which is crisp as on the geetars, did you opt to add some random french chicks chatting to spice it up? ; )
 Wee Davie 20 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

That was amazing. Yes I hate you- you talented git.
Jim C 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:
For me its when I flail about wildly on an instrument and get a few notes that are on key.
 Jamie Hageman 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans: Great playing, and such a nice setting for some music. They're on a different level to my ability, but I always tell myself that as long as I am enjoying my guitar playing, not to worry about what I can't play/haven't achieved.

Tonnes of fresh snow up here at the mo - almost down to the ground in Glen Nevis, and very white! Winter's not over yet
 Tiberius 20 May 2011
In reply to DEvans:

Just found this which I though was funny:


Journalist: "Miles, can you define the jazz in 4 words"

Miles: "Louis, Amstrong, Charlie, Parker"

Journalist: "and in 4 syllables ?"

Miles: "Char, lie, Par, Ker"
DEvans 23 May 2011
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

they practice ALOT so it's not suprising they are good.

i missed the art programme you were on so am going to try and see it as i'm very intrested.

i do a lot of picture framing for artists so if you are ever looking for a new picture framer let me know.

dan

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