UKC

I'm looking for information on trail/fell running as I intend to start using it as a method of cross training.

Information that would be helpful:

1) running shoes and apparel
2) beginner do's and don't
3) technique

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have been looking at Addidas TR3 shoes, are they decent for starting out?

Owain

Off road running should be the only form of running.

Concrete is not natural!

In reply to Owain:

I appreciate that there are certain things to bear in mind with fell running, but with trail running I think that Nike have got it about right - Just Do It.

I've always worn a T-shirt and shorts, and whatever trainers I happen to have at that time with a decent bit of grip on them. If it's really wet and cold I might take an extra thin top or windproof and wear something on my legs. Part of the fun is getting stupidly wet and muddy.

In reply to Monk:

What would that be exactly?

In reply to Owain:

Well, I'm not really a fell runner as I live too far from any fells so I may not be the best person to ask. I was thinking more along the lines of route choice, not getting lost and ending up in the wrong valley, more severe weather etc.

In reply to Owain: Currently working on an article on this..but here's one we did earlier..http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2329

Technique wise there isn't that much to learn. Going down hill 'breaks off brains out' is the basic tip. Your upper body is a throttle, lean in you speed up, lean out you slow.

Don't get fustrated walking, it's normal. we all do it.

Re shoes, depends, trail starts at good forestry trails, which road shoes are fine and then blurs into fell where more pure fell shoes are suited. Without knowing what sort of terrain you run it's impossible to give too much advice. I'd go for a more generic trail shoe at first, so the TR3 willbe fine for a wide range of terrain.

Do's: Run with others, enter races, be adventurous try different routes. Enjoy.

don't: Get fustrated if you have to walk some sections of hills.

In reply to IainRUK:
But do watch where your feet are going. You'll build up enough speed on a downhill run to break bones if you trip - as I did a few weeks ago running in the Cairngorms, when I fell and broke my wrist when I put it out in front of me to protect myself. Still, the cast comes off on Tuesday, so it hasn't been too much of a problem.

In reply to tony: Not really, only on very rough ground will I watch my feet, I'm normally looking metres ahead and subconsiously that gets through to my feet placing.

I think descending is one of the most natural parts of running, very few bad descenders can improve that much. Very much an either you have it or you don't.

In reply to IainRUK:

I think I expressed it badly - I'd generally agree with you about looking ahead rather than looking at your feet. My excuses are a) I was tired and b) it was rough ground. I do usually enjoy descents.

In reply to IainRUK:

I try and look ahead when I'm shooting downhill but my eyes fog up and start watering if I go too fast. Sun glasses work in the summer but I look like a tool in the winter and can't see anything in the gloom.

Any tips?

In reply to Eric the Red:


Clear glasses? You can either get expensive models that change colour with the lighting conditions or more basic models with exchangeable lenses. I use som cheap cycling glasses that como with dark, yellow and clear lenses.

In reply to IainRUK: Nice wee article.

Any tips for the uphills. I'm awful on the uphills and trying to improve. At the moment, if it's just slightly uphill or undulating then I can run most of it, just stopping to walk now and then. But when it steepens up then I go for run a minute/walk a minute. When it steepens up even more then it's a case of run 30 secs/walk a minute. And when it gets impossibly steep I still try to run - 20 sec bouts but I then have to stop. Give myself 10secs max to stop, then walk a minute.

I quite enjoy this systematic approach and I'm sure that if I tried to wall ALL the steep bits then all I'd be doing was going out hillwalking and running the downhill. I like the discipline of forcing myself to try and run really steep bits even if it crucifies me.

I'm sort of hoping that forcing myself will strengthen up my legs and that it will get easier over time. And that if I try to run the steeper bits, it will make the less steep bits seem easier to run.

Do you think that this is an okay way to work things? Or do you think it's better just to walk the hard bits and only run the bits that you're able?

In reply to Sonya Mc:

Sonya my motto is to always attack the hard bits with gusto.

In reply to Sonya Mc: It depends how far you intend to run that day to be honest. If i'm doing longer ditances i tend to conserve a bit of energy on the ups and power along the flats and downhils.

On the shorter runs i would be trying to run as much of it as possible.

In reply to Sonya Mc: A few do the run 10 yards, walk 10 yards, I walk very early in a race, but will walk past runners. You have to work out what works, do you have a m/minutes ascent rate on your watch?

Some people are better suited to maintaining a run, I walk but use the hands on knees or behind my back.

Re only walking up and running down. That's literally all I do in a long fell race like Jura and came 4th with that approach.

In training i run far more as its more enjoyable to run, say up Snowdon I can run every step, but in the race I'll run the flats harder and walk the hills, but at a fast gasping pace. Heart rate seems to ease slightly, but still by gasping and sweating so effort will be the same.

In reply to Eric the Red: On a windy day that's a real problem, especially with sweat. It does make me slow down in places but I'm not a fan of glasses, even in summer, so just put up with it.

In reply to IainRUK: I'm not really bothered about time (my time is too crap to worry about it :oD My legs don't have a lot of power in them so at the moment I'm more interested in increasing the power in my legs. I guess the answer is, is that there's no hard and fast rule so I should just go with what feels best for me.

I've only got a m/minutes general bit on my watch, not specific to ascents. And I'd have to do the same run more than once to see whether it's quicker for me to walk or do my walk/run/stop thing. I'm in exploration mode at the minute and trying to run as many different places near by as possible so it's hard to determine what would be quicker for me as the terrains I've been on have been differing quite a bit.

In reply to Sonya Mc:

A friend of mine has improved his hillrunning (to the extent he's very well placed in the SHR championship) largely through cycling - he swears by it. Apparently Angela Mudge is also a big fan of biking too.

In reply to tony: Quite a few have, cycling and especially hilly road riding really seems to have benefits.

I'd go along with hills on the bike being a good crossover for hills running. Flat a bit less so, depends what you've got and what you've got time for.

I'd agree descending is largely autonomous - if you think too hard, you can trip yourself up. Mind you it is affected by being tired, etc. All the recent falls I've had I can relate to being overtired, distracted, trying to fit a second session in or something /rubs missing skin on shoulder.

For our original poster, the shoes'll be fine and can be found cheap here and there. Give it a go, have confidence, learn by doing it. Expect to get a bit tired, don't beat yourself up about it. Enjoy the outing...

In reply to tony: I can imagine uphill cycling benefiting. Only problem is I just don't have time to do everything. I was out recently running with Pete(stack) off these forums and he reckoned I was doing okay for someone who hadn't done much hill running. So I must be doing something right

In reply to Sonya Mc: If you are a fit hill walker who can run then you'll do fine proper fell running. TBH you'll only seem slow when you race faster traily races, when more running specific fitness really matters. Most climbers/walkers who come across find they are Ok at ascending but often struggle on the runnable parts, and sometimes the down hills.

In reply to Owain:

I trail run and just love it I run in salomon xt wings which provide great support and provide some extra cushioning for any on road bits. Also run in salomon trail running shorts which are very light, cool and quick drying if you get wet (or should I say when you get wet).

Top tips just get out there and trust your feet you will learn to get a feel for the rough terrain and adjust your balance accordingly. When it comes to the up hills its all about practice and just getting up them (you only go up to come down thats the fun bit : )

oh and use your arms dont let them just hang and be a dead weight they can really help you get up those hills and as already stated try and keep your head up and look ahead and not down on the trail.

Get out in all weathers too and run through as many puddles and muddy bogs as you can find ; )

Enjoy!

In reply to becdent: I've done a fair bit of running down hills mostly hillwalking and B3 boots when descending mountains which is rather fun. However I got a wasted quad muscle because of it so I was wondering if this type of running will build up this muscle if it take a progressive approach?

In reply to becdent:

Good point about arms. Also very useful for balancing on the downhill. Kilian Jornet (who I reckon knows a bit about trail running ) seems to be using his arms as much as the legs. He says to "do a backwards windmill movement" to slow down.

In reply to StefanB: Kilian is the man! Great point about the downhill Ill have to give that a go when my feet run away with me.

In reply to Owain: hhhmm not sure may need to ask a physio that one.