UKC

Anyone had surgery for the above?
Was it successful and what were your recovery/rehab times?

I've been off the hill and off work for 7 months (endless waiting lists/appointments) whilst they decide what to do.

I'm pretty much housebound now so although concerned about spinal surgery I'm desperate for a solution.

I'd appreciate any advice/experiences - good or bad.

Thanks.

In reply to Batcloud:

Sorry, I have no experience of this but hope you get it sorted successfully soon and can get back out into the hills again.

In reply to Knitting Norah:

Thank you

In reply to Batcloud: seven months isn't too long,took me a couple of years to walk properly, still difficult, but generaly it dosent affect my climbing ; I havent been operated on but would be 100% percent sure it will benefit you, as I have met plenty that it just made worse. A word of warning dont over do it as you can permantley damage your nerves, as I did, then nothing will change that, It will get better, just there is rarely a quick soloution, stenosis I believe Is quite easy to cure, best of luck, and keep climbing!

In reply to dale1968:

"I havent been operated on but would be 100% percent sure it will benefit you, as I have met plenty that it just made worse".

?? 'would' be 100% sure? Did you mean wouldn't?? Confused!

Thanks for reply though.

In reply to Batcloud:

I had surgery on a prolapsed L5 about 2 years ago

First week was spent wobbling around the house
week 2 were going out for short walks
weeks 3-4 were gentle cycling and swimming
weeks 4-6 were more intensive cycling swimming.
I started doing some physio around week 6
I took up climbing around 8 weeks after the op. I've been climbing and doing gym work ever since to keep core strength up to prevent a relapse.

For me, the op was 100% sucessful. No more back pain / sciatica at all. It made a massive difference to my life, and I'm very glad I had it done. Let me know if you need any more info!

In reply to kingborris:

That's good, glad things worked out.
What was done?
I think I'll need 'decompression' surgery for the Stenosis.

In reply to Batcloud:

I had a discectomy, where they trim of the prolapsed part of the disc, and also shave a little off the surrounding vertibrae to enable access to the prolapse and to give the sciatic nerve a bit more space. Ended up with about a 1" scar in the small of my back.

In reply to kingborris:

cheers again.
They don't seem to know quite what my problem is because I have no leg pain/sciatica despite a bi-lateral prolapse and Stenosis. (Just intense back pain/spasm). Hence lots of time lost for Epidural and Nerve block injections to diagnose!

In reply to Batcloud:

Any other experiences of Spinal decompression surgery?

Hi,

I had left L4/5 posterior lumbar decompression discectomy and interbody fusion via PLIF (try saying that after a few beers) due to the disc being completely worn off. I was walking two days after the operation and doing yoga 3 months later. Since the doctor was happy with my recovery, I started to do sports (running, climbing, bicycling) approximately 6 months after the operation.

Thanks, Patrik

In reply to Patrik:

Fantastic! Hope for me yet?

I need to understand why my consultant is so pessimistic about the prognosis
of surgery? Another 6 weeks to wait until I get to see him!!

In reply to Batcloud:

Maybe he is always pessimistic, maybe your case has indicators of a worse than usual outcome or maybe a bit of both? Ask him - I don't mean if he's a pesimist, but where he thinks your case sits in the continuum from mild to severe.

In reply to Cats:

Thanks, yes I'll ask but he doesn't give much away - maybe because the precise diagnosis is not clear 'yet'?

In reply to Batcloud: Hi there. I suffered from severe disc prolapse a few years back (L5/S1) and had surgery (discectomy and laminectomy). My understanding of surgery is that it is brilliant in most cases for decompressing the nerve roots or spinal cord and treating leg pain (ie sciatica) and any muscle weakness due to nerve damage. However, if the muscle is greatly damaged then it may never fully recover.

It is also my understanding that the surgery isn't that great for those who only suffer from back pain because the surgery is only there to decompress the nerve root or cord and it doesn't address any other problems. But if your back pain is due to muscle spasm because of the stenosis then I guess it might help this. Your consultant should be able to answer this. Make a list of questions you have and demand answers. Spinal surgery shouldn't be taken lightly and just used as a last option.

It was fab for me in that it 99% got rid of my sciatica and got me off some seriously powerful painkillers and gave me my life back. Think I was back climbing a month or so after the op (but I can't fully remember as it was several years ago now) I took up running about 6months after the op and this does hurt my back a lot at times if I push myself too much, but if I take things nice and slowly and build up to faster, longer, harder runs then I believe it strengthens my back in the long run.

I've been left with a 100% dessicated disc at L5/S1 (ie, there is no longer any nucleus to this disc) and the one above isn't fairing much better and is at risk. But I believe my running helps keep the muscles and ligaments strong to help support my spinal physiology. I've also got spondylosis in my cervical spine and symptoms of nerve involvement in my arms but I'm happy putting up with it and keeping on running and climbing etc.

I also know of at least another few people who've had nerve root and spinal cord decompression surgery and are out climbing (one climbs VERY hard indeed!)

In reply to Sonya Mc:

Many thanks for reply. I guess an accurate diagnosis is what I need before possible surgery which is what is being sought with various injections but it all takes so long and the enforced inactivity is I'm sure making things worse.
As for running, I blame my condition 'partly' on too much running over the years (lots of 'heavyweight' pounding in my case)! Getting back to walking to the local shop seems in doubt now?

Some encouraging responses though so thanks

In reply to Batcloud: Keep walking as much as you can within limits of what you are able to do! Walking is so good for spinal problems (obviously not when things are very acute and you can't actually physically walk!) When I was at my worst I couldn't actually get off the floor, but once able to move I forced myself to shuffle round my block of houses every hour without fail.

In reply to Batcloud: Haven't you had an MRI scan? That will show the level of stenosis and disc herniation quite accurately.

In reply to Sonya Mc:

MRI back in Feb 2011 - Bilateral prolapse L5/S1 and marked Stenosis.
Lesser bulges L3/4 and L4/5 but not too bad.
Also C spine issues but again, not so bad.

Walking around the block would be great, not an option!
Severe pain/spasm with any walking, no leg pain?

Had targeted nerve block last week to diagnose, no effect 'yet'

In reply to Sonya Mc:

Sorry, last post sounded like a consultation!!!

I'll see the man again in 5 weeks so I'll see what that brings?

In reply to Batcloud:

Had a discectomy & laminectomy of the L 4/5 - S1 in 2007 and again in 2011,

Got back into climbing / mountaineering in between the ops,but the nerve pain came back around 2009.

Once you have surgery be very carefull with your back,I have lost a lot of mobility and suffer a lot of nerve pain.Having said that climbed for the first time in 2 years yesterday,managed to drag myself up a couple of vs/ hvs's.

Do lots of work get the core muscles working.

In reply to Batcloud: Ah I see, well you have my sympathies, it's a horrid, horrid pain. Hope you get it all mended, best wishes

In reply to Big Jonnie:

When you say 'Nerve pain' - you mean referred pain in the legs or back pain?
(I never get pain in the legs?).

Did your ops involve fusion of the vertebrae?

Good luck with yours and the climbing, stupid thing is I can climb something
('easy' - could never climb hard anyway!) it's the walking I can't do.

In reply to Batcloud: Sonya Mc makes some excellent comments and suggestions in my experience. I'm not sure that many will come on here and give negative comments. Every case is unique and you must remain positive. Obtain a specific diagnosis and only undertake surgery if necessary. Keep active and build up core strength, and do what you can within your pain limits.
My experience is over 10 years old so lots will have changed not doubt.  The bad - I prolapsed L4/5, and L5/S1. I had surgery on L4/5 as it was a central prolapse, and the pressure on the spinal chord was considerable. Outcome of surgery had little effect. One prognosis was I could end up in a wheelchair. Two years later I still struggled to walk 20 yards and lived on painkillers.  The decision not to operate further was based on the high risk to the spinal chord c/w expected benefit.  Whether you need surgery will depend on a lot of medical decisions and you need to seek the best advice and best surgeon you can.  It is easy to be desperate and want to rush things - I know as I've been there! However, I would suggest questioning any decision - why, risk, alternatives, etc. Anecdotal evidence suggests that a considerable number of people do have problems after and in some cases are much worse. Even if you have problems, it's more what can you do than what you can't that's important in life.
However, the good - after much research and being ignored by the NHS I took charge of my own recovery.  Long story short - specialist physio was my route and a lot of it. I was back to hillwalking (Munro bagging level) after a further two years , and then skiing (on piste only). I choose not to return to running as personally I felt it was too "hard" on the lower back, but I do climb and scramble regularly. I do what I can within the pain level I have. On a bad day, not a lot, on a good day whatever I wish! Today I'm about to go climbing! I actually do more walking/skiing/climbing/scrambling and at a higher level than I did before. Yes there are things that I can't do, don't do, or won't! You just adapt.
If you can climb, can you cycle instead of walking for example? But if you can climb, then you must be able to walk a limited amount? I started walking 20 yds, once a day, then twice, etc, up to five, then 40 yds once a day, then twice, etc.
Best wishes for your recovery. Keep positive no matter what.

In reply to Cats: I saw a surgeon recently and he was effing useless- in fact worse than that- scared me into inaction, and it just got worse. When the Physio returned from hols he offered me a sensible prognosis,a dn although the highballing is very risky now, the climbign is ongoing and it makes me feel better as it's basically self traction! Mine is a mild case though compared with all of these.

For once, a superb thread.

In reply to Sonya Mc: Indeed- it's amazing that once you start talkign to old crocs about it (like me) everyone's got a spine story.

More climbing- less gardening!



CO

In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Nice name, would suit me - more for the Pies than the climbing!

Thank you for taking the time to post your reply.
I see what you mean about not receiving too many negative posts on this subject, 'considerate people on ukc'.

Most internet forums (medical ones) have proved fairly disheartening but maybe that's because most folks who post still have problems whereas those who are better are busy getting on with their lives?

I know it's important to stay positive, not so easy with months of pain, no work, no hills and endless delays with the NHS. It becomes a mental struggle as well as I'm sure you know.

Good to hear positive outcomes like yours.

I'll dig my bike out next week and see if I can turn the pedals. (TDF next year? now that's positive!!!).

Thank you for all replies.