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Hey guys, first post. Just picked up climbing again properly. Used to do it at least 3x a week and was also on a strength routine training weights, eating a high protein diet etc. This time around I'd rather drop weight and be light and focus all my energy into becoming a brilliant climber so I'm wondering if it's worth actually training my chest? Or would I be better off just going out to do some cardio instead. I understand that people will say to train the whole body evenly to avoid injury etc, but I've never actually seen any professional climbers do any sort of bench pressing, deadlifting or squats so I'm just wondering how much is actually going to be useful. Gradually putting together a training plan so any help is appreciated! Thanks.
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
i suppose some climbers do the lifts you mention, certainly alpine climbers do.
i wouldnt go to town on benching, but as something to develop shoulder structure as part of a greater training thing then sure.
the movement itself isnt very applicable to climbing, but for integrity and antagonistic training it has its place (ie intermixed with weighted pull ups or somesuch).
maybe too high rep/low weight sets for muscular endurance.
or 1 arm presses that work balance and fine recruitment.
gotta think tho if that time and risk (benching is notorious for injuries) is well applied...
as it goes, a bit of benching works with alpine climbing to develop shoulder mass for long days with heavy packs.
if any thing id think ring pushes would be safer and have a larger area of effect and more applicable recruitment.
i suppose some climbers do the lifts you mention, certainly alpine climbers do.
i wouldnt go to town on benching, but as something to develop shoulder structure as part of a greater training thing then sure.
the movement itself isnt very applicable to climbing, but for integrity and antagonistic training it has its place (ie intermixed with weighted pull ups or somesuch).
maybe too high rep/low weight sets for muscular endurance.
or 1 arm presses that work balance and fine recruitment.
gotta think tho if that time and risk (benching is notorious for injuries) is well applied...
as it goes, a bit of benching works with alpine climbing to develop shoulder mass for long days with heavy packs.
if any thing id think ring pushes would be safer and have a larger area of effect and more applicable recruitment.
In reply to ice.solo: So I guess really there's not much use in it, just as I thought. The problem I'm having is I'm only really used to training on a 3 - 4 day a week weight training schedule which includes the three major compound movements, but really I found them to be no use to me with climbing when I was doing it consistently a few years ago so I'm not really sure where to go. I can't really be training my back, biceps and abs 3 days a week without overtraining them. Are there any sort of training schedules written out there? Trust me I've looked too, I'm on here most days and googling away. Am I missing something completely obvious? Some kinda structure ideas would be great.
Thanks ice.solo, really appreciate your input.
Thanks ice.solo, really appreciate your input.
In reply to SaulGilsenan: It really depends if your training for climbing or if the weight training is something you want to do aswell. If your main sport and main goal is climbing then weight training will not see massive gains in comparison to simply time spent climbing. I have always preffered to just dedicate 15mins at the end of a session to campusing juggy routes to improve back and shoulder strength, you improve all the relevant supporting muscels and your training a specific movement. I have always considered any gym work as seperate from climbing training for different goals.
I have found that a few good cardio sessions really help my climbing endurance.
I have found that a few good cardio sessions really help my climbing endurance.
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
You can probably trade on the upper body strength you have already trained for up well into the high 7's and as you seem to have grasped already mass reduction will be beneficial to your climbing.
Your time would be better spent on acquiring finger strength, finger endurance and aquiring technical and movement skills mainly through a lot of unstructured or structured climbing and bouldering.
Cardio has little direct benefit for rock climbing as the endurance requirements are local to smaller muscle groups (mainly forearms)and so not dependent on cardio efficiency.
9/10 Climbers is a great manual for improvement as is the Self Coached climber. If you want to get really bogged down there are a bunch of links here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16421.0.html
You can probably trade on the upper body strength you have already trained for up well into the high 7's and as you seem to have grasped already mass reduction will be beneficial to your climbing.
Your time would be better spent on acquiring finger strength, finger endurance and aquiring technical and movement skills mainly through a lot of unstructured or structured climbing and bouldering.
Cardio has little direct benefit for rock climbing as the endurance requirements are local to smaller muscle groups (mainly forearms)and so not dependent on cardio efficiency.
9/10 Climbers is a great manual for improvement as is the Self Coached climber. If you want to get really bogged down there are a bunch of links here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16421.0.html
In reply to tradattack: Going for full on climbing training now, I'm really not bothered about looking big or muscular at all since that won't help me climb, I'd rather be shredded and a fantastic climber. The only problem I have is that I can't afford to go climbing more than twice a week so I'm kinda stuck for the moment, wanted to see if there was something I could structure so I find it easier when I can climb more often. Looks to be simply just keep active and do back, shoulder, arm and core workouts. I hope I'm not too far wrong?
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
yeah like the other guys say: training fingers and forearms, and developing back and core whilst at the wall/crag.
me, i think it all connects, so stuff that pulls it all together from hands and fingers to the big muscle groups that are the 'core '(jeez i loathe that word).
for climbing hard you want precision and recruitment power too, along with actual contact strength. full body lifts can help there - but off set them or use kettlebells or something to show up any left/right imbalances.
my personal favourite is suspended presses - not much to do with regular presses at all, but connects right thru the body (basicly drop back to horizontal on a GHD and press a kettlebell from armpit to full extension).
but again, being a press its not too directly applicable, more as a body integrity thing.
overhead squats are another good one.
plyometric pushups and overhead holds to train pump and recovery are good too.
nothing wrong with just training to get stronger in general
yeah like the other guys say: training fingers and forearms, and developing back and core whilst at the wall/crag.
me, i think it all connects, so stuff that pulls it all together from hands and fingers to the big muscle groups that are the 'core '(jeez i loathe that word).
for climbing hard you want precision and recruitment power too, along with actual contact strength. full body lifts can help there - but off set them or use kettlebells or something to show up any left/right imbalances.
my personal favourite is suspended presses - not much to do with regular presses at all, but connects right thru the body (basicly drop back to horizontal on a GHD and press a kettlebell from armpit to full extension).
but again, being a press its not too directly applicable, more as a body integrity thing.
overhead squats are another good one.
plyometric pushups and overhead holds to train pump and recovery are good too.
nothing wrong with just training to get stronger in general
In reply to ice.solo:
You say you are using a kettle bell, any specific exercises for climbing?
Or just use as I have for over strength/balance/co-ordination?
You say you are using a kettle bell, any specific exercises for climbing?
Or just use as I have for over strength/balance/co-ordination?
In reply to fire_munki:
im really just starting to expand with them, so other sources will be better.
i find they are good for a kind of cardio-precision thing: keeping good structural and muscular form during high rep sessions of complex ballistic movements.
sounds impressive but really just means full body, full ROM for long bouts, with an element requiring precision.
man-makers (another stupid name) area fine example: push up on the bells, left and right row, feet to hands, thrust press both bells, drop back to push up.
so no, not specific to climbing moves, but good for overall condition.
all said, i train for winter climbing and have had good consistant results. havent spent enough time climbing non-winter hard routes to really know the specifics.
im really just starting to expand with them, so other sources will be better.
i find they are good for a kind of cardio-precision thing: keeping good structural and muscular form during high rep sessions of complex ballistic movements.
sounds impressive but really just means full body, full ROM for long bouts, with an element requiring precision.
man-makers (another stupid name) area fine example: push up on the bells, left and right row, feet to hands, thrust press both bells, drop back to push up.
so no, not specific to climbing moves, but good for overall condition.
all said, i train for winter climbing and have had good consistant results. havent spent enough time climbing non-winter hard routes to really know the specifics.
In reply to shark:
Self-Coached Climber is a very, very good book - as is the DVD.
I've just ordered 9/10 - looks very interesting. If you buy it from Dave's website it comes signed.
> 9/10 Climbers is a great manual for improvement as is the Self Coached climber. If you want to get really bogged down there are a bunch of links here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16421.0.html
Self-Coached Climber is a very, very good book - as is the DVD.
I've just ordered 9/10 - looks very interesting. If you buy it from Dave's website it comes signed.
In reply to fire_munki:
You can do 'bottoms up' moves such as bottoms up clean, bottoms up press, bottoms up overhead hold/walk.
bottoms up is pretty obvious - you complete the move as normal but you have the bottom of the kettlebell facing upwards. to achieve this you have to really crush the handle of the kettlebell to keep it upright.
try looking on the dragonsdoor website for climbing kettlebell work, i think i remember something on there. a move i remember involved throwing and catching kettlebells...yummy!
> (In reply to ice.solo)
> You say you are using a kettle bell, any specific exercises for climbing?
> Or just use as I have for over strength/balance/co-ordination?
> You say you are using a kettle bell, any specific exercises for climbing?
> Or just use as I have for over strength/balance/co-ordination?
You can do 'bottoms up' moves such as bottoms up clean, bottoms up press, bottoms up overhead hold/walk.
bottoms up is pretty obvious - you complete the move as normal but you have the bottom of the kettlebell facing upwards. to achieve this you have to really crush the handle of the kettlebell to keep it upright.
try looking on the dragonsdoor website for climbing kettlebell work, i think i remember something on there. a move i remember involved throwing and catching kettlebells...yummy!
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
How can you know that?
I assume it's obvious you haven't seen anyone lifting weights in a climbng gym, as there usually are no weights available.
The only option left is you go to gym, then have you asked folks in normal gym, "mate, are you a climber?"
> I've never actually seen any professional climbers do any sort of bench
> pressing, deadlifting or squats
> pressing, deadlifting or squats
How can you know that?
I assume it's obvious you haven't seen anyone lifting weights in a climbng gym, as there usually are no weights available.
The only option left is you go to gym, then have you asked folks in normal gym, "mate, are you a climber?"
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
Loads of good advice on here, Shark's particularly. No surprises there; he's studied it for a long time and has the results to show successful application.
Re chest/upper body. Decades ago, I used to do tons of weight training. No real purpose, just loved getting pumped. Nowadays I merely do press-ups (strict style), sit-ups (knees up, don't go all the way down) and leg-raises (upper body and lower body about 45 degrees to ground and a 'crunch' as your legs scissor in to your upper body.) Hope this makes sense.
I really recommend these exercises for general body conditioning and partly (press-ups) as antagonistic exercises for climbing. Also side-bends (with legs wide apart and a little crunch as you lean down) gets rid of love-handles pronto.
Four little exercises that cost nothing, only take a few minutes and will do more for most people than a gym subscription (although nothing wrong with that either). Worth considering...
Mick
Loads of good advice on here, Shark's particularly. No surprises there; he's studied it for a long time and has the results to show successful application.
Re chest/upper body. Decades ago, I used to do tons of weight training. No real purpose, just loved getting pumped. Nowadays I merely do press-ups (strict style), sit-ups (knees up, don't go all the way down) and leg-raises (upper body and lower body about 45 degrees to ground and a 'crunch' as your legs scissor in to your upper body.) Hope this makes sense.
I really recommend these exercises for general body conditioning and partly (press-ups) as antagonistic exercises for climbing. Also side-bends (with legs wide apart and a little crunch as you lean down) gets rid of love-handles pronto.
Four little exercises that cost nothing, only take a few minutes and will do more for most people than a gym subscription (although nothing wrong with that either). Worth considering...
Mick
In reply to SaulGilsenan: Train it so that the antagonistic groups of your back get an even work out... other wise you're a ticking time bomb of a bad back syndrome. Light weight fly excercise will help on any squeeze holds and besides tthe chicks still love a toned chest. Matty B
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
From everything I've been told if you want to drop weight then deadlifts and squats will help. The legs are the biggest muscle group so training them will help torch fat. Deadlifts will strengthen your core too.
> Hey guys, first post. Just picked up climbing again properly. Used to do it at least 3x a week and was also on a strength routine training weights, eating a high protein diet etc. This time around I'd rather drop weight and be light and focus all my energy into becoming a brilliant climber so I'm wondering if it's worth actually training my chest? Or would I be better off just going out to do some cardio instead. I understand that people will say to train the whole body evenly to avoid injury etc, but I've never actually seen any professional climbers do any sort of bench pressing, deadlifting or squats so I'm just wondering how much is actually going to be useful. Gradually putting together a training plan so any help is appreciated! Thanks.
From everything I've been told if you want to drop weight then deadlifts and squats will help. The legs are the biggest muscle group so training them will help torch fat. Deadlifts will strengthen your core too.
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
Two days a week is not much so you should do the supplemental stuff. A fingerboard and pullup bar combo will allow you to do more specifically useful exercises. If you have a space and a budget and motivation a leaning home board (woodie)to do hard problems and circuits is better still.
> The only problem I have is that I can't afford to go climbing more than twice a week so I'm kinda stuck for the moment, wanted to see if there was something I could structure so I find it easier when I can climb more often. Looks to be simply just keep active and do back, shoulder, arm and core workouts. I hope I'm not too far wrong?
Two days a week is not much so you should do the supplemental stuff. A fingerboard and pullup bar combo will allow you to do more specifically useful exercises. If you have a space and a budget and motivation a leaning home board (woodie)to do hard problems and circuits is better still.
In reply to Mick Ward:
Thanks Mick..
Time for another set of assisted frontal one armers!
> (In reply to SaulGilsenan)
>
> Loads of good advice on here, Shark's particularly. No surprises there; he's studied it for a long time and has the results to show successful application.
>
>
> Loads of good advice on here, Shark's particularly. No surprises there; he's studied it for a long time and has the results to show successful application.
>
Thanks Mick..
Time for another set of assisted frontal one armers!
In reply to mloskot:
I said I'd never seen, not that it didn't exist. I also said professional. I've seen some tanked guys in my climbing wall but I know none of those are professional climbers.
Thanks for all the replies folks!
I said I'd never seen, not that it didn't exist. I also said professional. I've seen some tanked guys in my climbing wall but I know none of those are professional climbers.
Thanks for all the replies folks!
In reply to SaulGilsenan:
Have you looked at the UKC series of articles on 'Training to Become a Better Climber'. The three posted so far include training plans which may help ou developing yours.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3694
David
Have you looked at the UKC series of articles on 'Training to Become a Better Climber'. The three posted so far include training plans which may help ou developing yours.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3694
David
In reply to SaulGilsenan: Another thing you could do is invest in a decent bouldering mat.
While the initial spend is quite high, you'll find, especially if you live near to somewhere that you can boulder. That when you can't afford to go to an indoor centre, you can grab your mat and go out for a session (dependant on weather sadly.)
I'm on a budget, so like you, I can only afford to go to my local centre 1 or 2 times a week. But after splashing out some dough for a decent crash pad, I can hop in my car, drive a couple miles down the road and boulder whenever it takes my fancy.
However, if you are gonna do that, you have to be 100% sure you'll be committed to using it. I bought a moon warrior pad that cost me just shy of £150, so obviously to make sure it was friendly to my pocket, I had to use it instead of the centre for ~24 "sessions" before I broke even. However having it means I've been using it twice a week since the beginning of Feb meaning not only have I broke even, I've saved myself £130 minus whatever petrol I used to get the the boulders.
While the initial spend is quite high, you'll find, especially if you live near to somewhere that you can boulder. That when you can't afford to go to an indoor centre, you can grab your mat and go out for a session (dependant on weather sadly.)
I'm on a budget, so like you, I can only afford to go to my local centre 1 or 2 times a week. But after splashing out some dough for a decent crash pad, I can hop in my car, drive a couple miles down the road and boulder whenever it takes my fancy.
However, if you are gonna do that, you have to be 100% sure you'll be committed to using it. I bought a moon warrior pad that cost me just shy of £150, so obviously to make sure it was friendly to my pocket, I had to use it instead of the centre for ~24 "sessions" before I broke even. However having it means I've been using it twice a week since the beginning of Feb meaning not only have I broke even, I've saved myself £130 minus whatever petrol I used to get the the boulders.
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