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Just had an indoor session and I can't climb even VDiffs. I had to rainbow climb, and sometimes couldn't even do those.
I don't regularly climb, and it's always because of the same thing, if there's a hold just out of my comfort zone, I won't push myself! I just can't bring myself to push it those couple of inches.
Will this come with time? Is it a confidence thing or just a lack of skill?
Its really starting to annoy me as it's hindering what I can progress to doing!
Cheers
I don't regularly climb, and it's always because of the same thing, if there's a hold just out of my comfort zone, I won't push myself! I just can't bring myself to push it those couple of inches.
Will this come with time? Is it a confidence thing or just a lack of skill?
Its really starting to annoy me as it's hindering what I can progress to doing!
Cheers
In reply to martinlird: Familiarity? Do it loads and you should get used to it. Good luck.
In reply to martinlird: There is climbs graded vdiff inside? Or have i misunderstood?
In reply to martinlird: Nope not misunderstood, I thought it was strange at first, but that's how their graded.
In reply to martinlird:
I suppose it's having faith in your own ability. Whether you climb VDiff or E8. The more you climb, the more you'll be able to "push" yourself.
Keep it up, you'll be fine.
I suppose it's having faith in your own ability. Whether you climb VDiff or E8. The more you climb, the more you'll be able to "push" yourself.
Keep it up, you'll be fine.
In reply to martinlird:
Don't make the mistake of reaching for holds that are out of reach, instead, practice getting your feet up on the next hold up, then standing up and reaching up from a low hand position, that way the holds will be within reach.
Don't make the mistake of reaching for holds that are out of reach, instead, practice getting your feet up on the next hold up, then standing up and reaching up from a low hand position, that way the holds will be within reach.
In reply to martinlird: It's confidence. Sounds like you could do with getting some falling practice, once you lose the fear of falling your technique will come on in leaps and bounds as everything feels a bit less desperate.
It's entirely normal to be afraid of falling, it's a self-preservation instinct but unnecessary in this context as the consequence has been removed. By intentionally falling repeatedly in a single session you can train yourself out of this mindset.
Also, climb more!
It's entirely normal to be afraid of falling, it's a self-preservation instinct but unnecessary in this context as the consequence has been removed. By intentionally falling repeatedly in a single session you can train yourself out of this mindset.
Also, climb more!
In reply to martinlird: Watch several climbing DVD's (e.g. onsight, progression) You will get psyched and believe you can do anything. Your cured...good luck!
In reply to Styx: I read your comments and thought 'bet he is much younger than me' - yep you are 20 years younger than me hence the comments on falling practice. When I started climbing I was told not to fall, I found that my technique really improved because I knew I couldn't fall. Lead up to E1 and regularly soloed up to VS without falling. It is interesting how times have changed attitudes, perhaps if I had been told to practice falling I might have climbed harder, who knows.
To the OP - I agree with Styx's last comment, climb more to get more experience and more familiarity with the routes and holds. Also climb outside if you can, you get a better range of holds for one thing.
To the OP - I agree with Styx's last comment, climb more to get more experience and more familiarity with the routes and holds. Also climb outside if you can, you get a better range of holds for one thing.
In reply to Styx:
However, if you want to do real v-diffs outside - as there won't be any sport routes around at that level - then falling-off isn't alsways a -no-worry' option!
> (In reply to martinlird) It's confidence. Sounds like you could do with getting some falling practice, once you lose the fear of falling your technique will come on in leaps and bounds as everything feels a bit less desperate.
>
> It's entirely normal to be afraid of falling, it's a self-preservation instinct but unnecessary in this context as the consequence has been removed. By intentionally falling repeatedly in a single session you can train yourself out of this mindset.
>
> Also, climb more!
>
> It's entirely normal to be afraid of falling, it's a self-preservation instinct but unnecessary in this context as the consequence has been removed. By intentionally falling repeatedly in a single session you can train yourself out of this mindset.
>
> Also, climb more!
However, if you want to do real v-diffs outside - as there won't be any sport routes around at that level - then falling-off isn't alsways a -no-worry' option!
In reply to ring ouzel:
I don't know when you started climbing, but you're significantly younger than me, when I started (1974) "the leader must not fall" was ancient history and pushing yourself to the point of taking leader falls was the way to make rapid progress.
> (In reply to Styx)When I started climbing I was told not to fall, I found that my technique really improved because I knew I couldn't fall.
I don't know when you started climbing, but you're significantly younger than me, when I started (1974) "the leader must not fall" was ancient history and pushing yourself to the point of taking leader falls was the way to make rapid progress.
In reply to Mark Kemball:
I started climbing at about or just before you, and the advice given to me was not to fall. Maybe I accepted this advice because I was never going to climb above about VS, and was certainly never one to push the grade.
Pete
I started climbing at about or just before you, and the advice given to me was not to fall. Maybe I accepted this advice because I was never going to climb above about VS, and was certainly never one to push the grade.
Pete
In reply to Mark Kemball: I started in 1978 Mark. There didn't seem to be many climbers in Ochils MC at the time and those people I did climb with were perhaps not quite at the cutting edge.
In reply to Styx:
Couldn`t disagree more, the OP is talking V diff, a 20 year old just should not really fall off routes so easy unless a piece of rock drops off or a seagull poo`s in your eye, if V Diff is too hard then climb Diff until you can climb V Diff, http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=472775&v=1#x6534507
Totally agree
> (In reply to martinlird) By intentionally falling repeatedly in a single session you can train yourself out of this mindset.
>
>
Couldn`t disagree more, the OP is talking V diff, a 20 year old just should not really fall off routes so easy unless a piece of rock drops off or a seagull poo`s in your eye, if V Diff is too hard then climb Diff until you can climb V Diff, http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=472775&v=1#x6534507
> Also, climb more!
Totally agree
In reply to martinlird:
are you only climbing inside at the moment?
It will come with time, don't try and rush it. Try and climb more if you want to improve, it's the only way. Do some falling practice, it sounds like it might help you.
And don't worry too much about grade, once you get outside there's plenty of incredible climbs at Vdiff and under which you'll love. And then magically once you've done a load you'll realise you've also improved and can open up a whole lot of others
are you only climbing inside at the moment?
It will come with time, don't try and rush it. Try and climb more if you want to improve, it's the only way. Do some falling practice, it sounds like it might help you.
And don't worry too much about grade, once you get outside there's plenty of incredible climbs at Vdiff and under which you'll love. And then magically once you've done a load you'll realise you've also improved and can open up a whole lot of others
In reply to Pete Ford:
If you tell yourself you're never going to do something then you definitely wont. Where's your flipping ambition?!
@OP
Learning to trust the rope won't snap if you fall on it when you're top-roping at the wall = good.
Agree with sjc that falling off real VDiffs with loads of ankle busting ledges when leading outdoors = bad.
If you tell yourself you're never going to do something then you definitely wont. Where's your flipping ambition?!
@OP
Learning to trust the rope won't snap if you fall on it when you're top-roping at the wall = good.
Agree with sjc that falling off real VDiffs with loads of ankle busting ledges when leading outdoors = bad.
In reply to martinlird:
Climbing walls have given everyone the opportunity to try climbing which is great. Not everyone's cut out for it though.
Falling practice on Vdiffs is a joke right?
Climbing walls have given everyone the opportunity to try climbing which is great. Not everyone's cut out for it though.
Falling practice on Vdiffs is a joke right?
In reply to Goucho: if you had bothered to read the entire thread you'll realise that the OP is referring to indoor climbing even though the route is given a trad grade, and hence why they say they have to rainbow it (using any colour going).
I suspect that is why people are suggesting taking (indoor) falls. No one in their right mind would ever suggest taking a practice fall on a vdiff for real
I suspect that is why people are suggesting taking (indoor) falls. No one in their right mind would ever suggest taking a practice fall on a vdiff for real
In reply to martinlird:
I'm hardly the world's best climber, but I too can shimmy up a VDiff. For what it's worth, I find it much easier on rock than on a wall, because there are no colours to fret about, and you think instead about the best place to put your hands and feet, not the place where someone else says you must put them.
I'm hardly the world's best climber, but I too can shimmy up a VDiff. For what it's worth, I find it much easier on rock than on a wall, because there are no colours to fret about, and you think instead about the best place to put your hands and feet, not the place where someone else says you must put them.
In reply to Jgh69: In reply to martinlird: Not sure if this helps but I have several friends who climb up to grade 5 Scottish winter... All have done tower ridge and none climb indoors and those that have rainbow up just as I do because there are no colour co-ordinated holds to follow on the hill... And if you can rainbow inside I reckon you'd eat a VDiff in the real world. I'm no climber but I can do VDiff..
In reply to martinlird: I reckon the wall that you climb at can't grade for sh*t. Why the hell would you grade V.Diff indoors, that's a subjective grade and not a technical grade. And even equating it technical wise, what's V.Diff, around 3/3+. So if the wall's rainbow routes are easier than this, they must be about F2/F2+ and ffs, that's a wall grading for toddlers and small children.
I'm of the opinion that your wall has just stuck something up that's probably harder than 3, maybe even harder than 4 and has just called it V.Diff as they don't have a clue about grading.
I'm of the opinion that your wall has just stuck something up that's probably harder than 3, maybe even harder than 4 and has just called it V.Diff as they don't have a clue about grading.
In reply to sjc: Read the original post, he's talking about indoors. I'd be pretty bloody surprised if a rock fell on his head indoors.
In reply to Goucho: Another fabulously ill informed reply from a spectacularly lazy/inept poster, brilliant stuff there chap!
In reply to martinlird: PS - how did you find the real V.Diffs and severes and the VS that you toproped outdoors?
In reply to Styx: Go and get some proper climbing experience sonny boy, then come back and give me a shout.
In reply to martinlird:
just lack of confidence, most average "weekend" climbers will gravitate to hs/vs outside eventually. i have mega sulks about what i can/cant do all the time, form, confidence, and belief comes and goes. if your outside, just make sure your making good sound gear placements, climb with more experianced climbers, look to your footwork always, and if someone better than you offers a bit of advice, listen to it! ..not sure about the v/diff inside though, what wall is that?? ...i can think of some horrific v/diffs outside, and also some push over "gimme" v.s climbs.
just lack of confidence, most average "weekend" climbers will gravitate to hs/vs outside eventually. i have mega sulks about what i can/cant do all the time, form, confidence, and belief comes and goes. if your outside, just make sure your making good sound gear placements, climb with more experianced climbers, look to your footwork always, and if someone better than you offers a bit of advice, listen to it! ..not sure about the v/diff inside though, what wall is that?? ...i can think of some horrific v/diffs outside, and also some push over "gimme" v.s climbs.
In reply to martinlird:
Just ask yourself 'do I really want to climb?' If yes, put ruddy effort in and show some desire instead of playing at it, there is no excuse for not getting up a v diff indoors...if climbing is not for you, and there's no disgrace in that, find something else to do, like knitting...
Just ask yourself 'do I really want to climb?' If yes, put ruddy effort in and show some desire instead of playing at it, there is no excuse for not getting up a v diff indoors...if climbing is not for you, and there's no disgrace in that, find something else to do, like knitting...
In reply to martinlird: Where I go, Vdiff is used when the climb is below 3c in grade generally, i.e. so easy it doesn't even really deserve a tech grade.
I think this is a troll.
In reply to Jakabite: Why not call it "Easy". Instead of "Very Difficult"?
In reply to HappyTrundler:
It was almost a fair point until the knitting bit.
Perfectly ok for climbing not to be your thing.
> (In reply to martinlird)
>
> Just ask yourself 'do I really want to climb?' If yes, put ruddy effort in and show some desire instead of playing at it, there is no excuse for not getting up a v diff indoors...if climbing is not for you, and there's no disgrace in that, find something else to do, like knitting...
>
> Just ask yourself 'do I really want to climb?' If yes, put ruddy effort in and show some desire instead of playing at it, there is no excuse for not getting up a v diff indoors...if climbing is not for you, and there's no disgrace in that, find something else to do, like knitting...
It was almost a fair point until the knitting bit.
Perfectly ok for climbing not to be your thing.
In reply to martinlird: how often do you climb?
In reply to Tamati:
History!
Some climbs of today were once actually Very Difficult (compared to easier stuff such as walks and scrambles).
Time passes, the climbs and grade (excepting polish) remain the same, but now they are now referred to as easy as the relative point has changed. V diff is now the lower end as compared to hard stuff.
However, V diff is a misnomer of a grade inside and is not really applicable as there is no opportunity for leader placed protection etc
Not unusual, it happens in many walks of life, it is just not obvious without the relevant experience.
> (In reply to Jakabite) Why not call it "Easy". Instead of "Very Difficult"?
History!
Some climbs of today were once actually Very Difficult (compared to easier stuff such as walks and scrambles).
Time passes, the climbs and grade (excepting polish) remain the same, but now they are now referred to as easy as the relative point has changed. V diff is now the lower end as compared to hard stuff.
However, V diff is a misnomer of a grade inside and is not really applicable as there is no opportunity for leader placed protection etc
Not unusual, it happens in many walks of life, it is just not obvious without the relevant experience.
In reply to martinlird:
Or there's the opposite approach (particularly if you want to go outside)
There's loads of fantastic routes at VDiff and below, and if they're more than about ½ mile from the road, you won't see anyone else on them
Enjoy
Y.
Or there's the opposite approach (particularly if you want to go outside)
There's loads of fantastic routes at VDiff and below, and if they're more than about ½ mile from the road, you won't see anyone else on them
Enjoy
Y.
In reply to martinlird:
Martin, I really don't understand this indoor Vdiff thing, but fair enough. You could say a bit more about your experience. Like:
- Are you top-roping these indoor routes that have trad grades?
- Have you had any tuition? From someone who is fit to teach?
- Or are you just trying to do it with no tuition apart from your mate thats belaying you?
Not that I'm assuming anything, but you've said you've got this problem but you haven't really said that much about it.
Martin, I really don't understand this indoor Vdiff thing, but fair enough. You could say a bit more about your experience. Like:
- Are you top-roping these indoor routes that have trad grades?
- Have you had any tuition? From someone who is fit to teach?
- Or are you just trying to do it with no tuition apart from your mate thats belaying you?
Not that I'm assuming anything, but you've said you've got this problem but you haven't really said that much about it.
In reply to Country_Boy: if he climbs at warrington(he lives in cheshire)they grade top rope routes like that.
In reply to Tamati:
Beacuse easy is a separate grade -
easy, moderate, dif, v.diff, mild severe, severe, hard severe, very severe. Anything above that is hard. Those are the boxes to tick.
I like the french grade "abominably severe" myself.
Beacuse easy is a separate grade -
easy, moderate, dif, v.diff, mild severe, severe, hard severe, very severe. Anything above that is hard. Those are the boxes to tick.
I like the french grade "abominably severe" myself.
In reply to MikeYouCanClimb:
Nicely put.
Nicely put.
In reply to Calder:
That attitude was one that I chose to take, and I certainly have had the greatest time climbing over the years. I know that my stick in the mud views are not for everyone....and that's fine. I also know that there were no walls when I started to climb, well very few and even in those not so far off days the protection was getting there, but still crap.
Pete
That attitude was one that I chose to take, and I certainly have had the greatest time climbing over the years. I know that my stick in the mud views are not for everyone....and that's fine. I also know that there were no walls when I started to climb, well very few and even in those not so far off days the protection was getting there, but still crap.
Pete
In reply to all:
Sorry it wasn't a troll, was my birthday yesterday so didn't get chance to come online.
Well my first thought about having trad grades indoor was that it was strange, but I didn't think anything of it, as thought it must be a new thing their all doing. It was at plas power climbing centre in Wrexham. Top-roping by the way.
Fall practise has been advised before, but I didn't think anythin of it. But it seams thats the way to go. I only climb very infrequently, as I always struggle for a partner. So that may have a something to do with it.
When I say it's hindering me doing things, I mean, I really want to start alpine/mountaineering. That's where I think my main interest lies. But I want to be up to a decent standard climbing, so I can go into that with a good enough skill level. But I also want to be able to do some of the simpler multi-pitches in snowdonia for example, and they need a decent skill level of climbing to do.
Thanks for the replies. Well 90% of them anyways.
However some replies, about people's climbing experience, I think were abit out of order. How do you know they haven't been in the same situation I'm in recently and got themselves out of it and are building on their experience?
Sorry it wasn't a troll, was my birthday yesterday so didn't get chance to come online.
Well my first thought about having trad grades indoor was that it was strange, but I didn't think anything of it, as thought it must be a new thing their all doing. It was at plas power climbing centre in Wrexham. Top-roping by the way.
Fall practise has been advised before, but I didn't think anythin of it. But it seams thats the way to go. I only climb very infrequently, as I always struggle for a partner. So that may have a something to do with it.
When I say it's hindering me doing things, I mean, I really want to start alpine/mountaineering. That's where I think my main interest lies. But I want to be up to a decent standard climbing, so I can go into that with a good enough skill level. But I also want to be able to do some of the simpler multi-pitches in snowdonia for example, and they need a decent skill level of climbing to do.
Thanks for the replies. Well 90% of them anyways.
However some replies, about people's climbing experience, I think were abit out of order. How do you know they haven't been in the same situation I'm in recently and got themselves out of it and are building on their experience?
In reply to martinlird:
Sounds like you could do with some movement coaching/help as it does not sound like you are scared that the rope system won't work? A god coach instructor/coach could help you be more comfortable on the rock/resin which should stop you over reaching and over gripping.
Good Luck and don't give up.
Sounds like you could do with some movement coaching/help as it does not sound like you are scared that the rope system won't work? A god coach instructor/coach could help you be more comfortable on the rock/resin which should stop you over reaching and over gripping.
Good Luck and don't give up.
In reply to martinlird:
Call me old fashioned, but I find it difficult to understand how much fall practise for beginners is loosely recommended and accepted on here. To me it is only safe to practise in controlled situations on some indoor routes or certain routes outside with someone you trust. Just getting used to trusting your partner, by letting them lower you off is often sufficient in the early stages.
Even with practise and the improved confidence that comes from getting used to falling, it can provide a misplaced sense of security. You might get away with an unexpected fall leading on bolts or on a top rope. But transferring this skill outside and leading easy trad climbs, which are usually not very steep and full of obstacles it is not really something you would not want to practice. (the sort of climbs required for alpine practice)
Getting used to falling is a good tool to help experienced climbers improve their grade by overcoming fear. But even then I have seen young trad climbers (who now operate at quite high levels) take falls on trad as though they were leading on bolts.
However, it sounds like your issue is more one of a climbing relationship than climbing itself. I suggest you get in to a routine with a regular partner you can trust (probably harder to do than the climbing itself) or with an instructor who will help you focus on the right things in the right order. Joining a climbing club such as the Clwyd, Chester or Wrekin mountaineering (all operate on crags in your area) is another route to meet new partners.
Indoor Bouldering is another option, it can be done on your own and can be more sociable as well, hence easier to find partners. Of course there is UKC as well.
Unless you are in the tiger category, put enjoyment first and gather experience slowly, you will last longer at climbing and enjoy it more on the way.
> Fall practise has been advised before, but I didn't think anythin of it. But it seams thats the way to go. I only climb very infrequently, as I always struggle for a partner. So that may have a something to do with it.
Call me old fashioned, but I find it difficult to understand how much fall practise for beginners is loosely recommended and accepted on here. To me it is only safe to practise in controlled situations on some indoor routes or certain routes outside with someone you trust. Just getting used to trusting your partner, by letting them lower you off is often sufficient in the early stages.
Even with practise and the improved confidence that comes from getting used to falling, it can provide a misplaced sense of security. You might get away with an unexpected fall leading on bolts or on a top rope. But transferring this skill outside and leading easy trad climbs, which are usually not very steep and full of obstacles it is not really something you would not want to practice. (the sort of climbs required for alpine practice)
Getting used to falling is a good tool to help experienced climbers improve their grade by overcoming fear. But even then I have seen young trad climbers (who now operate at quite high levels) take falls on trad as though they were leading on bolts.
However, it sounds like your issue is more one of a climbing relationship than climbing itself. I suggest you get in to a routine with a regular partner you can trust (probably harder to do than the climbing itself) or with an instructor who will help you focus on the right things in the right order. Joining a climbing club such as the Clwyd, Chester or Wrekin mountaineering (all operate on crags in your area) is another route to meet new partners.
Indoor Bouldering is another option, it can be done on your own and can be more sociable as well, hence easier to find partners. Of course there is UKC as well.
Unless you are in the tiger category, put enjoyment first and gather experience slowly, you will last longer at climbing and enjoy it more on the way.
In reply to MikeYouCanClimb:
I suggested fall practice as it was quite clear that he was talking about having difficulties indoors, I wouldn't have suggested it on a real world vdiff, there's quite a difference and I think everyone is agreed upon that fact.
I started climbing three years ago, initially I was afraid of heights and couldn't get more than half way up my local wall at the time by any route, rainbow or otherwise. I had no confidence in myself or the equipment, it was only after being advised by a coach at the wall to try falling a few times on a top rope that I started to make progress, the fear of failing to make the move was gone and my climbing became much more fluid and efficient.
> (In reply to martinlird)
>
> [...]
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I find it difficult to understand how much fall practise for beginners is loosely recommended and accepted on here. To me it is only safe to practise in controlled situations on some indoor routes or certain routes outside with someone you trust
>
> [...]
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I find it difficult to understand how much fall practise for beginners is loosely recommended and accepted on here. To me it is only safe to practise in controlled situations on some indoor routes or certain routes outside with someone you trust
I suggested fall practice as it was quite clear that he was talking about having difficulties indoors, I wouldn't have suggested it on a real world vdiff, there's quite a difference and I think everyone is agreed upon that fact.
I started climbing three years ago, initially I was afraid of heights and couldn't get more than half way up my local wall at the time by any route, rainbow or otherwise. I had no confidence in myself or the equipment, it was only after being advised by a coach at the wall to try falling a few times on a top rope that I started to make progress, the fear of failing to make the move was gone and my climbing became much more fluid and efficient.
In reply to MikeYouCanClimb: Good advice here Mike.
My comment to any relatively inexperienced climbers on here, is to make sure you check out the profiles of who's handing out advice.
Just because you maybe wet behind both ears (we all have been) doesn't mean that advice given out by people only wet behind one ear, carries any credibility.
Of course the best option of all, is to take the lot with a pinch of salt, and get yourself either some professional instruction, or join a club.
And don't worry about what grade you climb - just enjoy it.
My comment to any relatively inexperienced climbers on here, is to make sure you check out the profiles of who's handing out advice.
Just because you maybe wet behind both ears (we all have been) doesn't mean that advice given out by people only wet behind one ear, carries any credibility.
Of course the best option of all, is to take the lot with a pinch of salt, and get yourself either some professional instruction, or join a club.
And don't worry about what grade you climb - just enjoy it.
In reply to martinlird:
Keep climbing and enjoying it- the confidence, and ability will come with time- since your beginning, you'll get there allot faster than you think!
Keep climbing and enjoying it- the confidence, and ability will come with time- since your beginning, you'll get there allot faster than you think!
In reply to martinturner: I started climbing this year seriously (i'd previously had a few "goes" over the last 3 years), I go a least once a week and at the weekend top roped a HVS 5a. so it can be done, practise makes perfect(ish) and it also helps if you have freinds who can show you what to do.
In reply to Paul Hyland:
Aye, and you were breathing out of yer arse for most of it
> (In reply to martinturner) at the weekend top roped a HVS 5a.
Aye, and you were breathing out of yer arse for most of it
In reply to Tony Naylor: well you were one of my "friends"!!
In reply to martinturner: It doesn't**matter what you are climbing as long as you are having fun.
** I was making you feel better, unless you are climbing mid e's you might as well be climbing stairs.
** I was making you feel better, unless you are climbing mid e's you might as well be climbing stairs.
practise makes perfect(ish) ?
Sorry to correct you but
Perfect practice makes perfect,
Practice just makes permanent
Sorry to correct you but
Perfect practice makes perfect,
Practice just makes permanent
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