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Which belay jacket should I get?

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 becca1990 04 Sep 2011
I am looking for a belay jacket, synthetic fill with a hood for Scottish winter. The best I have found so far is the Mountain Equipment Alpamayo but im worried it will be a bit thin for my needs (I get cold easily!).

I have also been looking at the Rab Photon (http://rab.uk.com/products/womens-clothing/primaloft_2/women-s-photon-jacke... which looks pretty good. Does anyone have experience of this jacket?

I will be very grateful for any advice or suggestions you can give! Thanks.
In reply to becca1990: I'm loving my ME Fitzroy.
 Siward 04 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990: I have a photon- assuming the current model is similar I would say its not really very warm. I think of it as a more versatile, lighter equivalent to a 300 weight fleece.

Something like the Patagonia DAS parka is much warmer, more similar to the Rab photon BELAY jacket which is 200g primaloft as opposed to 133g in the regular photon.
 The New NickB 04 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

Not sure what the latest model is like, but the 2009 Haglofs Barrierzone is the best I have tried in terms of compromise between warmth and bulk and has a great hood.
 payney1973 04 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990: have a look at the PHD mountain softwear http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=110&products_id=82

this is a fantastic jacket, great reviews and made to order specifically to your body shape.

a tad expensive but you get what you pay for

hope this helps

Lee
 thin bob 04 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:
Try Keela More parka style, good simple design. More like a parka. Rab Photon is nice, not as long.
 iksander 05 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990: Might be worth remembering that warmer = bulkier & heavier and also a jacket is not the only way to keep warm. Get fit, eat right (eg. hi carb dinner, hi cal breakfast), stay hydrated, avoid caffiene (if you're not hopelessly addicted like me!) and fags (nailed that one), and keep moving as much as possible (lead in blocks rather than alternate, leg raises etc. when you can when static), get your gloves and boots right - if you're still cold, then think about about a huge jacket otherwise it can easily fill your bag and empty your wallet.
 mlmatt 05 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

I brought an ME fitzroy off the forums a while back and have used it for 2 seasons of scottish winter. It's been a really good jacket. I've found it to be generously cut so that it fits over the top of all my other jackets. It seems to be reasonably hardwearing and very weatherproof too. Added to this is is also quite light.
 CurlyStevo 05 Sep 2011
In reply to iksander:
"(lead in blocks rather than alternate)"

I don't think that really adds up, the time you waste switching belays over will be far more than you will loose for carrying a mdoern light belay jacket and it's a load of hassel/faff. I think for most people alternate leading is the way to go when multipitch climbing in winter.

My Lowe Alpine Magma jacket only ways 450g (ish) packs down to the size of about a rugby ball (or a bit smaller) and has proved to be plenty warm enough.

It's also dead cheap!
 iksander 05 Sep 2011
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to iksander)
> "(lead in blocks rather than alternate)"
>
> I don't think that really adds up, the time you waste switching belays over will be far more than you will loose for carrying a mdoern light belay jacket and it's a load of hassel/faff.

Not sure what takes so long leading in blocks, most find it saves time?
 TobyA 05 Sep 2011
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> "(lead in blocks rather than alternate)"
>
> I don't think that really adds up,

Agreed. Besides anything else, most Scottish routes just aren't that big, if someone does two pitches in row, they've got to lead the bulk of the climb and get all the glory in the pub!
 TobyA 05 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

Becca, you can use the Photon as a belay jacket - see my review - http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2685 but its not super warm and you'll need to size it bigger to fit over your shell. My wife who is quite small wore my medium mens photon as a belay jacket this winter over her fleece and heavyish goretex shell and it was about the right size for that. The womans version is more fitted so you might need to size up further to get it to fit over your normal layers.

But if you really feel the cold (many women do more than men) you might consider going for something bigger like the RAB belay jacket, or Patagonia DAS parka or the Mountain Equipment equivalent. They are all bulky in the bag, but if it makes you enjoy climbing more, it's worth it! On generally what to look for in a belay jacket see: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1375
 JonJavlin 05 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990: Mountain Equipment Fitzroy! Truly awesome! especially if you like fluffy pockets too!
 jacktomlinson 05 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:
My favourite one I've tried was borrowed off a friend, but I intend to buy a Paramo Belay jacket. The added water-resitance and super cosyness makes them perfect!
almost sane 05 Sep 2011
In reply to jacktomlinson:

Another vote for the Paramo belay jacket, though I don't own one myself (too many other jackets to justify another one).

I like the toasty warmth, weather proofness, and I think a smock is less faff to put on whilst on a stance.

As for me, I already have 3 jackets I could use as belay jackets, and has been said, there is a trade off between bulk/weight and warmth.
My old Montane Solo Primaloft jacket is dead light, and adds some warmth, but not as much as my (bulkier and heavier) Mountain Hardwear Compressor, which is itself not as warm as my mahoosive and old Berghaus jacket.

I reckon you try what works for you.
My Berghaus is over 20 years old, the Montane Solo is over a decade old, and the MH Compressor is 4 years old, and they all still work well, and they all get good service on the hill.

You can usually get a synthetic jacket on sale at half price somewhere sometime, or you can look in TKMaxx.
Or you can leave the Big Brands behind. Decathlon do a belay jacket for under £50. Sports Direct will sell you a padded jacket you could use as a belay jacket for £20.
That way you can see what weight and warmth you need before spending £200 on a PHD Zeta...
In reply to becca1990:

Respect to the cheaper options here, however:

I feel the cold in winter and have experimented with various belay jackets. Many of the thinner ones I just find too thin to really be much use; they barely fend off the chill and certainly don't bring the instant warmth you want if you or another is starting to shiver.

I have an Arcteryx Fission SL, which is an excellent (albeit thinnish) extra layer when it has to be waterproof - cold and windy Scottish days that are also wet... I also picked up an Arcteryx Belay jacket off ebay - much thicker and ticks all the boxes if it isn't too wet and you don't mind carrying it; beware very oversized.

I also have an old Patagonia Micro-Puff pullover, which is used far more than the other two, very warm and much lighter, not enough on it's own for winter though.

 walkingOn 06 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990: I like my Mountain equipment Lightline
In reply to JonJavlin:
> (In reply to becca1990) Mountain Equipment Fitzroy!

+1 Brilliant bit of kit, not a winter climber but climb and boulder in winter in North Wales and also use it for walking around Bangor in the depths of winter... top bit of kit!

DC
 Ireddek 06 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

Hi I'm no ice climber or even very serious winter walker, but I do like to spend some time outside when it's lovely & snowy outside, but like you I feel the cold very quickly.

Last year I was totally set on buying the Mountain Equipment Alpamayo myself after reading loads about it on the web. Went & tried it on & it fitted ok. While I was in the shop the assistant advised me to try the Berghaus version too (I think it is the Ignite if memory serves me!) It fitted me better with other layers on, so I went with it instead. I've been very happy with it & it has served me well. Now when it's seriously cold I just throw on a baselayer, Buffalo Shirt & then the Berghaus when I stop for a breather. Naturally make sure you spend on good socks, gloves & woolly hats too as I couldn't believe the difference they can make!

Hope you find the prefect jacket for you. Primaloft 1 seems the way to go as a mate with a similar jacket but with Primaloft sport recons mine's warmer after I lend it to her once when she forgot hers at hockey during subbing.
In reply to Ireddek:

> Last year I was totally set on buying the Mountain Equipment Alpamayo [...] the assistant advised me to try the Berghaus [...] Ignite [Hoody]

The Alpamayo and Ignite are almost identical spec jackets. The ME has Drilite fabric on 'critical areas'; shoulders, etc. and hence is marginally heavier.

But both are only 100g body, and 60g sleeve Primaloft, which is rather light for a true winter belay jacket, especially if the OP feels the cold. Neither ME nor BH do a warmer women's synthetic duvet.

(You won't find the fill weight details on the Berghaus site, because they're a bunch of 'tards, even though they've been told a number of times that these details are rather useful... Fortunately, I asked them the direct question:

Ignite Hoody
Body - 100g/sq m
Arms - 60 g/sq m

Ignite Belay Parka
Body - 133 g/sq m
Arms - 100 g/sq m
)
 Kai 09 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

I use this one. Very light for its warmth.

(arcteryx Dually)

http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Dually-Belay-Parka
 CurlyStevo 09 Sep 2011
In reply to captain paranoia:
I have a lighter belay jacket than either of those (lowe alpine magma) and for me it's proved to be plenty warm enough on top of what I wear for climbing.

(on my top half, base layer, micro fleece and summer weight stretchy soft shell jacket)

I'm not convinced you need a massive bulky heavier belay jacket.

 CurlyStevo 09 Sep 2011
In reply to captain paranoia:
incidentally I noticed my jacket lofts very well whilst some of the thicker primaloft jackets don't maybe this is in someway down to the contstruction?
In reply to airbournegrapefruit: 2nd that on the ME Fitzroy - great jacket
 SCC 09 Sep 2011
In reply to Simonfarfaraway:
> (In reply to airbournegrapefruit) 2nd that on the ME Fitzroy - great jacket

Will everyone PLEASE stop telling people that.
How am I supposed to find a good deal on one, if everyone else is looking too?

Show some consideration would you?

Ta.

Si
In reply to SCC: There was a good deal in Cotswold in Glasgow on Fitzroys last time I was there, very recently.
 SCC 09 Sep 2011
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Cheers Nick, have checked their website and local stores - sadly no mention or sight of the Fitzroy.

Si
 hokkyokusei 09 Sep 2011
In reply to SCC:
> (In reply to Simonfarfaraway)
> [...]
>
> Will everyone PLEASE stop telling people that.
> How am I supposed to find a good deal on one, if everyone else is looking too?
>

If it helps I can point out that I chose not to get the Fitzroy, because I felt the arms were way too short.
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> I have a lighter belay jacket than either of those (lowe alpine magma)

Interesting. I have the Magma pants (another TKM bargain...), and they feel thicker than the insulation in the BH Ignite Hoody body. Mine are Primaloft Sport filled, which is a stiffer, less compressible wadding than PL1. That may explain the differences in lofting that you have noticed between your jacket and the PL1-filled offerings (assuming your jacket is a similar vintage to my trousers).

> I'm not convinced you need a massive bulky heavier belay jacket.

It depends who you are, and what you're doing, in what conditions. The OP specifically says she gets cold easily. As has been observed, women can feel the cold more than men (for whatever reason, even though they generally have a higher percentage of body fat; it may simply be down to the higher mass of heat-generating muscle in men).

I nearly froze my tits off this year, whilst walking with Mike C & David Scott, wearing merino base top & bottom, 150-ish weight fleece, waterproof jacket & trousers, thick PL1 gloves and decent hat and hood, with a 60g PL1 jacket over the top. Granted, it was cold and very windy, but I wouldn't have wanted to stand around belaying in that setup for very long at all. That's why I bought the 100/60g Ignite Hoody for a bit more warmth (thicker body, and hood). In similar conditions, I wouldn't want to belay in that, either, as it wouldn't be warm enough for me.
 CurlyStevo 09 Sep 2011
In reply to captain paranoia:
the primaloft magma jacket I have is PL1 total weight 450 gm but I can't tell the actual weight of primaloft in it.

"I nearly froze my tits off this year....."

Fair enough I've got pretty cold on belays before I got the belay jacket in scotland, but not since, but I'm sure I will get cold again wearing it, it's the nature of the game no? But then on shit days I'd climb with more clothes on also.

Before I got the belay jacket when climbing I used to wear on my top half for very bad days weather :

1 thin base layer, 1 merino base layer, 1 micro fleece, 1 thick fleece, a hard shell, and a warm balaclava (I climbed regularly in scotland for 3 seasons with this set up (before that a buffalo which I hated)). I think this is less than the set up you got cold walking in and certainly less than my belay jacket set up! I run fairly warm. But I did used to overheat when climbing and then get too cold on the belays.

One thing I have noticed is a lot of warmth can be lost through the legs. On cold days I wear fleece trousers under stretchy soft shell trousers (and would consider thin base layer under that) and then when climbing put a hard shell trousers on. I do want to tweak my lower half clothing though as I'd like to get rid of the hard shell trousers but I think I'd get wet for snow belays etc. Maybe a membrane based soft shell would be best? But then I think I'd overheat on the walk in?
 Dane1 10 Sep 2011
In reply to becca1990:

Didn't realise it was a lady asking. Eddie Bauer makes a woman's specific Peak IV. But it is down. Arcteryc Duelly is good but the sizing for men is weird. Can't imagine how the sizing works for women. Also the woman's specific MEC Tango....one of the best synthetic belay jackets. But if you get cold easily I'd also rethink down..and talk to your mates about what you intend to climb and where.

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/WomensClothing/InsulatedOuterwear/Synthetic/P...

Maybe the best of the bunch...
I have a friend who swears by this one.

Fission SV Jacket
http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Womens/Jackets/Fission-SV-Jacket-W#...

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