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More EU attempts to sneak in anti-tampering legislation. This is not just about boy racers or irresponsible speed-freaks tuning their bikes, if this becomes reality we could end up banned from buying pattern (non OEM) parts, and we all know how expensive manufacturers' branded parts are.
Please sign the petition!
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5334
Please sign the petition!
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5334
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
And it gets even worse. The whole bunch of laws they want introduced includes:
-Mandatory long sleeve day-glo jackets. (Uuurgh)
-All bikes fitted with ABS. (Fricking dangerous)
-Bikes older than 7 years banned form city centres. (Introducing in France but tipped for EU legislation)
-All bikes fitted with engine computer taco to allow police to check the bike's bhp, max speeds attained, emissions, etc.
And it gets even worse. The whole bunch of laws they want introduced includes:
-Mandatory long sleeve day-glo jackets. (Uuurgh)
-All bikes fitted with ABS. (Fricking dangerous)
-Bikes older than 7 years banned form city centres. (Introducing in France but tipped for EU legislation)
-All bikes fitted with engine computer taco to allow police to check the bike's bhp, max speeds attained, emissions, etc.
In reply to PeterM:
Signed.
Once they have finished with Bikes, they will start on cars. Limit power, no self-modifications - even changing oil or using Halfords bulbs instead of OE.
Signed.
Once they have finished with Bikes, they will start on cars. Limit power, no self-modifications - even changing oil or using Halfords bulbs instead of OE.
In reply to Mr Lopez:
Wonder what the reasoniing is behind that? Emissions? Noise? Will I have to move out of Edinburgh or sell my bike? I'd be totally bummed (and not in a good way!) If i had to sell my old Fj, wouldn't be so bothered about leaving Edinburgh, tho. Then again, it may be cheaper to buy a newer bike...that I probably can't work on myself
> (In reply to Mots d'Invers)
> -Bikes older than 7 years banned form city centres. (Introducing in France but tipped for EU legislation)
Wonder what the reasoniing is behind that? Emissions? Noise? Will I have to move out of Edinburgh or sell my bike? I'd be totally bummed (and not in a good way!) If i had to sell my old Fj, wouldn't be so bothered about leaving Edinburgh, tho. Then again, it may be cheaper to buy a newer bike...that I probably can't work on myself
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
Can anyone give a link to the legislation or consultation etc that this has all come from??
Can anyone give a link to the legislation or consultation etc that this has all come from??
In reply to Lisa_K:
Some info here http://www.ridersarevoters.org/how-the-eu-anti-tampering-regulation-is-prog...
Some info here http://www.ridersarevoters.org/how-the-eu-anti-tampering-regulation-is-prog...
In reply to Mr Lopez:
Won't be a pattern pig anyway There would be a massive outcry if this legislation was to include cars, which logically, it should.
> (In reply to PeterM)
> Don't know, but for anyone living in a city is a real pig of a law.
Won't be a pattern pig anyway There would be a massive outcry if this legislation was to include cars, which logically, it should.
In reply to Mr Lopez:
I'll be looking at the BMF website too - thanks. Maybe have to join before I get my licence to get my voice in with the rest of the masses on this one.
I'll be looking at the BMF website too - thanks. Maybe have to join before I get my licence to get my voice in with the rest of the masses on this one.
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
Sledgehammer vs nut, really, and will do nothing to deal with the problem of inexperienced bikers buying bikes which are way too powerful for their skills and reactions, then trying to kill themselves on the A65 every sunny weekend.
I notice there is a trend towards nannying in driving technology - anyone see the new Focus ad? Apparently it can 'read' road signs such as speed limits. Only a matter of time before it applies them.
Sledgehammer vs nut, really, and will do nothing to deal with the problem of inexperienced bikers buying bikes which are way too powerful for their skills and reactions, then trying to kill themselves on the A65 every sunny weekend.
I notice there is a trend towards nannying in driving technology - anyone see the new Focus ad? Apparently it can 'read' road signs such as speed limits. Only a matter of time before it applies them.
In reply to Lisa_K:
The BMF is a great source of information, as is the MAG website. Here is a link to some detail on the proposals:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/vehicle/safe...
The "facts" presented carry a seductive message of incresed safety, but turn a blind eye to the many additional risks these modifications could pose.
The BMF is a great source of information, as is the MAG website. Here is a link to some detail on the proposals:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/vehicle/safe...
The "facts" presented carry a seductive message of incresed safety, but turn a blind eye to the many additional risks these modifications could pose.
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
I've heard people mention this, but it seems very unclear to me what is actually being proposed.
The proposal says:"[motorbikes will be]equipped with designated measures to prevent tampering of a vehicle's powertrain".
What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
It also says that the proposal will be to prevent modifications that increase torque, power or top speed.
That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
Finally it says: "After a modification of the powertrain, a vehicle shall comply with the technical requirements of the initial vehicle category and subcategory, or, if applicable, the new vehicle category and subcategory,"
Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
I'd like to sign the petition, but I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would be petitioning against!
I've heard people mention this, but it seems very unclear to me what is actually being proposed.
The proposal says:"[motorbikes will be]equipped with designated measures to prevent tampering of a vehicle's powertrain".
What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
It also says that the proposal will be to prevent modifications that increase torque, power or top speed.
That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
Finally it says: "After a modification of the powertrain, a vehicle shall comply with the technical requirements of the initial vehicle category and subcategory, or, if applicable, the new vehicle category and subcategory,"
Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
I'd like to sign the petition, but I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would be petitioning against!
In reply to Markel:
They don't know. They are writing the laws without having a clue whether they are enforceable or not. Specifically for the anti-tampering, they are running a contest where people can submit proposals of how it can be achieved/enforced. The prize for the chosen design is 500Eur...
Yes. It also means you cannot use aftermarket more efficient tyres, air filters, spark-plugs, jetting, etc.
You cannot make any modification that increase the performance, and any part/spare that can be used for racing is automatically illegal in the roads.
Not even the legislature proposers know what they are trying to propose http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=6949
> (In reply to Mots d'Invers)
> The proposal says:"[motorbikes will be]equipped with designated measures to prevent tampering of a vehicle's powertrain".
>
> What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
>
> What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
They don't know. They are writing the laws without having a clue whether they are enforceable or not. Specifically for the anti-tampering, they are running a contest where people can submit proposals of how it can be achieved/enforced. The prize for the chosen design is 500Eur...
> It also says that the proposal will be to prevent modifications that increase torque, power or top speed.
>
> That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
>
> That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
Yes. It also means you cannot use aftermarket more efficient tyres, air filters, spark-plugs, jetting, etc.
> Finally it says: "After a modification of the powertrain, a vehicle shall comply with the technical requirements of the initial vehicle category and subcategory, or, if applicable, the new vehicle category and subcategory,"
>
> Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
>
> Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
You cannot make any modification that increase the performance, and any part/spare that can be used for racing is automatically illegal in the roads.
> I'd like to sign the petition, but I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would be petitioning against!
Not even the legislature proposers know what they are trying to propose http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=6949
In reply to Mots d'Invers: sorry, but I'd come out of Europe altogether.....petition signed!
In reply to Mr Lopez:
Good explanations Mr Lopez. The legislature proposers who are responsible must be really fu**ing stupid. Or, they are really anti any activity that involves risk.
Rich.
Good explanations Mr Lopez. The legislature proposers who are responsible must be really fu**ing stupid. Or, they are really anti any activity that involves risk.
Rich.
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
I`ve signed it and posted the link to some friends who will also sign it i`m sure.
What bloody next?
I`ve signed it and posted the link to some friends who will also sign it i`m sure.
What bloody next?
In reply to Mots d'Invers: Signed, if I want to mod my bike I bloody well will, and as for wanting info on how fast I have traveled they can f*** right off!!
If they want to know how fast let them catch me, it will be my own stupid fault for not spotting the speed trap, but as for them being able to look at a tacho... no way
If they want to know how fast let them catch me, it will be my own stupid fault for not spotting the speed trap, but as for them being able to look at a tacho... no way
In reply to Mots d'Invers: signed & passed on to others,.
In reply to Mots d'Invers: I think its time to purchase the MV Agusta F4RR rather than sign the petition.
In reply to The Outlaw Josey Wales:
http://www.carsession.com/news/photos/Miscellaneous/MV-Agusta-F4-RR-6132609...
http://www.carsession.com/news/photos/Miscellaneous/MV-Agusta-F4-RR-6132609...
In reply to The Outlaw Josey Wales: Though the F3 is damned more affordable.
http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/actualites/2010/salon-eicma-milan.php?ph...
Doesnt Barra have an MV Agusta?
http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/actualites/2010/salon-eicma-milan.php?ph...
Doesnt Barra have an MV Agusta?
In reply to Mots d'Invers: Its pretty worrying that anyone has the power to pass that sort of law...especially since there doesn't even seem to be any attempt to cover it up as some sort of safety spin. Seems overly nanny-state when each country has bike tests of its own and if theres problems then that would be the way to address them instead of this sweeping assumption...
In reply to Mots d'Invers: Signed, what a load of sh*t, honestly, I'd like to throttle the tit/tits who thought this up and I don't even ride anymore........
In reply to The Outlaw Josey Wales:
Think he's got an RSV Mille.
> (In reply to The Outlaw Josey Wales) Though the F3 is damned more affordable.
>
> http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/actualites/2010/salon-eicma-milan.php?ph...
>
>
> Doesnt Barra have an MV Agusta?
>
> http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/actualites/2010/salon-eicma-milan.php?ph...
>
>
> Doesnt Barra have an MV Agusta?
Think he's got an RSV Mille.
In reply to Mots d'Invers: Signed, something some idiot has drempt up to justify it's job at taxpayers expense. (Ignore the spelling this morning)
In reply to Markel:
Mr Lopez has answered your questions very comprehensively, but there are other aspects to this that are perhaps more worrying. This is, to my knowledge, the third or fourth time that legislation has been proposed demanding leg protectors be fitted on bikes.
MAG and BMF have, on every previous occasion commissioned rigorous research proving that they create a far bigger hazard than they avoid. It's been demonstrated, repeatedly, that leg protectors will, under the vast majority of impact types, trap the rider's leg, preventing him or her from rolling away from the bike. The rider would be dragged down the road attached to the bike, leading to quite ghastly injuries. Yet, they keep bringing it back up. Now they are proposing air bags for bikes, which is equally stupid.
If they tried to do this to cars, there would be an uproar, but bikes and bikers are still seen to be an underclass, and this stream of proposed legislation is nothing more than victimisation.
Restrictions on power, stepped licencing, requirements to have headlights permanently on, none of these contribute in any meaningful way to road safety, yet they've been inflicted on bikes. Where is the matching requirement for cars?
> (In reply to Mots d'Invers)
>
> I've heard people mention this, but it seems very unclear to me what is actually being proposed.
>
> The proposal says:"[motorbikes will be]equipped with designated measures to prevent tampering of a vehicle's powertrain".
>
> What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
>
> It also says that the proposal will be to prevent modifications that increase torque, power or top speed.
>
> That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
>
> Finally it says: "After a modification of the powertrain, a vehicle shall comply with the technical requirements of the initial vehicle category and subcategory, or, if applicable, the new vehicle category and subcategory,"
>
> Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
>
> I'd like to sign the petition, but I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would be petitioning against!
>
> I've heard people mention this, but it seems very unclear to me what is actually being proposed.
>
> The proposal says:"[motorbikes will be]equipped with designated measures to prevent tampering of a vehicle's powertrain".
>
> What does that mean? How can they stop you from working on the powertrain?
>
> It also says that the proposal will be to prevent modifications that increase torque, power or top speed.
>
> That seems a bit crazy. It means (for example) that I could not put a bigger front sprocket to improve mpg at motorway speeds say, because it might increase top end speed a bit, even if I wasn't going to use it, and even though you could quite legally buy a bike that might do another 80mph on top of that as standard!
>
> Finally it says: "After a modification of the powertrain, a vehicle shall comply with the technical requirements of the initial vehicle category and subcategory, or, if applicable, the new vehicle category and subcategory,"
>
> Now I'm totally lost. Does that mean you can make modifications, as long as you register them or if they make no difference to the performance?
>
> I'd like to sign the petition, but I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would be petitioning against!
Mr Lopez has answered your questions very comprehensively, but there are other aspects to this that are perhaps more worrying. This is, to my knowledge, the third or fourth time that legislation has been proposed demanding leg protectors be fitted on bikes.
MAG and BMF have, on every previous occasion commissioned rigorous research proving that they create a far bigger hazard than they avoid. It's been demonstrated, repeatedly, that leg protectors will, under the vast majority of impact types, trap the rider's leg, preventing him or her from rolling away from the bike. The rider would be dragged down the road attached to the bike, leading to quite ghastly injuries. Yet, they keep bringing it back up. Now they are proposing air bags for bikes, which is equally stupid.
If they tried to do this to cars, there would be an uproar, but bikes and bikers are still seen to be an underclass, and this stream of proposed legislation is nothing more than victimisation.
Restrictions on power, stepped licencing, requirements to have headlights permanently on, none of these contribute in any meaningful way to road safety, yet they've been inflicted on bikes. Where is the matching requirement for cars?
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
Yes he did. Thanks to him, and thanks to you for posting it. Signed..
> Mr Lopez has answered your questions very comprehensively...
Yes he did. Thanks to him, and thanks to you for posting it. Signed..
In reply to Mots d'Invers: The one thing in it all that would really put me off is having to wear hi viz. I am there I can be seen. The onus shouldnt be on me to spark the car drivers finger out of his arse and his mind out of nuetral.
I dont like being forced by legislation to protect myself from myself. Whatever next compulsory wearing of helmets for climbers?
I dont like being forced by legislation to protect myself from myself. Whatever next compulsory wearing of helmets for climbers?
In reply to The Outlaw Josey Wales:
Personally I would like to see the following made compulsory for climbers;
Full face helmets. you never know..
Full body airbag systems when bouldering. Those boulderers go really high.
In-situ top ropes on all routes in the uk. Leading is far too dangerous.
Ban multi-pitch climbing. Don't need it anyway with the top ropes..
Ensure ice axes and crampons are not sharp and dangerours.
Feel free to add to my riduculous ideas. I should be a European legislator.
Rich.
> Whatever next compulsory wearing of helmets for climbers?
Personally I would like to see the following made compulsory for climbers;
Full face helmets. you never know..
Full body airbag systems when bouldering. Those boulderers go really high.
In-situ top ropes on all routes in the uk. Leading is far too dangerous.
Ban multi-pitch climbing. Don't need it anyway with the top ropes..
Ensure ice axes and crampons are not sharp and dangerours.
Feel free to add to my riduculous ideas. I should be a European legislator.
Rich.
In reply to Mots d'Invers:
I guess tuned-up biker depicted on these images should sign it too
http://goo.gl/tuSpJ
> More EU attempts to sneak in anti-tampering legislation.
I guess tuned-up biker depicted on these images should sign it too
http://goo.gl/tuSpJ
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