UKC

After progressing pretty quickly, I've decided to focus on my weaknesses for the next couple weeks down my local centre. Apart from some minor footwork issues, my main weakness is slopers. I have a real problem with those buggers, I've got to the point where I've realised that putting most of my weight onto my feet means I can at least get some semblance of hope on it, but other than that, I'm completely stumped when I get to it.

Just looking for some advice on how to tackle them really.

In reply to Cypher:

Apart from the obvious solution: Climbing more on slopers.

You could also invest in a beastmaker and use the 35s and 45s on that.

In reply to Cypher:

>"I've got to the point where I've realised that putting most of my weight onto my feet means I can at least get some semblance of hope"

I'll be intrested to read other peoples thoughts here as I'm no expert on grappling with them.

Firstly I'd say that there is no one technique the suits all slopers.

Sometimes I find I'm better to just crimp on a small section of them; sometimes they can be pinched offering little in the way of a pulling oppertunity but giving just enough to allow your feet to do the work.

If you are going down the classic maximum contact friction style then I think the important think is avoid making adjustment and keeping the contact area weighted i.e. don't unload the hand by taking too much weight off with footwork.

In reply to davo: Aye, looked into a beastmaker, having naff plasterboard walls in a rented house would mean I've have to ask the landlord if I could make a frame for it and drill it to the wall in the garage, but I can't see him kicking up too much of a fuss over it.

In reply to Cypher:
I try and keep my elbow low, stops your hands sliding off

In reply to Cypher: Ive got one of these hope it helps http://highball-climbing.com/products/prd_03.shtml

In reply to Cypher:

One of these should do the trick.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Chisel_wood_24mm.jpg

In reply to Cypher:
how to deal with slopers? troll them into apoplexy then ban them when they bite...
(old school UKC users may know what i'm on a bout, apologies for those who don't have a clue)

In reply to Cypher:

Clearly climbing more on slopers will help as they require you to be strong open-handed so if you've been crimping everything you can you won't have developed that strength.

The most important thing is body positioning though. As slopers don't always allow you to pull up on them (unless you're a beast) you'll need to use them to get in balance to use your legs to move up.

In reply to Cypher: I don't have too much of a problem with slopers any more but can't really nail down a 1,2,3 procedure for dealing with them. I suppose the first step is to try and focus on holding holds with an open grip as opposed to a crimp. This is also better for your tendons. Keeping the hand strong but your arm relaxed also seems to help and once you have committed to the hold, whatever you do, don't start wiggling your fingers in the hope that you will somehow improve your hold because you won't. Obviously the best way to get good at them is to just do lots of practice on them.

In reply to Cypher:
I'd say there isn't a general rule for dealing with every sloper but a few things I found useful:

- Lots of forearm strength, you need to be able to maintain good hand position.

- try and plan the move off the sloper before you reach it so you get your 'exit' body position right and don't have to adjust on the sloper.

- body tension, body tension, body tension

Good luck!

In reply to Cypher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MlribAX3Y&feature=related
I find having large hands helps too.

In reply to Cypher:

Climb on slopers more and you'll improve at climbing them - of course. Unless you have no body awareness, you'll naturally adapt your technique to climb on them in a particular way (over time).

That said, as others have indicated there are specific techniques to climbing them, sloper problems will require better body awareness (where your centre of gravity is positioned in relation the holds being used) than on problems with edges. This is because a crimp can potentially give a greater range of movement whereas a sloper often has to be pulled in one direction only.

I take it you often get the feeling like you're stuck and can't move after grabbing the sloper? Maybe buy the self-coached climber (book) to get some knowledge on body awareness but mainly climb them more and experiment. Often changing your body position by as little as cm's can make the difference between failure and success. Be Patient.

Friction is also very important on slopers, more so than on edges. If you only climb at TCA, the friction has been poor lately as it's been hot and stuffy inside. Let the temperatures cool and brush the holds to death.

I personally wouldn't bother trying sloper problems until the conditions are right because they can quickly eat through your skin..

In reply to Cypher:

A chisel?

In reply to Cypher:
generally you must keep your body weight underneath the sloper and not pull out on it too much. Also get as much of your hand (and often more towards the palm) in conact with it as possible.

In reply to all posters:

Thanks guys for all the constructive help, least I have some pointers to go on with

In reply to Cypher: As someone else said, get right underneath them, as low as possible. Bringing your gravity under it gives you more 'pulling power', similar to loading your feet on a rock over.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Yes, indeed. I'd even focus on solid core before hitting on any tricky sloppy set-ups.

In reply to Reach>Talent:


Could anyone expand on this? It's something that I suspect I don't think about enough...

Getting low under slopers and having your centre of gravity right under the hold is definitely something that I've found effective, though.

In reply to Ramblin dave:
Drat wrote a fairly long reply to this and accidentally deleted it while correcting a typo

Body tension helps keep you in control while you are on the 'unstable' sloping holds. It means you apply less force to them when you are on steep ground and can pull the 'correct way' on them. Without wanting to rip off Johny Dawes too much, good body tension enables you to move smoothly from one stable position to another so you don't disturb the critical sloping hand hold.

In reply to Ramblin dave: Body tension means your postural muscles are able to keep your body in certain and at times very difficult position without. It means your body core is able to provide support to your limbs, so they can generate enough leverage.

If you forget for a while about climbing and footwork techniques, egyptians, flags, twists, etc. and you hit on a steep wall keeping your position open, then you will understand role of body tension.

The mighty Malcolm Smith may well help to understand it too

youtube.com/watch?v=uAoc6w_OUjA&

The keywords are: stay open, long and big moves, front to the panel/rock, bad footholds.

Climbing problems on sloppers are quite specific in such way applying the masterclass'y footwork technique may be impossible, then body tension generated by the postural muscles is the key.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

>"Could anyone expand on this? It's something that I suspect I don't think about enough..."

I think the general idea is that if you can use your core musles to hold your body ridged and close to the wall your centre of gravity will be closer to the wall this will reduce the moment pulling you off the wall and hence reduce the force required to be exerted at the points of contact.

Also a ridged frame (body) will also more effectively transfer forces from the contact points through your body allowing the various forces at contact points to be better balanced and measure to suit the holds availible.

In short, it's akin to changing from two wheel drive to four wheel drive. If one foot or hand has a little more grip that the others then a tense body will better distribute your weight to that point.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I've thought of a better analogy...

Consider placing a 30cm ruler over a 20cm gap. The ruler will easily stay in place and bridge the gap. Now consider placing a strip of Plasticine across the gap. It will quickly sag and fall into the gap. The rule has lots of body tension and the Plasticine very little.

Now consider yourself placing a foot on a high left hold and a hand on a hold out right. Your body is now the bridge. If you can maintain body tension then you'll stay in place long enough to reach up and take the next hold. If your body is like the Plasticine with little body tension you'll sag and fail.

In reply to JLS:

If all else fails crimp them

In reply to shark:

See my 09:54 post. :¬)

In reply to JLS:

Nice model for "body tension", but I'm not quite sure how it relate to the OP's question about slopers. I find plasticine sticks slopers much better than a ruler...

In reply to Marek:

>"I'm not quite sure how it relate to the OP's question about slopers"

It doesn't. It relates to Ramblin dave's question about body tension! :¬)

I spent years living in the peak, climbing on grit and hating slopers - even the mention of them had me sweating more than a fat bird in Greggs with no money!!

Then one day was at the climbing works and this dude said "hey man stay low"

Thats the trick the higher you go the weaker you get - swing round 'em like a pivot point and it'll all work out

Happy crimping!

In reply to Cypher:
Plan A is avoid them, i.e., find a ripple somewhere to get a more positive finger tip in or try a different body angle or try to pinch something or jam something or anything. There's got to be something better than *just* that sloper.
Plan B is attention to detail. A true sloper will have slightly different curves, surfaces, textures. Look carefully and use what's there. A seemingly trivial difference can ... well, make a difference.
Plan C is to be dynamic. A sloper may stick for a short while but will as likely as not start to creep. Never in a good way. So when you've decided the best way to use it, get on with it and don't dither.

PS: I hate slopers.

In reply to JLS:

And very nicely it does too!

Thanks everyone, will watch the video when I get home and bear this stuff in mind next time I'm flopping off some grim slopeyness.

My a-level physics explanation for why getting low works is that a) slopers are generally rubbish for pulling across sideways, so you want to be in a position where you can pull straight into the hold, ie down, and b) the force due to friction increases with the amount of force pushing into the hold so, peversely, the more of your weight you get on to a friction hold, the better it gets. I actually hit this on a route at the wall last night, where the big breakthrough was realising that I shouldn't try to get up on to a pair of nice footholds, get my weight on my feet and just use the slopey hold for balance, but would be better off just using the foothold that was directly under the sloper and keeping everything in line with the handhold.

In reply to Cypher: Crikey, I've been here too long. A Sloper question without reference to game and fine wines....

In reply to toad: I too am surprised there hasn't been any piss takes on this thread to do the the poster formally known as...

as for the OP, my technique is to climb on Limestone, or when pushed to climb cracks. Problem solved.