In reply to MikeRobbins:
> (In reply to Calder) ??
>
> The E grade is only given for routes climbed in the pure on-sight style.
No it's not, it's given for every trad route in the UK. It gives very appropriate information for the headpoint. You can't claim the onsight of an E8 in this style but you can claim the headpoint.
> Buys is certainly a talented individual but look at the facts: He placed a high side runner, multiple crash mats and had a second belayer, and had multiple attempts on the route: hardly a pure ascent.
Yes, it's not the greatest style, but it's failed to have an ascent for 14 years. I'll be very surprised if this is on sighted, or flashed, in the next 20 years due to the technical difficulty. The "side runner" is the runner. You'll notice that it was reported with clarity, that's the important point.
> The problem with UKC is that the majority of posters put too much weight on numbers and not enough on purity.
If you understood the context, and given it was Jordan, who has on sighted many routes above E6, in this instance your point is a bit irrelevant, but of course, sometimes, you are correct.
> Mike.
Do you need to head your own advice -
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=479536&v=1#x6605415