UKC

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

All good advice,

My head torch always lives in a dry bag in the top zip pocket of my rucksack, so i know where it is.


Not much issue about pushing my grade, but after last year, i would consider a bothy bag an essential item as much as a map and compass.

Belay jacket is a bit of a luxury item though.

Think I'll switch a litre of water to 500ml of Ribenna though, i like this idea. I never usually drink the full litre anyway. Usually to busy being scared (or should that be enjoying) the climbing!

Agreed!!!

In reply to talon_guy:

Crampons and axes on the outside!

Never seen the need for a belay jacket but then I run warm and basically wrap up as soon as I have a belay.

Also you only need half a rack - your mate has the other half.

I've a Crux 38 litre sack and it's more than big enough.

ALC

Crampons on the inside, in a nice tough crampon bag, but axes on the outside for sure.

I could get away without a belay jacket, but what i carry is more of an extra layer. A nice pertex / primalot thing weighing 400grams. A bit of luxury!

What usually happens is one person gets the rack and the bothy bag, one carries the rope.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I'm a skinny git, I need all the insulation I can get!


She'll probably hit you for saying that!

In reply to talon_guy:

Always carry the rope in - then swap with partner and take the rack on the walk out.

Carrying wet/frozen ropes is character building....... once!

In reply to talon_guy: Take only 1 rucsac between the lot of you, ropes/jackets/trousers/helmet can be worn on the walk in(+rack and harness if you wish), first aid in pocket, food in pocket, water in pocket if it fits or otherwise hot drink in the rucsac insulated by your spare gloves, otherwise keep your spare gloves in your pocket, putting on cold gloves means cold hands.

In reply to Calum Nicoll:

On the walk in, I tend to be quite hot compared to the rest of day, maybe wearing just a thermal on top, so i'd have lots of clothes to carry.

You might be better off taking a normal size bag, and a smaller leader pack.

In reply to Calum Nicoll:
I can see the benefit of your super lightweight approach but your winter route walk-in is only from surprise car park to millstone edge

In reply to talon_guy:
If you have access to a photo copier a copy of likey routes and your map section is lighter than full maps and books, laminate for water proofing and re-use them

In reply to blanchie14c:

Genius.

In reply to blanchie14c:

And I thought Coire an t-Sneachda was a short walk!

In reply to Gfunk:


I'm here all week, try the Veal...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


Or your car keys <he adds with a hint of bitterness and regret>.

In reply to HIGHTOWER:

Why would i hit him??? It's true!!! Hes very well trained

(a.k.a under the thumb...)

In reply to TobyA:

And don't put the key for the CIC Hut in your camera case, assuming you won't drop it, and then subsequently drop it <he adds with a hint of bitterness and regret>.

40l for me but have compression straps for once everything has been took out and geared up.

In reply to blanchie14c:

I think I'd have a bag with my running shoes in if I were heading to millstone to have a go at embankment No.2.
And possibly a car with the engine running by the side of the road.

In reply to talon_guy: I'm a firm believer in belay jackets. Cold muscles work more efficiently and you won't loose as much moisture through sweat which will cool you down when you have to do that long belay at the end of the day. Then you can get away with only drinking 500ml of fluid in a day.

In reply to talon_guy: Put the clothes in the one rucsac and have one of you carry it then.

In reply to blanchie14c: Haha, that made me smile.

In reply to talon_guy: Do it like cunningham and don't take a helmet, not even for the bike ride there!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/mXzVNFrLzk0&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=1

In reply to Calum Nicoll:
I hate the single pack approach summer or winter, it makes for a very uncomfortable second / walkin carrying all that weight and means you can't get to belay jackets, emergency kit or food / drink when you may need to.

In reply to Tom Ripley:
Do you own a belay jacket? Mine weighs about 400 grams and packs down pretty small but is worth it's weight in gold. Took me about 5 seasons to actually buy one. In any case I'd rather climb with less layers and weight on me (but the extra layers in my nearly empty sack) and sweat less and then be warmer on belay. I'm a firm believer that attempting to use the same layering system when climbing as when standing still for an hour or two on belay is not the way to go and actually waists time in the long run (getting started when cold, hot aches etc)

In reply to talon_guy:

sounds pretty sane to me.

what i do, which may or may not work for you or anyone else:

a days food is 2500kcals worth of bits in a little dry sack stuffed in the pocket of the belay jkt.

only clothing carried is belay jkt, shell and extra gloves. softshell trousers negate w/proof trousers.

bothy bag only goes out on big days with long approaches (3hrs plus. ie where slogging it out could be harder than staying put).

first aid is a roll of tape, and 2 crepe bandages in a ziplok.

helmet on head.

main headtorch in pack. little e-lite around neck or wrist.

i too go with a larger pack if im lugging gear (ie not setting out already geared up, harness on etc). got sick of jamming gear in. these days a stripped 60L can weigh similar to a 35L and the extra weight is worth the convenience. currently im actually using a MHW 70L with everything stripped off it - super easy at belays, weighs 1kg, good with gloves on. total overkill but i just love the pack. a minor plus is that approachs here are often thru forest, where stooping under trees means a frosted rope at the start of the day - being able to dump the whole rope inside the bag just gives an edge thats nice, keeping gloves drier from the start.

In reply to Calum Nicoll:
UKC never forgets my son...

Have a great season

I'm glad other people do this as well! My kit for 1-day winter excursions varies from 11.5kg (this seems to keep me really comfortable, and includes a huge rack and hard-wearing rope), to under 5kg (including an extremely minimalist rack for moving together).

My tip for gloves - I wear thin soft-shell gloves for climbing, and have the thick and extremely warm XL Montane mitts to go over the top of them at belays (as well as being a backup). The result is warm and dry-ish hands at the beginning of climbs and thus no hot aches. When seconding the mitts are also still usable on their own, and I can even remove ice screws with them.

In reply to ice.solo:
Yeah I also climb with a large sack - 50l although I think it's not that much bigger than some sacks advertised as 38l now a days I think easyness of packing and ability to actually get everything (minus axes) INSIDE the bag are plus points.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Some great ideas, I use an osprey variant 28 perfect for everything, usually take a sig bottle and fill up on route, will try the hot orange or ribena this winter with cup handy for a drink, Arcteryx Gamma sk pants or m.e soft-shell g2 pants saves taking waterproof trews, Ive never bothered with bothy bag or first aid kit just some 3m tape, head torch always put in shell Jkt pocket and I'll take a lightweight Arcteryx Atom sv belay Jkt about 450g goggles or sunnies, soft-shell gloves, climbing gloves spare hat or balaclever! Ill take granola bars and a bar of chocolate,banana.strawberry laces my mates favourite!! I run very hot so mostly walk in with a long sleeve icebreaker and will put on a fitted soft-shell Jkt, getting on bit so lightweight is my approach from now on,

In reply to talon_guy:

Who cares what your bag weighs?
It's completely irrelevant.
It's too heavy regardless of all that soopah doopah lite weight gear.
Yer claes don't breathe like it said on the tag in the shop.
You're cold and that idiot is brown pointing AGAIN instead of getting his arse up the pitch.
And worse than that, when it's YOUR turn- your baws are shrinking as you contemplate the crux moves.
Anyway, you're at least a stone overweight yourself and haven't trained for a year so why the hell would the weight of the bag matter?

In reply to Wee Davie:
Nice work W Davie

In reply to blanchie14c:

I enjoyed your Calum Nicoll baiting, sir.

In reply to Calum Nicoll:

From experience only taking one sac on the walk ins doesn't really make for very comfortable walking, and you often spend a lot of time walking. Instead take two fell running sacs and when climbing put one inside the other for the second to carry, or as I usually do just wear it as it is so low volume and light that you really don't notice it anywhere near as much as 50l of flapping cordura. (I know people will say that running sacs are not strong enough for British winter thrutching, but actually I haven't found this to be the case.)

In reply to CurlyStevo:

A belay jacket weighting 400g, doesn't sound that warm?? I agree, something is better than nothing.

IMO, if a jacket is comfortably warm enough to wear on belays, it weights too much, too bulky to hang off harness, hence bother to take up route. Carrying it in a sack, creates it's on problems, on the steeps!

I wear a Puffball Vest, warmer than nothing, easier to put on over jacket, packs down to mitt size.

How much does a pack weight, depends how little stuff you can carry, for a days climbing?

Stuart

In reply to a lakeland climber:
Out of curiosity, what do you wrap up in? I find it easier to just stick a jacket over the top.

In reply to talon_guy:

I have a 40l sack which weighs around 10-11kg, so to be honest that sounds about right. I manage to fit most things fully inside the rucksack (I usually manage to have axes and crampons inside the sack.

I have gloves, food and a warm drink stashed inside the belay jacket drybag already. Headtorch is always in the top of the sack. I tend to bury all the safety gear right at the bottom of the sack. And as others have said, photocopying your planned routes and the relevant sections of the map and then laminating them is the way to go.

In reply to Stuart the postie:

It's the lowe alpine magma hoody a good bit of kit. The primaloft in it lofts really well better than many heavier jackets and it's toasty, the hood helps a lot IMO.

The outer has a dwr and is wind and rain resistant but it's not very thick which is where I think the weight savings were made. I've used it very successfully for two seasons and so far no rips or scuffs but I only wear it on belays. I run quite warm anyway so for me it's a great balance between bulk weight and warmth, but yes you are right it is a compromise and I wouldn't remain toasty on the colder windier days indefinately if I just stood around wearing it.

It weighs 446g and packs down in it's stuff sack to about 25% bigger than a largish chalk bag.

I pretty much always climb with my rucksack on and it's light and small enough you don't notice it in there. I think it's just about small and light enough to clip on to the back of your harness but I've not tried..

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: The only key I've ever managed to lose in my entire life was the CIC key. We are part of an elite club who will probably never be allowed into the SMC as a result!

Of course, it does make you bag lighter...

In reply to talon_guy:

not read to the bottom so this might have been said, but after an epic last year I'd suggest every person in the party have a compass on their person (not in the bag, in zipped a jacket pocket or string round the neck, and a map.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thanks for your reply, I agree, a hood does make a huge difference.

I usually wear a thermal, Montane Prism (older one, 25g insulation), shell, Puffball ontop at belays. The hood on Prism makes a big difference when up, however doesn't fit over helmet, need to remove lid, put back on over, shell hood over lid, a pain......

Puffball Vest with hood, would still stuff to similar size, minimal weight increase, now when will they (ever) make these????

Stuart

In reply to Stuart the postie:

They never would. They'd look ridiculous.

You should try and R1 hoody, goodbye spindrift!

In reply to Stuart the postie:
"A belay jacket weighting 400g, doesn't sound that warm?? I agree, something is better than nothing."

I sometimes use my Rab Photon Hoodie as a lightweight belay, not sure exactly how much it weighs but it's very light and can't be much more than ~500g

In reply to talon_guy:

I'm not sure of the weight of my sack but I'd actually planned on packing it all up tonight just to see what it's like on my back.

Normally I end up carrying msot of our combined rack. For some reason me and my partners walking paces differ so much that I generally arrive something siully like 30/40 minutes before him on long approach walks. For this reason my pack is a little heavier to slow me down and hiw a little lighter to speed him up.

As my sack I currently use a POD black Ice (which seems to be a pretty standard winter sack). I've recently realised that it is a little on the large side, but that's ok with me. It means that I can put my rope and crampons in my sack for the walk in keeping everything neat and tidy and making sure I don't spike anyone from behind. It's big enough for me to pack in my crampons, rope, helmet, belay jacket, waterproof trousers (and outer though I tend to wear it while climbing), harness, rack, food, 1litre bottle and 1 500ml flash and first aid kit.

I don't generally carry a bothy bag or anything. I find having a slightly larger sack makes it easier to just cram it full of stuff when you're rushing in bad weather etc. As far as the "climbing superlight thing" goes I know I'm not the lightest climber, but I'll train to loose some weight and get fitter so that my sack weight doesn't bother me.

In reply to talon_guy:

Re: layers. I generally wear just an Icebreaker and my shell for walk ins, climbing and anything where I'm moving. If it's really cold I have an Arc'teryx micro grid fleece (got on sale for £25!!) to throw on top of the Icebreaker. In my bag I have a TNF Redpoint Optimus Primaloft jacket for belays or standing still, which is pretty light and works a treat. I also wear softshell trousers so I have lightweight shell trousers in my bag, and apart from spare gloves, hat etc that's all I take for clothing. Works well for me.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Hello young Tom,

Burds wear body warmers with hoods, fur trim, some of them would 'still get it'.

Minimalist function, weight, packability, surely more important than style. I'll bet you look silly, like a seal, with your R1 Hoody up, ticks the boxes though!

I can get similar protection from spindrift, with Prism hood up, don't really like to though (and I hate balaclavas), head movements not as 'free'.

Was refering to the belay mode, pull on vest, snuggle into the warmth, a puffy hood over my shell hood, would be nicer, just like a proper big jacket (without sleeves).

Stuart

Ps. I admired your trip to Peru, made me fell happy.

In reply to Stuart the postie:

I bet they would.

>I'll bet you look silly, like a seal

I have a reputation for being like a seal, because I am big and blubbery and I once got gripped at Gogarth and jumped off into the sea.

Cheers it was pretty good fun, but quite scary being somewhere so remote.