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A poll:
How do you carry your crampons to and from the route and why? Assuming of course that the approach doesn't require you wearing them.
I'm in the fix to outside of sack camp. I don't like putting sharp pointy things in the sack and having them on the outside means that I don't need to open the sack when I need to put them on.
ALC
How do you carry your crampons to and from the route and why? Assuming of course that the approach doesn't require you wearing them.
I'm in the fix to outside of sack camp. I don't like putting sharp pointy things in the sack and having them on the outside means that I don't need to open the sack when I need to put them on.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I don't like putting sharp pointy things in the sack and having them on the outside means that I don't need to open the sack when I need to put them on.
It hurt enough when I stuck mine into my thigh falling into deep snow, sticking them in your sack sounds awful! I'd strap them somewhere safe
I don't like putting sharp pointy things in the sack and having them on the outside means that I don't need to open the sack when I need to put them on.
It hurt enough when I stuck mine into my thigh falling into deep snow, sticking them in your sack sounds awful! I'd strap them somewhere safe
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Inside your sack at/near the top. You are going to have to stop to put them on, anyway.
Wrap them in an old gaiter/karimat or buy a crampon bag if you're worried about sharp things. Having sharp pointy things outside your back has more potential for jagging folk, ripping jeckets etc.
Davy
Inside your sack at/near the top. You are going to have to stop to put them on, anyway.
Wrap them in an old gaiter/karimat or buy a crampon bag if you're worried about sharp things. Having sharp pointy things outside your back has more potential for jagging folk, ripping jeckets etc.
Davy
In reply to Davy Virdee:
All instructors and mates that I know, say inside for those reasons and just to save faff.
All instructors and mates that I know, say inside for those reasons and just to save faff.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Inside, near the top for ease of access, inside a football boots bag.
Inside, near the top for ease of access, inside a football boots bag.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I used to be an 'outside' person, but now I nearly always put them inside. This only changes if I have a certain rucksak with me that has one of those zigzag bungees on the back - then, at the end of the day when I am tired and just want to get home, I stuff the crampons in that.
I used to be an 'outside' person, but now I nearly always put them inside. This only changes if I have a certain rucksak with me that has one of those zigzag bungees on the back - then, at the end of the day when I am tired and just want to get home, I stuff the crampons in that.
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Inside, within a crampon bag located at a handy place usually the top. I have seen more than one person get to SCNL or the CIC to notice their crampons are not on the outside of their bags where they attached them as well.
Inside, within a crampon bag located at a handy place usually the top. I have seen more than one person get to SCNL or the CIC to notice their crampons are not on the outside of their bags where they attached them as well.
In reply to a lakeland climber: varies depending on length of walk in, sack size,
but usually under lid where most rucsacs put a rope strap, but my rope is usually inside rather than hanging off
Rarely fully inside sac, never strapped to outside
but usually under lid where most rucsacs put a rope strap, but my rope is usually inside rather than hanging off
Rarely fully inside sac, never strapped to outside
In reply to a lakeland climber: inside unless there is no room left in which case I would make sure they are tied down really well and make regular attempts to check they are still attached.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Normally they start the day on the inside and finish the day on the outside.
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Back in the 1980s virtually everyone carried crampons strapped to the outside of their rucksack as the sacks generally had straps for just this purpose. However I haven't seen (not that I've looked particularly hard) many modern sacks with such straps. Perhaps this is a reason why putting crampons inside (under lid) has become more popular.
I have a crampon bag but tend not to use it as it's a faff.
ALC
Back in the 1980s virtually everyone carried crampons strapped to the outside of their rucksack as the sacks generally had straps for just this purpose. However I haven't seen (not that I've looked particularly hard) many modern sacks with such straps. Perhaps this is a reason why putting crampons inside (under lid) has become more popular.
I have a crampon bag but tend not to use it as it's a faff.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: I carry mine in a crampon bag under the top cover of my pack. Easy to get at, won't damage anything inside the pack and won't damage me or others by being exposed on the outside of the pack. Job done.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
No they didn't.
> Back in the 1980s virtually everyone carried crampons strapped to the outside of their rucksack as the sacks generally had straps for just this purpose.
No they didn't.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Inside, with the points facing each crampon in an mini ikea bag. Fairly unlikely to get stabbed that way. Outside is just asking for them to fall off.
Inside, with the points facing each crampon in an mini ikea bag. Fairly unlikely to get stabbed that way. Outside is just asking for them to fall off.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Again I used to stick them on the outside of my pack, but after walking into the back of several people packs (generally from them stopping suddenly and for no apparent reason) I've decided I'd rather not have this happen to me.
I normally just wrap then up in a piece of hardwearing canvas and stick them somewhere in my pack. Generally at the top, but it doesn't really matter that much as there isn't too many items in my bag and I'm always trying to put my crampons on before I need them, just to avoid having to put them on in extremis!
Again I used to stick them on the outside of my pack, but after walking into the back of several people packs (generally from them stopping suddenly and for no apparent reason) I've decided I'd rather not have this happen to me.
I normally just wrap then up in a piece of hardwearing canvas and stick them somewhere in my pack. Generally at the top, but it doesn't really matter that much as there isn't too many items in my bag and I'm always trying to put my crampons on before I need them, just to avoid having to put them on in extremis!
In reply to mattrm:
>Outside is just asking for them to fall off.
I know I'm swimming against the tide here ...
So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
ALC
>Outside is just asking for them to fall off.
I know I'm swimming against the tide here ...
So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> I know I'm swimming against the tide here ...
>
> So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
>
> So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Inside in a crampon bag with pliers, cable ties and a few self-locking nuts and bolts.
Inside in a crampon bag with pliers, cable ties and a few self-locking nuts and bolts.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Lets hope you can still say that at the end of 'over 31 years of climbing'
Mate of mine, many years ago, started climbing on a Salowa Scissors left foot and a Grivel right foot, (forgot the model,) both of which he had found out on the hill.
> (In reply to mattrm)
>
> So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
>
> ALC
>
> So how come in over 30 years of climbing I've not had mine come loose?
>
> ALC
Lets hope you can still say that at the end of 'over 31 years of climbing'
Mate of mine, many years ago, started climbing on a Salowa Scissors left foot and a Grivel right foot, (forgot the model,) both of which he had found out on the hill.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Just don't be one of the idiots getting into a packed Aiguille de Midi cable car with crampons on the outside and spikes facing out.
Hard to believe but true.
Just don't be one of the idiots getting into a packed Aiguille de Midi cable car with crampons on the outside and spikes facing out.
Hard to believe but true.
In reply to sam1971:
Just don't be one of the idiots getting into a packed Aiguille de Midi cable car with crampons on the outside and spikes facing out.
Hard to believe but true.
Or the idiots wearing their crampons and then standing on peoples feet!
Just don't be one of the idiots getting into a packed Aiguille de Midi cable car with crampons on the outside and spikes facing out.
Hard to believe but true.
Or the idiots wearing their crampons and then standing on peoples feet!
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Usually on the outside, on the inside if not take a rack etc.
I have lost a pair from the outside once though, I am very careful now.
Usually on the outside, on the inside if not take a rack etc.
I have lost a pair from the outside once though, I am very careful now.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Outside, using the compression straps or a bungy thing on the back. Doesn't matter if they get wet. Easier access. Much less likely to puncture anything. No possible need for crampon bag. More room inside for other stuff. Mine have never fallen off in more than thirty years - just put them on properly. Aways been puzzled by people putting them inside, though not as puzzled as I am by people putting rope or harness or even helmet on the outside.
Outside, using the compression straps or a bungy thing on the back. Doesn't matter if they get wet. Easier access. Much less likely to puncture anything. No possible need for crampon bag. More room inside for other stuff. Mine have never fallen off in more than thirty years - just put them on properly. Aways been puzzled by people putting them inside, though not as puzzled as I am by people putting rope or harness or even helmet on the outside.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Line bandits put axes and crampons inside, keeps the opposition guessing... force of habit i guess for those used to climbing in t'alps.
Line bandits put axes and crampons inside, keeps the opposition guessing... force of habit i guess for those used to climbing in t'alps.
In reply to Stuart the postie:
Plus you have to play the game, who has the lightest teenie weeny Diddy sac.....Yep rope,rack,axes,poons inside, it's an art form, although lunch is a mars bar!
Plus you have to play the game, who has the lightest teenie weeny Diddy sac.....Yep rope,rack,axes,poons inside, it's an art form, although lunch is a mars bar!
In reply to Davy Virdee:
Alternatively buy the cheapest 2 litre plastic bottle of pop/ water, cut the top quarter off, stuff an old cloth down the bottom for the front points and shove your crampons inside. Might not be bombproof for a full season but it works well enough.
Davie
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
>
> Wrap them in an old gaiter/karimat or buy a crampon bag if you're worried about sharp things.
>
> Wrap them in an old gaiter/karimat or buy a crampon bag if you're worried about sharp things.
Alternatively buy the cheapest 2 litre plastic bottle of pop/ water, cut the top quarter off, stuff an old cloth down the bottom for the front points and shove your crampons inside. Might not be bombproof for a full season but it works well enough.
Davie
In reply to DR:
I'll say, take them out top of sack, place them on snow, watch your poons glissade/roll down the mountain!!!
Stuart
> (In reply to Davy Virdee)
> [...]
>
> Alternatively buy the cheapest 2 litre plastic bottle of pop/ water, cut the top quarter off, stuff an old cloth down the bottom for the front points and shove your crampons inside. Might not be bombproof for a full season but it works well enough.
> [...]
>
> Alternatively buy the cheapest 2 litre plastic bottle of pop/ water, cut the top quarter off, stuff an old cloth down the bottom for the front points and shove your crampons inside. Might not be bombproof for a full season but it works well enough.
I'll say, take them out top of sack, place them on snow, watch your poons glissade/roll down the mountain!!!
Stuart
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Inside, in an old gaiter.
The elastic on the outside of my rucsac was removed after an unfortunate incident on Comb Gully in which said elastic caught on a downward pointing spike. A seemingly straightforward step up became increasingly difficult to complete, and gaining balance for the next move became inexpicably impossible. When the penny dropped, the assisted step down was exciting and the contortions neceessary to free the elastic were entertaining for everyone else.
Inside, in an old gaiter.
The elastic on the outside of my rucsac was removed after an unfortunate incident on Comb Gully in which said elastic caught on a downward pointing spike. A seemingly straightforward step up became increasingly difficult to complete, and gaining balance for the next move became inexpicably impossible. When the penny dropped, the assisted step down was exciting and the contortions neceessary to free the elastic were entertaining for everyone else.
In reply to Stuart the postie:
Not seen that happen yet but then the trick is to take em out of the bottle before putting on the ground . Point taken though.
Davie
Not seen that happen yet but then the trick is to take em out of the bottle before putting on the ground . Point taken though.
Davie
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Always on the inside. In a crampon bag, spikes facing each other. Near the top of my pack. If you're stopping to gear up, then it's hardly much of an extra faff to have to open the pack and pull 'em out. The only things on the outside of my pack are my axes and helmet.
Always on the inside. In a crampon bag, spikes facing each other. Near the top of my pack. If you're stopping to gear up, then it's hardly much of an extra faff to have to open the pack and pull 'em out. The only things on the outside of my pack are my axes and helmet.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
A long time ago I used to have them on the top outside with each crampon's points into a thick piece of light foam (rigid sort) and wrapped in some canvas-like material. These days I have them on the bottom outside, points facing each other and only the front points requiring the rubber protectors. Never, ever had them come loose - use strong shock cord - or had any injuries resulting from this. If they are inside your sack there might be a tendency to not put them on as early as is required which is often the cause of some accidents.
Stuart
A long time ago I used to have them on the top outside with each crampon's points into a thick piece of light foam (rigid sort) and wrapped in some canvas-like material. These days I have them on the bottom outside, points facing each other and only the front points requiring the rubber protectors. Never, ever had them come loose - use strong shock cord - or had any injuries resulting from this. If they are inside your sack there might be a tendency to not put them on as early as is required which is often the cause of some accidents.
Stuart
In reply to DR:
Oh well, I guess someone had to...
Ben
> (In reply to Stuart the postie)
> ...Point taken though.
> ...Point taken though.
Oh well, I guess someone had to...
Ben
In reply to a lakeland climber:
was it the 90s you were referring to.... Mr Nisbet seems to not remember that particular fashion in the 80s.
I put mine on bungee at the back of pack never ripped anything yet... statistics tell me it's only a question of time though =)
was it the 90s you were referring to.... Mr Nisbet seems to not remember that particular fashion in the 80s.
I put mine on bungee at the back of pack never ripped anything yet... statistics tell me it's only a question of time though =)
In reply to French Erick: I started winter climbing in he early 80's and always put them on the top (outside) with straps....and still do! Placing them point to point means there are no points facing upwards...
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I’m an inside man, too. Wrap them in an old teatowel, stick them inside one of those big Lowe Alpine bumbags, and stick this inside the sack. When I started in the early 1980s I used to tie them on top (which, in relation to the Andy N / ALC discussion, did seem to be a more common practice in those days), but at some stage I switched to inside. This was partly through fear of losing one/both, but more because strapping them on tight meant that whatever was in the lunch pocket of the rucksack got squashed.
Incidentally, re people losing crampons, I was on Stuc a’Chroin last winter with a friend who found one. From what we could tell in the subsequent attempts to find the owner, it could have come adrift as far back as 2007 – although it didn’t look like it had been lying out in the open air for several years.
I’m an inside man, too. Wrap them in an old teatowel, stick them inside one of those big Lowe Alpine bumbags, and stick this inside the sack. When I started in the early 1980s I used to tie them on top (which, in relation to the Andy N / ALC discussion, did seem to be a more common practice in those days), but at some stage I switched to inside. This was partly through fear of losing one/both, but more because strapping them on tight meant that whatever was in the lunch pocket of the rucksack got squashed.
Incidentally, re people losing crampons, I was on Stuc a’Chroin last winter with a friend who found one. From what we could tell in the subsequent attempts to find the owner, it could have come adrift as far back as 2007 – although it didn’t look like it had been lying out in the open air for several years.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I assume there is no intersection between the set of people who wrap up their crampons in all sorts of bags etc. to stop them poking things and the usually vociferous set of people who are obsessed with cutting out all excess weight almost to the point of recklesness.
I assume there is no intersection between the set of people who wrap up their crampons in all sorts of bags etc. to stop them poking things and the usually vociferous set of people who are obsessed with cutting out all excess weight almost to the point of recklesness.
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
Aye get mine point to point too. Wrap some of the bungee round points to avoid losing them... I could possibly lose them but they would be wrenched away, meaning that with that kind of force on my rucksack losing poons could be the least of my worries (for a few seconds anyway).
I don't mind what people do, as long as the system is safe and suits them.
I would hate the faff a crampons bag... that's a personal view though so don't get annoyed.
I have developped a system that works well and has been tested very regularly over the last few years... but still keep an eye out for better/ more efficient ideas whilst out. Being stuck in one's way is a bad thing whatever!
Aye get mine point to point too. Wrap some of the bungee round points to avoid losing them... I could possibly lose them but they would be wrenched away, meaning that with that kind of force on my rucksack losing poons could be the least of my worries (for a few seconds anyway).
I don't mind what people do, as long as the system is safe and suits them.
I would hate the faff a crampons bag... that's a personal view though so don't get annoyed.
I have developped a system that works well and has been tested very regularly over the last few years... but still keep an eye out for better/ more efficient ideas whilst out. Being stuck in one's way is a bad thing whatever!
In reply to The New NickB:
Point to point with their straps wrapped around them, bungy looped back through to avoid loss.
Point to point with their straps wrapped around them, bungy looped back through to avoid loss.
In reply to Conquistador of the usless:
I always found pointy things on the outside excellent for keeping at bay those pesky foreigners waiting for the first telepherique who have never heard of queuing.
>
> And crampons inside, keeps the opposition guessing... force of habit I guess for those used to climbing in t'alps.
> And crampons inside, keeps the opposition guessing... force of habit I guess for those used to climbing in t'alps.
I always found pointy things on the outside excellent for keeping at bay those pesky foreigners waiting for the first telepherique who have never heard of queuing.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I tend to think that because its often possible to leave the bag and retrieve it after the route I can afford to take quite a lot / not worry too much about weight as I won't be carrying it on the route anyway.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
>
the usually vociferous set of people who are obsessed with cutting out all excess weight almost to the point of recklesness.>
I tend to think that because its often possible to leave the bag and retrieve it after the route I can afford to take quite a lot / not worry too much about weight as I won't be carrying it on the route anyway.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Oy! stop spoiling the smallrucksackist's fun - its all some of look forward to.....
Oy! stop spoiling the smallrucksackist's fun - its all some of look forward to.....
In reply to French Erick:
Correct, that's how I remember it too. I rarely saw folk cary in the sack in the 80's, it came in fashion in the early 90's, probably around the time Karrimor / Berghaus stopped providing crampon straps on the top of their sacks.
Erick: I'm suprised you remember the 80's..................you carry your age well!!
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
> was it the 90s you were referring to.... Mr Nisbet seems to not remember that particular fashion in the 80s.
>
> was it the 90s you were referring to.... Mr Nisbet seems to not remember that particular fashion in the 80s.
>
Correct, that's how I remember it too. I rarely saw folk cary in the sack in the 80's, it came in fashion in the early 90's, probably around the time Karrimor / Berghaus stopped providing crampon straps on the top of their sacks.
Erick: I'm suprised you remember the 80's..................you carry your age well!!
In reply to a lakeland climber: wherever they fit - often nowhere but outside the pack!
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I tend to be more concerned about the weight on the walk in than on the route!
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> I tend to think that because its often possible to leave the bag and retrieve it after the route I can afford to take quite a lot / not worry too much about weight as I won't be carrying it on the route anyway.
> I tend to think that because its often possible to leave the bag and retrieve it after the route I can afford to take quite a lot / not worry too much about weight as I won't be carrying it on the route anyway.
I tend to be more concerned about the weight on the walk in than on the route!
In reply to a lakeland climber: Outside. At least 45 years incident free. They've been on the back or top depending on the rucksack used. I prefer on the back where they are secured with a bungee and points facing one another.
When I bought my last pair of crampons I toyed with getting a crampon bag but it just seemed extra faff as well as taking up space in the rucksack. The shop assistant suggested a crampon bag was recommended by Glenmore Lodge as it eliminated the risk of other members in a group banging into the crampons on the outside. Haven't heard any reports of injuries caused by doing so (have you?) and it wasn't enough to persuade me.
When I bought my last pair of crampons I toyed with getting a crampon bag but it just seemed extra faff as well as taking up space in the rucksack. The shop assistant suggested a crampon bag was recommended by Glenmore Lodge as it eliminated the risk of other members in a group banging into the crampons on the outside. Haven't heard any reports of injuries caused by doing so (have you?) and it wasn't enough to persuade me.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
im a bit of an all rounder, even carrying them in the case on the outside at times.
my current main winter pack has a dyneema pocket on the outside, so that has taken over, but before:
inside if i can fit them or for public transport.
outside when its on and i will be wanting them.
outside in case for lightweight small pack trips that involve public transport to trailheads.
the case also gets used to carry spectres and screws.
im a bit of an all rounder, even carrying them in the case on the outside at times.
my current main winter pack has a dyneema pocket on the outside, so that has taken over, but before:
inside if i can fit them or for public transport.
outside when its on and i will be wanting them.
outside in case for lightweight small pack trips that involve public transport to trailheads.
the case also gets used to carry spectres and screws.
In reply to a lakeland climber: I heard of someone being killed because he stumbled and fell into his partners rucksack. Unfortunately the rucksack had the crampons strapped on with the points facing out.
Either inside or outside is good, who cares - but maybe it's a good idea to make sure the points are somehow protected.
Either inside or outside is good, who cares - but maybe it's a good idea to make sure the points are somehow protected.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Inside the sac near the top in the crampon bag, you can sit on the crampon bag whilst your putting them on, watch the bag doesn't blow away though when you get up! Happened to one of my mates 'once' not cheap those crampon bags!
In reply to a lakeland climber: I've got one of those rucksacks with the crampon bag sewn on the back on the outside: seems to solve the problem for me, and takes either a litre bottle or a baguette in the Summer.
In reply to dmhigg:
Yep me also - got a Millet Peuterey 40 sack which takes the crampons in an external pouch which work really well....better than having to mess about dragging the poons from inside the body of the sack.....
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) I've got one of those rucksacks with the crampon bag sewn on the back on the outside:
Yep me also - got a Millet Peuterey 40 sack which takes the crampons in an external pouch which work really well....better than having to mess about dragging the poons from inside the body of the sack.....
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I've always carried mine inside because that was the only way to carry them with my Lowe Alpine rucsac. It's driven me mad and I've found it to be a real faff. So I've deliverately trading the sac in for a new one (Pod Black Ice) with bungees that will hold crampons exactly where I want to carry them - on the outside.
Jim
I've always carried mine inside because that was the only way to carry them with my Lowe Alpine rucsac. It's driven me mad and I've found it to be a real faff. So I've deliverately trading the sac in for a new one (Pod Black Ice) with bungees that will hold crampons exactly where I want to carry them - on the outside.
Jim
In reply to Jim Braid:
I wonder if they also recommend not going climbing as it would eliminate the risk of falling off and hurting yourself. Sounds more like a marketing ploy to me.
> The shop assistant suggested a crampon bag was recommended by Glenmore Lodge as it eliminated the risk of other members in a group banging into the crampons on the outside.
I wonder if they also recommend not going climbing as it would eliminate the risk of falling off and hurting yourself. Sounds more like a marketing ploy to me.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
My North Face Prophet has an excellent pouch on the outside for it which I use.
My new Black Diamond Speed 30, has a toughened patch with 4 wee loops you can use to strap your poons to using the crampon buckle.
Haven't used it in anger yet but trying to get them on there is a pain in the arse so I cut 4 wee holes in an old crampon bag and used plastic ties to attach it to the sack, sewed the side of it up and cut an opening in the top and glued a couple of bits of Velcro on. Works a treat.
Much prefer them on the outside, means I can carry more mars bars!
My North Face Prophet has an excellent pouch on the outside for it which I use.
My new Black Diamond Speed 30, has a toughened patch with 4 wee loops you can use to strap your poons to using the crampon buckle.
Haven't used it in anger yet but trying to get them on there is a pain in the arse so I cut 4 wee holes in an old crampon bag and used plastic ties to attach it to the sack, sewed the side of it up and cut an opening in the top and glued a couple of bits of Velcro on. Works a treat.
Much prefer them on the outside, means I can carry more mars bars!
In reply to a lakeland climber: In the sack in a crampon bag.
In reply to a lakeland climber: At the start of the day my sack is packed with military precision with my crampons in a bag inside at the top, towards the end of the day crampons and everything else could be just about anywhere, inside or out, strapped tight or dangling loose!!!
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