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What is it like is it any good?
My partner wants to go there on Saturday to do some longer/ MP routes, but (and I hear he has form on this), he has just done his MIA training and is desperate to get some MP personal climbing in; Am I being conned into visiting a middling crag for his benefit or is it well worth a visit in its own right?
My partner wants to go there on Saturday to do some longer/ MP routes, but (and I hear he has form on this), he has just done his MIA training and is desperate to get some MP personal climbing in; Am I being conned into visiting a middling crag for his benefit or is it well worth a visit in its own right?
In reply to andic:
Yes of course it is well worth a visit in its own right, with many very good routes. However, it is exposed to any weather going and can be somewhat green, so I'd only go at this time of year if the weather is particularly good.
Yes of course it is well worth a visit in its own right, with many very good routes. However, it is exposed to any weather going and can be somewhat green, so I'd only go at this time of year if the weather is particularly good.
In reply to andic:
Hen cloud is well worth a visit, not sure what kind of condition it will be in at the moment, but there are some great routes. Although I'm sure it has it's own grading system not quite in track with the rest of the world! have fun!
Hen cloud is well worth a visit, not sure what kind of condition it will be in at the moment, but there are some great routes. Although I'm sure it has it's own grading system not quite in track with the rest of the world! have fun!
In reply to andic:
One of the very best grit crags in the Peak District. Expect to be tired at the end of the day!
One of the very best grit crags in the Peak District. Expect to be tired at the end of the day!
In reply to andic:
Awesome crag. Nothing really multi-pitch though unless you belay pointlessly en route (as to be fair is the custom on one or two routes).
jcm
Awesome crag. Nothing really multi-pitch though unless you belay pointlessly en route (as to be fair is the custom on one or two routes).
jcm
In reply to andic: Hen Cloud is in some ways the best crag on grit. For an E1 leader, you'll have a stack of the meatiest, toughest HVS pitches known to mankind to go at:
Bachelor's LH: comes joint top of all grit HVSs with Suicide Wall for me. This one is harder. It's nails.
Delstree: A funny introduction gives access to one of the the steepest, most sustained jamming crack/grooves you'll ever climb (well, on grit). And it gets even harder at the top.
Hen Cloud Eliminate: This one really pushes the definition of HVS! Similar to, but harder than the other two.
The E1s (except Encouragement, which has a short but brutal crack pitch) are generally kinder, and smaller, if rather bold. They require a very different skill-set. Bulwark is very nice, so is Solid Geometry, but don't miss Chicken: a really ace little route (but hard!).
The outlook is fantastic, the rock superb (but can be dirty) and it's quiet. Unbeatable, so long as you're going well and are up for a fight.
I've not done much on the multi-pitch area, but what I have was superb.
Bachelor's LH: comes joint top of all grit HVSs with Suicide Wall for me. This one is harder. It's nails.
Delstree: A funny introduction gives access to one of the the steepest, most sustained jamming crack/grooves you'll ever climb (well, on grit). And it gets even harder at the top.
Hen Cloud Eliminate: This one really pushes the definition of HVS! Similar to, but harder than the other two.
The E1s (except Encouragement, which has a short but brutal crack pitch) are generally kinder, and smaller, if rather bold. They require a very different skill-set. Bulwark is very nice, so is Solid Geometry, but don't miss Chicken: a really ace little route (but hard!).
The outlook is fantastic, the rock superb (but can be dirty) and it's quiet. Unbeatable, so long as you're going well and are up for a fight.
I've not done much on the multi-pitch area, but what I have was superb.
In reply to andic: ooh, i'd love to do a few routes on Hen Cloud.
Hen Cloud is superb. Prepare to find the grades a little stiff.
In reply to andic: I spent a lot of time at Hen Cloud in the past. It's very underrated and is a really great place to climb. As others have said, the gradings may give a bit of a surprise..
In reply to andic: great climbing, quieter than Roaches but what has been said above, I'd say the grades are at least one grade lower than what the actually are.
In reply to Removed User:
Agreed. The superb Bachelor's Left Hand, surely one of the greatest routes on gritstone, was one of the few HVSs I ever failed on. Well, I got up it, but I rested on a runner just before the crux, which was a failure as far as I'm concerned. But what a great place. I've lost track of the number of times I took beginners up the Arete.
Agreed. The superb Bachelor's Left Hand, surely one of the greatest routes on gritstone, was one of the few HVSs I ever failed on. Well, I got up it, but I rested on a runner just before the crux, which was a failure as far as I'm concerned. But what a great place. I've lost track of the number of times I took beginners up the Arete.
In reply to Removed User:
Delstree looks fantastic too. I took pictures of it for my Peak book from an abseil rope, and from close up it looked extremely fierce for its grade. One of the cruellest tricks you could play on anyone, if they felt a bit unsure about it, would be to say: 'Don't worry. Just go round to the top and look down it and you'll see it's quite friendly really!'
Delstree looks fantastic too. I took pictures of it for my Peak book from an abseil rope, and from close up it looked extremely fierce for its grade. One of the cruellest tricks you could play on anyone, if they felt a bit unsure about it, would be to say: 'Don't worry. Just go round to the top and look down it and you'll see it's quite friendly really!'
In reply to andic:
> What is it like is it any good?
>
It's a brilliant crag with some excellent route. >
In reply to andic:
Encouragement is suberb, I got a friend to lead up the thuggy second half.
Delstree is absolutely superb.
Encouragement is suberb, I got a friend to lead up the thuggy second half.
Delstree is absolutely superb.
In reply to Removed User:
Roger. In December it will almost certainly be grim.
> (In reply to Removed Userandic)
>
> Hen Cloud is superb
>
> in August
>
> Hen Cloud is superb
>
> in August
Roger. In December it will almost certainly be grim.
In reply to andic: It's the best crag in Staffordshire. Could be grim this time of year though.
Do some with him there and then tempt him over to the Roaches to do MP routes like Ruby Tuesday and Valkyrie and stuff.
Do some with him there and then tempt him over to the Roaches to do MP routes like Ruby Tuesday and Valkyrie and stuff.
In reply to abr1966:
Underrated?
Quote from Western Grit: The superb castellated buttresses of Hen Cloud offer some of grit’s finest crack climbs and some excellent bold buttress routes as an added extra. Perched above a steep bank the positions are superb as is the outlook. Despite facing south the crag is inclined to be green and lichenous and as such is not a good destination after damp weather.
The OP might want to read the last sentence through.
Chris
> I spent a lot of time at Hen Cloud in the past. It's very underrated and is a really great place to climb. As others have said, the gradings may give a bit of a surprise..
Underrated?
Quote from Western Grit: The superb castellated buttresses of Hen Cloud offer some of grit’s finest crack climbs and some excellent bold buttress routes as an added extra. Perched above a steep bank the positions are superb as is the outlook. Despite facing south the crag is inclined to be green and lichenous and as such is not a good destination after damp weather.
The OP might want to read the last sentence through.
Chris
In reply to James Oswald:
I seem to be in the minority; I always find the second pitch easier!
> (In reply to andic)
> Encouragement is suberb, I got a friend to lead up the thuggy second half.
>
> Encouragement is suberb, I got a friend to lead up the thuggy second half.
>
I seem to be in the minority; I always find the second pitch easier!
In reply to andic:
In addition to all the good routes there, it's also nearer to the caff than the Roaches
In addition to all the good routes there, it's also nearer to the caff than the Roaches
In reply to Chris Craggs, and everyone
Ah I don't yet own a copy of western grit and being tight thought it was cheaper and possibly more informative to ask on here.
It has been
Thanks for the replies
Andy
Ah I don't yet own a copy of western grit and being tight thought it was cheaper and possibly more informative to ask on here.
It has been
Thanks for the replies
Andy
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Yes - The Roaches, Hen Cloud & Ramshaw; geographically Hen Cloud is roughly in the middle
> (In reply to andic)
>
> Middling?!
>
> Middling?!
Yes - The Roaches, Hen Cloud & Ramshaw; geographically Hen Cloud is roughly in the middle
n reply to andic:
I've only lead to VS there and seconded to HVS but most the climbs we did (and the reputation is ) were stiff in the grade.
The crag is quite well known for often being green during winter, normally only a crag I consider during dry weather and normally the summer.
The climbing it's self was top notch though.
I've only lead to VS there and seconded to HVS but most the climbs we did (and the reputation is ) were stiff in the grade.
The crag is quite well known for often being green during winter, normally only a crag I consider during dry weather and normally the summer.
The climbing it's self was top notch though.
In reply to andic:
I went there regularly in the winter while the guide was being produced and it was fine. Baltic on occasions, but there are not-too-green bits which are fine in the winter. I suspect they dry fairly quickly as well - certainly if you were looking to site a washing line on a Peak crag HC would offer some of the optimum conditions for it, so they should do - though certainly there'll be bits that don't.
jcm
I went there regularly in the winter while the guide was being produced and it was fine. Baltic on occasions, but there are not-too-green bits which are fine in the winter. I suspect they dry fairly quickly as well - certainly if you were looking to site a washing line on a Peak crag HC would offer some of the optimum conditions for it, so they should do - though certainly there'll be bits that don't.
jcm
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Definitely underrated, I've been there on sunny summer weekends when climbers at the Roaches are queuing two deep and had to share the place with no more than 2 or 3 other teams.
Possibly not the best choice for Saturday though, with heavy rain due on Friday night followed by westerly gales and showers.
> Underrated?
Definitely underrated, I've been there on sunny summer weekends when climbers at the Roaches are queuing two deep and had to share the place with no more than 2 or 3 other teams.
Possibly not the best choice for Saturday though, with heavy rain due on Friday night followed by westerly gales and showers.
In reply to andic: Blimey riley! If Hen Cloud is your idea of a middling crag, I would give up and start queuing for the supposed 3* routes at Stanage Popular End!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I did plenty of checking for both editions of the most recent BMC guides in winter as well. The stuff on the far right faces south and can be a sun trap: worth knowing if it starts to get colder. Quality is better on the main faces though. On grades I think its fully consistent with the rest of the Roaches guide (which is only a tad harder than Eastern Edges BMC stuff)...Ramshaw is harder at HVS...what it does have though is lots of routes sitting at the top of most of the grades in my normal range (S to HVS). It's an astonishingly good crag for HVS leaders.
I did plenty of checking for both editions of the most recent BMC guides in winter as well. The stuff on the far right faces south and can be a sun trap: worth knowing if it starts to get colder. Quality is better on the main faces though. On grades I think its fully consistent with the rest of the Roaches guide (which is only a tad harder than Eastern Edges BMC stuff)...Ramshaw is harder at HVS...what it does have though is lots of routes sitting at the top of most of the grades in my normal range (S to HVS). It's an astonishingly good crag for HVS leaders.
Can anyone solve the mystery of why it gets so green?
It faces south / west, its fairly exposed and doesn't have a trees at the base.
Yet places like Cratcliffe don't get green in a Nuclear Winter.
It faces south / west, its fairly exposed and doesn't have a trees at the base.
Yet places like Cratcliffe don't get green in a Nuclear Winter.
In reply to jonny2vests:
It must be a function of dampness - the location at the edge of the uplands means Hen Cloud gets a lot of mist, and takes some drainage.
Cratcliffe stays dry in most rain, doesn't seep, and is more of a valley location not prone to hill fog.
> Can anyone solve the mystery of why it gets so green?
>
> It faces south / west, its fairly exposed and doesn't have a trees at the base.
>
> Yet places like Cratcliffe don't get green in a Nuclear Winter.
>
> It faces south / west, its fairly exposed and doesn't have a trees at the base.
>
> Yet places like Cratcliffe don't get green in a Nuclear Winter.
It must be a function of dampness - the location at the edge of the uplands means Hen Cloud gets a lot of mist, and takes some drainage.
Cratcliffe stays dry in most rain, doesn't seep, and is more of a valley location not prone to hill fog.
In reply to andic:
Well we went anyway and despite the ridiculous wind, cold and it trying to rain managed to get a few routes in before sacking it. I will be making another visit in the summer though, there are some really beautiful looking routes down there.
Well we went anyway and despite the ridiculous wind, cold and it trying to rain managed to get a few routes in before sacking it. I will be making another visit in the summer though, there are some really beautiful looking routes down there.
In reply to andic: Well done
In reply to jonny2vests: Everywhere gets more green than 30 years ago - the atmosphere is cleaner; there's not so much crap in the air to kill the nasty green stuff off.
In reply to andic: I cleaned Borstal Breakout a few months back.It is well worth getting on,as is Anaconda,just left.
Mitch
Mitch
In reply to Michael Hood:
Yeah, I've heard that theory. Not sure if there's any real science to support it though. It usually gets mentioned in Millstone conversations, but despite what you say, there's plenty of places that are not green.
Yeah, I've heard that theory. Not sure if there's any real science to support it though. It usually gets mentioned in Millstone conversations, but despite what you say, there's plenty of places that are not green.
In reply to jonny2vests:
I've read at least one Nature paper to support it. Is that enough real science? They didn't mention lichen growth on Hen Cloud specifically though, to be fair.
I've read at least one Nature paper to support it. Is that enough real science? They didn't mention lichen growth on Hen Cloud specifically though, to be fair.
In reply to Michael Hood:
But One theory I'd heard several times is for Helsby: ie it's so green because of all the crap being pumped out nearby1
Could be extra water vapour?
> (In reply to jonny2vests) Everywhere gets more green than 30 years ago - the atmosphere is cleaner; there's not so much crap in the air to kill the nasty green stuff off.
But One theory I'd heard several times is for Helsby: ie it's so green because of all the crap being pumped out nearby1
Could be extra water vapour?
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I've heard that too. Exception that proves the rule? It's certainly exposed to industry more than most crags!
> (In reply to Michael Hood)
> [...]
>
> But One theory I'd heard several times is for Helsby: ie it's so green because of all the crap being pumped out nearby1
> [...]
>
> But One theory I'd heard several times is for Helsby: ie it's so green because of all the crap being pumped out nearby1
I've heard that too. Exception that proves the rule? It's certainly exposed to industry more than most crags!
In reply to Calder: Isn't it a fertiliser factory though?
In reply to andic:
Might depend on the nature of the polution. I'm only guessing, but it's possible that the sulphurous pollution from coal powered industry that used to acidify rain was responsible for keeping lichenous growth down. Local discharges of nitrates on the other hand, might promote it.
Might depend on the nature of the polution. I'm only guessing, but it's possible that the sulphurous pollution from coal powered industry that used to acidify rain was responsible for keeping lichenous growth down. Local discharges of nitrates on the other hand, might promote it.
In reply to andi turner:
You're right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsby#Landmarks
Didn't know that.
You're right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsby#Landmarks
Didn't know that.
In reply to andi turner:
I suspect the locals of surreptitious local fertilization (that didnt come out quite right) to keep outsiders away.
I suspect the locals of surreptitious local fertilization (that didnt come out quite right) to keep outsiders away.
In reply to teflonpete:
Thats pretty much what I've always believed, the demise of the nearby Staffordshire potteries and pollution/acid rain. It is strange though, up here in darkest Lancs the grit quarries vary in greeness. Look in Western Grit and there is a couple of pics to compare - Shivers arete and Cameo at the Wiltons, shivers look really sandy and cameo is green yet the routes are 5 mins walk apart
Any doubters about local industry and pollution making a difference to the enviroment should note that the upper river Trent went from one of the countrys' premier coarse fisheries to being almost devoid of fish in the space of just 5 years due to the close/conversion of Drakelow/Willington/Ratcliffe power stations.
Anyway I digress, Hen cloud rocks!
> (In reply to andic)
>
> Might depend on the nature of the polution. I'm only guessing, but it's possible that the sulphurous pollution from coal powered industry that used to acidify rain was responsible for keeping lichenous growth down. Local discharges of nitrates on the other hand, might promote it.
>
> Might depend on the nature of the polution. I'm only guessing, but it's possible that the sulphurous pollution from coal powered industry that used to acidify rain was responsible for keeping lichenous growth down. Local discharges of nitrates on the other hand, might promote it.
Thats pretty much what I've always believed, the demise of the nearby Staffordshire potteries and pollution/acid rain. It is strange though, up here in darkest Lancs the grit quarries vary in greeness. Look in Western Grit and there is a couple of pics to compare - Shivers arete and Cameo at the Wiltons, shivers look really sandy and cameo is green yet the routes are 5 mins walk apart
Any doubters about local industry and pollution making a difference to the enviroment should note that the upper river Trent went from one of the countrys' premier coarse fisheries to being almost devoid of fish in the space of just 5 years due to the close/conversion of Drakelow/Willington/Ratcliffe power stations.
Anyway I digress, Hen cloud rocks!
In reply to Jon Read:
That would do. Got a link?
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> I've read at least one Nature paper to support it.
> I've read at least one Nature paper to support it.
That would do. Got a link?
In reply to jonny2vests:
1981, quite old, probably lots more written about it since.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v289/n5795/abs/289289a0.html
1981, quite old, probably lots more written about it since.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v289/n5795/abs/289289a0.html
In reply to Jon Read:
Cheers Jon. I did some googling around, and there are a ton of papers discussing Lichen re-colonisation. Easy when you know what to google.
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> 1981, quite old, probably lots more written about it since.
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v289/n5795/abs/289289a0.html
> 1981, quite old, probably lots more written about it since.
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v289/n5795/abs/289289a0.html
Cheers Jon. I did some googling around, and there are a ton of papers discussing Lichen re-colonisation. Easy when you know what to google.
In reply to jonny2vests: Interestingly/worryingly I've noticed in the past 8 weeks some kind of death in the lichens on the Roaches. They first went red and have now just peeled off. It looks like brushing, but a closer inspection shows it's not...
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Actually, from what I can quickly look up (in a book), that's not the answer.
I did find out that most lichens really dislike pollution, especially sulphur dioxide, but some species seem to like it.
Actually, from what I can quickly look up (in a book), that's not the answer.
I did find out that most lichens really dislike pollution, especially sulphur dioxide, but some species seem to like it.
In reply to Jon Read:
Any thoughts on why Hen Cloud is usually more green than the Roaches (or Five Clouds or Nth Cloud), despite being in the same place, facing roughly the same direction, with less tree cover, and more wind? Is it because Hen Cloud grit is rougher and so holds lichen better?
Any thoughts on why Hen Cloud is usually more green than the Roaches (or Five Clouds or Nth Cloud), despite being in the same place, facing roughly the same direction, with less tree cover, and more wind? Is it because Hen Cloud grit is rougher and so holds lichen better?
In reply to Coel Hellier:
I don't think it is, really. Ok, a few bits of it become unclimbable (thinking of The Raid, and that's mostly to do with drainage), but the rest is usually ok. I think there's an illusion that it looks worse than it is from the road, whereas Ramshaw is always colder than you can imagine when sitting in your car... The Roaches lower tier blooms luminous green in fog too. The >3rd clouds are finer grained grit which must make a difference in how much they retain moisture.
I don't think it is, really. Ok, a few bits of it become unclimbable (thinking of The Raid, and that's mostly to do with drainage), but the rest is usually ok. I think there's an illusion that it looks worse than it is from the road, whereas Ramshaw is always colder than you can imagine when sitting in your car... The Roaches lower tier blooms luminous green in fog too. The >3rd clouds are finer grained grit which must make a difference in how much they retain moisture.
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Read up a bit Coel, I asked the same question.
> (In reply to Jon Read)
>
> Any thoughts on why Hen Cloud is usually more green than the Roaches (or Five Clouds or Nth Cloud), despite being in the same place, facing roughly the same direction, with less tree cover, and more wind? Is it because Hen Cloud grit is rougher and so holds lichen better?
>
> Any thoughts on why Hen Cloud is usually more green than the Roaches (or Five Clouds or Nth Cloud), despite being in the same place, facing roughly the same direction, with less tree cover, and more wind? Is it because Hen Cloud grit is rougher and so holds lichen better?
Read up a bit Coel, I asked the same question.
In reply to andic: Its great this time of year, me and a mate went about 2 weeks ago and ticked off some classics, bring a pair of gloves for belaying though as it can get a bit chilly.
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