UKC

Hi guys,

My sport RP grade is probably the weakest part of my climbing at the minute, and I think by improving it, it is likely to increase my Trad and Sport onsight grade.

As I have lucked out and onsighted/flashed Fr7a and V6, which are both the hardest things I have RPed in those disciplines... the E4s I have onsighted have been been slabby and/or bold making them fairly soft. So I feel with some good fitness/acquaintance with my lactic limits I can do better...

I am keen to push into hard E3, proper E4 territory, steep with sustained sequences is what inspires me, especially wall-style routes. Things like Foil, Test Case, Stroll On (been on this) Resurrection, both Great Walls, Star Wars, Bloody Sunday, Roc-Nest Monster, etc. Maybe some E5s ground up also??

So I guess I'm looking at sustained routes ideally, though getting used to climbing close to my boulder limit above bolts will probably improve my ability also.

I am quite keen for Red Meat, Electric Cool-Aid Acid Test, Koo, Libertango, and Bloodsports. What others should I put on my list? Also any good 7cs that might be do-able I once had a TR on Bad, Bad Buoy and it felt quite reachy but may be a goer with my own shoes on!

Also been working Left Wall Traverse ready for a transition to routing season from the bouldering one. I heard this is about 7b+ french??

Anything else I should work on? I should add that I am a 3rd year now so time is not as free and easy as it has been in past years but am keen to use my time productively so that once graduated I can do some good routes.

Sorry for the essay! Cheers, Dunc

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

La boheme is good at F7a+. Great pocket pulling- wouldn't be out of place in spain.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

If you are looking for recommendations for routes at those grades then just follow the stars either in the log book or whatever guide you are using (I know NWR doesn't have stars but they are all hand picked anyway), when the new North Wales Limestone guide comes out it will be the most informed guide ever so follow that and you won't go wrong. Also bear in mind that Clwyd has some ace routes at the grade you're after particularly Dinbren where you can clib almost any time of the year.

If you are after routes to help you with onsighting trad routes then I'd stick with trying to on-sight sport routes (and then going for a quick redpoint if you fail) whhihc has far greater relevance, then go for the hybrid routes on the Marine Drive. Left Wall Travers is a fine ambition but there are probably more efficient ways of getting up to on-sighting trad E5 in N Wales.

If you are after a soft touch then Bloodsports is it but White Hopes is the 7b of Marine Drive!

In reply to Tyler:



White Hopes is exceptional but I reckon <cough> Hidden Sign is as good.

In reply to shark:

Sorry Shark, I should have said above the Marine Drive (thought it was 7b+ anyway?)! But you've made a good point there are now apparently 3 super routes down there at about that grade.

In reply to Tyler: I guess what I was after was examples of routes that would get me fitter/more used to being pumped and having to commit to sequences.

Not after soft-touches at all, didn't realise bloodsports was, just heard it was good.

Yeah I guess LWT doesn't emulate many E5s but as it gets colder and wetter I am more psyched for bouldering at the minute... It will hopefully get me used to climbing at around the 7b+ mark? Out of interest what would you suggest?

Cheers, Dunc

In reply to Duncan Campbell: If I was climbing your grades my number one target would be "The Rock Bottom Line"
http://dmmclimbing.com/news/2011/10/uks-longest-sport-route/

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

IMO the best grade by a fair margin at Pen Trwyn is 7a+. Mayfair Wall has Axle Attack, The Bloods, Mayfair Wall and Beared Clam (+ King Krank at E5 but 7a+ really), further right on UPT there's Homo Sapian plus a number of lesser but still good routes, LPT has The Refrain, Night Glue and Face Race. Do all these and you'll build up some good fitness for trad routes.

Simon re Hidden Sign - went down to there on one of the hot days at the end of September, the condensation was awful and Cruella Deville felt like 7b+. Despite this was very impressed by the rock and the lines and will definitely be back. Possibly not applicable to the op since they won't be in condition and unbanned again until Auguest.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

To be honest I haven't done a lot above 7b because Pen Trwyn is one of the few places in the UK where you can go and find plenty to have a go at on-sight at a relatively low grade. Pumpy rather than bouldery 7bs I know of are Bloodsport, Dive Dive Dive, White Hopes, La Bohem (and Direct), the Refrain. There are few in Castell y Gwynt, Pantymwyn and Pinfold but the Devil's Gorge one's won't dry out before the end of next summer.

In reply to Tyler: Yup, I belayed a friend on Prickly Heat 7a+ at Pinfold, looked a great line with plenty more to go at in the vicinity:
37 Physical Transaction F7a+
38 Freely Slapping Upwards F7b
39 Prickly Heat F7a+ *
40 Pictures of Living E4 6a *
41 Mr Wobbler E3 6a
42 Dying Tonight F7b
43 Slap and Tickle F7a+ *
44 Wibbly Wobbly World E3 6a
45 Funky Monkey Pie F7c *
46 Killer Gorilla F7a+ **
47 Planet Claire F7b ***
48 Atmospheres E5 6a ***
49 Private Idaho F7c **
50 Generation of Swine F7b+ ***
51 Brain Box F7b+ **
52 Aphrodizziness F7a
53 Oxygen E3 6a **
54 Eddie Waring Lives On F6c+ *
55 Demolition Man E4 6b *
56 Mental Transition E4 6b ***
57 Through the Grapevine F7b ***
58 What's Goin' On F7a ** 14
59 The Sinking, Shrinking, Shrimp E2 5c *
60 Spastic Spider E2 5c *
61 Shy of Coconuts E4 6b
62 Candy F7b *
63 Lickin' Lollipops F7b *
There are some classic sport lines on Craig Arthur too:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=423

In reply to Tyler: Cool thanks for your suggestions, I've belayed a mate on The Refrain and it is heinously bouldery, he couldn't do the crux at all, and he has climbed far harder... just to let you know if you ever get on it excpecting a pumpy romp, apparently it isnt!

Thanks for all the suggestions, and keep em coming!

Dunc

In reply to Duncan Campbell: I thought LWT was more like F7c/+ - tried it a month or so ago, and can vouch for it being definitely a step up from 7b+!
Good post btw, it sounds like we're after the same things at the minute.
If I were you I wouldn't put off getting on Star Wars. It is not harder than F6b+/c, and though run-out in places never dangerous. Climbing like you are, in the right headspace you would piss up it. Dont over-respect the grade! I have often made that mistake.

In reply to Duncan Campbell: What about something on the slate?

True clip is good, as is spong is good for you (tones of nice routes at that grade in the quarries). Or perhaps heading the shot, get's F7a+ i think, but the bolts are very spaced, might get E5 on here?

C

In reply to jacobjlloyd: Nice, I think I was around on the orme that day, at pillbox, then we went back to the cave?? You climbed with a mate of mine, Eugene? I have been struggling like hell on the starting crux, but last time I was there, managed to almost get through it. then got back on pretty quick a move after i fell and managed to get right to the last hard moves, so I'm sure with another visit or two you'd be on send.

Yeah I think if I had gone to pembroke for long enough or having not gone and climbed slabby cracks for a month in Squamish I would have got on and maybe up it, when i feel good and confident my head is usually my biggest strength...

In reply to cragrat trad: yeah would love to get on Spong it looks brilliant!!

Dunc

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Think people have already suggested most of the classics but here is my list:
7a+: Night Glue, Axle Attack, Mayfair, Cruella Deville at Castell Y Gwynt (although thought this was closer to 7b)

7b: Bloodsports

7b+: Hidden Sign (thought this deserved 7b+)

7c: Boat People (just brilliant), Bad Bad Boy (amazing but hard for grade for shorties). Magic Flute (great but could be tricky to get a belay!)

If you are in the cave a bit then Werry's Woof Woute (7a+) and Tomorrow People (7c) are worth a dig.

In my opinion Left wall Low is at least sport 7c unless you have it on complete lock down...

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I have to agree with two of the answers given above...

Tyler "If you are after routes to help you with onsighting trad routes then I'd stick with trying to on-sight sport routes (and then going for a quick redpoint if you fail) whhihc has far greater relevance"

Jacobjlloyd "If I were you I wouldn't put off getting on Star Wars. It is not harder than F6b+/c, and though run-out in places never dangerous. Climbing like you are, in the right headspace you would piss up it. Dont over-respect the grade! I have often made that mistake."

My best lead last year was Diamond Smiles (E3 5c) which I did with you. I targeted one route on your list, Bloody Sunday (E4 6a) as my goal for this year. My approach was to put redpointing on the backburner and attempt to onsight 6c and 6c+ whenever I could. This gave me the battle hardening to keep going when the going gets tough. Every time I climbed at the wall or outside I reminded myself of my goal (my partners will attest to this). I managed to pick up about six more E3 onsights before my big day at Huntsman's. I blasted through Bloody Sunday onsight and was surprised it only felt f6b+ with my long ape index.
Looking at your list of desired wall routes I suspect most of them are around 6b+/6c (Resurrection may be a tad harder).
Whatever you decide to do I wish you great success when the exams are over.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:
i think that redpointing something harder does actually help your onsight grade because if your doing quite hard moves then when you come to onsight easier routes then the moves feel easier to what you have been trying to redpoint. i did a bit more sport climbing and i did feel a bit fitter than i did before but my head wasn't as brill. for sport in the 7's clwyd limestone is pretty good and alot of it is in the sun, there quite short but nice moves. my first 7b was lickn' lollipops although a bit of a poxy route the moves are actually really good. i think maybe soft for the grade as i got up it lol.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

LWT will get you good at traversing in Parisella's but in my opinion it doesn't really do much to help route fitness. For me anyway going sideways doesn't really translate. It's winter, it's a classic tick and it won't do any harm though so stick with it.
7bs - Hidden Sign, Red Meat, Bloodsports. Red Meat is the biggest fitness challenge out of the 3 and great trad training.
7b+s - Ocean of Emotion, Wall of Evening Light, Grand Canyon. Ocean is a bit more fiddly as its above the see but it looks really fantastic and is ok to get too now thanks to Pete Harrison's handline. Feels like a bit of an adventure too. The other two are great for training trad fitness and are classics also.
7c's - Bad Boy, Boat People, Release the Hounds and Alberta Rose. Release the Hounds is not really trad training but amazing fun so well worth checking out. Alberta Rose is Pete Harrison's new 7c on Detritus Wall and is reportedly excellent and 20 metres or so so good for fitness. I'd say that Non Tidal Screamer 7c on The Diamond is also reasonably traddy in style and so probably a good one (you do have to wait til August though, same as Detritus unless you get there in March)

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Hi Dunc

If you're in Devon for Xmas, I recommend Up the Styx and Shadow Styx. They are fairly trad-like, because they were once trad routes of sorts, they will catch the winter sun and have a good chance of being in condition, they are wall climbs/steep slabs, and unless they've become popular in the last 18 months they will train your acquaintance with snappy rock!

And they're really good!

Dom

In reply to shark: You're too modest Simon! Hidden Sign is better than White Hopes- on a par with Nouvelle Cuisine just to it's left

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Manic Strain in vivian.........

In reply to Duncan Campbell: Left Wall Traverse is more like 7c+ but I don't think the benefits of doing this (a traverse) transfer so well to vertical routes but you are getting pumped / recovering etc so I guess they must to some degree!

I'd like to suggest 7s that have more of a trad style but there really aren't that many around I think. In fact Rub a Dub Dub on The Diamond is about the only one that comes to mind (felt very like Right Wall to me). I belayed someone on Non-Tidal Screamer, also at The Diamond, not so long ago and that looked a similar style though obviously somewhat harder.

Most sport routes in the grades you're after in N Wales have bouldery cruxes or are short power endurance affairs. Libertango is a good idea as is La Boheme, both being vertical and crimpy climbing. Nearby you've also got Pink Pinkie (my first UK 7a onsight so definitely at the easier end of things). There's quite a clutch of very worthwhile (crimpy, technical, decent finger strength needed) stuff in that area: Face Race, Mean Mother and Night Glue (also steep and physical near start).

To be honest I think the biggest benefit from sport (for your trad) is having a very good idea of how far you can actually keep going. Most people never climb trad (or sport for that matter) until they fall so they never learn where that point is (I'm talking physical routes here not something technical where you fall due to footwork for example). You can do precisely this with sport. Sport also shows what you can recover on, again really useful for trad where, on most things (can't comment on E6 and above) there's a really good rest or jugs just before or after a crux. If you know you're going to get a rest after a few metres of harder climbing then you can go for it. Equally, you develop the ability to 'rest your way' up things.

In no order some other really good 7s in the area are:

Technicolour Yawn 7a+, Dinbren
Walking with Barrence 7b, Dinbren
The Bandits 7b+ (hard), Dinbren - one of the best anywhere at this grade?
Grand Canyon 7b+, Devil's Gorge
Pearl from the Shell 6c+ (tricky), Llandulas
Searching 6c+ (7a?), Llandulas
Prime the Pump 7b, Llandulas - very continental (if it weren't so short!)
Boat People 7c, The Diamond - sensational but hard, also quite conditions dependent
Ocean of Emotion 7b+, Wall of Detritus - gobsmacking and really quite trad, you follow a sort of crack feature in the upper half, it's pretty 'out there' generally, the bolting at the top provides for plenty of air time and the climbing itself is face then crack
The Mask 7b+, Pen Trwyn - overlooked but a great power endurance route, steep so different from quite a few of the routes upstairs
Mayfair Wall - do the lot and you'll be well-equipped for trad wall climbs! Everything I've done there has been good.
Further right:
Bearded Clam 7a+, Pen Trwyn - awesome
Plagued by Fools 7b+, Pen Trwyn - tough, bouldery crux but very satisfying

Actually I'm going to stop there as you'll get something from all the sport routes upstairs at Pen Twryn so get on them all!

With regard to trad to go at, a few others to try:

The 3 E3s beside each other at Pen Trwyn (Klondike, Pocket City and Solid Gold, P City felt tough at E3)
The Visionary, Pen Trwyn - felt very soft for E4, take small / medium cams
What a Difference a Day Makes E4, Hidden Wall - you can lace this up at the top, steep and safe
Memory Lane E3, Cromlech - no way as serious as made out, good but spaced (though not excessively so) gear all the way except maybe upper arete but the climbing is OK here, amazing position and lovely face climbing
Strike E3/4, Upper Tier - perfect for what you're after
Poisoned Arrow E4, St Govan's - more like E3, really nice, open climbing
Tangerine Dream E4, St Govan's - outstanding and quite hard but safe

Enjoy!

In reply to Duncan Campbell: Think this might get 7b in the new guide, as you say 'easy' to the top then a bouldery crux, maybe V3/4?