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There is no Christmas spirit at my work (NHS by the way!) and to top it off I have just got a parking ticket for being parked at work. I hadnt collected my renewed parking permit and was ticketed for being out of date. Despite the fact the hospital have my registration number and I pay for parking by salary sacrifice, there is no way they will accept any appeal (there are much more valid cases that colleagues have failed on appeal). So my only option to avoid paying £40 for the joy of being at work is to ignore the ticket. Most forums asking for advice on this result in many people saying to just ignore it....but how many people really have ignored these charges and not been taken to court???
In reply to Nicola:
I'm certain that any day now I'll be ticketed. Parking is by permit - which I have and I display - plus parking ticket which costs a £1 a day. For weeks now I have been displaying the same parking ticket.
Good luck getting out of yours.
I'm certain that any day now I'll be ticketed. Parking is by permit - which I have and I display - plus parking ticket which costs a £1 a day. For weeks now I have been displaying the same parking ticket.
Good luck getting out of yours.
In reply to Nicola:
Its not a fine as only the Police and Councils can issue these, you are effectivly being done for breach of contract which is a civil matter so just ignore it.
Its not a fine as only the Police and Councils can issue these, you are effectivly being done for breach of contract which is a civil matter so just ignore it.
In reply to nightmonkeyuk:
Until they issue a county court claim..
Until they issue a county court claim..
In reply to Camdenelectric:
which would be against the driver of the vehicle, not the owner who is the person the "charge" would have been sent to.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
which would be against the driver of the vehicle, not the owner who is the person the "charge" would have been sent to.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
In reply to Nicola: I've ignored a few of these, and so have many people I know, both in England and Scotland. So long as its a private company and not a local authority fine, they can't do much other than send a string of unconvincing letters threatening to take you to court. They never do and would struggle to make a case if they did, plus would risk setting a precedent that would put them out of business overnight.
Your only problem may be that this is connected to your work.
Your only problem may be that this is connected to your work.
In reply to Nicola: We've ignored two of them, on the advice of a friend who regularly ignores them. Got about 5 or 6 increasingly threatening letters, then heard nothing for the last six months or so.
I'd definitely advise ignoring it!
I'd definitely advise ignoring it!
In reply to DJonsight:
There are a few ways I think that they cant take me to court:
The hospital are issuing the 'tickets' themselves. But its just a shoddy form they've made up on word. The signs says UKPC control the carpark. So therefore my 'contract' is with the people who put the signs up so not liable to anyone else. UKPC used to issue tickets, but they taken it in house presumably to generate income (from their staff!!!!)
I understand they can only take me to court to recoup financial losses. Since I already have a paid up permit, there is no loss to recover. I would only pay their costs so they would not gain at all.
The parking ticket does not meet the standards for BPA (British Parking Association) which although I dont know if it is compulsory to meet this, the signs all say BPA affiliated.
My employer is issuing the ticket, however I am leaving in a few weeks so not worried about upsetting them.
So back to the big question: How many people have got away with it? The tally so far is 2 people (4 tickets) successfully ignored. First hand accounts only as EVERYONE has a story about a friend of a friend!
There are a few ways I think that they cant take me to court:
The hospital are issuing the 'tickets' themselves. But its just a shoddy form they've made up on word. The signs says UKPC control the carpark. So therefore my 'contract' is with the people who put the signs up so not liable to anyone else. UKPC used to issue tickets, but they taken it in house presumably to generate income (from their staff!!!!)
I understand they can only take me to court to recoup financial losses. Since I already have a paid up permit, there is no loss to recover. I would only pay their costs so they would not gain at all.
The parking ticket does not meet the standards for BPA (British Parking Association) which although I dont know if it is compulsory to meet this, the signs all say BPA affiliated.
My employer is issuing the ticket, however I am leaving in a few weeks so not worried about upsetting them.
So back to the big question: How many people have got away with it? The tally so far is 2 people (4 tickets) successfully ignored. First hand accounts only as EVERYONE has a story about a friend of a friend!
In reply to Nicola: Ignore. You may well get a variety of threatening letters to the registered keeper, but the RK has no obligation to identify the driver who parked the vehicle. To enforce the 'contract' they need to identify the driver and demonstrate that a contract existed. If the signs give the wrong info then where do they stand.
pepipoo is the best forum to look on. They've got thousands of people off real fines, let alone these spurious ones.
pepipoo is the best forum to look on. They've got thousands of people off real fines, let alone these spurious ones.
In reply to Nicola: technically speaking, anyone can take you to civil court over pretty much anything, if they want to waste their money. I've ignored UKPC twice in the past and all I got was a few letters.
By the way, i've never worried much about the whole driver/registered keeper thing. The argument is put forward as gospel by some but of course you could be caught out if they can prove you were driving. I've stopped sending any reply to these people at all - it's a waste of a stamp as they just go through their tedious series of threatening letters anyway before giving up.
Actually, I've stopped driving alltogether now which is much less stressful, but that's another story.
PS You're not "getting away with it". They are getting away with it with every mug who stumps up cash on their hollow threats.
By the way, i've never worried much about the whole driver/registered keeper thing. The argument is put forward as gospel by some but of course you could be caught out if they can prove you were driving. I've stopped sending any reply to these people at all - it's a waste of a stamp as they just go through their tedious series of threatening letters anyway before giving up.
Actually, I've stopped driving alltogether now which is much less stressful, but that's another story.
PS You're not "getting away with it". They are getting away with it with every mug who stumps up cash on their hollow threats.
In reply to Nicola: I've ignored one that was issued to me when I took a nap in a motorway service station car park. They sent 3 threatening letters stating court action pending and the likes then never heard from them again. That only goes for private companies though, I believe if it's a council/police ticket then you'll actually receive a summons if you don't pay up.
The only thing you might want to consider is that seeing as you park there regularly they would have opportunity to clamp you for failure to pay. No idea if that's legal but wouldn't be too surprised to hear of it happening.
The only thing you might want to consider is that seeing as you park there regularly they would have opportunity to clamp you for failure to pay. No idea if that's legal but wouldn't be too surprised to hear of it happening.
In reply to Nicola:
I have been ignoring them for about 7 months now. Things got a little bit spicy, they were phoning every couple of days demanding to know my address and if I had received their letters. I got the usual threats to take me to court, the letters do look scarily convincing but I stood my ground.
I took advice from Consumer Direct, I spoke to a really nice guy who said that they would be unlikely to take me to court because of all the stuff already mentioned; however, as he put it, 'They could sell the debt to a couple of people who might be called Kray and Kray - they wouldn't be acting legally but it could get nasty'. You have to think is this likely for the sake of £60?
I did make a couple of complaints; one was to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and one to the DVLA because one of the unpleasant little minions who phoned me was particularly aggressive. When I was questioning some of what he was saying, he claimed to actually be phoning on behalf of the DVLA! I immediately jumped on this and demanded to know his full name which he refused to give. It did give me the ammo to put in formal complaints though, and I haven't heard from them since (a couple of months).
Good luck!
I have been ignoring them for about 7 months now. Things got a little bit spicy, they were phoning every couple of days demanding to know my address and if I had received their letters. I got the usual threats to take me to court, the letters do look scarily convincing but I stood my ground.
I took advice from Consumer Direct, I spoke to a really nice guy who said that they would be unlikely to take me to court because of all the stuff already mentioned; however, as he put it, 'They could sell the debt to a couple of people who might be called Kray and Kray - they wouldn't be acting legally but it could get nasty'. You have to think is this likely for the sake of £60?
I did make a couple of complaints; one was to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and one to the DVLA because one of the unpleasant little minions who phoned me was particularly aggressive. When I was questioning some of what he was saying, he claimed to actually be phoning on behalf of the DVLA! I immediately jumped on this and demanded to know his full name which he refused to give. It did give me the ammo to put in formal complaints though, and I haven't heard from them since (a couple of months).
Good luck!
In reply to Mr.Ric:
That's reassuring... I had a nap in the services a couple of months ago and got a letter. Had another couple of letters, crossing my fingers I'll not hear much more from them!
Isi
That's reassuring... I had a nap in the services a couple of months ago and got a letter. Had another couple of letters, crossing my fingers I'll not hear much more from them!
Isi
In reply to Nicola:
People who ignore these charges don't usually work for the place issuing the notice! Who exactly issued the ticket? NHS Estates or another company?
People who ignore these charges don't usually work for the place issuing the notice! Who exactly issued the ticket? NHS Estates or another company?
In reply to Nicola: Almost everyone has said the same thing so I won't do anything but to second the MoneySavingExpert ad, and say that I ignored one for parking in an Asda car park for about 6 hours and I never heard another thing from them.
In reply to Nicola:
was 20 mins over time in morrisons last year, ignored 1st letter. They sent a reminder and ignored it also, that was in may (oh forgot to say they wanted £130 with £50 off for prompt payment)
My advice would be ignore them, do not reply, but keep them just in case! But do some more research.
There was also a forum on martin's money saving tips the other day saying some private companies issuing tickets cannot legally enforce them. Councils are different.
was 20 mins over time in morrisons last year, ignored 1st letter. They sent a reminder and ignored it also, that was in may (oh forgot to say they wanted £130 with £50 off for prompt payment)
My advice would be ignore them, do not reply, but keep them just in case! But do some more research.
There was also a forum on martin's money saving tips the other day saying some private companies issuing tickets cannot legally enforce them. Councils are different.
In reply to Nicola: i over stayed by 10 mins and excell parking sent me an £80 fine. so far three letters including one from a solicitor that has advised me to ignore the internet advice and pay up. not had anything through for a couple of months now so they might have stopped.
In reply to Nicola: Similar thing happened to me earlier this year. I also work in the NHS and when I had y new permit sent to me I had forgotten to replace it for my old one for a day or two. I had a numbe rof threatening lettes but ignored all of them...hear nothing after about 5 monts. The Trust where I work contract the car parking to a privete company and said therefore they could not help...typical of the NHS in its current state!
I would suggest standing firm....good luck!
I would suggest standing firm....good luck!
In reply to Nicola:
I have ignored one which was unreasonable (Booths supermarkets); did my shopping and overstayed by 15 minutes on the 2 hour period). Four or five letters followed. I did nothing and they stopped.
If you're not going to pay - and the clear advice is not to - don't get into an exchange of letters, just ignore them unless or until you get a county court summons. That will not happen.
I have ignored one which was unreasonable (Booths supermarkets); did my shopping and overstayed by 15 minutes on the 2 hour period). Four or five letters followed. I did nothing and they stopped.
If you're not going to pay - and the clear advice is not to - don't get into an exchange of letters, just ignore them unless or until you get a county court summons. That will not happen.
In reply to Nicola:
Forgot to say - if you can afford to potentially lose a whole day if you get engrossed in the threads, google 'pepipoo'; the chaps on there are the experts.
Forgot to say - if you can afford to potentially lose a whole day if you get engrossed in the threads, google 'pepipoo'; the chaps on there are the experts.
In reply to Nicola: I've been 'charged' twice before. Once for parking in a Lidl carpark for longer than I should have and once for sleeping overnight in a service station carpark off the motorway. Ignored both, only the Lidl one sent loads of threatning letters which all got ignored and then they soon stopped.
In reply to Nicola:
Another "non-payer" here
My car was parked in a permitted car park (it was dark and raining, signs weren't visible after dark)
4 days later the car had accumulated 4 tickets each demanding £80 (£60 for prompt payment)
This escalated to £180 (per ticket… yes that’s right £720 for 4 days parking lol) via a debt management company and a solicitors firm (all with the same address as the ticketing company)
That was 2009 they stopped writing to me
The thing about driver v registered keeper is relevant, but even if they do have proof, it's a contract law dispute. Any damages reclaimed can only be for lost income, now a days parking at the short stay car park at my local airport is £21.50, so £180 for a day is clearly punitive and would very likely be dismissed by the courts. be warned the letters do seem convincing and are very threatening, but they are totally toothless by all accounts.
thing is, if they'd just issued one ticket and made it £30 I’d probably have paid it, but because it was stupidly high I dug my heels in, it's ended up costing them money as a result
In Scotland (ha ha) it's illegal for private companies to clamp your car...
Another "non-payer" here
My car was parked in a permitted car park (it was dark and raining, signs weren't visible after dark)
4 days later the car had accumulated 4 tickets each demanding £80 (£60 for prompt payment)
This escalated to £180 (per ticket… yes that’s right £720 for 4 days parking lol) via a debt management company and a solicitors firm (all with the same address as the ticketing company)
That was 2009 they stopped writing to me
The thing about driver v registered keeper is relevant, but even if they do have proof, it's a contract law dispute. Any damages reclaimed can only be for lost income, now a days parking at the short stay car park at my local airport is £21.50, so £180 for a day is clearly punitive and would very likely be dismissed by the courts. be warned the letters do seem convincing and are very threatening, but they are totally toothless by all accounts.
thing is, if they'd just issued one ticket and made it £30 I’d probably have paid it, but because it was stupidly high I dug my heels in, it's ended up costing them money as a result
In Scotland (ha ha) it's illegal for private companies to clamp your car...
In reply to Ava Adore: I was wondering that. Goes to show that you shouldn't engage at all with these people. And the Kray thing - what a load of bollocks!
Anyway everyone I've spoken to who knew the Krays say they were lovely blokes and proper gents...
Anyway everyone I've spoken to who knew the Krays say they were lovely blokes and proper gents...
In reply to rallymania:
So 11 people ignoring 17 parking tickets and no-one taken to court. I'm quite liking these statistics!...but I'll have to wait and see if I am brave enough to ignore the threatening letters!!!
So 11 people ignoring 17 parking tickets and no-one taken to court. I'm quite liking these statistics!...but I'll have to wait and see if I am brave enough to ignore the threatening letters!!!
In reply to Nicola:
Good luck, lass. I find it hard to believe that the NHS would be quite as threatening as some of these other places though.
Good luck, lass. I find it hard to believe that the NHS would be quite as threatening as some of these other places though.
In reply to Nicola: My wife parked my car in an Aldi carpark and got a ticket for exceeding the two hours free parking.
I checked out forums on the internet about this. Lots of incidents of similar things and like people above have stated, just ignore it. I, as the registered keeper, received several letters after the first. Each one escalating the fine and threatening court. I ignored them all.
It has also been on BBC Watchdog earlier this year.
They can only recover lost revenue and as the car park is free, or in your case paid in advance, like you have stated they will gain nothing.
I even started sending the letters back in another envelope, with no stamp. That way the post office charge them a fee!
I checked out forums on the internet about this. Lots of incidents of similar things and like people above have stated, just ignore it. I, as the registered keeper, received several letters after the first. Each one escalating the fine and threatening court. I ignored them all.
It has also been on BBC Watchdog earlier this year.
They can only recover lost revenue and as the car park is free, or in your case paid in advance, like you have stated they will gain nothing.
I even started sending the letters back in another envelope, with no stamp. That way the post office charge them a fee!
In reply to Nicola: Had too many parking tickets - always paid council issued ones, never paid private parking company ones. They're fairly evil organisations, threatening and making money out of genuine people often making genuine mistakes. Most people will roll over and pay 30/40/80 quid to make it go away. That's why it's a billion pound 'industry' now. I'd be interested to know for sure but I doubt there's ever been a court case over this as it wouldn't really be worth their while taking it to court (and probably losing) when there're new tickets and car parks to be monitored all the time anyway. For your stats record, I've had about four Private Parking Company tickets over the past few years and ignored all of them. Ignoring one currently as well. Be strong.
In reply to Nicola:
Another happy ignorer here. :O)
I read the stuff on moneysavingexpert, and found a thread on a forum somewhere where people post photos of the letters they get in sequence so you know what to expect.
After a while it's really obvious that they're not going to take you to court or they'd stop threatening to do it and get on with it. The letters are slightly scary at first, but by about the fourth or fifth time, a letter that says "Ok, forget what we said last time, this really is your last chance to pay up before we take you to court!" just seems really quite pathetic.
Another happy ignorer here. :O)
I read the stuff on moneysavingexpert, and found a thread on a forum somewhere where people post photos of the letters they get in sequence so you know what to expect.
After a while it's really obvious that they're not going to take you to court or they'd stop threatening to do it and get on with it. The letters are slightly scary at first, but by about the fourth or fifth time, a letter that says "Ok, forget what we said last time, this really is your last chance to pay up before we take you to court!" just seems really quite pathetic.
In reply to Nicola: It seems to me you have already paid for parking!!! The only thing was you didn't display a current parking disc. They are being rather pedantic IMHO. What does your trust say in their parking policy? Does it mention you have to display a valid permit, or not? Possible loophole if there is no mention. I also work for the NHS and this is typical how the staff get screwed. May be worth a chat with a union rep if you are in a union. The best of luck and hope they see reason.
In reply to spadge:
Does anyone happen to know whether the Haworth Parsonage wheel-clamping scam is still going? I went there on a Bronte tour with a distinguished NZ philosopher, parked in the relevant car park, and got clamped. As I had no cash on me, it cost my guest £50 to get us out of there.
The place was run by a horrible (I mean really horrible) Yorkshireman who was stamping around it clamping unsuspecting tourists. One woman in the car park when I was there was in tears. I had a polite altercation with him, tried to pay by cheque but was refused, paid up in cash, got a receipt, and said I'd be writing to the local MP and to him to get the money back and to get his operation investigated. I did this, but I just got an abusive letter from him, and no response from the local MP.
I think it's a blot on the landscape that the local Tourist Board should be seriously concerned about. But then, this was a few years back; I hope it no longer exists.
Does anyone happen to know whether the Haworth Parsonage wheel-clamping scam is still going? I went there on a Bronte tour with a distinguished NZ philosopher, parked in the relevant car park, and got clamped. As I had no cash on me, it cost my guest £50 to get us out of there.
The place was run by a horrible (I mean really horrible) Yorkshireman who was stamping around it clamping unsuspecting tourists. One woman in the car park when I was there was in tears. I had a polite altercation with him, tried to pay by cheque but was refused, paid up in cash, got a receipt, and said I'd be writing to the local MP and to him to get the money back and to get his operation investigated. I did this, but I just got an abusive letter from him, and no response from the local MP.
I think it's a blot on the landscape that the local Tourist Board should be seriously concerned about. But then, this was a few years back; I hope it no longer exists.
In reply to Nicola:
Can't offer constructive advice but would like to offer a smidge of support by calling them a bunch of wankers. Must make you feel really valued and motivated at work.
> (In reply to rallymania)
>
> So 11 people ignoring 17 parking tickets and no-one taken to court. I'm quite liking these statistics!...but I'll have to wait and see if I am brave enough to ignore the threatening letters!!!
>
> So 11 people ignoring 17 parking tickets and no-one taken to court. I'm quite liking these statistics!...but I'll have to wait and see if I am brave enough to ignore the threatening letters!!!
Can't offer constructive advice but would like to offer a smidge of support by calling them a bunch of wankers. Must make you feel really valued and motivated at work.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Think of it as a pretension tax.
> (In reply to spadge)
>
>
> Does anyone happen to know whether the Haworth Parsonage wheel-clamping scam is still going? I went there on a Bronte tour with a distinguished NZ philosopher,
>
>
> Does anyone happen to know whether the Haworth Parsonage wheel-clamping scam is still going? I went there on a Bronte tour with a distinguished NZ philosopher,
Think of it as a pretension tax.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Gah. Fair cop, but my point was: it was embarrassing for me, and no good for the Yorkies' tourism industry, to take a foreign guest there and instantly get done over.
Gah. Fair cop, but my point was: it was embarrassing for me, and no good for the Yorkies' tourism industry, to take a foreign guest there and instantly get done over.
In reply to Nicola: I went to a training course at a local college with parking included. I was in a hurry and wrote the wrong registration number down on the form. I got a ticket. I tried to explain to the company what had happened and to be reasonable but they wanted the money. I then changed to ignoring them. I got a selection of threatening letters. The last one about 6 weeks ago appeared very official and appeared to be from a dept collection agency. It said if I didn't pay in 7 days they would take me to court and this would damage my credit rating. I didn't pay and have heard nothing since. I am sure all this stuff about credit ratings is rubbish. I would have to loose in court and then not pay for it to effect my credit rating. At the moment we have a disputed invoice not a dept.
In reply to Nicola:
You could always have a pop at your esteemed employer - harassment at work etc, even go the whole hog and claim constructive dismissal, or go off sick with stress citing unreasonable behaviour!
You could always have a pop at your esteemed employer - harassment at work etc, even go the whole hog and claim constructive dismissal, or go off sick with stress citing unreasonable behaviour!
In reply to Nicola:
They bought my address from the DVLA - quite legal apparently. Not sure if they bought my phone number along with the address, as I am ex-directory. I'm sure there are ways and means to find out phone numbers though, once you have a name and address.
They bought my address from the DVLA - quite legal apparently. Not sure if they bought my phone number along with the address, as I am ex-directory. I'm sure there are ways and means to find out phone numbers though, once you have a name and address.
In reply to Nicola: Are there cameras on the car park? Apart from anything else, they have to be able to prove you were driving (unlike with a council ticket). Even if they do have footage of you, does the company fining you know what you look like?! My father is a lawyer and never pays private parking tickets. +1 for ignore!
In reply to Nicola:
My wife works for the NHS, she always buys a permit but for various reasons has got a few tickets, she has always ignored them and nothing has come of it.
My wife works for the NHS, she always buys a permit but for various reasons has got a few tickets, she has always ignored them and nothing has come of it.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Wasn't he one of the "stars" of watchdog? A cnut of the highest order!
Clamped my mum about two years ago, unfortunatley she paid up instead of ringing me (I would have been round with the recovery truck with the big winch!)
Wasn't he one of the "stars" of watchdog? A cnut of the highest order!
Clamped my mum about two years ago, unfortunatley she paid up instead of ringing me (I would have been round with the recovery truck with the big winch!)
In reply to Nicola: Another person ignoring the letters here.<waves>
We got the letter which threatens to take you to court within 7 days, ignored it, got the same letter two weeks later. It was then when I was confident it was a scam.
We got the letter which threatens to take you to court within 7 days, ignored it, got the same letter two weeks later. It was then when I was confident it was a scam.
In reply to Nicola:
Had one after parking in a leisure centre car park and not using the facilities. Recieved a few letters from the parking company demanding various payments that kept escalating for none payment. This then changed to letters from a debt collection agency threatening to take me to court, at which point I felt obliged to write and tell them I didn't owe them anything and they should cease contacting me as I was moving to America (all be it for only three months but I didn't tell them that) I'm told I recieved a further letter from them after that but my former house mate popped it back in the mail return to sender no longer at this address for me. Presumabley at some point they gave up but my housemates moved out shortly after me so I have no idea when they eventually stopped.
Had one after parking in a leisure centre car park and not using the facilities. Recieved a few letters from the parking company demanding various payments that kept escalating for none payment. This then changed to letters from a debt collection agency threatening to take me to court, at which point I felt obliged to write and tell them I didn't owe them anything and they should cease contacting me as I was moving to America (all be it for only three months but I didn't tell them that) I'm told I recieved a further letter from them after that but my former house mate popped it back in the mail return to sender no longer at this address for me. Presumabley at some point they gave up but my housemates moved out shortly after me so I have no idea when they eventually stopped.
In reply to Nicola: I have had these and it can be quite unnerving but just ignore all the letters, nothing happened.
In reply to Nicola: if you are in a union ask them to deal with it, im a steward and quite used to wiping the floor with arseholes like this. youve paid for your parking, you were not trying to evade paying- yes you should display your permit but do they have proof that you didnt? one word against another - no chance in court.
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