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Does this happen in the UK?
I seem to recall separate rooms or walls but not lead and top rope routes as the same.
In reply to Removed User:
I am slightly confused by your question. Do you mean do some walls have both lead climbs and top rope climbs on the same line?
If so generally not as it means pulling down the ropes. If you mean do centres have both lead climbing and top roping then yes.
I am slightly confused by your question. Do you mean do some walls have both lead climbs and top rope climbs on the same line?
If so generally not as it means pulling down the ropes. If you mean do centres have both lead climbing and top roping then yes.
In reply to Removed User:
in our local wall (glasgow) the leading and toproping are in the only hall apart from a beginer room with only top roping. there are screwgates at the top of all the lead walls so that they can be climbed toprope if you want and sometimes the wall put them up or you can do it yourself.
think that answers your question
in our local wall (glasgow) the leading and toproping are in the only hall apart from a beginer room with only top roping. there are screwgates at the top of all the lead walls so that they can be climbed toprope if you want and sometimes the wall put them up or you can do it yourself.
think that answers your question
In reply to Removed User:
Yes. Some places, e.g. Leeds wall, have top rope lines which also have quickdraws and an additional screw gate at the top to clip in to.
Othe places let you pull the top rope if you want to lead a line.
Yes. Some places, e.g. Leeds wall, have top rope lines which also have quickdraws and an additional screw gate at the top to clip in to.
Othe places let you pull the top rope if you want to lead a line.
In reply to Removed User:
can't say I've ever seen it. don't know if you *could* lead a toproped route. Presumably there are rules to say 'no pulling down topropes' or 'no leading amongst the topropes', which would make sense.
There are lead routes near to topropes that i can remember at westway and the castle in london, though there is a degree of physical separation: toprope in a chimmney or round a corner from the leads.
can't say I've ever seen it. don't know if you *could* lead a toproped route. Presumably there are rules to say 'no pulling down topropes' or 'no leading amongst the topropes', which would make sense.
There are lead routes near to topropes that i can remember at westway and the castle in london, though there is a degree of physical separation: toprope in a chimmney or round a corner from the leads.
In reply to thin bob: Our local wall has twin lower offs at the top of each line so if you feel the need you can lead a route that has an in-situ top-rope.
In reply to Removed User: Where I climb some lines are lead only but any top rope line can be lead.
In reply to JoshOvki:
Yes. this is what I meant.
We have this over here but I don't recall seeing it in the UK.
What are the rules about pulling ropes and leading?
We can't lead if it is busy or if there is someone on the route to either side.
> (In reply to Minneconjou Sioux)
>
> Do you mean do some walls have both lead climbs and top rope climbs on the same line?
>
>>
> Do you mean do some walls have both lead climbs and top rope climbs on the same line?
>
Yes. this is what I meant.
We have this over here but I don't recall seeing it in the UK.
What are the rules about pulling ropes and leading?
We can't lead if it is busy or if there is someone on the route to either side.
In reply to Removed User: Where i climb many of the lines have both top ropes and quickdraws on. As in chris j's example there are twin lower-offs so the in situ top ropes never need to be pulled. There are some lead only lines as well but that doesn't stop you putting a top rope in.
In reply to _MJC_:
In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs.
There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these.
In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs.
There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these.
In reply to Removed User:
Most of the walls have been to have both lead walls and top rope climbs in the same area and often on the same route, where they appear on the same route, there is usually a mallion at the top for the top rope and a seperate screw gate for the lead route.
Obviously you can't lead on a route that someone is top roping, but in my experience of wall etiquette, lead climbers take precedence if already on a route when a top rope climber starts on an adjacent route.
Most of the walls have been to have both lead walls and top rope climbs in the same area and often on the same route, where they appear on the same route, there is usually a mallion at the top for the top rope and a seperate screw gate for the lead route.
Obviously you can't lead on a route that someone is top roping, but in my experience of wall etiquette, lead climbers take precedence if already on a route when a top rope climber starts on an adjacent route.
In reply to Removed User:
Am I reading this right? They make you pull a top rope down and lead climb on it? I wouldn't want to use a walls rope, even if it was one just for climbing. I certainly wouldn't want to use one that is normally sat in situ for top roping.
> (In reply to Removed User_MJC_)
>
> In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs.
>
> There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these.
>
> In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs.
>
> There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these.
Am I reading this right? They make you pull a top rope down and lead climb on it? I wouldn't want to use a walls rope, even if it was one just for climbing. I certainly wouldn't want to use one that is normally sat in situ for top roping.
In reply to staceyjg:
That's a slightly odd comment. The climber who sets off first has priority - and it's as simple as that really. It's only an issue anyway if the routes cross over. If you are on a panel adjacent to someone leading, I think most people take care not to risk lobbing off and knocking the leader off if they ard directly below you.
> in my experience of wall etiquette, lead climbers take precedence if already on a route when a top rope climber starts on an adjacent route.
That's a slightly odd comment. The climber who sets off first has priority - and it's as simple as that really. It's only an issue anyway if the routes cross over. If you are on a panel adjacent to someone leading, I think most people take care not to risk lobbing off and knocking the leader off if they ard directly below you.
In reply to argyle_dude:
Yes.
>I wouldn't want to use a walls rope, even if it was one just for climbing. I certainly wouldn't want to use one that is normally sat in situ for top roping.
Took a bit of getting used to but it doesn't really bother me. The fall factors are pretty low.
> (In reply to Minneconjou Sioux)
> [...]
>
> Am I reading this right? They make you pull a top rope down and lead climb on it?
> [...]
>
> Am I reading this right? They make you pull a top rope down and lead climb on it?
Yes.
>I wouldn't want to use a walls rope, even if it was one just for climbing. I certainly wouldn't want to use one that is normally sat in situ for top roping.
Took a bit of getting used to but it doesn't really bother me. The fall factors are pretty low.
In reply to JonC:
Its more about a lead climber falling on a top roper and hurting them.
> (In reply to staceyjg)
>
> [...]
>
> That's a slightly odd comment. The climber who sets off first has priority - and it's as simple as that really. It's only an issue anyway if the routes cross over. If you are on a panel adjacent to someone leading, I think most people take care not to risk lobbing off and knocking the leader off if they ard directly below you.
>
> [...]
>
> That's a slightly odd comment. The climber who sets off first has priority - and it's as simple as that really. It's only an issue anyway if the routes cross over. If you are on a panel adjacent to someone leading, I think most people take care not to risk lobbing off and knocking the leader off if they ard directly below you.
Its more about a lead climber falling on a top roper and hurting them.
In reply to Removed User:
where i climb if you lead a route with top rope in situ you pull it down and lead with your own rope. Clip the centres rope to your gear loops and replace. I wouldn't lead on the centres rope, and equally, they don't want you leading on it either.
where i climb if you lead a route with top rope in situ you pull it down and lead with your own rope. Clip the centres rope to your gear loops and replace. I wouldn't lead on the centres rope, and equally, they don't want you leading on it either.
In reply to Removed User:
Here its all top rope, aside from the roofs.
There are quickdraws already hanging on the walls.
You bring your own rope for leading. Gym doesn't like to lend them out.
Pulling down existing top ropes to use...seems nasty. Some of those look like their cross section changes by a factor of 2 over their length. Not to mention presumably the customer of unknown competence would resetup the TR after.
Here its all top rope, aside from the roofs.
There are quickdraws already hanging on the walls.
You bring your own rope for leading. Gym doesn't like to lend them out.
Pulling down existing top ropes to use...seems nasty. Some of those look like their cross section changes by a factor of 2 over their length. Not to mention presumably the customer of unknown competence would resetup the TR after.
In reply to trants1:
The problem is that there aren't spare lower-offs so you would end up with two ropes running through the same lower-offs and getting rope on rope contact.
The problem is that there aren't spare lower-offs so you would end up with two ropes running through the same lower-offs and getting rope on rope contact.
In reply to Removed User:
Well of course it's up to everyone to make their own risk assessments but it is noticeable that most lead climbers fall off less than top ropers. maybe there shouldn't be such a disparity but there is (lead climbers dont tend to push it quite as much). Hence it's generally far more likely that a top roper will fall off and take out a leader below them on rope stretch etc.
Clearly if youre leading you're v careful about whar's in your fall path. That gies without saying.
> (In reply to Removed UserJonC)
> [...]
>
> Its more about a lead climber falling on a top roper and hurting them.
> [...]
>
> Its more about a lead climber falling on a top roper and hurting them.
Well of course it's up to everyone to make their own risk assessments but it is noticeable that most lead climbers fall off less than top ropers. maybe there shouldn't be such a disparity but there is (lead climbers dont tend to push it quite as much). Hence it's generally far more likely that a top roper will fall off and take out a leader below them on rope stretch etc.
Clearly if youre leading you're v careful about whar's in your fall path. That gies without saying.
In reply to JoshOvki:
My local has topropes hanging down about half their lead lines, you just pull them aside to lead.
jk
> I am slightly confused by your question. Do you mean do some walls have both lead climbs and top rope climbs on the same line?
> If so generally not as it means pulling down the ropes. If you mean do centres have both lead climbing and top roping then yes.
> If so generally not as it means pulling down the ropes. If you mean do centres have both lead climbing and top roping then yes.
My local has topropes hanging down about half their lead lines, you just pull them aside to lead.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
Can't do that in this case as there are no spare lower-offs.
> (In reply to JoshOvki)
>
> [...]
>
> My local has topropes hanging down about half their lead lines, you just pull them aside to lead.
> jk
>
> [...]
>
> My local has topropes hanging down about half their lead lines, you just pull them aside to lead.
> jk
Can't do that in this case as there are no spare lower-offs.
In reply to Removed User:
At Kendal wall there are top ropes in place. If leading we generally pulled it down, lead the route. Then went back up and put the rope back through, or put it on a route next to it..
At Kendal wall there are top ropes in place. If leading we generally pulled it down, lead the route. Then went back up and put the rope back through, or put it on a route next to it..
In reply to Removed User:
Have a look?
> (In reply to Removed Userjkarran)
> [...]
>
> Can't do that in this case as there are no spare lower-offs.
> [...]
>
> Can't do that in this case as there are no spare lower-offs.
Have a look?
In reply to Removed User:
I'll add to the happy crowd where most routes are leadable. Those which have top-ropes also have spare screwgates at the top for a leader to clip into. You just move the top-rope out of the way (to the side or simlar) and lead away.
There's a few routes where leading is not allowed, which have neither in-situ quickdraws nor bolt hangers, but those are limited to the beginner's slabs.
I'll add to the happy crowd where most routes are leadable. Those which have top-ropes also have spare screwgates at the top for a leader to clip into. You just move the top-rope out of the way (to the side or simlar) and lead away.
There's a few routes where leading is not allowed, which have neither in-situ quickdraws nor bolt hangers, but those are limited to the beginner's slabs.
In reply to Removed User:
At my local wall all routes are bolted for leading, including the top rope ones. You have to pull down the wall's rope and use your own for leading, then put their rope back up. I assumed it was like that everywhere.
At my local wall all routes are bolted for leading, including the top rope ones. You have to pull down the wall's rope and use your own for leading, then put their rope back up. I assumed it was like that everywhere.
In reply to Removed User:
Jump from the top, lower off the quickdraws?
jk
> Can't do that in this case as there are no spare lower-offs.
Jump from the top, lower off the quickdraws?
jk
In reply to jkarran:
Our local wall you often have to traverse across to a spare lower off at the top.
Our local wall you often have to traverse across to a spare lower off at the top.
In reply to John_Hat:
+ 1
> I'll add to the happy crowd where most routes are leadable. Those which have top-ropes also have spare screwgates at the top for a leader to clip into. You just move the top-rope out of the way (to the side or simlar) and lead away.
+ 1
In reply to JoshOvki:
It doesn't mean pulling down the ropes if, as at both Big Rock and the Pinnacle at least (and PyB wall, if I remember rightly), there are two carabiners at the top of each route. The top rope can get in the way, but usually it can be got sufficiently out of the way by sticking it in a clip on an adjacent route.
At the Pinnacle it's completely mixed-up, at Big Rock all the routes in the group area have top ropes and some of the routes in the pit do (and you can stick your own up if you want, obviously).
I prefer this, as it means I can top-rope routes before I lead them, as I've not always got the confidence to lead a difficult route "first go".
Neil
It doesn't mean pulling down the ropes if, as at both Big Rock and the Pinnacle at least (and PyB wall, if I remember rightly), there are two carabiners at the top of each route. The top rope can get in the way, but usually it can be got sufficiently out of the way by sticking it in a clip on an adjacent route.
At the Pinnacle it's completely mixed-up, at Big Rock all the routes in the group area have top ropes and some of the routes in the pit do (and you can stick your own up if you want, obviously).
I prefer this, as it means I can top-rope routes before I lead them, as I've not always got the confidence to lead a difficult route "first go".
Neil
In reply to Removed User:
"In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs."
Given how un-stretchy some centre top ropes are over here I must admit I'm not a fan of that idea
"There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these."
Generally in the UK it's the case that walls will *not allow* you to lead on their ropes, you must supply your own.
Neil
"In this case, the in-situ ropes have to be pulled and used as the lead rope as there aren't spare lower offs."
Given how un-stretchy some centre top ropes are over here I must admit I'm not a fan of that idea
"There are a couple of lead only routes and the wall supplies the lead rope for these."
Generally in the UK it's the case that walls will *not allow* you to lead on their ropes, you must supply your own.
Neil
In reply to JonC:
Indeed... I think in the US leading is considered pretty advanced (with a lot of walls having minimum grade before you can even go there), whereas I did my first lead when the best I could climb was a 4. So I prefer the idea of most routes being leadable.
Big Rock have a 3+ and a 4+ in the pit which are perfect for learning and improving the techniques involved in leading without much[1] risk of falling off (so taking the nerves out for a bit).
[1] Any for most people, but as I'm the best part of 18st I have a bit of a habit of spinning holds...
Neil
Indeed... I think in the US leading is considered pretty advanced (with a lot of walls having minimum grade before you can even go there), whereas I did my first lead when the best I could climb was a 4. So I prefer the idea of most routes being leadable.
Big Rock have a 3+ and a 4+ in the pit which are perfect for learning and improving the techniques involved in leading without much[1] risk of falling off (so taking the nerves out for a bit).
[1] Any for most people, but as I'm the best part of 18st I have a bit of a habit of spinning holds...
Neil
In reply to Hooo:
In my experience, most such places won't let you pull the top rope down and replace it, but insist you lead with the top rope still in place (perhaps pulled aside). The reason given being that you might not replace it correctly, and they're the ones who are liable if someone then has an accident.
> At my local wall all routes are bolted for leading, including the top rope ones. You have to pull down the wall's rope and use your own for leading, then put their rope back up
In my experience, most such places won't let you pull the top rope down and replace it, but insist you lead with the top rope still in place (perhaps pulled aside). The reason given being that you might not replace it correctly, and they're the ones who are liable if someone then has an accident.
In reply to Toreador:
Funnily enough, at this wall (K2 in Crawley) it's the opposite. They have signs all over the place saying that you must remove the top rope before leading, because running both ropes through the lower offs is wearing the wall ropes.
Funnily enough, at this wall (K2 in Crawley) it's the opposite. They have signs all over the place saying that you must remove the top rope before leading, because running both ropes through the lower offs is wearing the wall ropes.
In reply to Hooo:
These walls both have separate lower-offs for leading and top-roping.
These walls both have separate lower-offs for leading and top-roping.
In reply to Toreador:
That's probably a better way of doing it. A regular event for me is descending knackered from the last route of the evening, and then realising that I've forgotten to unclip the fixed quickdraws from the rope. This means that you can't pull the rope through, so you have to climb it again to put the wall's rope back up.
That's probably a better way of doing it. A regular event for me is descending knackered from the last route of the evening, and then realising that I've forgotten to unclip the fixed quickdraws from the rope. This means that you can't pull the rope through, so you have to climb it again to put the wall's rope back up.
In reply to Removed User:
Most top ropes I come across at walls seem static, really not suitable for a lead fall.
To the best of my knowledge, no wall in the UK will allow you to use their ropes for leading. You have to supply your own.
Most walls I've been to have separate lines for leading and top roping, but some do combine them, or they're next to each other. Leeds wall and Craggy comes to mind. Also The Edge has a few routes next to each other plus on some top rope routes, there are bolts so you can lead and place your own quick draws.
Leeds wall also has some top rope routes with eyes that you can put your own quickdraws in. In all these walls, you're supposed to leave the top rope in situ, or just move to one side. There's no way you are allowed to pull the rope down then lead using it. Actually in most walls I know of it would be dangerous as the top ropes are often cut to size, so you'd be in danger of the rope running out if you tried tying in (I do know of one broken back at one wall from some idiot who tried this).
Most top ropes I come across at walls seem static, really not suitable for a lead fall.
To the best of my knowledge, no wall in the UK will allow you to use their ropes for leading. You have to supply your own.
Most walls I've been to have separate lines for leading and top roping, but some do combine them, or they're next to each other. Leeds wall and Craggy comes to mind. Also The Edge has a few routes next to each other plus on some top rope routes, there are bolts so you can lead and place your own quick draws.
Leeds wall also has some top rope routes with eyes that you can put your own quickdraws in. In all these walls, you're supposed to leave the top rope in situ, or just move to one side. There's no way you are allowed to pull the rope down then lead using it. Actually in most walls I know of it would be dangerous as the top ropes are often cut to size, so you'd be in danger of the rope running out if you tried tying in (I do know of one broken back at one wall from some idiot who tried this).
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