UKC

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2103718/North-Face-jackets-favour...

I don't own a single TNF item but it is nothinh to do with this; partly to do with the quality partly to do with the "urban mountaineer' thing, and a dose of snobbery

In reply to andic:

Shame the DM can't tell the difference between a fleece and a down jacket

In reply to andic:

I would have thought that Patagonia using the same down supplier was more of a story tbh. Not for the Daily Mail readership I suppose, but I would say Patagonia trade more on their ethics than TNF.

In reply to andic:

Not sure what the problem is. Surely it would be unethical to waste the by-product down?

As for the force-feeding, it looks bad on photographs but then so does milking cows, and I'm assured that they queue up to be fed so it can't be so bad.

In reply to andic:

So, what's the problem? TNF thought they were being supplied with down that wasn't supplied by force-feeding farms and an investigation by Patagonia (who buy from the same source) has revealed that this is not the case.

So, 2 heavyweights in the outdoor industry can now take action to redress this issue. They surely have the clout to lean on the farms to either sort themselves out or they'll go elsewhere - assuming legal procedings aren't already in place for some sort of breach of contract somewhere along the line.

In the first place, surely the force-feeding fault lies with the food industry - of which the down is purely a by-product.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

as poster above has pointed out the fault is not as it looks.

But to answer your point
"Not sure what the problem is. Surely it would be unethical to waste the by-product down?"

the problem is that by buying a TNF jacket a farm the consumer believes to be inethical would be profiting.

Ethical buying isn't about saving the animals that are already dead, it's about reducing the profit made from the practice in the hope to influence ethical standards in companies in the future.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I don't have a problem actually. A fashion brand using a by-product of meat production. We were trolled on this subject about 2 months ago tho'

In reply to andic:
Impressive how they managed to work a BBC knock even into this.

In reply to andic:

There is evidence that geese will gorge on food themselves if they are given it. heard a few people talk about this, so in time if people vote with their feet then farmers may change their methods,

I wonder who can say their goose down doesnt come from Foie gras, I know ME are doing their down codex thing, but thats not all the downs they use just some.

Then there is the live plucking thing, which is still happening

Interestingly the daily mail talk about synthetic alternatives, so they are not concerned about increased carbon footprints from oil based hollow fibres....

In reply to andic: We have a very odd selective blindness when it comes to food production. Frankly, I'd rather fois gras than a Danish bacon sandwich. Come to that rather a high welfare veal schnitzel than a pint of bog standard milk. There are a lot of bad things going on in food production. A thousand worse things happen in a "little red tractor" poultry unit every day, but it's the media friendly and the unusual that get the attention. I also so suspect that there's a shadow of the class thing going on- it's the toffs that eat fois gras,even though the biggest welfare horror is the Tesco Value skinless chicken breasts

In reply to toad: The obvious solution is veganism.

In reply to andic: The 'trolling' was me and I was just raising this exact point. I agree with the above poster though that the companies involved can have a big impact on the production, as such can do a lot of good here if they choose to.
Funny how it is seen as 'trolling' until the subject is raised in the National press, then it is acceptable to debate it rationally.

In reply to Ducks Rock: In fairness, you didn't mention that your Mastermind specialist subject was duck welfare, and dressed your OP up as a "hey everybody! I've just read this interesting article, what do you think". If not trolling, then frankly a bit disingenuous...

In reply to toad: Ahh I see, so if my mastermind specialist Subject had instead been fish welfare or perhaps chicken welfare,or indeed rotary engines of the 1980's then my OP would have been an acceptable post? Does it not make sense that I would be interested in a subject surrounding my area of interest. I would love to have the time to look into other ethical areas of clothing production such as child labour etc... However I don't, as such do not comment on them, that doesn't mean to say I am not interested. If a child labour ethical question was bought to my attention somehow in relation to climbing gear would I be 'ok' to post about that? Or would that also be disingenuous? I may be a secret campaigner for childrens rights. I don't see your point here.

In reply to Ducks Rock: My point? Bluntly? You posted like a spammer.

Might not have been your intention, but that's how it came over. " Hey I've just seen this article about 80% off TNF down jackets. Click dodgyknockoff.com for details". Not entirely your fault, but I can understand why people were suspicious, and you were a little slow to cough to what your real interests in posting were.

In reply to toad: my intention was for people to read the thing I posted. My post stated fully that it was about the ethics of down production. I am not sure how I could have been clearer. Even the title was pretty clear. Anyway, this is deviating from the original post here. I just hope that the poster isn't a supporter of duck welfare or he is in for a whole world of abuse. Just for the record, I quite like cats too, so we have got it all out in the open.

In reply to toad: I think the disingenuous ones here though are actually TNF. I contacted them before I bought anything from their range just 6 weeks ago, they assured me, in writing, that all their down products were from non foie gras or live plucked sources. All I hope is that now they can either be truthful or kick their welfare inspectors ass for not doing a proper job and making them look like liars.

In reply to andic:

i think TNF makes a lot of great gear. the toughest down jkt i own is from them.
saved me buying another, which saved a bit of down.