UKC

I'm just breaking into the E2 grade and have done a couple of soft touch ones in the local area (Shagrat at Goblin Coombe and Run for Home at Shorn Cliff). I'd very much appreciate some suggestions for other E2s in the Bristol/Wye Valley area.

What I'm after is routes that are lowish in the grade and with reasonable gear. I don't mind runouts as long as they co-incide with easier bits of climbing, but I don't fancy anything with serious ground fall potential!

All suggestions greatfully received.

In reply to hms:

Avon Gorge:

New Horizons II
Ffoeg's Folly (take some tiny wires)

Heartbeat City in the New Quarry is the easiest E2 I have found, anywhere.

In reply to hms:

Ironsides Men at Shorn Cliff i think would fit the bill, low in the grade apparently(my only E2 to date so i'm no expert), crux is well protected if a bit strenuous to get the gear in, then a big run out near the top through what i thought were 4c/5a moves..

In reply to lowersharpnose:

New Horizons II is a well protected roue on a good line. Strenuous if you don't climb it efficiently.

Ffoeg's Folly is two pitches. The first is an HVS flake, well protected but slippy in places due to polish. The second pitch has a crux near the top getting into and up a small corner. You need some small wires for this, they are good.

In reply to hms:

Wintour's Leap

Yesterday's Dreams

Swanson Prelude - I thought this was great, some UKC comments suggest that it is hard and/or scary.

Isn't New Horizons II E3 in some guides?

Shorncliffe - Run for Home is lovely isn't it. Touch the Fire is quite easy if you put a nice high side runner in the crack to the right; main difficulties over by about 5 metres up. I've heard Second Wind is alright though haven't done it yet.

Wintours - Swansong Prelude is gnarly if you take the direct 5c start. Easier if you come in from the right but only E1 then. Still the bottom is basically a boulder problem (though quite a high one) so if you like the look of it then have a go. Keep something in reserve for the E1 top though.

Valley Forge at Wintour's is great. Short though intensely balancey crux section at the top. I gather they've cleared the smashed telly and scooter from the foot of the route now.

Pig Iron is about HVS if you're cunning with gear - tie down a dodgy spike runner by the crux.

Also on Wintours, Childhoods End is quite hard on the crux though it's bolted. Big Brother quite hard as well though has pegs, and Yesterday's Dreams hard too though pegged and bolted where it matters.

In reply to hms: Thanks for all the great suggestions - I'll have a look at the descriptions of those routes and hope to get on some of them very soon.

I thought it well worth asking advice after having a go at Bulging Flies at Wintours Leap, which was hard hard hard!! Failed to even dog to the top as I ran out of big gear.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

2004 Avon guide gave it E3; no one i knew whilst in Bristol agreed with the upgrade. It's pretty steady for E2.

Us and Banshee at the foot of the ramp are another couple to consider.

Does Padansac get E1 or 2 nowadays? Either way, another quick drying Sea Walls route to do.

In reply to ally smith:

I considered recommending Banshee, does have fall potential at the crux.

Us is good.

IIRC, Padansac was scary at E1 with rusty pegs, small wires, plenty of polish
and a top trick section moving away from gear.

Wurlitzer at E1 on Fly Wall is good.

In reply to hms: A quick peruse of my logbook suggests the following might be good (probably some repetition of other peoples suggestions):
Shorn Cliff:
Second Wind E2 5b
Touch the Fire E2 5c
Run for home E2 5b
Ironside's men E2 5b

Wintours Leap:
Papillion E2 5b

Fairy cave quarry:
Slight of Hand E2 5c
Lumbar Puncture E2 5c

Note that the stuff at FCQ tends to not be overly well protected, though in general the routes are all overgraded by at least a full grade!

In reply to hms:

New Horizons II - no idea why it's been upgraded. The CC guide says it's because of a lost peg, but I really didn't feel the protection was inadequate.

Ffoeg's folly - Second pitch is scary, wouldn't recommend it for breaking in...

My first two were "The Don" and "Zulu", both at Wyndcliff. The former is particularly recommended - good gear in a corner all the way up, fixed thread where you need it, a bit sustained but great if you like bridging!

In reply to Nick Russell:
I can see how New Horizons done as a whole could warrant E3 it's a far bigger undertaking than Ffoegs Folly which let's face it is a bit of a one move wonder in comparison.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

Sure, I'd agree that New Horizons should be E3. To clarify, "New Horizons" here refers to the climb from road level up the arete to the top of the ramp and, as you say, is quite a big undertaking. "New Horizons II" is the single pitch from the top of the ramp to the Downs and should not be more than E2. I think we're probably in agreement...

In reply to hms:

I like Goblin Coombe. There is plenty more for you try there right? The Goblin King? And then the E3 variant, the Goblin Queen to work towards. There is one in car park bay as well which is alright - no where near as good as the main crag though.

In reply to Nick Russell:

It's back at E2 for both the forthcoming CC Avon and Select guides you'll be pleased to hear, from my suggestion.

In reply to hms:

Hi

I'd agree with the suggestions of The Don and Zulu at Wynd Cliff - both low in the grade and well-protected for their crux sections - but the start of Zulu is quite bold - it's not hard, but does need care. Ironside's Men is a good call as well (I think the crux is a bit bold but safe, and the run-out bit above is steady). I wouldn't recommend Second Wind at all despite the suggestions above - I think it's very good value for the grade and the protection at the crux is a bit over-reliant on oldish pegs for my liking (though it is a good route).

However, my usual suggestion for a first E2 round these parts is Never Say Goodbye at Wintour's Leap. Sustained but never desperate, just about the best-protected pitch on the crag and impeccable climbing. The only snag is that a herring gull frequently decides to nest on it (at the Burning Giraffe break) - if you get in quick you might get there before it. One other thought is My Noble Son Seth at Symonds Yat - bit chilly at the moment as it's on a North-facing bit of the crag.

Incidentally, Swansong Prelude gets E2 whichever you do it, and Bulging Flies was just about the gnarliest choice of first E2 you could have attempted!

Rick

In reply to Rick Sewards:

Was going to post a reply to the OP, but now only need to say that I agree with everything Rick says (except that I can't comment on NSG, which I haven't done yet).

In reply to hms:

I think Lich Gates at Avon would suit you. First pitch is about HVS, on the second there is gear above your head on the crux, a committing move, not too hard though...
Big Brother is probably a harder crux, good gear though...both are great outings...

In reply to HappyTrundler: Unfortunately Lich Gates is closed until the end of June due to nesting restrictions

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=332

In reply to Nick Russell:

I wondered what nest that was that I sat in and smashed all the eggs...

In reply to hms: I have not read all the replies but bear in mind that the E2s at Avon are probably all a grade harder than the E2s in the Wye, particularly the ones at Shorncliffe.

In reply to hms:

Wintour's Leap is stacked with quality mild E-numbers, usually well protected. Firefly, Swansong Prelude, Papillon all weigh in at E2, if I recall. Lots of nice E3s, too - safe, but usually burly. A good place to push grades. Split Flies springs to mind. Reams of good E1s to get in the mood.

Shorncliff is the place for 'low in the grade' grades in general.

In reply to Richard Hall:

And two grades harder than the E2's at Fairy Cave Quarry...

In reply to HappyTrundler: Yeah at least!

Although the new FCQ guide should be here pretty soon which should address this (if Brian has done his job properly of course )

In reply to Richard Hall: Really? I didn't think that Lumbar Puncture at E2 was unfair? Yeah the climbing isn't massively hard but the gear is "poor", and I wouldn't say Ffoegs is any harder. I know there are some overgraded routes there, but some are cock on I'd say... As for Wye, Big Brother felt as hard as other E2's I've done as well, as did Solaris... maybe I'm missing something?

To the OP - I'm going to say "Valley Forge (Wintour's)" again btw just because nobody else has shown support for that route and I think I undersold it with my first comment. Low in the grade and really excellent balancey crux. You can warm up on Yr Hrwehla(?) to the right which is an easy amble up to a tricky E1 crux.

In reply to mike kann: My girlfriend (now wife) seconded me up Lumbar Puncture on her second ever day climbing. She was a bit disapointed when she later discovered she couldn't get up any other E2...

I went to Shorecliffe last year and a friend and I did 6 E2s (there probably are not many more than that at the crag), none of them felt harder than M1 to me.

In reply to Richard Hall: That may be so, but from my perspective, Ffoegs which admittedly is a bottom end E2, wasn't much different to lumbar puncture - they both have small gear and very on/off moves. LP is slightly easier technically, but you're still going to deck if your gear pops on it which is reasonably likely... You wouldnt' say Ffoegs is E1 would you?

In reply to mike kann: Oh hang on a tick - just looked at the logbooks again - you're right, Lumbar Puncture IS E1. I was thinking of Epic-dural... which is lots harder...

In reply to OP:

Incidentally, if you want a really soft touch, try Toblerone in Fairy Cave. Personally I think VS, but I do like slabs.

In response to a few folk:

Fairy Cave is like most places, some routes are harder than you would expect, some are lower. However they are mostly unprotectable slabs, which will feel technically easy for the (adjectival) grade providing you don't fall off.

Don't tar the whole place with the same brush, not least as there are some quite hard routes there and the last thing you want is some newbie wandering up thinking that all the routes are easy for the grade and having an epic, which could be painful given the lack of gear.

In reply to mike kann:

I thought Epic-dural was a very respectable E2. Certainly comparable to many E2's in the peak. In fact given a choice betwen that and, say, Four Pebble Slab (E3), I'd say they were similar difficulty and feeling of exposure(for me). In fact Four Pebble felt easier.

IIRC Lumber Puncture is the one with more gear than I would have expected for the grade (albeit all tiny stuff..)

In reply to John_Hat: No one has yet mentioned Punch and Judy at Wintour's - a short, balancey crux followed by a delightful pitch of sustained 5a.

In reply to Richard Hall:

There will indeed be some addressing of the grade issue, with the general trend a little downwards. However, I don't think the revisions are going to be enough to keep HT happy, judging by his last post.

In reply to hms:

Don fore sure, safe as, felt hvs to me

Yesterday's dreams has bolts where it counts so feels like 6a+

That one t shorn cliff next to motion pictures, bit bold to start but you can see what is involved from the bottom so have a look and take it or leave it, crimps involved on great positive concretions, warm up fingers first

Is chudeigh out of your range? Combined ops is worth a go, steep and more sustained than the adove but good gear, two 3/4 nuts needed on the crux so remember to bring

In reply to Owen W-G:

Would be Touch the Fire I think. Can see exactly what you are aiming for, a little in-situ thread that's just high enough to push it into the bold category. Can't remember why, but I did have a bit of a moment before I got that clipped.

In reply to Max factor:

How's junior mate?

In reply to Owen W-G:

Bueno thanks. I'll mail you through the forums as I'm not sure I have your address since you moved job.

In reply to Max factor:

Can't remember why, but I did have a bit of a moment before I got that clipped.

I think a common mistake is to be a little too hasty to get the thread clipped, and consequently overreach for it. Better to keep climbing until it's within easy reach, then sort the feet and clip in balance.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

But which kind of defeats the purpose of the OP, as this would presumably reduce the grade to E1.

In reply to bpmclimb: Depends how high you put the side runner I guess. It's still 5c climbing so unless you go for the "diagonal top rope" I'd say with or without the side runner is still E2.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

I reckon it is only just E2 5c so with any sort of side runner it will be E1

In reply to Formerly Known as Pylon King:

Unless the "side runner" is so high up Last Call that it is in fact a top-rope I can't see it's going to be any help at all - it just means your ankles will smack into the boulders on a diagonal trajectory (bearing in mind that the ground is higher on the right). So I'd say it's pointless as well as cheating! What is helpful is to have your belayer attached on a rope to a wire at the foot of Last Call, so they can spot you without fear of being knocked off the terrace.

I agree that Touch the Fire is low E2, but it's still a 5c move that have to do before clipping the first thread, and it's going to hurt if you blow it - you might not break anything but I wouldn't count on it. As the OP specifically said that ground falls from the crux were undesirable, I didn't include it in my list!

Rick

In reply to Rick Sewards:


I agree, not suitable for the OP, just pointing out that a high side runner (if it was any good) would possibly make it E1.

In reply to Max factor:

You can get a wire in below the crux of touch the fire which is just below your waist as you do the reach for the concretion if you clip it with a single krab. You can at the very least slump onto it if you bottle the reach. First runner is only the thread if you want it to be.

In reply to AJM:

E1 5c then

In reply to AJM:

Really? Never spotted that one, will have a look next time I'm there. Anyway, it's E2 cos the book says it is, and it's too late to change it for the supplement so it'll stay E2 for a few years yet...

Rick

In reply to Rick Sewards:

It's possible to lasso a tree at the top. Needs a mighty throw with a weighted rope, but reduces the grade to HS 5c.

Anyone who doesn't know how to tie a monkey's fist around a large ball bearing, feel free to get in touch - I can also recommend some specialized exercises in order to train the necessary arm and shoulder muscles.

In reply to bpmclimb:

(In the cold light of day) Sorry about that! One of those evenings, up late, whole bottle of wine to myself.

In reply to Rick Sewards:

It was a few years ago now but I recall something mid sized in a horizontal break sort of thing, I know he sat on/grabbed it a few times before committing to the stretch for the big concretion. Don't recall how useful it would be for an uncontrolled ping from those crimps but certainly gave him something to use if the sequence for the reach wasn't quite right.

In reply to AJM:
I seem to remember the crux only being about 2 metres off the ground.