UKC

I have only had one relatively small goal in climbing since starting and that was to climb F7a. It looks like that goal may be close, hopefully this year so now I'm left with the question what next?

Short to long term goals will probably be grade focused, E1 seems like a good goal but what about the future say the next 5 years?

Well after going to Yosemite last year I’d like to climb the North West face of Half Dome, free. What I’d like to know is how feasible is this? What UK trad grade should I be climbing at? What big wall routes should I climb first? Am I gonna Die?

P.S I ‘d like to climb it in this style as hauling does not look like fun:
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Half-Dome-Regular-Route-Big-Backpack-Strategy/t...

In reply to Tru:

Climbing with a pack isn't fun either. Why not just go light and do it in a day? I climbed it thirty something years ago and as we actually wanted to bivvy on Big Sandy we pulled a very light bag up the route. So light that I don't think we needed to haul in the big wall sense, just pulled hand over hand. On something that's only two days you don't need very much. However, if I ever did it again I'd go for it in a day.

In reply to Tru:

If you're close to climbing 7a you should be smashing E1's without a problem. Most E1's are probably around 6a/+

In reply to Kemics:

That's what I'm hoping. After I have ticked a couple of 7a's I'm planning on turning my attention to trad climbing.

In reply to Kemics:

That does not necessarily follow especially for people who started indoors. I know several climbers who climb F7a indoors but have real problems on outdoors F6a's and when trying trad have to drop as low as VS. They all told me the same thing, they could not "read" the routes.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

I completely agree with this; and as an indoor punter my route reading is rubbish, however the 7a's I refer to are outdoors.

Thanks you for considering my safety, I do attend to progress slow and steady through the grades. I have only had a couple of weekends trad experience and currently find VS to be about my grade, it is diffcult not to carried away though as the climbing feels very easy. I'd like to climb with more experienced trad climbers to check my placements and climbing (hint, hint.)

In reply to Tru: You should not rush this. You need to learn how to read routes, place gear and handle suspect rock. These skills only come with getting some mileage in. I have also noticed that many indoor climbers do not have much technique relying on strength and adrenalin. It gets them up routes but if applied outdoors would soon lead to serious problems.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

I was thinking outdoor's F7a, as you should have your eye in for spotting rests, sequences etc really you just need to learn how to place gear and adapt your tactics. But definitely nothing wrong with taking it slow and familiarising yourself with the grades.

It's my long term climbing goal to free long yosemite routes. I'm aiming to be climbing somewhere around 5.11/5.12 which in old money probably means solid onsighting 6c/7a....not trad so much as alpine sport

In reply to Tru: I thought every just did it in a day these days. However, that might be more a reflection of the climbers I know rather than what is practical for most people.

However, if you are thinking about getting on f7a sport routes you should be climbing well protected E2/E3 trad routes - proper big routes, not gritsone or small outcrops. There are stacks of routes out there that are extremely safe and very straightforward to climb in terms of gear placements that will help you progress your trad climbing fairly quickly. Get out of your head any notion that you need to be able to climb ALL HVSs/E1s before you try E2/E3s. You will progress far better taking an occasional safe fall on a well protected E2 rather than trying to spend all your time 'consolidating' at HVS/E1 and then ruining your confidence when you scare yourself shitless and bail-off of a runout or extremely awkward HVS.

In reply to Tru:

If you can climb solid at E1 and can do straightforward clean aid the Regular Route is a perfectly achievable objective.

I idi it in 96, hauling, at the time we thought it would have been better to 'do in a day' until we got caught by a storm around Big Sandy, which appeared pretty much out of nowhere. We bivied with two other parties. (Silvo Karo and Aischen Rupp meanwhile on a day trip of the Direct, passed us on the ledge and topped out in the storm - hard core!)

Aiming to do it fast in a day, is the tempting option, but remember it can get 'medievel on yo ass' if the weather turns. It is an Alpine rock climb, not a 'rock climb'.

But in five years, gotta be worth aiming for.

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake:

.....but the OP actually says, "I’d like to climb the North West face of Half Dome, free." Must be at least E5 surely.

In reply to Chris Shorter:

Hmm. you're right @5.12 E1 to E5 would be a stretch for many in 5 yrs..... Along with the other skills that would be required.

He could do what a lot do though, and do it 'conventionally' then with the knowledge go for the free in a day thing.

If I were ever to go back on it it would be to do it in a day, but pulling/resting where I needed to.....And that might be quite often!

Regards,

Steve

In reply to Tru:

E5 or 6 I'd say.

It's also a style thing.

In reply to DaveHK:

Fair enough it's prob not going to happen then. I'm kind of put off by the whole aiding thing but that is prob because I know very little about it. I guess if you are finishing the route in a day or two you are not doing too much aiding more French free? Excuse my ignorance.

Getting solid on E1 is much more likely and could even be possible in two years meaning this could be a 30th birthday present!

How long would the aiding / 'other skills' take to learn? is this something Plas y Brenin could help me with?

Cheers for all your help, and again if any of you hardend trad dogs fancy taking a punter out drop me an email.

In reply to Tru:

Why not set your long term sights on another big multi-pitch adventure in Yosemite? Something like the Serenity Crack & Sons of Yesterday link up at Royal Arches?

It's 3 pitches of E3 followed by 5 pitches of E1/E2.

It could be a great stepping stone to freeing Half Dome and it's widely considered "the best 5.10 in North America".

In reply to Tru:

That grade is a guess based on my experience of US grades as I've not done it.

Lots of people do it basically just pulling on gear and the odd section of more sustained but straightforward aid.

In that style it's not unrealistic.

In reply to Tru:

We did the NW Regular in a long day (just carrying a bum-bag and a pint of water each). If you can climb E1, you can free climb +90% of the route. The bolt ladders are short lived and very straightforward. That just about leaves the Zigzags - E4/5 all free, E1 & A1 with rest points as and when you need them!


Chris

In reply to Styx:
>

Only one pitch is E3 on SCSoY. It is good though!

In reply to Tru:

French free - very doable. And you can self teach basic aid climbing, it ain't that hard.

Steve

In reply to Tru: there ARE plenty of goals somewhere in betweeen in yosemite, rostrum, west face of el cap.

aiding is not hard to learn, brenin have run courses in the past, twid turner or steve long would probably do one privately and if it u and a mate it wouldn,t be particularly expensive.

If yosemite is the goal u need to goto ,millstone, clmb most of the hvs, then e1 then E2 and 3 mostly very safe and obviouos when not.

How long has 7a taken u? the E5 leaders i now are mostly 8a sporters....

In reply to Chris Craggs: If you did the Zig Zags free in a one day ascent Chris, damn fine climbing sir!

We did a one day ascent, but have to admit to 'jugging' on some of the bolts on the last sections of the zig zags - well it was getting nearly dusk was our excuse

Mind you, getting back down with only one head torch (which ran out) was both interesting and bruising!!!!

In reply to Goucho:

Sadly no, I'm guessing we used 2 - 3 points of French Free on the 1st and 3rd of the Zigzags. 10.5 hours base to summit - though, so not a bad effort. Made it back to the Mountain Bar in good order the same evening.

Glory days!!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: Still a fine ascent Chris - better than ours by about 5 points and 3 hours ))))

And we didn't make it back to the bar at all - got lost, and being utterly knackered, and without illumination, ended up getting lost and spending most of the night sat propped up against a tree having a blazing row!!!!

Same old story days...lol.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

What about the slab near the top that famously stopped Jim Erickson, preventing him form making the FFA?

In reply to Chris Shorter:

The original route bypasses that to the left at A1 (according to a topo on the web) - I assume we went that way. I said earlier that we used the short bolt ladders of the original line. They were 6" nails, hammered into alu sleeving and bent over to reduce the leverage.

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Is this the bolt ladder about 10 pitches up below the chimneys?
I know we pulled on some crap on that route in places, but I don't remember any 6" nails! (thankfully)

To the OP - we were climbing E2/3 at the time and it took us 1.5 days. I think everyone goes light on the route these days. We could have probably got it in a day albeit in darkness, but we wasted time trying to get off Big Sandy ledge on the wrong line and then seemed to just run out of momentum.
We french freed most of the harder bits and didn't take any specialist aiding kit.
Probably worth getting on some ~10 pitch routes somewhere in Europe first just to get efficient a climbing bigger routes.

In reply to alasdair19:

The E5 leader I always used to climb with was more like F7b on bolts.

He always did his sport onsight though, so maybe that's not too disimilar to F8a redpoint?

To the OP, find a topo and check out the highest pitch grades. Find a conversion table and convert to French and British grades. And then there are three issues:

Getting to a standard where you can pretty solidly onsight that grade.
Being able to do that on a long route.
Being able to do that on Yosemite style granite cracks and slabs.

The first is just about getting better at climbing and the grades are not ridiculous so if you're committed enough you will be able to get there, barring disaster of some sort, but you might have to climb a lot to do so because they're not punter grades either.
The second probably requires some trips to European alpine sport routes, or slightly easier big routes in North America if you prefer. To avoid being affected by the length of the NW Face you're going to need to have done quite a few big, tough routes (maybe a dozen?)
The third just requires spending some time climbing in Yosemite (so don't go for a week) and not giving up when you get your arse massively caned on the first routes you try.

I don't see any reason why the NW Face free is unrealistic for you, or anyone else, but it is pretty hard so would require dedication of a major part of the next few years of your life. I wouldn't set that as a target for myself because I know I'm not going to commit that much of the next bit of my life to climbing, but it could be a good target because, unlike some big, famous routes, it isn't conditions dependent, and the weather is mostly good. On the other hand it's a long way to go if it turns into a project and you have to go back a few times.

In reply to Tru: I 'walked' up the traditional way hauling on the cable. Got chatting to someone on top who told me of a late season climb on your route. Not the easy descent they expected - all the iron posts and the cable had been removed. Must have been quite awkward sliding down the slope of polished granite!

In reply to altirando:

I thought they removed the posts but left the cable there?

In reply to Toreador:
So did I.

We went down mostly on the outside of the cables anyway to avoid delays passing the trekkers coming up