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As some of you might know I was recently involved in an accident while cycling (Lorry hit me).
Well apparently the driver has just found out about my claim (as recommended I went to a solicitor) and is suprised as he didn't know anything about it. I suspect that's a fib as I hit the cab :-P It also means the Police haven't spoken to him. I rang them to get more infor but the Policeman dealing with it is away and the one I spoke to couldn't find it on the computer :-/
Anyway I'm getting side tracked. His insurers are basically denying the accident happened. I just wondered, if it goes to court, how am I likely t fare? I have a witness who saw it, but apparently a witness isn't evidence and can only back up evidence - I guess incase I paid a witness to make it up? Obviously I had injuries and went to hospital in an ambulance so that much count as evidence I was hit by something. Plus I have my broken bike.
Just I'm only persuing him for the cost of getting my bike repaired, if I have to start taking time off to go to court and stuff it's not going to be good :-/
Well apparently the driver has just found out about my claim (as recommended I went to a solicitor) and is suprised as he didn't know anything about it. I suspect that's a fib as I hit the cab :-P It also means the Police haven't spoken to him. I rang them to get more infor but the Policeman dealing with it is away and the one I spoke to couldn't find it on the computer :-/
Anyway I'm getting side tracked. His insurers are basically denying the accident happened. I just wondered, if it goes to court, how am I likely t fare? I have a witness who saw it, but apparently a witness isn't evidence and can only back up evidence - I guess incase I paid a witness to make it up? Obviously I had injuries and went to hospital in an ambulance so that much count as evidence I was hit by something. Plus I have my broken bike.
Just I'm only persuing him for the cost of getting my bike repaired, if I have to start taking time off to go to court and stuff it's not going to be good :-/
In reply to Richard Carter: CCTv?
Surely not - a witness statement is, by definition, evidence of fact. The witness has to sign a Statement of Truth attesting to its truth.
Who told you a witness statement isn't evidence??
Who told you a witness statement isn't evidence??
Don't take him to court - threaten him with that option, and settle
In reply to Richard Carter:
If you have a witness who saw the accident his/her testomy is most certainly evidence, and probably very strong evidence. Are the other side suggesting perjury?
The apparant lack of action on the part of the police is strange and a bit worrying, particularly the lack of any record of your report to them on their computer, as the accident resulted in injury to you.
If you have a witness who saw the accident his/her testomy is most certainly evidence, and probably very strong evidence. Are the other side suggesting perjury?
The apparant lack of action on the part of the police is strange and a bit worrying, particularly the lack of any record of your report to them on their computer, as the accident resulted in injury to you.
In reply to Richard Carter: did the police attend the incident? did you get an incident number? did any one take any photos with dates etc? I suspect with out some or all of these then it's your word against his.
I hope not!
Good luck
I hope not!
Good luck
In reply to Trangia:
Can you commit perjury before you get into court?
> Are the other side suggesting perjury?
Can you commit perjury before you get into court?
At first the Police told me they couldn't trace the lorry, but as I drive past where it's kept everyday it didn't really stack up :-P
I just had to answer some questions about the accident that's all. What did the driver look like, etc. Obviously I couldn't answer that as I wasn't paying close enough attention :-P I just refered them to my solicitor so I guess I'll wait and see what happens.
Oh while I think on. I broke my helmet, and it's no longer made. I'm after something decent enough quality, for road biking. Grey if possible :-P Nothing too fancy - I had a quick look on my local bike shop's website and you can spend £150 on a helmet!
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
They did.
I did - policeman I spoke to the other the day couldn't find it on the computer though and the original policeman is away now for a bit.
No photos.
There was an ambulance man there too.
They did.
I did - policeman I spoke to the other the day couldn't find it on the computer though and the original policeman is away now for a bit.
No photos.
There was an ambulance man there too.
In reply to Fraser:
I think you are right, so wrong choice of word. I was alluring to the suggestion that the witness may have been bought.
I think you are right, so wrong choice of word. I was alluring to the suggestion that the witness may have been bought.
In reply to Richard Carter: if the police turned up it will be on the system - obviously you were dealing with an idiot when you called! keep badgering the police, it shouldn't matter the attending officer isn't available.
In reply to Trangia:
Don't do yourself down. You still are alluring, Trangia.
> (In reply to Fraser)
>
> I was alluring
>
> I was alluring
Don't do yourself down. You still are alluring, Trangia.
In reply to Richard Carter:
This isn't all that unusual don't get too stressed. Between the broken bike and hospital records you will be able to prove the accident happened. It would perhaps be a little difficult to prove the vehicle you had the accident with (was it hit and run, or did the driver stop to swap details?). Given the fact you have an independent witness however, your case is basically won before you even start (i'm assuming they back up your version of events).
It won't go to court because the insurers will make you an offer when they hear about the independent witness. If it does go to court you will win so don't get too worried about that.
Why on earth are you only claiming the cost of getting your bike repaired if you were injured and had to go to hospital? Are you mad?
This isn't all that unusual don't get too stressed. Between the broken bike and hospital records you will be able to prove the accident happened. It would perhaps be a little difficult to prove the vehicle you had the accident with (was it hit and run, or did the driver stop to swap details?). Given the fact you have an independent witness however, your case is basically won before you even start (i'm assuming they back up your version of events).
It won't go to court because the insurers will make you an offer when they hear about the independent witness. If it does go to court you will win so don't get too worried about that.
Why on earth are you only claiming the cost of getting your bike repaired if you were injured and had to go to hospital? Are you mad?
In reply to M0nkey:
Because we're not all chancers trying to drive insurance premiums up ;(
> Why on earth are you only claiming the cost of getting your bike repaired if you were injured and had to go to hospital? Are you mad?
Because we're not all chancers trying to drive insurance premiums up ;(
In reply to jhw:
My better half got done for driving without due care and attention because a 'witness' said she reversed into another car on a narrow lane, doing 500 quid of damage down one side of it. She denied it and there wasn't a scratch on her car, but plod were short on quota that month and did her anyway.
>
> Who told you a witness statement isn't evidence??
> Who told you a witness statement isn't evidence??
My better half got done for driving without due care and attention because a 'witness' said she reversed into another car on a narrow lane, doing 500 quid of damage down one side of it. She denied it and there wasn't a scratch on her car, but plod were short on quota that month and did her anyway.
In reply to Richard Carter:
>(as recommended I went to a solicitor)
As I see it, you have two options.
You could post on an internet forum and harvest a wide range of opinions from people who are all totally ignorant of the relevant facts and 99% of whom have no relevant experience or training.
Or you could go and ask your solicitor.
Tough call.
Having said that, of course a witness is evidence FFS. In fact, a witness in the end is the only kind of evidence there is.
jcm
>(as recommended I went to a solicitor)
> I just wondered, if it goes to court, how am I likely t fare?
As I see it, you have two options.
You could post on an internet forum and harvest a wide range of opinions from people who are all totally ignorant of the relevant facts and 99% of whom have no relevant experience or training.
Or you could go and ask your solicitor.
Tough call.
Having said that, of course a witness is evidence FFS. In fact, a witness in the end is the only kind of evidence there is.
jcm
In reply to AndyC:
My better half was parked down a narrow lane when someone reversed down it and caused £500 of damage to one side of it. A witness saw her do it and saw her drive away. When the police went to examine the woman's car she of course denied it there was no damage evident on her car but the marks had probably been polished off by her husband. The witness statement was enough to prove the fact however. DCA conviction gained. Wasn't your missus was it?
The police were interested enough to make an example of her hit and run tactics despite the raft of paperwork involved in these cases. He husband was upset but as he wasn't present at the time his opinion was not valid. The witness was.
> (In reply to jhw)
> [...]
>
> My better half got done for driving without due care and attention because a 'witness' said she reversed into another car on a narrow lane, doing 500 quid of damage down one side of it. She denied it and there wasn't a scratch on her car, but plod were short on quota that month and did her anyway.
> [...]
>
> My better half got done for driving without due care and attention because a 'witness' said she reversed into another car on a narrow lane, doing 500 quid of damage down one side of it. She denied it and there wasn't a scratch on her car, but plod were short on quota that month and did her anyway.
My better half was parked down a narrow lane when someone reversed down it and caused £500 of damage to one side of it. A witness saw her do it and saw her drive away. When the police went to examine the woman's car she of course denied it there was no damage evident on her car but the marks had probably been polished off by her husband. The witness statement was enough to prove the fact however. DCA conviction gained. Wasn't your missus was it?
The police were interested enough to make an example of her hit and run tactics despite the raft of paperwork involved in these cases. He husband was upset but as he wasn't present at the time his opinion was not valid. The witness was.
In reply to unclesamsauntibess:
Depends where your better half was parked. Not that it makes any difference but the first we knew about it was when the police knocked on the door at home, so no, we hadn't concealed any evidence, not that there was any to conceal. Given the amount of damage to the other vehicle it would have taken a lot more than T-cut to fix anyway.
So maybe you, your better half and mate were just trying it on because you didn't want to claim on your own insurance for clipping your gatepost?
Depends where your better half was parked. Not that it makes any difference but the first we knew about it was when the police knocked on the door at home, so no, we hadn't concealed any evidence, not that there was any to conceal. Given the amount of damage to the other vehicle it would have taken a lot more than T-cut to fix anyway.
So maybe you, your better half and mate were just trying it on because you didn't want to claim on your own insurance for clipping your gatepost?
In reply to AndyC: she was parked just behind your missus apparently. and a bumper can cause an awful lot of damage and sustain non itself.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
You mean - fingerprints aren't evidence! =8-0
> Having said that, of course a witness is evidence FFS. In fact, a witness in the end is the only kind of evidence there is.
You mean - fingerprints aren't evidence! =8-0
In reply to unclesamsauntibess:
Ah well... just as well the case was dropped in the end. Most annoying bit was the copper not showing up at the court because he'd gone on holiday to Ibiza.
Ah well... just as well the case was dropped in the end. Most annoying bit was the copper not showing up at the court because he'd gone on holiday to Ibiza.
In reply to Richard Carter: hi richard
Glad u r recovering.
Two thoughts spring to mind
1)bike/lorry paint traces both on bike and truck,but would forensics bother?
2) Join CTC (cycle touring club) and get them on the case,they have legal teams and are very proactive in looking after cyclists rights.
Good luck and don't give up.
PS Victim Support may be worth a shot as they helped me with police who were reluctant to proceed with a prosecution.
Glad u r recovering.
Two thoughts spring to mind
1)bike/lorry paint traces both on bike and truck,but would forensics bother?
2) Join CTC (cycle touring club) and get them on the case,they have legal teams and are very proactive in looking after cyclists rights.
Good luck and don't give up.
PS Victim Support may be worth a shot as they helped me with police who were reluctant to proceed with a prosecution.
In reply to AndyC:
Are you suggesting that coppers should cancel holidays because a traffic offence that they are involved in comes to court?
I doubt we pay them enough to make that sort of imposition!
> (In reply to unclesamsauntibess)
>
> Ah well... just as well the case was dropped in the end. Most annoying bit was the copper not showing up at the court because he'd gone on holiday to Ibiza.
>
> Ah well... just as well the case was dropped in the end. Most annoying bit was the copper not showing up at the court because he'd gone on holiday to Ibiza.
Are you suggesting that coppers should cancel holidays because a traffic offence that they are involved in comes to court?
I doubt we pay them enough to make that sort of imposition!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
If his solicitor has not provided reassurance on these matters then maybe he should pursue a 3rd option..... get another solicitor. There are bad solicitors just as there are bad teachers and plumbers.
> (In reply to Richard Carter)
>
> >(as recommended I went to a solicitor)
>
> [...]
>
> As I see it, you have two options.
>
> You could post on an internet forum and harvest a wide range of opinions from people who are all totally ignorant of the relevant facts and 99% of whom have no relevant experience or training.
>
> Or you could go and ask your solicitor.
>
>
> >(as recommended I went to a solicitor)
>
> [...]
>
> As I see it, you have two options.
>
> You could post on an internet forum and harvest a wide range of opinions from people who are all totally ignorant of the relevant facts and 99% of whom have no relevant experience or training.
>
> Or you could go and ask your solicitor.
>
If his solicitor has not provided reassurance on these matters then maybe he should pursue a 3rd option..... get another solicitor. There are bad solicitors just as there are bad teachers and plumbers.
In reply to Richard Carter:
I'd say it sounds quite a strong case.
If it is an independent witness who can ID the offending vehicle then that is very good evidence.
The ambulance attended the scene - there will be a brief report of the incident that has resulted in them being called.
The police officer has attended - and you have his details and hopefully an incident number and accident report.
Given that he is saying "it never happened" he is a bit stuffed as he cannot now say that it was your fault.
Civil claim is on the balance of probabilities rather than beyond reasonable doubt.
I'd say it sounds quite a strong case.
If it is an independent witness who can ID the offending vehicle then that is very good evidence.
The ambulance attended the scene - there will be a brief report of the incident that has resulted in them being called.
The police officer has attended - and you have his details and hopefully an incident number and accident report.
Given that he is saying "it never happened" he is a bit stuffed as he cannot now say that it was your fault.
Civil claim is on the balance of probabilities rather than beyond reasonable doubt.
In reply to dek:
Not majorly so, Hurt my chest where I hit the truck and I was generally cut up from rolling along the ground. Had a bit of a headace that day from hitting my head. Got a bit of a gash on my right leg and tore a muscle on my left leg. Worst bit was the nurse at the hostpital picking gravel out of my leg :-P
I got off pretty lightly I think.
Not majorly so, Hurt my chest where I hit the truck and I was generally cut up from rolling along the ground. Had a bit of a headace that day from hitting my head. Got a bit of a gash on my right leg and tore a muscle on my left leg. Worst bit was the nurse at the hostpital picking gravel out of my leg :-P
I got off pretty lightly I think.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
It's being though a solicitor I was just worried and wanted some quick info via UKC
It's being though a solicitor I was just worried and wanted some quick info via UKC
In reply to tlm:
Not in themselves no, as with DNA "evidence" it's the tesimony of an expert witness that is considered (and sometimes challenged) in court. certain types of evidence provided by expert witnesses e.g. fingerprints and DNA are so sound and backed by so much research they are rarely challenged.
You may remember a few years back though that a certain type of partial DNA Matching was found to be not as reliable
Fingerprint analysis has also become more accurate due to previous challenges, and now the number of points matched are much higher than previously to minimise the margin for error
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
> You mean - fingerprints aren't evidence! =8-0
> [...]
>
> You mean - fingerprints aren't evidence! =8-0
Not in themselves no, as with DNA "evidence" it's the tesimony of an expert witness that is considered (and sometimes challenged) in court. certain types of evidence provided by expert witnesses e.g. fingerprints and DNA are so sound and backed by so much research they are rarely challenged.
You may remember a few years back though that a certain type of partial DNA Matching was found to be not as reliable
Fingerprint analysis has also become more accurate due to previous challenges, and now the number of points matched are much higher than previously to minimise the margin for error
Still not managed to get any more information from the Police, the officer in involved doesn't return my calls and the other officers can't find any information about the accident. No one from the Police has spoken to the other driver involved, so I'm assuming they're not bothering :-P
I've officially given up with the Police!
I've officially given up with the Police!
In reply to lowersharpnose:
Well the driver is adament that he wasn't in the area, and since the Police aren't around to investigate (it's a haulage firm so they must have records) it's going to court.
I'm just paying to get my bike fixed as I can't be fussed waiting the 20 years it'll take to get this wrangled out :-P Annoyingly I pass the same truck 3 days a week on my way to drop the wife off at work!
Well the driver is adament that he wasn't in the area, and since the Police aren't around to investigate (it's a haulage firm so they must have records) it's going to court.
I'm just paying to get my bike fixed as I can't be fussed waiting the 20 years it'll take to get this wrangled out :-P Annoyingly I pass the same truck 3 days a week on my way to drop the wife off at work!
In reply to Richard Carter: have you actually involved CTC and Victim Support yer as suggested earlier? This is exactly what I would expect from the police in afraid and you need the experts batting for you.
In reply to David Hooper:
I felt silly using Victim Support as I'm not really a victim. Well I am, but you know what I mean. Pretty much healed now give or take.
Had forgotten about CTC, just joining that now
I felt silly using Victim Support as I'm not really a victim. Well I am, but you know what I mean. Pretty much healed now give or take.
Had forgotten about CTC, just joining that now
In reply to Richard Carter: Richard - check your emails...
In reply to Richard Carter: vs will push the police to get off their arse and do something - they are very proactive.try emailing dom Whillans of these forums as he does some work for them.dont let police apathy and laziness grind you down
In reply to Richard Carter: eyewitnesses alone don't count as proof because they are highly unreliable, look into elizabeth loftus's work on false memories and the flaws in eyewitnesses testimony.
In reply to timjones:
A dog ran in front of me last year. A big crash: broke my arm in two places and wrecked my carbon bike. It happened just before I was due to leave for a cycle traverse of the USA. The crash left me several £000's out of pocket as well as in a lot of pain. End of two month US trip too, before it even began.
I did, of course, sue. It is not a question of being a "chancer"
Fido's owner was insured - and I have just settled out of court to recover my losses - and a sum for personal injury. I get a new bike later this week - but it's been a year since I have had a decent road bike. The owner's insurance co. denied liability but I got the evidence before being taken off to A&E in an ambulance.
I did not hesitate for a second before launching legal action. If somebody breaches their duty of care and someone else gets seriously hurt, the law is clear enough. Proof is always an issue though.
My only complaint is that the owner didn't face criminal action in an 'open & shut' case. The CPS couldn't be bothered.
A dog ran in front of me last year. A big crash: broke my arm in two places and wrecked my carbon bike. It happened just before I was due to leave for a cycle traverse of the USA. The crash left me several £000's out of pocket as well as in a lot of pain. End of two month US trip too, before it even began.
I did, of course, sue. It is not a question of being a "chancer"
Fido's owner was insured - and I have just settled out of court to recover my losses - and a sum for personal injury. I get a new bike later this week - but it's been a year since I have had a decent road bike. The owner's insurance co. denied liability but I got the evidence before being taken off to A&E in an ambulance.
I did not hesitate for a second before launching legal action. If somebody breaches their duty of care and someone else gets seriously hurt, the law is clear enough. Proof is always an issue though.
My only complaint is that the owner didn't face criminal action in an 'open & shut' case. The CPS couldn't be bothered.
In reply to AlunP: Why criminal?
I have insurance for that.. but if a dog shoots out across the road I can't see how that is criminal. I'd expect to be liable.
likewise if a sheep took me out, I'd look at getting the farmer to pay for costs.. but I wouldn't expect criminal proceedings.
I have insurance for that.. but if a dog shoots out across the road I can't see how that is criminal. I'd expect to be liable.
likewise if a sheep took me out, I'd look at getting the farmer to pay for costs.. but I wouldn't expect criminal proceedings.
In reply to IainRUK:
Would be much harder with a sheep unless the farmer had a record of not repairing fences etc
Would be much harder with a sheep unless the farmer had a record of not repairing fences etc
In reply to balmybaldwin: Around here few fences are in a good state of repair..
I just think accidents happen. It'd be interesting to know if an owner ever has been prosecuted for their dog causing an accident.. could a parent then be if a child ran out..
I just think accidents happen. It'd be interesting to know if an owner ever has been prosecuted for their dog causing an accident.. could a parent then be if a child ran out..
In reply to Richard Carter:
If you have been injured then it is classified as a reportable offence. The driver has to be interviewed by the police.
If you have been injured then it is classified as a reportable offence. The driver has to be interviewed by the police.
In reply to Richard Carter:
Hope you do better with the police than my girlfriend did.
A driver pulled out of a side turning (looking the other way) and hit her from behind. The carbon fibre triathlon bike and helmet were written off and she had injuries requiring an ambulance, although she's fine now.
The police arrived and found the driver had no insurance, or licence, and was, of course, 'known to the police'.
There were several good witnesses and no doubt he was to blame.
As I understand, a year on, the driver has not been charged or paid a penny. "It's too late to charge him now. He was not in when we called at his house."
Pathetic.
However the villain is really bloody insurance !
Being a member of a Tri club she was able to claim on their insurance.
Nobody cares, or holds the police to account, and we all get to share the cost.
Insurance should be illegal.
Hope you do better with the police than my girlfriend did.
A driver pulled out of a side turning (looking the other way) and hit her from behind. The carbon fibre triathlon bike and helmet were written off and she had injuries requiring an ambulance, although she's fine now.
The police arrived and found the driver had no insurance, or licence, and was, of course, 'known to the police'.
There were several good witnesses and no doubt he was to blame.
As I understand, a year on, the driver has not been charged or paid a penny. "It's too late to charge him now. He was not in when we called at his house."
Pathetic.
However the villain is really bloody insurance !
Being a member of a Tri club she was able to claim on their insurance.
Nobody cares, or holds the police to account, and we all get to share the cost.
Insurance should be illegal.
In reply to Richard Carter:
Have you gone up the chain of command? I'd be contacting the local inspector in charge of that team at the very least, and making myself enough of a pain in the arse to get a response. It's a ballache, but you've got much more chance of getting financial recompense if the police are involved too.
It's not as if it was a minor prang with no consequences.
> Still not managed to get any more information from the Police, the officer in involved doesn't return my calls and the other officers can't find any information about the accident. No one from the Police has spoken to the other driver involved, so I'm assuming they're not bothering :-P
>
> I've officially given up with the Police!
>
> I've officially given up with the Police!
Have you gone up the chain of command? I'd be contacting the local inspector in charge of that team at the very least, and making myself enough of a pain in the arse to get a response. It's a ballache, but you've got much more chance of getting financial recompense if the police are involved too.
It's not as if it was a minor prang with no consequences.
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