UKC

In reply to cha1n:

I agree. I have climbed on it several times in recent years and until I read this thread had absolutely no idea that climbing on it was banned. It's no good saying that there is advice to this effect in the guide books, because there must be many like myself with 20 + year old guide books!

If a climbing ban is to have any effect it needs a sign next to it, preferably in French, English, Dutch and Belgium - but that probably won't stop Slovaks climbing on it!

In reply to Monk: not banned as such but Jean-Paul Lebaleurs book definitely says "fragile rock, do not climb".

Don't know about the others - will check tonight.

In reply to Trangia:

Annoying but probably true.

It'd be nice if everyone read the guidebook properly or checked bleau.info or whatever, but they clearly aren't doing if they're continuing to climb on something large and heavy that is liable to fall over on top of them.

In reply to Trangia:

Or a picture of someone climbing with a big red cross through it?

I've always known climbing on it was discouraged bit I can't for the life of me remember how I found out. The crack seemed quite obvious last time I was there.

I have the Fontainebleau Climbs guide ( http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JYE8D4X8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg ) and there is no mention of a ban or restriction at all on the Cul-De-Chien, it's the 2001 version and I wouldn't have dreamt of looking at an updated version or any other www for info.

Happen people should consider this fact before having-a-go.

In reply to Ewan_B:

Hi,
fisrt, sorry for my poor english,

I'm not surprised and we asked further times to the forest administration to install a small advertising on the boulder.
http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2012/02/lutte-contre-lerosion-lele...

If they really want to protect the boulder (and all people who have a look on it) they might to do it.

But i also think that when you go in a country you dosen't know, you have to take informations about the rulles. You can find it on our blog a lot of it about climbing attitude, but also about place to sleep, etc.

It's very difficult to us to inform each climbing communauty so, please help us, translate our message and share it.
Thanks
Greg

http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2012/03/lutte-contre-lerosion-ou.h...

http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.com/2012/02/halte-lartificialisation-...

In reply to Tony the Blade:


Beat me to it .

I've been 3 times to Font and each time climbed at Cul de Chien and never had a clue the boulder was out of bounds. But now I know, I will spread the word.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat: loads of people were climbing on it though. And so what if you climb on it, it wont snap it ways like a tonne and im only 8.5 stone! but i had to do it anyway!

In reply to Ava Adore: yeah i couldn't find that it was banned in the guide book, so i climbed on it!

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

I'm surprised people need to be told not to climb on this rock, it always seems to me that it's a miracle it's still standing just looking at it.

While on the subject, and in case people really need to be told everything, there have been children killed when they burrowed under boulders in the sand, - something that kids do quite naturally, but the boulders have been known to move and crush the imprudent sprogs. Their parents might think it worthwhile preventing them doing so... unless they have a car that is too full for the return journey, or something like that.

In reply to Chappy:

There you go people - the Cul de Chien will not snap if people climb on it. The reports that it is getting dangerous to climb on must be nefarious.

Chappy has spoken

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Me and a friend politely told 2 people who were climbing on it repeatedly that it was banned and dangerous to climb on it. Their response was.. "Yeah we know, but..." and shrugged their shoulders. Even if you do think there is minimal chance of it toppling over, why would you even risk it, and why piss off others and give us brits a bad reputation when there is so much more and better climbing nearby.

I completely agree there should be a sing nearby.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Font climbs and Font Magique do not say anything.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

In neither of the guide books we used did it state that you could not climb on this rock and there was no sign to indicate this. It would be impossible to research every boulder in the area to discover if certain ones are out of bounds.

If the local community want certain boulders avoided they need to have this clearly indicated so that all visitors are aware. Emough condemnation of a young person who was unaware of the rule. He will know in future.

In reply to iamchris:

I agree! I good bit of Kum-bai-ya to cheer everyone up

In reply to recentclimber:

Do you need a sign post to tell you not to shit in the middle of a car park or at the start of a climb? Or not to light a fire in a tinder dry forest? Or not start drilling holes to bolt on Stanage? There are no signs saying you shouldn't.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

It's one boulder in the middle of a forest where people go specifically to climb on boulders. I'd say it's not a particularly mad assumption that you can climb on a given boulder in the forest given that people can and do climb on 99.99% of them.

Also, people evidently do climb on it. Just getting VERY INDIGNANT about the fact that people should somehow realise that they shouldn't climb on it without being told doesn't change the fact that they don't.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Have you seen it? It's not exactly interesting and looks wonky enough for all but the brain dead not to leave it alone

But, above all, when you visit an area don't you think you should at least inform yourself about such things as this, chalk use, wire brushing, placing pitons are all mentioned, and prohibited on the ONF notice boards at all the car parks but many don't heed them either. It's all down to a lack of respect... I see it, I want it, I do it, and sod what anyone else thinks. Brave new world.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Oh I see, that'll be why noone climbs on it and we can all stop worrying, then?

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
In "Fontainebleau Climbs" 2001 there is no mention of a restriction on climbing on it, in fact there's a photograph of somebody showboating on it.
There's plenty of more suspect looking rock that most of us climb on regularly.

I must be brain dead as it looked solid enough on my last visit in September, so much that I thought the restriction may be a troll of sorts.

In reply to Ramblin dave:
And yes, I have seen it. We've taken the obligatory group photo in front of it. We would have taken the group photo with someone on top of it except that about two out of the six people in the group weren't 'brain dead', or rather, had happened to talk to people on a previous trip who'd known that (despite the fact that neither of our guidebooks mentioned this) you aren't allowed to climb on the thing.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Apparently they do, hence this thread! It's not the first one either so hopefully it will have an educative effect... It's only a tiny one for goodness sakes, right next to loads of better ones.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:


Well there's no answer to that! Carry on and the problem will be solved in a year or two...like the nice tree that was nearby we used to picnic under until some w*nkers burnt it down...

PS. Guide books are just that, they describe the climbing, they don't set out to instill common sense into people...maybe they should nowadays?

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
While we're being pissy about small things, can we jump on the band wagon with complaints about broken glass, used condoms, needles, litter, innapropriate fires and toilet sites?
These are all things that marr many peoples experience of the forest and are an issue at all of the parking spots I have visited since 2005.

Surly these are more pressing issues or am i getting old/missing the point?

Climb it, Love it, Protect it eh.

In reply to ozbaker: Well said. Let's moan about the used johnnys at 'cuvier instead eh?

In reply to ozbaker: "Surely these are more pressing issues or am i getting old/missing the point?"

I've not seen or heard of a boulder anywhere else in the world that looks more like an animal then this one does... IMO I think it's unique and amazing and therefore yes it is a more important thing to get worked up about then condoms in the car park that are coming from prostitutes, not people on this forum (I hope...)

In reply to iamchris: Get worked up about how this restriction is poorly advertised then. If you go to the Chien and there's a picture in your guide of somebody climbing on it, you wouldn't think there'd be a problem.
I didn't the first time I went, and so I had a go. I've been since I heard about the restriction, and left it. If there is a serious risk of it toppling there should be a sign in the carpark, by the gate or something.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:


There are signs in all the car parks saying not to use chalk... do you use it?

There's no sign at gritstone edges saying "Do not bolt" and I doubt it is mentioned in guide books, but same question, would you even think of bolting at Stanage?

Whatever now you know.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

I think you provided the solution there Bruce. Whenever there are dangerous trees about etc they get chopped down so they no longer pose a danger. So obviously you should just knock it over to save the kids. Of course then you won't be able to come on here to berate people to make yourself feel important.

In reply to permanenttrauma:

So anyone who posts information does it to feel important? You have a funny view on life... a bit like all those who appear to require notices all over the place to tell them the obvious.

Does typing posts that add absolutely nothing to the discussion but just make a silly little personal attack make you feel important? It shouldn't really, it's a bit nutty.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: Ok Bruce. Everyone should just know already that you shoudnt climb on the Chien, and we should make anybody that does climb on it feel terrible by posting photos of them on UKC and saying how naughty they are.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:

You didn't answer about the chalk

Signs don't seem to stop people... I'm not sure if there wasn't one a while ago even.

Another example is the old camping site near the Cuvier. For years people used it without respecting the rules, number of tents, rubbish, using the woods as a toilet etc, so the ONF put up a notice, in French, English and German pointing out what the consequences would be if this continued... You can guess the rest and now there is a fence round the area and no one can camp there anymore.

With internet and so on it should be possible to get the message across, for climbers to self regulate a bit, although it seems to me that some on this thread don't want to know.... this is certainly the case for chalk use.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

No. I think people need to stand up to you because you're the biggest bully going.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: No I use Pof, everywhere, ok?
I struggle to see how you expect everybody to know by "common sense" that you shouldnt climb on le tete de chien. Especially when in "Fontainebleau climbs", probably the most popular guide for a newcomer to font, shows a photograph of someone hanging from the lip of it.
Do you think it's constructive to call anybody that gets on it "brain dead"? Seeing as so many people do climb on it, I think further measures should be made to make people aware of the situation.
Maybe we should add extra graffiti to it saying "do not climb on me because of this crack " in several languages.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:

I've got an old guide book that shows people climbing in vibrams... does that mean it's ok, or anyone who thinks a bit will do the same today? Back then there were many fewer climbing there, few foreigners and the rock was rock coloured not grey and white. Now there are simply too many people but one would hope that people were also a bit more aware of environmental issues.

If you can look at this rock - of little climbing interests but absolutely unique to look at, both by its form, fantastic fragility and situation and not twig that it's probably best to leave it alone then sorry, but your brain doesn't work that well - you put a minor selfish satisfaction before anything much else. Clearly your book - English apparently was not written by someone who thought much either, or is very old as in Fontainebleau circles it has been on a leave it alone basis for many years. Anyway, the OP's post has given you all the info you need, why do you keep on contesting it?

As for using pof, I hope you use it sparingly, wrapped in a cloth as otherwise it's nearly as bad as chalk... you don't really need either, which is the COSIROC advice, simple because so many people climb there now.

In reply to permanenttrauma:

So standing up to someone implies calling them anti-semitic for no other reason than nastiness? I'd like you to show me an example of my "bullying", or insulting people gratuitously on a thread in which I didn't participate... just popping in to slag them off? You'll have a job to find an example of me doing it, but not much trouble the other way round.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: If you think that people will stop climbing on it without being notified in any way other than posting a notification on some website that I'd never seen before this thread, I think you're the one lacking a brain.

I'm sure you're not, as reading a block of text by somebody doesn't necessarily represent their personality, but you're comments on this thread make you sound like quite a nasty insulting person. People are suggesting making it more clear to climbers that le tete de chien is off limits and you're just saying that people should know instinctively or they're "brainless".

Ok, we'll not post any notifications anywhere and just hope that no more people with no brains ( such as my self apparently) get anywhere near le chien.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:

You don't read, do you? Start by reading the OP.

Then where I gave several examples of notices at Font that most of you plain ignore - like not using chalk, for example - I gave others.

Then where I said there was a plaque that disappeared.

Then I pointed out that there are no notices saying don't bolt Stanage, but none of you would dream of doing it.

Then when I, and others, pointed out how fragile it was - visibly.

You've been given plenty of reasoned arguments, you choose to ignore them, so what is there left to do except draw the obvious conclusions?

PS. The real name is the "Bilboquet", a child's game called 'cup and ball' in English. A ball with a hole is tied to a wooden spike which is used to throw it in the air and catch it as it comes down. It does look like a dog's head, but the nearby Cul de Chien is the source of confusion, but this is another, and opposite part of a dog's anatomy.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Hi,
Thanks a lot to your defense.

Lots of guidebook of Font are done by strangers and they dont ask us what is forbidden... More, French climbers when they write their topos dosen't think it's necessary to inscribe that climbing on Bilboquet is quite dangerous...

So, i put to links :
http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2012/05/faut-il-vraiment-acheter-l...

http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.com/p/les-bonnes-pratiques.html
We have edit new flyer...

In reply to Font Green News:

What we need is high profile video showing it's not ok to climb it.
Oh wait...

vimeo.com/39579869

*slow clap for Adidas*

I know that several others have mentioned as such but I'd like to point out that neither of my guidebooks mention the ban on not climbing the Bilboquet. I believe that most of the people I've visited Cul de Chien with would not do so if only they knew and many climbers just see a boulder in this area renowned for bouldering and just hop on it.

I don't feel that it is as immediately obvious that it is unstable as prior posters would make out though (certainly anyone who implies that you'd have to be braindead to climb it is being foolish) I will be discouraging others from getting on it in future out of respect for the areas rules.

(.. though I do use chalk in Font so perhaps I'm just a hypocrite).

In reply to Castleclimber:
The Baton Wicks guide has a picture of someone climbing on it. So presumably that's because Jo Montchaussé is braindead and doesn't know the area properly...

In reply to Castleclimber: Guidebooks upon issue are in effect historical documents without the ability to update like an internet thread.

This is shown quite eloquently with the new welsh slate guidebook. It was continually delayed due to a resurgence of routing. Even then, when it was launched it was immediately outdated when compared to the slate wiki.

Guidebooks are a good source but are not necessarily the right ones for when things change. After all, when looking for accommodation, you wouldn't necessarily use a guidebook to book a hotel that may no longer be in existence.

It would be a good idea for new guidebooks for font to include the advisory note about the chien but there are far better resources such as the internet for people to find out eg, UKC, UKB, Bleau.info, latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr

In reply to Ramblin dave: Southern Sandstone, West Midlands and many other guidebooks have images of people climbing on rock that now has access issues.

Should these be removed?

I agree it should be added to future guidebooks and with your assessment of the limitations of such books as the only reference point.

The problem we have here is that most people don't decide which area that they are visiting often until each morning over coffee and croissants.. In bouldering areas such as Font which have many different locations; familiarising oneself with all banned boulders in advance doesn't seem feasible. Once there -armed only with the guidebook- people can make mistakes.

I'm glad that you brought it up on here as I and many others now know and will -hopefully- spread the word. I just think that we need to afford a little understanding to the under-informed.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
No, I'm only taking issue with the idea that it's obvious at a glance that it's about to topple over and that anyone who would think of climbing on it must be "braindead".

The basic point is that if people evidently aren't aware that it's unstable, then we can rant and rave about how obviously unstable it is and how people must be braindead if they climb on it as much as we want, but it doesn't change the fact they aren't aware and they do climb on it.

Alternatively, we can accept that fact and talk constructively about how to actually change it.

And I would suggest that it is about being aware rather than not caring, because even the most selfish, chalk using, rubbish leaving climber is going to care quit a lot about the possibility of several tons of rock falling on them.

In reply to Ramblin dave: Awareness and constructive comments are the way forward. What's done is in the past and we need to move on although I disagree with the response from the chap highlighted in the photo and the braindead comment.

Having been in Font the other week it's also worth mentioning that the crack is far from obvious - I looked for it in light of this thread and while I don't doubt it exists I couldn't find it.

So, guidebooks show people climbing this boulder, the damage is fairly invisible and there is no signage (in an area where they're happy to paint on the rocks - saw multiple instances of 'bees nest' and 'snake' marked on boulders, not to mention the route markings themselves).

As access violation mistakes go it's fairly understandable.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

I've got old guide books of Fontainebleau which show people climbing in vibrams on the boulders, and if you look carefully you will find old rusty pitons on some of the bigger blocks... Times change, if you visit an area which is quite obviously very over-climbed - just look at the polish - then you should try and keep up to date with the dos and don'ts. You all do it at home so why does it seem so shocking abroad?

For the person who couldn't see the crack it's the ginormous one on the left of the base next to the blue shirt in first photo (and the third but no blue shirt) here:

http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2011/03/le-biboquet-du-cul-de-chie...

Not that hard to see really... new glasses?

In reply to Bruce Hooker: If you just hold that thought. Some people would expect the crack to look like a crack (http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/86629/86629,1202767783,... and would assume it to be around the neck of the structure rather than the rounded split shown in the photos.

Awareness by linking is a good thing. Thank you.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

From what they say on their blog and the consolidation work they are trying they are afraid of it tipping to the right (in the photo) - they did some test drilling to see if it was part of a much larger rock under the sand. Unfortunately it isn't so they put down some large blocks on the right and covered them up with sand and are now "monitoring the crack", which I took to mean to see if this wide crack was getting any wider if the block was leaning further.

Here's a link to a more recent article. The small photo shows clearly the crack that is concerning them and explains their concerns, and those of the ONF, that it is getting larger, confirming my impression from the first article.

http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2011/03/faut-il-sauver-le-bilboque...

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
Hi,
i just write a new article on this you can read here :
http://latribunelibredebleau.blogspot.fr/2012/06/bilboquet-du-cul-de-chien-...

In reply to Font Green News: Thanks for the update - my french is not sufficient to translate this to English that would do your blogspot justice.

Does anyone on UKC fancy translating this and submitting it as a news item or article for UKC or even UKB to raise awareness?

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

If you instal google toolbar it has a translation button that works fairly well. Here's what it gives for the first few paragraphs:

"The block of Bilboquet is probably one of the most famous Fontainebleau and therefore one of the most photographed. It was he who inspired the logo of LTL ² B!
We have discussed many times in this blog because this emblem of Bleau is a fragile colossus with feet of clay ...

Indeed, the image of Epinale that is the sandy beach of Ass and his famous dog-like stone lion's head would certainly lose its force if the rock came to rock! Improbable? Not so much!

Erosion is a natural phenomenon that man contributes to speed. There are a few decades, some climbers were concerned about the presence of numerous small cracks between the "ball" and the base of the ornament, but also the presence of a very large crack in the back of the base. The decision was taken not to encourage the escalation of this symbol of the Three Gables. The ways of Bilboquet are no longer marked and listed in the guidebooks."


Not too bad, "Ass" comes from "Cul" in a literal translation, and "Three Gables" is "Trois Pignons", badly translated, as pignon can be the end wall of a house, or, as in this case, "peaks" but you wouldn't want to translate names anyway.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: As it is a direct translation it doesn't convey too well. Enough to understand but I thought a linguist would be able to present it better. Thanks for looking at it this way though Bruce.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

I suppose I should offer to do it I'll see if I can, but I find that the google thingy enables me to at least understand pages in German or Spanish which otherwise I wouldn't be able to, despite learning them at school.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: this is what i came up with:

The boulder of Bibloquet is without doubt one of the most well-known of font and as such one of the most photographed. It’s also the one that inspired the logo for LTL2B (this blog). In this blog we’ve often talked about this emblem of font that is nothing but a fragile colossus with feet of clay..

In effect the image of epinale which is the beach of sand that is cul du chien and it’s well known stony alluring head of the lion certainly could give into it’s own weight if the rock were to topple. Impossible? Not quite

Erosion is a natural phenomenon which man is helping to accelerate. It’s been many 10’s of years that some climbers were worried about the existence of many small cracks between the ‘boule’ and the plinth of the curio (boulder?) but also, of the presence of a large crack at the back of the plinth. The decision was taken to not encourage the climbing of this symbol of trois pignons. The routes of the Bibloquet are therefore no longer given in the topo’s.

Despite this many climbers (including bleausards of a high standard) are continuing to climb and to photograph themselves on it providing a bad example.