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the father in law mentioned everest and the sub humans who walk past the people dying and needing help.he asked would i climb it?,like most people get asked if they know you climb.
i said no chance,because id rather climb something like Ama Dablam.
is it just me or do others think an ascent of everest these days carries no bragging rights amongst other climbers.I know the regular media loves an everest story but to me now it seemas a joke.
i said no chance,because id rather climb something like Ama Dablam.
is it just me or do others think an ascent of everest these days carries no bragging rights amongst other climbers.I know the regular media loves an everest story but to me now it seemas a joke.
In reply to mark s: New route? sans oxygen? winter? solo? record time? any combination of the preceding? If so, one is not worthy.
In reply to mark s: How much did you pay?
In reply to mark s: I'm not big on climbing, did it when I was younger then found other interests and rediscovered it a bit too late to be any good at it. But I know from other things I've done such as windsurfing how galling it is when you spend time dedicated to becoming good at something and someone turns up on the beach with £5k worth of gear and zero ability.
However, that just serves to make those in the know about any given thing feel like the elite.
It isn't pleasant to see line of people being shepherded up the mountain......... but I still think for the average person (and even the above average person for that matter) it is a bit of an accomplishment, organised or not. I seriously doubt that just anyone can walk up it and I'm sure most train quite hard for the experience.
I like sailing and want to sail an ocean or two.
When I do I will feel pretty damn chuffed with myself. Using your criteria I shouldn't because it's been done so many times by so many people. In truth I'm no pioneer....... my skills will be learned from those who went before, feeling their way showing true courage.
Won't make my accomplishment one iota less for it.
Who am I to say who can do what? I may not like it.......... but I'd never feel I owned it.
As to sherpas leading tour parties up Everest and not stopping...... not nice, but if they did stop (and speaking as a non mountaeer here who has never been near anything bigger than a big hill) would it not expose more people to danger if they did stop and lose focus on their charges in such a hostile place?
That's a question, not a statement.
However, that just serves to make those in the know about any given thing feel like the elite.
It isn't pleasant to see line of people being shepherded up the mountain......... but I still think for the average person (and even the above average person for that matter) it is a bit of an accomplishment, organised or not. I seriously doubt that just anyone can walk up it and I'm sure most train quite hard for the experience.
I like sailing and want to sail an ocean or two.
When I do I will feel pretty damn chuffed with myself. Using your criteria I shouldn't because it's been done so many times by so many people. In truth I'm no pioneer....... my skills will be learned from those who went before, feeling their way showing true courage.
Won't make my accomplishment one iota less for it.
Who am I to say who can do what? I may not like it.......... but I'd never feel I owned it.
As to sherpas leading tour parties up Everest and not stopping...... not nice, but if they did stop (and speaking as a non mountaeer here who has never been near anything bigger than a big hill) would it not expose more people to danger if they did stop and lose focus on their charges in such a hostile place?
That's a question, not a statement.
In reply to mark s:
My reaction to someone claiming to have climbed Everest?
Depends how they say it
If they are obviously a pompous, boasting oaf my reaction would be to avoid them.
Otherwise...
I reckon one of the first questions I'd ask was whether they enjoyed it.
And did they want to climb Everest, or did they want to have climbed Everest?
My understanding is that climbing Everest is very very hard work.
However, it is possible to climb Everest without exercising a single bit of judgement and the bare minimum of skill. But some people on Everest exercise a great deal of judgement and display a lot of skill.
My reaction to someone claiming to have climbed Everest?
Depends how they say it
If they are obviously a pompous, boasting oaf my reaction would be to avoid them.
Otherwise...
I reckon one of the first questions I'd ask was whether they enjoyed it.
And did they want to climb Everest, or did they want to have climbed Everest?
My understanding is that climbing Everest is very very hard work.
However, it is possible to climb Everest without exercising a single bit of judgement and the bare minimum of skill. But some people on Everest exercise a great deal of judgement and display a lot of skill.
In reply to mark s:my reaction to someone who says 'ive climbed Everest',
shrug shoulders and say big deal,,, what have you done on Tryfan Bach
shrug shoulders and say big deal,,, what have you done on Tryfan Bach
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
Above a certain height, the higher you go, the harder it is to think, the harder it is to change your mind. This is a physiological effect of the altitude, and it can be helped by acclimatisation and by the use of supplementary oxygen. The harder you are working physically, the easier it is to get tunnel visioned. The more time, effort and money you put into a project, the harder it is to admit to yourself that the project isn't going to succeed.
These factors all combine to form the "summit fever" that afflicts so many on Everest.
This summit fever gets people killed - this year I have read about one woman pressing on to the summit despite her Sherpa's repeated requests to turn round - she died.
So if some people get so messed up in the head they cannot keep themselves alive, it is unsurprising that some people get so messed up in the head that they walk past other people without stopping to help.
I reckon this happens because people have visualised getting to the top so strongly that this is what keeps them going. This repeated visualisation and determination and dreaming enables people to endure all manner of suffering and keeps them going to the top. But this also puts them into a position where they might die, or might let other people die without offering any help.
I think the answer to this problem is deliberate mental exercises and visualisations carried out many times long before getting into the "death zone." Rehearse again and again the decision points you need to look out for - turn back time, weather, your physical condition, the condition of your party, other people on the hill. Go over various what-if scenarios, and decide what you would like to look back on if these situations came up - in 5 years time would you be happy with yourself if you walked past dying people on your way up and your way down and did nothing to help them (if you passed them on your way up then you obviously had the strength to offer some help, and you won't know if that help will be enough to save someone until you try).
>
> As to sherpas leading tour parties up Everest and not stopping...... not nice, but if they did stop (and speaking as a non mountaeer here who has never been near anything bigger than a big hill) would it not expose more people to danger if they did stop and lose focus on their charges in such a hostile place?
>
> That's a question, not a statement.
> As to sherpas leading tour parties up Everest and not stopping...... not nice, but if they did stop (and speaking as a non mountaeer here who has never been near anything bigger than a big hill) would it not expose more people to danger if they did stop and lose focus on their charges in such a hostile place?
>
> That's a question, not a statement.
Above a certain height, the higher you go, the harder it is to think, the harder it is to change your mind. This is a physiological effect of the altitude, and it can be helped by acclimatisation and by the use of supplementary oxygen. The harder you are working physically, the easier it is to get tunnel visioned. The more time, effort and money you put into a project, the harder it is to admit to yourself that the project isn't going to succeed.
These factors all combine to form the "summit fever" that afflicts so many on Everest.
This summit fever gets people killed - this year I have read about one woman pressing on to the summit despite her Sherpa's repeated requests to turn round - she died.
So if some people get so messed up in the head they cannot keep themselves alive, it is unsurprising that some people get so messed up in the head that they walk past other people without stopping to help.
I reckon this happens because people have visualised getting to the top so strongly that this is what keeps them going. This repeated visualisation and determination and dreaming enables people to endure all manner of suffering and keeps them going to the top. But this also puts them into a position where they might die, or might let other people die without offering any help.
I think the answer to this problem is deliberate mental exercises and visualisations carried out many times long before getting into the "death zone." Rehearse again and again the decision points you need to look out for - turn back time, weather, your physical condition, the condition of your party, other people on the hill. Go over various what-if scenarios, and decide what you would like to look back on if these situations came up - in 5 years time would you be happy with yourself if you walked past dying people on your way up and your way down and did nothing to help them (if you passed them on your way up then you obviously had the strength to offer some help, and you won't know if that help will be enough to save someone until you try).
In reply to gd303uk: LOL, quality.
In reply to almost sane:
I assume that the "tourists" on Everest people love to denigrate give up personal responsibility to a large extent i.e. they trust the group leaders, guides and sherpas to tell them when it's safe to go on, when they should turn back etc. So they might also follow orders with regards to helping others - they allow someone else to make the decision. Therefore you *could* say it is the group leaders who ultimately decide whether people should be helped, not the individual clients. But a leader who always helps other people's clients and doesn't get his own to the top isn't going to get much repeat business...
Also the clients may not be able to help much even if they tried to, given that they are at or beyond the limits of their capabilities.
(Just pondering, not value judgements!)
> (In reply to Wonko The Sane)
> [...]
>
> Above a certain height, the higher you go, the harder it is to think, the harder it is to change your mind. This is a physiological effect of the altitude
> [...]
>
> Above a certain height, the higher you go, the harder it is to think, the harder it is to change your mind. This is a physiological effect of the altitude
I assume that the "tourists" on Everest people love to denigrate give up personal responsibility to a large extent i.e. they trust the group leaders, guides and sherpas to tell them when it's safe to go on, when they should turn back etc. So they might also follow orders with regards to helping others - they allow someone else to make the decision. Therefore you *could* say it is the group leaders who ultimately decide whether people should be helped, not the individual clients. But a leader who always helps other people's clients and doesn't get his own to the top isn't going to get much repeat business...
Also the clients may not be able to help much even if they tried to, given that they are at or beyond the limits of their capabilities.
(Just pondering, not value judgements!)
In reply to Steve John B:
Sadly there are cases of people who have died because the ignored the instructions from their guides, Sherpas and group leaders to turn back.
It does seem that when some people leave the final camp for the summit it is very difficult to get them to deviate from their plan to get to the top.
That is why I suggest a constant, repeated message into your brain to tell you to keep aware of what is going on. You can't blame this all on the guides - there are plenty of people who ignore what their guides/Sherpas/leaders say when it goes against what they want to do now.
I have had that experience myself - clients continuing to behave in ways that put themselves and others at risk and not changing their ways despite what is said to them. In that case, what do you do? My solutions have vaired according to circumstance, but sometimes all you can do is try to find a way that causes less damage than might otherwise be the case
>
> I assume that the "tourists" on Everest people love to denigrate give up personal responsibility to a large extent i.e. they trust the group leaders, guides and sherpas to tell them when it's safe to go on, when they should turn back etc. So they might also follow orders with regards to helping others - they allow someone else to make the decision.
>
> I assume that the "tourists" on Everest people love to denigrate give up personal responsibility to a large extent i.e. they trust the group leaders, guides and sherpas to tell them when it's safe to go on, when they should turn back etc. So they might also follow orders with regards to helping others - they allow someone else to make the decision.
>
Sadly there are cases of people who have died because the ignored the instructions from their guides, Sherpas and group leaders to turn back.
It does seem that when some people leave the final camp for the summit it is very difficult to get them to deviate from their plan to get to the top.
That is why I suggest a constant, repeated message into your brain to tell you to keep aware of what is going on. You can't blame this all on the guides - there are plenty of people who ignore what their guides/Sherpas/leaders say when it goes against what they want to do now.
I have had that experience myself - clients continuing to behave in ways that put themselves and others at risk and not changing their ways despite what is said to them. In that case, what do you do? My solutions have vaired according to circumstance, but sometimes all you can do is try to find a way that causes less damage than might otherwise be the case
In reply to gd303uk:
One of my cousins, who admittedly, unlike Num Num is a bit of an idiot, once found himself at the top of Everest after paying twenty grand for what he thought was double glazing for his flat.
One of my cousins, who admittedly, unlike Num Num is a bit of an idiot, once found himself at the top of Everest after paying twenty grand for what he thought was double glazing for his flat.
In reply to Wonko The Sane: I would say that there is more risk in carrying on higher than deciding to go back down even with an injured climber.
Say to a climber "I've climbed K2" and people take notice
Say to a climber "I've climbed K2" and people take notice
In reply to birdie num num:
Classic num num
> (In reply to gd303uk)
> One of my cousins, who admittedly, unlike Num Num is a bit of an idiot, once found himself at the top of Everest after paying twenty grand for what he thought was double glazing for his flat.
> One of my cousins, who admittedly, unlike Num Num is a bit of an idiot, once found himself at the top of Everest after paying twenty grand for what he thought was double glazing for his flat.
Classic num num
In reply to mark s: This reminds me to a certain extent of something somebody said to me when I was taking part in a sponsored walk over the Carneddau.
I mentioned that the Carneddau were inclined to be quieter than Snowdon and were more remote. "Ah" he said, "Mount Snowdon, now you're talking, that's a REAL mountain"
I mentioned that the Carneddau were inclined to be quieter than Snowdon and were more remote. "Ah" he said, "Mount Snowdon, now you're talking, that's a REAL mountain"
In reply to mark s: Wow, these posts are becoming daily! Everest is easy and people should be hung for leaving other people to die...
Just out of interest, how many people on here have actually climbed Everest? How many have attempted? How many that have done it actually thought "You know what, this is easy. I should have climbed K2."?
Why dont all of the top mountaineers on here that proclaim "it's just a walk" go and camp at the top campsite and wait for people to go man-down, then go and grab the dying people when they are spotted. Shouldn't be hard. It's only Everest.
Just out of interest, how many people on here have actually climbed Everest? How many have attempted? How many that have done it actually thought "You know what, this is easy. I should have climbed K2."?
Why dont all of the top mountaineers on here that proclaim "it's just a walk" go and camp at the top campsite and wait for people to go man-down, then go and grab the dying people when they are spotted. Shouldn't be hard. It's only Everest.
In reply to Richiehill:
Fortunately there are some people who are willing help others in distress, turning around 300m from the summit to help an unconscious climber is admirable (but also expected I feel) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18204231 . Unfortunately there are many others who aren't. I think that it basically comes down to money - if it wasn't such a large financial investment, more people would be willing to stop and help others. Its very sad.
Fortunately there are some people who are willing help others in distress, turning around 300m from the summit to help an unconscious climber is admirable (but also expected I feel) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18204231 . Unfortunately there are many others who aren't. I think that it basically comes down to money - if it wasn't such a large financial investment, more people would be willing to stop and help others. Its very sad.
In reply to Poco Loco: I agree, it's never good leaving someone behind that is in need of aid.
I just disagree that it would be "that" easy to just stop and help people. Unless people have actually done it and found it easy then they have no real right proclaming that it is easy or that it is "just a walk".
I think that for a lot of people who do it, especially seen as they aren't "real mountaineers" like a lot of people on here are, they are using every ounce of their strength and energy just to get themselves up and down alive - let alone helping others. If they have just paid to go up then more than likely, they wouldn't even know what to do to help these people.
If the money is going to continue to flood into this country because of this - and long may it continue - then perhaps the government over there could put more of the money into a permanent mountain rescue team that take it in turns to live at the most advanced camp.
Or all of the "real mountaineers" on here can put their money where their mouths are and do it voluntarily, just to prove how "easy" it really is...
I just disagree that it would be "that" easy to just stop and help people. Unless people have actually done it and found it easy then they have no real right proclaming that it is easy or that it is "just a walk".
I think that for a lot of people who do it, especially seen as they aren't "real mountaineers" like a lot of people on here are, they are using every ounce of their strength and energy just to get themselves up and down alive - let alone helping others. If they have just paid to go up then more than likely, they wouldn't even know what to do to help these people.
If the money is going to continue to flood into this country because of this - and long may it continue - then perhaps the government over there could put more of the money into a permanent mountain rescue team that take it in turns to live at the most advanced camp.
Or all of the "real mountaineers" on here can put their money where their mouths are and do it voluntarily, just to prove how "easy" it really is...
In reply to mark s:
"I've climbed Everest."
"That's nice for you"
"You don't seem very impressed."
"South Col route?"
"Yes"
"Did you use oxygen?"
"Yes."
"Guides? Porters? Pre-stocked camps?"
"Yes"
"That's about as impressive as doing the Tour de France on a motorbike."
"I've climbed Everest."
"That's nice for you"
"You don't seem very impressed."
"South Col route?"
"Yes"
"Did you use oxygen?"
"Yes."
"Guides? Porters? Pre-stocked camps?"
"Yes"
"That's about as impressive as doing the Tour de France on a motorbike."
In reply to mark s:
I shudder to think how you lot would react to someone who'd spent their holiday on the beach in Tenerife...
I shudder to think how you lot would react to someone who'd spent their holiday on the beach in Tenerife...
In reply to Ramblin dave: And why is that a less valid way to spend a holiday than spending thousands on being dragged up Everest?
In reply to Ramblin dave: I would not acknowledge they exist, how provincial, Tenerife urggh,
Talacre beach now we are talking ,,,
Talacre beach now we are talking ,,,
In reply to mark s: I've never (AFAIK) met someone who's actually climbed Everest, but have had cause to ask "Base Camp or the summit?" - I've met a fair few people who've trekked to Base Camp on their gap year, who will leave it ambiguous in order to try and impress (the giveaway being the namedrop very early on) - resulting conversation being:
Me "I do a bit of climbing/mountaineering"
Them "So what have you climbed?"
Me "This and that [list a few alpine peaks or other things that a non-climber might have heard of]"
Them "Oh, that's nice - I've been on Everest" <doesn't mention anything else>
Me "Base Camp or the summit?"
Them <almost inaudibly> "Well, Base Camp is most of the way up, isn't it?"
They'll normally walk away at that point!
Me "I do a bit of climbing/mountaineering"
Them "So what have you climbed?"
Me "This and that [list a few alpine peaks or other things that a non-climber might have heard of]"
Them "Oh, that's nice - I've been on Everest" <doesn't mention anything else>
Me "Base Camp or the summit?"
Them <almost inaudibly> "Well, Base Camp is most of the way up, isn't it?"
They'll normally walk away at that point!
In reply to David Ponting:
http://www.denbighshirefreepress.co.uk/news/96272/just-a-hobby-but-he-climb...
> (In reply to mark s) I've never (AFAIK) met someone who's actually climbed Everest, but have had cause to ask "Base Camp or the summit?" - ....
> Them "Oh, that's nice - I've been on Everest" <doesn't mention anything
> Me "Base Camp or the summit?"
> Them <almost inaudibly> "Well, Base Camp is most of the way up, isn't it?"
>
> They'll normally walk away at that point!
After I did EBC in 2010 the local rag got on to it and interviewed me. I honestly emphasised that I did not climb Everest. This is what appeared:> Them "Oh, that's nice - I've been on Everest" <doesn't mention anything
> Me "Base Camp or the summit?"
> Them <almost inaudibly> "Well, Base Camp is most of the way up, isn't it?"
>
> They'll normally walk away at that point!
http://www.denbighshirefreepress.co.uk/news/96272/just-a-hobby-but-he-climb...
In reply to tim carruthers: Take it you've done the South Col route then?
In reply to David Ponting:
I once walked up to Snowdon base camp and had a plate of fried squid and some chips at a cafe there.
I once walked up to Snowdon base camp and had a plate of fried squid and some chips at a cafe there.
In reply to Al Evans: It's not. I'm just slightly confused by the sense that unless you're spending your holidays at the cutting edge of alpinism, it's somehow not worthwhile. If people want to spend a large amount of money and put in a reasonable amount of effort to get somewhere cool and exciting then fair play to them as far as I'm concerned...
In reply to mark s:
I know very little about Everest, but have some friends who have been on mountaians around the area, and asked them the same question about helping others.
Their view was that in perfect weather conditions they would probably think about helping, and might even do it, but in anything other than perfect weather the most likely result of a party of two stopping to help a party of two is four deaths rather than two.
Don't know how true this is, perhaps people who have been there can say?
I know very little about Everest, but have some friends who have been on mountaians around the area, and asked them the same question about helping others.
Their view was that in perfect weather conditions they would probably think about helping, and might even do it, but in anything other than perfect weather the most likely result of a party of two stopping to help a party of two is four deaths rather than two.
Don't know how true this is, perhaps people who have been there can say?
In reply to birdie num num:
Superb!
> One of my cousins, who admittedly, unlike Num Num is a bit of an idiot, once found himself at the top of Everest after paying twenty grand for what he thought was double glazing for his flat.
Superb!
In reply to Ramblin dave:
...with no thought for the shameless yearly defilement of the mountain itself caused by it becoming the sport of the wealthy?
...with no thought for the shameless yearly defilement of the mountain itself caused by it becoming the sport of the wealthy?
In reply to tim carruthers: I think that you've pretty much just described climbing in general. We spend A LOT of money on gear, go to the same rock outcrops on a weekley or even daily basis, read books on which routes are the best (i.e. most used) then stick bits of metal into the same slots. I bet you don't have a problem with that kind of shameless defilement.
In reply to mark s: I think there are people who have climbed many 8000m peaks and similar before they attempt Everest. These are the people who know and recognise problems. Then there are the people who haven't. These are the people who get in to trouble.
In the main, a fairly sweeping generalisation....
In the main, a fairly sweeping generalisation....
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Of the 10 people who died on the hill this season, 3 were Sherpas: one died from alcohol related problems, one fell in the Khumbu Icefall, the third had a stroke.
Of the 7 climbers, one had a stroke and died back home and it seems 3 deaths were caused in part by spending too long on the mountain in the queues.
More details here http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/category/everest-2012/
> (In reply to mark s) I think there are people who have climbed many 8000m peaks and similar before they attempt Everest. These are the people who know and recognise problems. Then there are the people who haven't. These are the people who get in to trouble.
>
> In the main, a fairly sweeping generalisation....
>
> In the main, a fairly sweeping generalisation....
Of the 10 people who died on the hill this season, 3 were Sherpas: one died from alcohol related problems, one fell in the Khumbu Icefall, the third had a stroke.
Of the 7 climbers, one had a stroke and died back home and it seems 3 deaths were caused in part by spending too long on the mountain in the queues.
More details here http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/category/everest-2012/
In reply to mark s:
I know somebody who has climbed Everest and I have the utmost respect for his abilities as a climber. Shame I have to live next door to his sister.
You fancy belittling this chaps accomplishments by saying Everest is just a rich person's rope ladder?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4327
I know somebody who has climbed Everest and I have the utmost respect for his abilities as a climber. Shame I have to live next door to his sister.
You fancy belittling this chaps accomplishments by saying Everest is just a rich person's rope ladder?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4327
In reply to mark s: If you're a mountaineer, surely, at some stage in your carrier it's only natural to want to climb the HIGHEST mountain in the world? .. I honestly think there's way too much snobbery surrounding Mt. Everest.
Sure, I totally agree, if you're not a mountaineer, and you've simply paid your way up Everest so that you can tell people about it, then I'd shrug my shoulders and wander off.. But if climbing things is your lifelong passion(as it is for so many Everest summiteers), which in turn culminates in climbing the highest peak on Earth, then fair-bloody-play, I'd be impressed!
Sure, I totally agree, if you're not a mountaineer, and you've simply paid your way up Everest so that you can tell people about it, then I'd shrug my shoulders and wander off.. But if climbing things is your lifelong passion(as it is for so many Everest summiteers), which in turn culminates in climbing the highest peak on Earth, then fair-bloody-play, I'd be impressed!
In reply to mark s:
Dragged by sherpas or not, you don't get to the summit of Everest without being both fit and determined.
It's not for me but it does make me chuckle when climbers whose main achievements are on 10 m grit stone edges state so confidently that any old fud could climb Everest.
Dragged by sherpas or not, you don't get to the summit of Everest without being both fit and determined.
It's not for me but it does make me chuckle when climbers whose main achievements are on 10 m grit stone edges state so confidently that any old fud could climb Everest.
In reply to Gav M:
Agreed. People who go up on commercial expeditions still have to put in the effort, and from what I've read that requires a lot of fitness and determination.
So I would say "Well done"
> (In reply to mark s)
>
> Dragged by sherpas or not, you don't get to the summit of Everest without being both fit and determined.
>
> It's not for me but it does make me chuckle when climbers whose main achievements are on 10 m grit stone edges state so confidently that any old fud could climb Everest.
>
> Dragged by sherpas or not, you don't get to the summit of Everest without being both fit and determined.
>
> It's not for me but it does make me chuckle when climbers whose main achievements are on 10 m grit stone edges state so confidently that any old fud could climb Everest.
Agreed. People who go up on commercial expeditions still have to put in the effort, and from what I've read that requires a lot of fitness and determination.
So I would say "Well done"
From many accounts a common reaction is "what's next?"
In reply to mark s:
I'd either take the piss if it was someone I knew (Well someone I know has done it and the seven summits- 7 times more fun!)
Or say well done.
I'd either take the piss if it was someone I knew (Well someone I know has done it and the seven summits- 7 times more fun!)
Or say well done.
In reply to tim carruthers:
You'd say that to Chris bonington...?
Gregor
> (In reply to mark s)
> "I've climbed Everest."
> "That's nice for you"
> "You don't seem very impressed."
> "South Col route?"
> "Yes"
> "Did you use oxygen?"
> "Yes."
> "Guides? Porters? Pre-stocked camps?"
> "Yes"
> "That's about as impressive as doing the Tour de France on a motorbike."
> "I've climbed Everest."
> "That's nice for you"
> "You don't seem very impressed."
> "South Col route?"
> "Yes"
> "Did you use oxygen?"
> "Yes."
> "Guides? Porters? Pre-stocked camps?"
> "Yes"
> "That's about as impressive as doing the Tour de France on a motorbike."
You'd say that to Chris bonington...?
Gregor
In reply to almost sane:
That's an interesting blog and together with the documentaries I've seen adds to my view that the place is being managed like a large National Park rather than being the wilderness that a lot of us seek out when climbing.
It's good to see it's being managed. While this can make it look a bit like a theme park/tourist attraction, it's probably just like the image Snowdon has in the respect that "There is a railway up it so it can't be that hard."
> (In reply to DancingOnRock)
> [...]
>
> Of the 10 people who died on the hill this season, 3 were Sherpas: one died from alcohol related problems, one fell in the Khumbu Icefall, the third had a stroke.
>
> Of the 7 climbers, one had a stroke and died back home and it seems 3 deaths were caused in part by spending too long on the mountain in the queues.
>
> More details here http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/category/everest-2012/
> [...]
>
> Of the 10 people who died on the hill this season, 3 were Sherpas: one died from alcohol related problems, one fell in the Khumbu Icefall, the third had a stroke.
>
> Of the 7 climbers, one had a stroke and died back home and it seems 3 deaths were caused in part by spending too long on the mountain in the queues.
>
> More details here http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/category/everest-2012/
That's an interesting blog and together with the documentaries I've seen adds to my view that the place is being managed like a large National Park rather than being the wilderness that a lot of us seek out when climbing.
It's good to see it's being managed. While this can make it look a bit like a theme park/tourist attraction, it's probably just like the image Snowdon has in the respect that "There is a railway up it so it can't be that hard."
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Actually, I suspect that most people only want the illusion of wilderness. Most of us don't go outside well documented guidebook itiniries.
Actually, I suspect that most people only want the illusion of wilderness. Most of us don't go outside well documented guidebook itiniries.
In reply to GrahamD: I guess so but I think, using North Wales as an example, more of us would do our hardest to avoid Snowdon and in particularly, given a choice, not do it from Llamberis.
In reply to Max Clarke:
I think I stopped wanting to climb Everest when I was about 12 or 13. When I realised there was more to mountaineering than height. The mountains and routes that have inspired me since then have been thinks like the Dru, 38 Route on the Eiger, Cerro Torre, Shivling and Changabang.
Am I not a mountaineer for not wanting to climb Everest?
> (In reply to mark s) If you're a mountaineer, surely, at some stage in your carrier it's only natural to want to climb the HIGHEST mountain in the world?
I think I stopped wanting to climb Everest when I was about 12 or 13. When I realised there was more to mountaineering than height. The mountains and routes that have inspired me since then have been thinks like the Dru, 38 Route on the Eiger, Cerro Torre, Shivling and Changabang.
Am I not a mountaineer for not wanting to climb Everest?
In reply to The New NickB:
Not that I have climbed any of those, but I would very much like to, I am aware that it is talent and commitment that is holding me back.
Not that I have climbed any of those, but I would very much like to, I am aware that it is talent and commitment that is holding me back.
In reply to mark s: Yeah? But what have you ever done on Moel Fammau?
In reply to mark s:
You just assume they're a knob until further notice, don't you?
Unless they turn out to actually be, y'know, Kevin Thaw or Stephen Venables or someone.
jcm
You just assume they're a knob until further notice, don't you?
Unless they turn out to actually be, y'know, Kevin Thaw or Stephen Venables or someone.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Isn't that just your default position on anyone ?
> You just assume they're a knob until further notice, don't you?
Isn't that just your default position on anyone ?
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