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Hello
I've just bought everything needed for basejumping for personal use.
However, myself and other staff are taking 20 Year 6 children big wall climbing next week and I was considering bringing the base jumping kit for for staff. I'd also like to give the children a go, and wondered if others have done this with this age range (year 6 = 10+).
Anyone got a risk assessment/ advice?
My concern is worst case scenario a child plummets to their death.
Should I just keep for staff?
Advice appreciated...
I've just bought everything needed for basejumping for personal use.
However, myself and other staff are taking 20 Year 6 children big wall climbing next week and I was considering bringing the base jumping kit for for staff. I'd also like to give the children a go, and wondered if others have done this with this age range (year 6 = 10+).
Anyone got a risk assessment/ advice?
My concern is worst case scenario a child plummets to their death.
Should I just keep for staff?
Advice appreciated...
In reply to Robert Durran: From what I remember watching TV, children bounce. So you should be ok.
In reply to Robert Durran: One kid might be too light for the chute, best pack 3 or 4 underneath that thing just to be safe.
In reply to Robert Durran: The two main risks are:
(1) proximity to cliff edge
(2) parachute not deploying.
Control measures:
Catapult them out far enough to miss the cliff walls and don't give them a chute, thereby eliminating the risk of it not opening.
(1) proximity to cliff edge
(2) parachute not deploying.
Control measures:
Catapult them out far enough to miss the cliff walls and don't give them a chute, thereby eliminating the risk of it not opening.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
http://www.flash-game.net/game/365/cat-a-pult.html
This should give you an idea of the technique
> (In reply to Robert Durran) The two main risks are:
> (1) proximity to cliff edge
> (2) parachute not deploying.
>
> Control measures:
> Catapult them out far enough to miss the cliff walls and don't give them a chute, thereby eliminating the risk of it not opening.
> (1) proximity to cliff edge
> (2) parachute not deploying.
>
> Control measures:
> Catapult them out far enough to miss the cliff walls and don't give them a chute, thereby eliminating the risk of it not opening.
http://www.flash-game.net/game/365/cat-a-pult.html
This should give you an idea of the technique
In reply to tspoon1981:
Hahaha. Thank goodness they only give points for firing the catapult at the cats and not for splattering them on the wall... for a moment I had ethical worries!
Hahaha. Thank goodness they only give points for firing the catapult at the cats and not for splattering them on the wall... for a moment I had ethical worries!
In reply to Robert Durran: F*ck people, what are you thinking?????!!!! With an opportunity like this, why on earth wouldnt you fit them each with a squirrel suit and watch them safely 'glide' back to earth.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I don't see the problem as long as you complete the paperwork correctly and get a criminal records check.
As you say the main risk is someone falling to their death, so just write that on the risk assessment form and go for it.
I don't see the problem as long as you complete the paperwork correctly and get a criminal records check.
As you say the main risk is someone falling to their death, so just write that on the risk assessment form and go for it.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Safest way is to jump with the other staff and students strapped to your chest, in the same was as tandem skydives. Obviously only one at a time, although you might be able to manage 2 smaller kids at a time, if they promise not to wriggle.
You'll need 18,600 cardboard boxes piled up for contingency, if the 'chute doesn't deploy.
At least the parents won't be able to sue you if there's an accident.
Safest way is to jump with the other staff and students strapped to your chest, in the same was as tandem skydives. Obviously only one at a time, although you might be able to manage 2 smaller kids at a time, if they promise not to wriggle.
You'll need 18,600 cardboard boxes piled up for contingency, if the 'chute doesn't deploy.
At least the parents won't be able to sue you if there's an accident.
In reply to Robert Durran:
You would be amazed how good they are, they have no fear, so they learn really fast. It is like teaching them skiing.
You would be amazed how good they are, they have no fear, so they learn really fast. It is like teaching them skiing.
In reply to Robert Durran:
One factor that you might not have considered: if you are going to get the staff to base jump after having completed the big wall climb, who is going to supervise the 20 x Yr 6 pupils who will have to walk back down the descent path on their own?
One factor that you might not have considered: if you are going to get the staff to base jump after having completed the big wall climb, who is going to supervise the 20 x Yr 6 pupils who will have to walk back down the descent path on their own?
In reply to John Foster:
he did say enough kit for personal use. So going to be a lot of carrying it back up before they all get to the bottom.
To be honest i am not sure he has completely thought it through.
> One factor that you might not have considered: if you are going to get the staff to base jump after having completed the big wall climb, who is going to supervise the 20 x Yr 6 pupils who will have to walk back down the descent path on their own?
he did say enough kit for personal use. So going to be a lot of carrying it back up before they all get to the bottom.
To be honest i am not sure he has completely thought it through.
In reply to Robert Durran: As long as they weigh under 5 stone it's scientifically proven to be safe to let them use umbrellas as a canopy. You could kit the whole class out with cutting edge rigs for £20 from thy local poundland.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I can't see any need for a risk assessment, definately overkill mate - you should be fine
I can't see any need for a risk assessment, definately overkill mate - you should be fine
In reply to fozmeister:
nah the risk assessment is needed in order to get someone elses signature and hence put them in the firing line.
just in case.
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> I can't see any need for a risk assessment, definately overkill mate - you should be fine
> I can't see any need for a risk assessment, definately overkill mate - you should be fine
nah the risk assessment is needed in order to get someone elses signature and hence put them in the firing line.
just in case.
In reply to Robert Durran:
One thing I'd do is contact the local Mountain Rescue commander and try to see what he recommends for these type of outings.
I'd reassure him that you are all well prepared, at least with gaberdines and packed lunches and perhaps ask him to keep his full team "Standing By" for the duration of your stay ....
One thing I'd do is contact the local Mountain Rescue commander and try to see what he recommends for these type of outings.
I'd reassure him that you are all well prepared, at least with gaberdines and packed lunches and perhaps ask him to keep his full team "Standing By" for the duration of your stay ....
In reply to Robert Durran:
Can I suggest a robust belief in some sort of afterlife for all participants?
This would certainly mitigate your worst case scenario of death as it would not be a permanent affliction.
Can I suggest a robust belief in some sort of afterlife for all participants?
This would certainly mitigate your worst case scenario of death as it would not be a permanent affliction.
In reply to Robert Durran:
ahh I've got one for 18 year 7 children. They have a bit more weight about them and there many studies out proving that they bounce considerably better than year 6 children
Therefore I'm not sure it is possible to use my risk assessment.
ahh I've got one for 18 year 7 children. They have a bit more weight about them and there many studies out proving that they bounce considerably better than year 6 children
Therefore I'm not sure it is possible to use my risk assessment.
In reply to Robert Durran:
You could put them in one of those big balls that people walk around so they would bounce. Imagine the delight of a setting sun over Yosemite and hundreds of bouncing balls full of somersaulting kids glinting in the last rays
You could put them in one of those big balls that people walk around so they would bounce. Imagine the delight of a setting sun over Yosemite and hundreds of bouncing balls full of somersaulting kids glinting in the last rays
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I'd pay to watch that
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> You could put them in one of those big balls that people walk around so they would bounce. Imagine the delight of a setting sun over Yosemite and hundreds of bouncing balls full of somersaulting kids glinting in the last rays
> You could put them in one of those big balls that people walk around so they would bounce. Imagine the delight of a setting sun over Yosemite and hundreds of bouncing balls full of somersaulting kids glinting in the last rays
I'd pay to watch that
In reply to Robert Durran: Hmmmn, I'm going to go against the flow here, I think this is a bad idea. Due to the limited stature of children I don't think the rig will fit very well. If you were to cause them a nip or burn due to ill fitting webbing you could get into a lot of trouble.
In reply to Robert Durran:
yeah go for it,you may lose one or two kids at the most.could still be a good day out though.
yeah go for it,you may lose one or two kids at the most.could still be a good day out though.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I can't believe I'm reading this! Big wall climbing is way beyond the ability of primary school children and to even think of this is thoroughly IRRESPONSIBLE!
If it wasn't for the fact that this is a well repected Forum subscribed to by responsible adults I would have thought this was a troll.
Base jumping is as very dangerous pass time and even adults should think most carefully before doing it. Untrained children in the age range 6-10 would be at EXTREME RISK.
If you are going to teach children to base jump they need to be introduced to it gradually and from much smaller heights more suitable to their tender age. The best age to start is for the aged 2 and unders. Pushing them off the top of a 6' high step ladder is an ideal start. Aged 3 to 6 can progress to first floor balconies and after a few jumps the older children could be taken up to the second floor. From 6 onwards is a gradual process to get them used to the height eventually up to 3rd and 4th floors.
Only after such intensive introduction should you consider taking them onto big walls.
I can't believe I'm reading this! Big wall climbing is way beyond the ability of primary school children and to even think of this is thoroughly IRRESPONSIBLE!
If it wasn't for the fact that this is a well repected Forum subscribed to by responsible adults I would have thought this was a troll.
Base jumping is as very dangerous pass time and even adults should think most carefully before doing it. Untrained children in the age range 6-10 would be at EXTREME RISK.
If you are going to teach children to base jump they need to be introduced to it gradually and from much smaller heights more suitable to their tender age. The best age to start is for the aged 2 and unders. Pushing them off the top of a 6' high step ladder is an ideal start. Aged 3 to 6 can progress to first floor balconies and after a few jumps the older children could be taken up to the second floor. From 6 onwards is a gradual process to get them used to the height eventually up to 3rd and 4th floors.
Only after such intensive introduction should you consider taking them onto big walls.
In reply to LastBoyScout: but then the staff are left open to accusations of inappropriate touching.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Thankyou very much everyone for all the useful feedback.
On reflection, I have decided that the combination of big wall climbing and base jumping is not justifiable with a large group of primary school kids - the obvious need to thoroughly check all the buckles on their harnesses just leaves me far too open to accusations of inappropriate touching.
Instead I have decided to take them to do some of that free climbing without any ropes or anything, just like that French woman with skimpy shorts was doing in that video in Africa. If anyone plummets to their death, it will be their own fault for letting go of the rock (the briefing I shall give them will make quite clear that they should not do this), and there can be no possibility of the tragedy being blamed on faulty or wrongly used equipment or of me ending up on the sex offenders register. Sorted!
Thankyou very much everyone for all the useful feedback.
On reflection, I have decided that the combination of big wall climbing and base jumping is not justifiable with a large group of primary school kids - the obvious need to thoroughly check all the buckles on their harnesses just leaves me far too open to accusations of inappropriate touching.
Instead I have decided to take them to do some of that free climbing without any ropes or anything, just like that French woman with skimpy shorts was doing in that video in Africa. If anyone plummets to their death, it will be their own fault for letting go of the rock (the briefing I shall give them will make quite clear that they should not do this), and there can be no possibility of the tragedy being blamed on faulty or wrongly used equipment or of me ending up on the sex offenders register. Sorted!
In reply to Robert Durran:
perhaps you could go for something in the middle and try these airbag helmets.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/22/airbag-bike-hel...
that way, with the advice of telling them to land headfirst you have given them two chances to save themselves.
perhaps you could go for something in the middle and try these airbag helmets.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/22/airbag-bike-hel...
that way, with the advice of telling them to land headfirst you have given them two chances to save themselves.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Linky to the skimpies or its a lie.
I think you are also yakking up the wrong tree. All kiddies like swimming pools and splashing - why not take them free diving for the weekend.
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Thankyou very much everyone for all the useful feedback.
>
> On reflection, I have decided that the combination of big wall climbing and base jumping is not justifiable with a large group of primary school kids - the obvious need to thoroughly check all the buckles on their harnesses just leaves me far too open to accusations of inappropriate touching.
>
> Instead I have decided to take them to do some of that free climbing without any ropes or anything, just like that French woman with skimpy shorts was doing in that video in Africa. If anyone plummets to their death, it will be their own fault for letting go of the rock (the briefing I shall give them will make quite clear that they should not do this), and there can be no possibility of the tragedy being blamed on faulty or wrongly used equipment or of me ending up on the sex offenders register. Sorted!
>
> Thankyou very much everyone for all the useful feedback.
>
> On reflection, I have decided that the combination of big wall climbing and base jumping is not justifiable with a large group of primary school kids - the obvious need to thoroughly check all the buckles on their harnesses just leaves me far too open to accusations of inappropriate touching.
>
> Instead I have decided to take them to do some of that free climbing without any ropes or anything, just like that French woman with skimpy shorts was doing in that video in Africa. If anyone plummets to their death, it will be their own fault for letting go of the rock (the briefing I shall give them will make quite clear that they should not do this), and there can be no possibility of the tragedy being blamed on faulty or wrongly used equipment or of me ending up on the sex offenders register. Sorted!
Linky to the skimpies or its a lie.
I think you are also yakking up the wrong tree. All kiddies like swimming pools and splashing - why not take them free diving for the weekend.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
youtube.com/watch?v=N70DLM8Az_8&
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Linky to the skimpies or its a lie.
youtube.com/watch?v=N70DLM8Az_8&
In reply to Robert Durran:
As someone who was once sent on secondment to a guerilla training camp in the Congo a good tip for rainy days is teaching them knife fighting and Russian roulette. Kids love surprises and guessing which chamber holds the real bullet will have them squealing with delight.
As someone who was once sent on secondment to a guerilla training camp in the Congo a good tip for rainy days is teaching them knife fighting and Russian roulette. Kids love surprises and guessing which chamber holds the real bullet will have them squealing with delight.
In reply to Robert Durran: it should be fine. if any of them dont like the idea of it, remind them. Pain is temporary, glory is forever!
In reply to Robert Durran: I think you should be fine as long as they are all wearing hi viz jackets. Just like the school trip I saw yesterday on oxford st.
In reply to marsbar: I've seen this too! Isn't it a bit of a health and safety risk? Makes life much easier for paedophiles.
In reply to Robert Durran: Why not avoid all possible parental blame and backlash and just start a game of Battle Royale, that way you encourage certain levels of team spirit, healthy competition, a bit of outdoorsy activity and you can safely sit and await the winner with a cup of cocoa and a biscuit.
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