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Busy reading a book and it reckons there are two trains of thought here. Some people put thoughts of death to the back of their minds and block it out of their lives. Then they end up on their death beds fretting about all the things they wanted to do but haven’t. Then there are the people who live with death on their shoulders always aware that their time here will someday end and make a conscious effort to live to the full and better prepared for when the times comes.
Which side of the fence are you?
Which side of the fence are you?
In reply to vertical thrills:
Sounds like you're reading the words of the Dalai Lama.
It'd be naive for one not to be aware of the inherent risks of any of life's hurdles, be it small or large.
Therefore, I'm 1 x for the later argument.
Sounds like you're reading the words of the Dalai Lama.
It'd be naive for one not to be aware of the inherent risks of any of life's hurdles, be it small or large.
Therefore, I'm 1 x for the later argument.
In reply to vertical thrills:
After what I've been through I now follow the Tao of Jethro:
Live every day as if it will be your last, because one day, you will be right.
After what I've been through I now follow the Tao of Jethro:
Live every day as if it will be your last, because one day, you will be right.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I think i'm in the second camp, I try not to think about the details of what death might be like, but it's generaly lurking in the background of my conciousness.
I can switch between the two ways of thinking a little bit, i'm aware it's ever possible from random chance, if not from old age, but I try not to spend too much time thinking about it.
Tim
I think i'm in the second camp, I try not to think about the details of what death might be like, but it's generaly lurking in the background of my conciousness.
I can switch between the two ways of thinking a little bit, i'm aware it's ever possible from random chance, if not from old age, but I try not to spend too much time thinking about it.
Tim
In reply to vertical thrills: Strangely think about it less than I have in the past and I'm doing more soloing now than before.
In reply to vertical thrills: Me also for the second. Think about it quite a lot,but also,not when I'm climbing.Think it may have something to do with having more time behind me than in front of me...? Trying to make every second count.....
In reply to vertical thrills:
definitely the first camp.
definitely the first camp.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I work in end of life care so I deal with it's consequences most weeks, I tend to embrace life, every last sodding minute of it
I work in end of life care so I deal with it's consequences most weeks, I tend to embrace life, every last sodding minute of it
In reply to vertical thrills:
What a weird question!
Why should death be the only motivator to live life to the full?
You can put death to the back of your mind AND live life
What a weird question!
Why should death be the only motivator to live life to the full?
You can put death to the back of your mind AND live life
In reply to vertical thrills: as I have terminal cancer,I am definitely in camp 2. Its very liberating living everyday to the full and appreciating things cos you know the clock is ticking.I'm in a very happy place.
Valar morghulis.
Valar morghulis.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I find myself subject at different times to either camp and I'm usually glad of the change between the two each time.
I find myself subject at different times to either camp and I'm usually glad of the change between the two each time.
In reply to vertical thrills: Personally, I believe that there can be a happy medium.
I watched an interview with a very famous climber just yesterday and he stated that you can go and visit the edge, taunt death and tease him. But you can't live in that place. You need to come back to the normal world and live a less extreme life, something I think rings true. Although I don't know because i've never visited such an extreme edge that I feared for my life.
When i'm out in the hills in bad weather, or I end up in some shitty situation, I don't instantly think about death. There are more important things to think about before you come to that bridge.
I watched an interview with a very famous climber just yesterday and he stated that you can go and visit the edge, taunt death and tease him. But you can't live in that place. You need to come back to the normal world and live a less extreme life, something I think rings true. Although I don't know because i've never visited such an extreme edge that I feared for my life.
When i'm out in the hills in bad weather, or I end up in some shitty situation, I don't instantly think about death. There are more important things to think about before you come to that bridge.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I think it's an odd mix of the two when soloing. I'm very mindful of the risk of death that comes with soloing so I concentrate very very hard on things that help me to live.
I think it's an odd mix of the two when soloing. I'm very mindful of the risk of death that comes with soloing so I concentrate very very hard on things that help me to live.
A Camel was once heard to say...
ONE LIFE, LIVE IT...
and that kinda struck a chord with me, so I do! Camp #2
Jon
ONE LIFE, LIVE IT...
and that kinda struck a chord with me, so I do! Camp #2
Jon
In reply to vertical thrills: A mix of the two for me. i don't think of death and i do live life to the full. what will be will be. half of everything is luck and the other half is fate in my eyes...e
In reply to vertical thrills: I never used to consider it at all,too busy getting on with life. But the older I get the more I do think on it, and the more determined I am to get the best out of however much time I have left.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I hadn't until tonite! Thanks for that!
I hadn't until tonite! Thanks for that!
In reply to vertical thrills: The latter
In reply to vertical thrills:
"Live life like you're gonna die, because you're gonna ..."
-- William Shatner
"Live life like you're gonna die, because you're gonna ..."
-- William Shatner
In reply to vertical thrills:
Here's a thought-provoking article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-...
I've been in a few sticky situations over the years: a Tiger Shark narrowly missed eating me whilst surfing in Florida and I came very close to drowning white water rafting in Africa (the top 2). In neither case did I really think about death, instinctively I focused on choosing life and I fought for it.
I don't waste time and energy on negatives like death, I invest it in friends, love and fun. Death's inevitable, life isn't... Live life as truly as you can, as close to the edge as you dare. Build solid belays, off piste with probe/shovel/beacon/buddies, paddle your board with your legs up in the air, always be prepared - you need to fight daily to see as much life as you can.
Yeah, I'm in camp #2
Here's a thought-provoking article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-...
I've been in a few sticky situations over the years: a Tiger Shark narrowly missed eating me whilst surfing in Florida and I came very close to drowning white water rafting in Africa (the top 2). In neither case did I really think about death, instinctively I focused on choosing life and I fought for it.
I don't waste time and energy on negatives like death, I invest it in friends, love and fun. Death's inevitable, life isn't... Live life as truly as you can, as close to the edge as you dare. Build solid belays, off piste with probe/shovel/beacon/buddies, paddle your board with your legs up in the air, always be prepared - you need to fight daily to see as much life as you can.
Yeah, I'm in camp #2
In reply to vertical thrills:
I'm another person who finds death quite comforting - if anything ever stresses me, I just think how in just a few decades, not only will the problem be gone, but so will I, and anyone who even remembers me. It helps keep everything in perspective to me and frees me up to enjoy life and to not worry too much about decisions etc - after all, it will all end up the same way, no matter what I do inbetween, so I may as well do what feels right to me.
I'm another person who finds death quite comforting - if anything ever stresses me, I just think how in just a few decades, not only will the problem be gone, but so will I, and anyone who even remembers me. It helps keep everything in perspective to me and frees me up to enjoy life and to not worry too much about decisions etc - after all, it will all end up the same way, no matter what I do inbetween, so I may as well do what feels right to me.
In reply to vertical thrills:
Been doing a lot of thinking along these lines over the past year or so. When I'm climbing, biking, doing anything dangerous, it's not death that enters my mind, but pain. That's really what stops me doing anything too stupid as I never consciously put myself in a position where there is (in my opinion) a huge risk of death, but often I can see how some actions might bring about some severe pain and suffering, and this brings the severity of dangerous things I do down another level.
When I do think about death, it's usually at night when I can't get to sleep. I sometimes think 'I am alive, therefore one day I will die, and there isn't anything I can do to stop that', and the enormity of that realisation is sometimes overwhelming.
However, I also agree with tlm that the impermanence of everything can be comforting. You could be the most villified person in all of human existence, but one day the Sun will expand, consume the Earth and there won't be a trace of evidence you ever existed. You could look at this in a nihilistic sense, but I prefer to take from it that the small things really aren't worth sweating over.
Been doing a lot of thinking along these lines over the past year or so. When I'm climbing, biking, doing anything dangerous, it's not death that enters my mind, but pain. That's really what stops me doing anything too stupid as I never consciously put myself in a position where there is (in my opinion) a huge risk of death, but often I can see how some actions might bring about some severe pain and suffering, and this brings the severity of dangerous things I do down another level.
When I do think about death, it's usually at night when I can't get to sleep. I sometimes think 'I am alive, therefore one day I will die, and there isn't anything I can do to stop that', and the enormity of that realisation is sometimes overwhelming.
However, I also agree with tlm that the impermanence of everything can be comforting. You could be the most villified person in all of human existence, but one day the Sun will expand, consume the Earth and there won't be a trace of evidence you ever existed. You could look at this in a nihilistic sense, but I prefer to take from it that the small things really aren't worth sweating over.
In reply to vertical thrills:
Another vote for the latter.
But I don't carry death on my shoulders, it's more of a case that, if I feel I'm not doing things my heart wants to do or saying things I feel I need to say - in other words, if I'm not living life - then I may as well be dead!
Another vote for the latter.
But I don't carry death on my shoulders, it's more of a case that, if I feel I'm not doing things my heart wants to do or saying things I feel I need to say - in other words, if I'm not living life - then I may as well be dead!
In reply to Taurig:
I guess nihilism could be more about we choose to do with our time while we're here?
Having seen CCTV footage of a pint of beer apparently sliding off a tabile by itself in a pub in Gloustershire on the internet a while ago, and having had a strange happening myself, the only thing which really bothers me about death is what might come after it, or what might happen to me.
It only bothers me if I think about it though, otherwise i'm chilled.
> (In reply to vertical thrills)
> However, I also agree with tlm that the impermanence of everything can be comforting. You could be the most villified person in all of human existence, but one day the Sun will expand, consume the Earth and there won't be a trace of evidence you ever existed. You could look at this in a nihilistic sense, but I prefer to take from it that the small things really aren't worth sweating over.
I guess nihilism could be more about we choose to do with our time while we're here?
Having seen CCTV footage of a pint of beer apparently sliding off a tabile by itself in a pub in Gloustershire on the internet a while ago, and having had a strange happening myself, the only thing which really bothers me about death is what might come after it, or what might happen to me.
It only bothers me if I think about it though, otherwise i'm chilled.
In reply to vertical thrills: what's this death thing yer all talking about?
In reply to vertical thrills: I'm defiantly in camp two, an interesting question that's been on my mind a lot recently is do I want to die knowing that I've done something with my life and left a mark (for example do I want to work hard and leave something behind). Or do I want to enjoy every day to its fullest and not really work towards a particular goal, just live life as it is and not really care about the future or what happens after my death.
I still don't know the answer to this question but believe the answer will be a compromise between the two.
I still don't know the answer to this question but believe the answer will be a compromise between the two.
In reply to Timmd:
Yeah, that's what I was meaning. If the slate is going to be wiped cleaned in a completely ultimate sense, you could take that as a free pass to do whatever the hell you please, but I don't think that's the right thing to do.
> (In reply to Taurig)
> [...]
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> [...]
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> I guess nihilism could be more about we choose to do with our time while we're here?
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> [...]
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> I guess nihilism could be more about we choose to do with our time while we're here?
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Yeah, that's what I was meaning. If the slate is going to be wiped cleaned in a completely ultimate sense, you could take that as a free pass to do whatever the hell you please, but I don't think that's the right thing to do.
In reply to vertical thrills: More of the latter. No point fretting over it cos it'll happen one day tho I'm of the mind that it isnt the end. I use to think about it a lot but now I concentrate on trying to live a life with worth and purpose. I'm gratefull for each day that I wake up and have choices.
In reply to vertical thrills:
I would say definitely second camp. As someone (famous) once said the only certainties are death and taxes.
I would say definitely second camp. As someone (famous) once said the only certainties are death and taxes.
In reply to vertical thrills:
Im estimating 250+ replies on this by midnight. Good/interesting thread! I look at life as its best to avoid the "what if" and instead do everything with confidence and things where the odds are in your favour. If you happen to fall or whatever to your death, your not going to be sat there annoyed that you are dead if we're honest. So best just to crack on in life and chase what ever pleases you. AKA Climbing.
Im estimating 250+ replies on this by midnight. Good/interesting thread! I look at life as its best to avoid the "what if" and instead do everything with confidence and things where the odds are in your favour. If you happen to fall or whatever to your death, your not going to be sat there annoyed that you are dead if we're honest. So best just to crack on in life and chase what ever pleases you. AKA Climbing.
In reply to vertical thrills:
Due to mental health issues/illness (however you look at it) death sits on my shoulders every day. Very painful, with the irony that as much as it motivates me to truly live life, it is the very thing that constantly undermines those efforts. Very life depriving - grief/loss when looking back, in the present, and with fear of more of same. Last resort meds have taken away the severity of depression recently, but underlying causes persist, with the knowledge that meds could stop working tomorrow.
Insight, hard work, mental strength and patience have not been transformative, so its a double whammy to get results disproportional to effort. Trying has depleted me.
Thankfully, I appreciate small things,finding humour and good connections with people wherever i can. Sick of the whole damn thing dominating my existence though. Definitely stopped caring what anyone thinks about mental health issues etc - i have no lack of courage or strength.
Due to mental health issues/illness (however you look at it) death sits on my shoulders every day. Very painful, with the irony that as much as it motivates me to truly live life, it is the very thing that constantly undermines those efforts. Very life depriving - grief/loss when looking back, in the present, and with fear of more of same. Last resort meds have taken away the severity of depression recently, but underlying causes persist, with the knowledge that meds could stop working tomorrow.
Insight, hard work, mental strength and patience have not been transformative, so its a double whammy to get results disproportional to effort. Trying has depleted me.
Thankfully, I appreciate small things,finding humour and good connections with people wherever i can. Sick of the whole damn thing dominating my existence though. Definitely stopped caring what anyone thinks about mental health issues etc - i have no lack of courage or strength.
In reply to monkeys:
hats off to you mate, sounds like a battle for you. Makes me very appreciative with life considering what you say you have to cope with. You must be a very strong person. Fair play.
hats off to you mate, sounds like a battle for you. Makes me very appreciative with life considering what you say you have to cope with. You must be a very strong person. Fair play.
In reply to Stanners:
Thanks Stanners - I appreciate your response. We all have to face big things eventually, and there are many flavours of s**t out there !. The good things (friendship, humour, simple pleasures) are priceless !.
On a mission right now to encourage folk to confront rather than hide their stuff. Too many people caring too much what others think, feeling ashamed, etc, especially men. Shame is an obstacle to wellness.
Started a blog to remind myself of funny & wise stuff - it all helps! http://splittingmeditation.blogspot.co.uk/
Thanks Stanners - I appreciate your response. We all have to face big things eventually, and there are many flavours of s**t out there !. The good things (friendship, humour, simple pleasures) are priceless !.
On a mission right now to encourage folk to confront rather than hide their stuff. Too many people caring too much what others think, feeling ashamed, etc, especially men. Shame is an obstacle to wellness.
Started a blog to remind myself of funny & wise stuff - it all helps! http://splittingmeditation.blogspot.co.uk/
In reply to vertical thrills:
The best idea about death I've heard is someone who was asked what death was like, or feels like (can't remember who) and he replied "It's just the same as it was before you were born."
My memory being bad I can't remember that too well.
Don't know if this helps.
The best idea about death I've heard is someone who was asked what death was like, or feels like (can't remember who) and he replied "It's just the same as it was before you were born."
My memory being bad I can't remember that too well.
Don't know if this helps.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
I guess being dead will be similar to that, but not the process of being ill or dying. Ugghhh. I can see why it helps some folk to never let the mind wander there, or to believe in reincarnation
I guess being dead will be similar to that, but not the process of being ill or dying. Ugghhh. I can see why it helps some folk to never let the mind wander there, or to believe in reincarnation
In reply to vertical thrills:
I'm always thinking about death only a daily basis at least a couple times a day (in a healthy way). I feel it keeps me attached to reality (or at least my own reality). I've always been like that, even when very young, not quite sure why.
As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse". Too true! At least I think so...
I'm always thinking about death only a daily basis at least a couple times a day (in a healthy way). I feel it keeps me attached to reality (or at least my own reality). I've always been like that, even when very young, not quite sure why.
As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse". Too true! At least I think so...
In reply to vertical thrills:
As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
In reply to adam11:
Walt Disney
> (In reply to vertical thrills)
>
> As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
>
> VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
>
> As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
>
> VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
Walt Disney
In reply to adam11:
Sounds very tibetan to me.
Likewise the Tibetans say that there is one great certainty in life and one great uncertainty.
The great certainty is that you're going to die
The great uncertainty is that you dont know when!
The secret to life is to hold both these truths in your mind and live fully in the present moment.
Not easy...
Sounds very tibetan to me.
Likewise the Tibetans say that there is one great certainty in life and one great uncertainty.
The great certainty is that you're going to die
The great uncertainty is that you dont know when!
The secret to life is to hold both these truths in your mind and live fully in the present moment.
Not easy...
In reply to adam11:
I believe it's an old Japanese saying (in one form or another). But I first heard it from the Giri Giri Boys in Alpinist magazine. Indeed it is very thought provoking. Happy to have shared it
I believe it's an old Japanese saying (in one form or another). But I first heard it from the Giri Giri Boys in Alpinist magazine. Indeed it is very thought provoking. Happy to have shared it
In reply to mlt:
What thoughts does it provoke in your mind?
It made me wonder if the word "envision" existed but nothing more
What thoughts does it provoke in your mind?
It made me wonder if the word "envision" existed but nothing more
As I currently have a job that involves dropping over the edge of tall buildings several times a day thinking about death, and not wanting it in a sudden splatty kind of way, is what makes me check the roof anchors and krabs one last time.....
In reply to cezza: Stunt man? I hope...
In reply to vertical thrills:
I'm with Dave Hooper, or not, have been close several times.
Live every day like it's your last, but remember it may not be.
I'm with Dave Hooper, or not, have been close several times.
Live every day like it's your last, but remember it may not be.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Good luck to you and David Hooper. No words really.
> (In reply to vertical thrills)
>
> I'm with Dave Hooper, or not, have been close several times.
>
> Live every day like it's your last, but remember it may not be.
>
> I'm with Dave Hooper, or not, have been close several times.
>
> Live every day like it's your last, but remember it may not be.
Good luck to you and David Hooper. No words really.
In reply to vertical thrills:
In the words of the Flaming Lips:
Do You Realise
That everyone you know someday will die?
And instead of saying all of your goodbyes -
let them know You realise that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realise the sun don't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round
Sums it up for me.
In the words of the Flaming Lips:
Do You Realise
That everyone you know someday will die?
And instead of saying all of your goodbyes -
let them know You realise that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realise the sun don't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round
Sums it up for me.
In reply to adam11:
I find ''We're dead only once and for such a long time'' thought provoking, I can't remember whom I read said it though.
> (In reply to vertical thrills)
>
> As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
>
> VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
>
> As someone once said "to live an enriched life free of vanity, one must first be able to envision their own corpse".
>
> VERY thought provoking quote that one. Do you recall who said it?
I find ''We're dead only once and for such a long time'' thought provoking, I can't remember whom I read said it though.
In reply to monkeys:
good idea with the blog, an entertaining and thought provoking read! All the best mate.
good idea with the blog, an entertaining and thought provoking read! All the best mate.
In reply to vertical thrills: Wasn't it Woody Allen who said something like," I'm not afraid to die, but I don't want to be around when it happens". I think as one gets older and has dependents the thought of death is more stressful, but once dependents are no longer dependent you realise that your life is not that precious at all. Also everyone who has ever lived in the past has died so you are in good company.
In reply to The Big Man:
"who is it dear"?
"Its a Mr Death darling, he says he's come about the reaping"
Gotta love Monty Python!
"who is it dear"?
"Its a Mr Death darling, he says he's come about the reaping"
Gotta love Monty Python!
In reply to butteredfrog:
youtube.com/watch?v=YoBTsMJ4jNk& :O)
> (In reply to The Big Man)
>
> "who is it dear"?
>
> "Its a Mr Death darling, he says he's come about the reaping"
>
> Gotta love Monty Python!
>
> "who is it dear"?
>
> "Its a Mr Death darling, he says he's come about the reaping"
>
> Gotta love Monty Python!
youtube.com/watch?v=YoBTsMJ4jNk& :O)
In reply to vertical thrills:
It's a bit difficult not to think about death, when your job is to care for the dying. Rather than on my shoulder, I keep it at arms length where I can keep my eye on it.
It's a bit difficult not to think about death, when your job is to care for the dying. Rather than on my shoulder, I keep it at arms length where I can keep my eye on it.
In reply to Stewy12: can you help me find a thread on a CLIMBING website that doesn't concentrate on Tax or Death????
In reply to vertical thrills: Definitely the second whilst fervently trying to believe in the first
In reply to vertical thrills: second one,especially when visiting relatives
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